Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I've been using Ariens snowblowers all my life, so I'm pretty disappointed with my 2004 8526LE so far.  When I received it, one of the shoe bolts was stripped out and the shoe would not stay adjusted.  Ariens sent me a couple new ones, which I was happy with.  However during the big blizzard, I noticed my wheel drive was very sluggish, I had to push the thing to get it going forward, and as soon as it hit any resistance, it would stop.  I had fully tensioned and adjusted everything after the initial 15 mins but figured maybe there had been some stretching.  Brought it in to inspect, the pivot point where the drive cable connects (sticks just out of the body) was not pivoting, it was just hanging around in there loose.  Wasn't like that when I got it for sure.  Took it all apart, found the bolt with no cotter pin sitting in the bottom.  So it apparently had been slid through and no pin ever put on (the bolt was stuck in some ice on the bottom, with no pin in sight).  Of course this caused a lot of wear to the friction disc and there is rubber all over the friction plate now.  So I also needed to change the oil last night, and while it was draining I decided to inspect other parts again with a fine tooth comb.  I am missing a bolt that holds the dipstick tube support and the front of the carb cover in place, my starter has a horrible looking electrical connection that I had to re-do (it stopped working during the storm, I thought it was Ice, guess not) and in general all kinds of stuff was loose.

I bought it in the crate as it came from Ariens, unopened, so this was not a dealer assembly issue.  Pretty disapointed for $1000.....  I mean I looked it over when I got it and did the adjustments, but I had no idea I had to rip the entire thing apart and inspect the inside too.  Sheesh.

Now that its all fixed it works great, would drive itself through a brick wall, its not the quality of the product itself that bothers me, more the quality control of the assembly.  So at the beginning of next year looks like I'll need a new friction disc already and spend some time removing the rubber off the plate.  Oh well.

-Dave

Dave-
  Sorry to hear that about your machine.  Maybe the cause of the friction disc problem is actually that the machine needs the R3 drive upgrade and doesn't have it.  My 824 didn't have it and I have shards of rubber all over the place(a rag dampened with gas is a wonderful way to clean the disc and drive shafts)  hope it works good for ya now that the gremlins are worked out

All or most problems would have been caught by the dealer who did the setup and run in, but you did the setup.

I had some initial problems with my Ariens which I think would have been found by the dealer if he had done the initial run-in. I knew nothing about the run-in until I got the machine delivered and read the manual. My dealer doesn't do it and told me to use the machine and bring it in if it needed adjustment. I did it myself and when removing the bottom cover to check the auger brake found that the hard plastic idler pulley for the chain had come off its shaft. Amazingly the two washers and the clip were still there. There were some minor chain marks on the pulley so it had been assembled, but I suspect the clip had been put on hurriedly and hadn't seated properly in the groove. The blower is running and performing great and I have no regrets about purchasing the Ariens. It is disconcerting though to hear of machines where the basics were not taken care of at the factory.

SNOWREMOVER WROTE..........

"Ariens, from the posts on this board, seem to have more problems than other blowers."

FROM THE 7 YEARS I HAVE BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH THIS FORUM, I FIND THAT TO BE A FALSE STATEMENT.

I am wondering if the majority of members of the forum buy higher end machines so that complaints/problems coming up in the forum may be skewed. Just a thought.

terrapin24h wrote:

Nah the cotter pin having fallen out meant the disc wasn't pressing hard enough, thus lots of slipping.  This unit was manufactured 9/2004 so hopefully it is the new version of the drive (but I could be wrong, any good way to tell?)

Thanks

-Dave

uconncuzinvinny wrote:

I disagree completely.  The missing cotter pin was inside the unit, the bottom cover would have had to be removed and the dealer would have had to inspect very closely to see it wasn't there.  The bolt was in place when I got it (as I adjusted the cable tension and the pivot was working fine).  It vibrated out during my first use I'm assuming.  If Ariens didn't notice it while building, I highly doubt a dealer would have found it.  The front bolt on the oil stick possibly, but if I missed it during my initial inspection, they certainly could have too.  It may have even been in there and just loose.  The shoes come set all the way up and the stripped bolt was holding it enough to look like it was fine, and I am not convinced a dealer would have any reason to adjust the shoes down since the scraper blade was the proper distance from the ground for a flat surface, but I have an uneneven drive and noticed it when I went to raise it some.  The electrical connection was covered, but knowing the starter was being flakey I pulled back the sheath to expose the problem, again, I doubt a dealer would have bothered if it started when they got it (which it did for me).

