Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

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Hello JackD:

Can I conclude, since you have changed directions in your posts, that your concerns are satisfied at least for now with the dyson printed claims, their revisions, and the events and dialogue surrounding them?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Not really, I am still researching.  A little confused by the posts here.  Seems to be both some strong support for Dyson here as well as what seems to be some vitriol towards the company and/or product.  I guess I am just first trying to figure out what the animosity is about from both sides as well as trying to figure out some facts as I don't think I could figure them out from this site alone as it appears to be a bit of emotional "gotcha" rather than Pro and Con discussion.  I suspect there is not really a "consumer" debate going on here but a few "insiders" looking to influence the market in thier direction.  I do appreciate the answer and the point in the right direction but in reading the posts I think I might be better off looking for the answer myself.

I guess my follow-up was really just trying to figure out what the Non-Dyson side's "angle" was as the other side seems obvious.  So I really didn't "change direction" in my posts I am still fact finding, perhaps guards may come up quickly here.

Perhaps others will respond and provide some more answers and insight for you. 

Most of the posters here, unlike you, are veteran posters of many years on several different vacuum Forums.  Going back to even before dyson launched in the USA in 2002. 

Not having the benefit of the past history and personalities, it's understandable to look at this site now and have the view you have.  Particularly about the persons who critique dyson.  It's like reading the last page of a novel, learning about the death of the protagonist, and asking why.  Well to get the answer, you need to read the beginning, middle and end of the novel.  Then, it all comes together.  Unfortunately they don't make/sell Cliff Notes for Vacuum Forums with the main characters, themes and plot neatly summarized!

I was in the vacuum business from 1949 to 1992.  I owned and operated a vacuum store in Bloomfield NJ.  I sold the business to another vacuum dealer who still has the store.  He and I still talk and keep up to date on the bsuiness.  The store is an historic landmark on the Newark, Bloomfield, Belleville border lines.  After 1992, I was a self-employed consultant to the industry working for both private and government entities on all matters related to vacuums.  In August 2006,  I retired and moved to Las Vegas.  I receive at least one offer of part/full-time employment every week related to the vacuum business.   So far, I've turned them all down.  Some reluctantly.  Not for love of money, but love of the business. 

I trust your research and fact finding will be successful.  If I can assist, I certainly will try.  If you prefer private emails, that's fine too.  Just send me a message offline and I will answer in kind.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote: HI Carmine,

Is this a different lawsuit from the first two?  As I understand the first Oreck / Dyson suit was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum of money.