My experience in the past has been if anything a dealer no matter how good they are would have missed all this stuff, and potentially missed something while assembling it since at the beginning of the season they are trying to assemble as quickly as possible.  In my case, 15 minutes of time to know its done right is worth saving the money.  Like I said, none of the issues I had were to do with dealer assembly, they were all from factory assembly.  I did the full break-in and careful adjustment, something I'm sure every dealer rushes through to get stuff out the door, so I stand by my decision to do it myself, and I would do it again (and I have done it 4 times in the past).

-Dave

Jonathan wrote:

I consider my $1000 one to be "higher end" :-).  Just because its the middle-of-the-road consumer line, doesn't mean it should have quality issues.  I'm not disagreeing with your statement, just saying I hope its not the case!  Plus every other Ariens blower (including lower end ones) I've ever owned/used up until about 4 years ago had none of these issues, it seems to be a more recent thing.

-Dave

"Ariens may be very reliable if properly assembled, checked over and tested.  But on the whole, their factories are putting out more problems "out of the box" then others."

This statement potentially holds water. But using this forum as a judge for that statement of Ariens as a whole, when their are more Ariens owned here than any other brand is taking a giant leap into the realm of wonderland. I will agree that from very recent posts, it appears that theirquality check before leaving the factory has been spotty, with appears and spotty being the operative words. We don't always know all there is to know.

A dealer should assemble all machines and check them for proper operation to begin with. If someone is buying without that in mind, then they should revisit how they buy. I can buy all kinds of merchandise direct from manufacturers or distributors thay requires me putting it together. If it doesn't work and operate properly afterward it doesn't mean that equipment is no good and doesn't necessarily mean that it shouldn't be sold that way. It just means buyer beware.

I'm not talking about specific cases but rather making an advisory statement for the readers and future buyers, it's good practice.

  Marshall,

    Your statement is true for last 7 years, but wrong for the last 2 years!!

As I recall last year it was blow by, this year belts, springs, not adjusted correctly, poor dealer setup and so on and on.

I think since Ariens began  selling to the Box stores , demand has jumped and unit production has been greatly increased !

But as a result, quality control has suffered!!  They still build a good blower, but with first operation problems.

IMHO

                                               Fred   

That's why I worded it as I did and agreed to what I did Fred.  

Marshall wrote:

I would agree if my handle bars fell off, or my chute wasn't working properly.  However this part is internal and not assembled by the dealer, and since upon delivery it was functioning properly (bolt holding in there on a wing and a prayer) it would make no difference.  How many dealers remove the bottom cover to check the brake clearance Vs. checking from the top (where it can be clearly seen), and even if they did, would they have seen the missing cotter pin?

If you went to buy a car from a dealer and they mentioned a wheel had fallen off during shipment because someone forgot the lug nuts, would you feel any better about the fact that the dealer had fixed it rather than you?  It was still a flaw in the manufacture of the product, and is indicative that there could be more.....

-Dave

Forum Members have been complaining about Ariens quality control since I became a member in the vicinity of 2 yrs ago.

Many of the complaints were about rushed engineering (consumer grade drive systems, chute design, etc) 

That's why I bought a Simplicity.

When you get a good Ariens they're great. If you don't you get a big headache. Ariens will fix it...but the snow does'nt stop falling while the new snowblower is in the shop.

If you must have an Ariens make sure it's a Pro model.....many less complaints from what I read here.........

Like everyone is saying...Perhaps Ariens production quality has suffered due to the increased volume from Home Depot sales.

                                                                                                         Dan

drinkingbird wrote: I have no argument with you, as I said, I wasn't speaking to any particular case but rather in general. In your case it clear.

Let me add here that I am not defending Ariens. Well maybe I am a little bit.

What I don't like to see is any company that makes a good performing and quality product get hosed as a whole. Critisized properly, yes but, hosed as whole, no. When readers read things that basically leaves an impression that the product sucks, I'll try to step in if I think it should be narrowed down as to what the problem is (Drinkingbird, not saying you said that).

I have noticed the posts on Ariens quality control lately, it seems they are coming more often which is not good. Fact is, I had been considering making a thread about it from someone who doesn't even do snowblowers. But, I thought about it and decided that many of the post were related to box store screw ups and improper set-up thus giving me pause to post negatively. I know we hear about the problems more than we do the successes and this is a heavy forum for Ariens owners so, the rusults may be skewed somewhat?

Shoot, if I moved north tomorrow and were put in the position of having to buy a snowblower, with what little I know about them, I would go Sim's/Snapper and probably Toro second. But that's just an opinion from a guy in Oklahoma where there's more dust than snow. Might change once I were to get there?

Marshall, If you move north consider getting a Craftsman. Less complaints. J

  Marshall,

              Craftsman, Murray, or an MTD blowers.

They have fewer problems!!!

                                                      Fred  

Marshall wrote:

Not my intent.  I feel Ariens needs to quickly focus on their QC and stop the rush before what is still a great brand name becomes a no-name.  If I had a choice right now, I'd buy another Ariens.  I'd just be sure to take it apart fully this time and do a better inspection (I didn't think I would have to!)  The quality of the machine itself is excellent, and with the exception of Honda or Simplicity (out of my price range for the features I want) is the only one that is still 95% metal.  I just can't see myself having a plastic chute with some of the stuff I have to throw around here.  The quality of the build however, leaves something to be desired.  When all is said and done, Ariens mailed me new shoe bolts quickly with a very knowlegeable email response beforehand, a new friction disc will cost me $7ish, and I have cotter pins, so its not a big deal, I just would have rather taken it fully apart to check it out in warm weather, not in my 10 degree garage.

-Dave

Marshall wrote:

""When readers read things that basically leaves an impression that the product sucks, I'll try to step in if I think it should be narrowed down as to what the problem is (Drinkingbird, not saying you said that). ""

Guess you missed that part drinkingbird so I'll show you again.

Dkbrd, did you E-mail Ariens you problems and complaints to make them aware?  I think that would be helpful and I would be curious as to their response.  If they are not aware of the problem they cannot do anything about it. 

C 

Marshall wrote:

Sorry I'm not trying to sound like I keep disagreeing with you just don't want to be mis-interpereted by other readers, I fully understand your points and where you're coming from, not saying you're wrong or anything, don't worry.

Go Aggies   (ducks)

ChrisS wrote:

Oh heck yeah.  I spoke with the same guy who was very helpful with the stripped shoe bolt when I first got it.  He suggested that the friction disc, while getting some extra wear, was probably fine and explained how to clean off the friction plate well.  I mean, what more can he say really, he can't change history or anything.

LOL,

dirtybird, the point was not what I was saying being right or wrong, the point was that I was not steering any of it toward you.

Good, hopefully they keep records so that they can correct things like this in the future.

C

all right guys TIME OUT...

now you promised you would behave and im gonna hold you to it.

im gonna have to stick up for the ariens (we sell them now ...sort of) a dealer sold machine will not have near the troubles that a box store or in the crate machine will.

not to say that the average homeowner couldnt properly assemble one but they are somewhat fussy machine.

remember a quarter turn on the friction disc adjustment will make a big difference.and the impeller belt adjustment is the same.

im so used to doing the pre delivery inspection on OPE that i just take it for granted.

i have found that the better quality of machine will take a few minutes more to set up but it will last years longer.

no desrespect intended but im better trained and better backed than the average homeowner.

a simple for instance is the fact that we sold 2 of the 1336 DLE ariens .i did the 15 minute belt adjustment on the impeller and went from about a 45 foot throw to at least 60 feet. you should have seen people driving by ,they nearly ran off the road watching.

im a firm beleiver in a proper set up and most homeowners wont or cant do it.

every piece of equipment we sell is set up and we also offer a free breakin adjustment at anytime the owner feels his machine is broken in.

and i will say that the snappers ...now simplicity units are somewhat  less fussy but still need a few touches here and there.

later chris 

ChrisS wrote:

Hi Chris,

Remember about 2 years ago when I had that quality control problem and dealer issue on my Ariens 724 back on the other board? I remember, Dan Ariens (I believe that was his first name) actually read my grievance and responded to it publicly.  It was also the same time the friction disc (I don't remember what model it was) was causing customers some friction.  Is he still a member around here and does he pop in now and then to see how his fans are doing with their snowblowers?  I must admit, it was pretty cool thing to happen.  I would have liked it better if he had called that dealer and had given them a good reaming. 

Richie wrote:
Richie,

As you know or, may not, Dan's first lieutenant in engineering does frequent the site and I imagine he has Dan's ear. They have always been responsive  when a problem arises. Unfortunately, quality control isn't a simple friction disc or something you can put your hands on and design better. It usually takes changes in quite a few thing internally and of course, time.

I would really like to hear from everyone that had a problem that was not related to something a dealer should have handled during prep.

Hi everyone:

I am going to add some fuel to the fire....I have had some issues with the design and manufacturing quality with my Ariens product. 

I purchased my 1028 deluxe for $974 on 2/1/03.  Since this time I have had to correct manufacturing tolerance errors on two occasions and two design flaws. 

As some of you may recall, I posted problems with the chain tensioner and the distortion that it created on the side case.  I am currently having parts machined to correct this and will post my solution here when complete, as I am sure current owners might want to make this modification after the warranty runs out.

Other problem have been with the clutch bracket rubbing up on the housing, (Wrong spacer size) and having to monkey with the drive belt idler to get it centered on the belt.  Each of these problems are non adjustable.

I had a very eloquent description to this but appearantly type too slow and timed out....

bbwb

Hi BB,

You're actually having components fabricated rather than have Ariens send you a replacement part, I would have loved to see photos of all this before and after you complete the repair.  That's great you have access to a machine shop that is willing to do that kind of work.  Maybe you can post photos when you're done.  Good luck with that! 

Hi Richie:

When I contacted Ariens about this, they were very responsive and sympathetic to my problem, but, because I was the only one to complain about this problem, I am left all alone in the life boat as it were.  I so far have been using "off the shelf" parts not only from Ariens, but also from Grainger.  The machine shop is increasing the round portion of Ariens hex shaft up from the 7/16" diameter up to 5/8".  From there, I will cut off the excess shaft ends and mount this into a rigid flange bearing.  This will spread the forces out over a larger area than the original 3/8" diameter bolt can provide.  Yes, if this works, I will post my solution for others.

Maybe PK will take this back with him and I can get a large royalty check so I could retire????

bbwb

I'm with snowremover.  There is no doubt in my mind that initial quality problems have been reported here (and WTB) far more often on Ariens blowers than any other brand.  Maybe this is due to some kind of biased sampling but can't figure why this should be the case. When I was shopping I was put off Ariens by quality issues obvious on the showroom floor.  Too bad because otherwise they're generally a stoutly made blower.

 I also feel "improper dealer set-up" is a lame excuse for any manufacturer - and it's not just a problem at box stores. These days people expect things to work perfectly right out of the box - except something simple like unfolding handlebars.   It costs far more for a dealer (independent or box) to set up, adjust, and inspect a machine than it would at the factory, not to mention the cost of unhappy customers at the first big snow.   Hopefully Ariens is listening.   -Bob

--SnowRemover "Who Never Owned, And Never Will Own, A Japanese Car" Snowremover, Does this also mean that you won't buy a car from an American company that imports and sells cars from Japan but under their American name?

SnowRemover wrote:
It's a new millenium and a global economy.

You like the big 3 even though they ship jobs to cheaper labor markets?? And wonder why their build qualities can't stack up to their Japanese counterparts?? The Japanese at least came into our country, put our people to work and build a quality, competitive product and continue to reinvest in their North American positions.

I know you want a hatchback and the Accord isn't it.  But as an example, what exactly is wrong with it?  97% domestic content not high enough for you?  I'm sure a japanese built Accord probably isn't 97% Japanese components! It is built in my backyard, by my neighbors, using parts built by a ton of my other neighbors by a company that continues to reinvest in itself in this country. They do it without union labor by being fair with its employees. The argument that all the money goes home to Japan doesn't really cut it.  You want a slice of the action?, No problem buy Honda stock on the NYSE, they are happy to share in the wealth.

I'm using Honda only as an example, Toyota and Nissan et.al. also have similar positions.

Do I own Hondas?  Yes, an Accord and a Pilot. Do I work there or own stock ?  NO   but I do believe in buying a quality product that supports my community and my neighbors.  Will I shop Wal Mart?  Hell NO!  That is a company that is slowly taking America hostage and I won't support that kind of corporate behavior.

An example on the other side could be the Saturn Vue  (Which I shopped before buying my Pilot)

So much for the image of a true American car.   A 2004 V-6 Vues has a higher domestic content than a 2003. Why?  They stopped using the GM made V-6(imported from one of their European compadres) and started using a Honda (Made in Ana Ohio) V-6.  GM uses many different engines and trannys from their European  subsidiaries Saab, Vauxhall, Opel and others. But the perception is all Mom, hot dogs and apple pie.

GM, Ford and Daimler are global companies too.....they bring parts in here to build their cars as much as the next guy (or more so in some cases).

Maybe it's time to ease up on the nameplates and start looking at who is building a quality vehicle, priced competitively and being a good neighbor.

Snowremover,

I think you’ve allowed yourself to see the numbers the way you want to……..

If you look at my post, I was talking automotive families……ie Honda(Honda and Acura), GM (Chevy, Cady et al) etc. I also wasn’t necessarily considering Suzuki, Scion, Izuzu and the rest. I'm talking about the companies that took a firm stance to not rape our market, but to become part of it.   Basically I was looking at the Big threes, GM Ford and Daimler and Honda Toyota and Nissan.( And my apologies to those here who work for or have ties to the American big three, but Detroit dropped the ball long ago and now everyone must stay competitive to stay in the game.  It is a global market now out of necessity to survive.)

 

These are the bottom line kind of figures that tell  the tale, courtesy of JD Power

 

 

 You said:

"Your numbers are wrong.  The Accord is closer to 65% domestic content.
Highest in U.S. content are Honda's Accord at a claimed 85 percent and Toyota's Camry at 70-75 percent, but McAlinden points out that the first 25 percent of these figures is sales and marketing expense. That makes the Accord closer to 65 percent U.S. parts and labor and the Camry 50-55 percent."

 The first 25% being sales and Mkting expense would apply to ALL manufacturers doing business in the US market  so even the US big three would have this same advantage. Yet even with a 25% boost right out of the shoot their domestic contents are embarrassing for an American Mfr. Eliminating that 25% would put that Pontiac Vibe  you were looking at down to a measley 35%!

I guess that is why Honda has the $#%* to put this on their website

"Currently about 85 percent of all Accords sold in the U.S. are produced in North America and those models have a domestic content level of 97 percent."

 You said:

"All car companies are global, I concur.  But I'm not going to buy a Honda/Toyota and send the profits to Japan.  Because the R&D money, which isn't a % of the cars domestic content, goes to non-American engineers,/scientists/designers."

 
I guess I tell that to my neighbor tonight when he gets home from work.  He and the 1200 other Americans working at Honda R&D Marysville Ohio must be living a lie.  Yet they also seem to come up with the house payment every month.

Hmmmmm....

What about Ariens and other brand snowblowers ?


Dave...

I thought this was a snowblower thread ? but seeing that it is now about auto's i might as well state my opinion. As far as i am concerned Ariens is the Harley Davidson of snowblowers. Maybe you have to adjust a little out of the box but when you use it you feel the power. I wish the world was perfect and you could get everything american but this is not the case. We live in a money age where everything is about the dollar. So if the big guy wants more $$$$ then he will cut your throat american or not and use who ever and whatever to make his $$$$$. so  just live life and enjoy while you can. If everyone tried to buy just american the world would fall apart.

Snowremover:

You wrote: "Even allowing you to talk families, you're own numbers show GM ahead of the Industry Average and Nissan.  Its funny how you try to eliminate Scion, when they are a fully owned subsidiary of Toyota."

Yes they are but their sales numbers a miniscule in the great Toyota scheme.  Do we get to count GM's stake in Subaru, Izuzu and Daewoo if we're playing this game?? or Daimler's alliance with Mitsubishi? 

You wrote: "And how is that different than the claim I made?  Think about the above statement carefully, only 85% of the Accords sold have 97% American content.  Did you also know that an engine assembled in America of all Japanese parts is considered an American engine?  None of the Accords have any American parts in their engines, but the engines are classified as American because they are assembled here (as per first link I gave)."

If you would have read the linked article you would see this is data from 2002, I'm not going to waste my time dredging up last second data for the sake of this argument, but I do know that the number of imported Accords decrease every year.  Did you know that Honda at least do use US parts in their engines??  Apparantly not.  Some are built in the Ana plant and many provided by US suppliers.  NOT just assembled here. I can't speak for the other Japanese makes, but that wasn't my argument.

Emmo wrote: You wrote: "What are you talking about?"

I was replying to your statement about all the R&D money was spent on Japanese engineers, designers etc.   This is simply not the case!

Snowremover- I heard Ariens is coming out with a snow car next year!   - Kris

Could the fact be that there are more cars, therefore more problems?

Pick what you like and buy it.

I can't see myself being anal enough to go around reading window stickers, magazines and everything else trying to figure out what the US percentages are. Hell, odds are they're not right anyway.

Man, I sure like that Lexus SUV but it has a Jap drive shaft and more foreign parts, guess I'll buy the Ford that has a Mazda transfer case and transmission. Oh wait, the Chevy has 3.2% less foreign parts, so it says, I better jump on that one.

Snow,

I like to post my thoughts like this in a public manner.

I have been following you quite closely.  You have officially passed into the world of non-productive.  Agree or not I don't care.  This is your one and only warning. 

C 

ChrisS wrote:

AGREED!

Nothing productive has come from this individual.

hickster

It does seem that he's trying to say things he isn't.  Playing with our minds?  Maybe I'm wrong. 

@snow...
That you Joe? 

anybody else see it????  I'm waiting for the honda and ford bashing to start....

No one can say you were not warned.....

C

Waste of bandwidth..

MountainMan wrote:
The light reveals everything

Chris,  I agree this thread has gotten unproductive and far off the original poster's topic but I don't see why snowremover is being singled out.  Based on the last few posts it seems me others have been verging on personal attacks rather than debating his arguments.   Anyway if unproductive is a criteria then that would eliminate 90% of the posts here.  I think debates like this actually add a lot of interest.   

I hope we're not at  the point where anyone who dares criticize Ariens will be made unwelcome and chased off the board.    -Bob

Sorry Bob,

This is how it is gonna be right now.....

C

I hope we're not at  the point where anyone who dares criticize Ariens will be made unwelcome and chased off the board.    -Bob

Bob.........that's not the intent and not what is happening, I know you know that.

Marshall,   I don't know what's happening.    -Bob

Bob, PM sent.

This topic too!

Damn, ChrisS - is there any place you didn't delete all my posts?

I would also like to know if this is over, even if you don't ever answer "Why you did this", please tell me if you are still going through topics deleting my posts.

Sincerely,
SnowRemover

Snowremover, lay off Chris and quite asking on every post why your posts are removed. If you don't know why telling you again will make no difference.

This is all I will say publicly on this issue. I will either PM with you or Ban you or both, depending on what you do. You will be the one making the choice.

Marshall wrote:
Why is it me that has to lay off Chris?  I'm the one having my posts removed and I DON'T KNOW WHY!

No one has PM'd me a reason.  No one has explained.

I have never used a slanderous word, never personally attacked ANYONE.  I've just stated my opinions and backed them up with facts as much as possible.  Yet my posts throughout this site are being deleted.

Now you say if I ask why, I will be banned and it will by my fault. 

--SnowRemover

This is like trying to read a book w/ several pages missing from it.  Why not just leave it as is, or just delete teh whole damn thing??

How annoying!!!

Yea I know, I was hoping it would drift away to back pages and not pop up again.

Sorry, I just read it for the 1st time.  I will leave it slip on down the pike w/out further question.

Heck, I didn't word that real well, thanks Bill, no sweat.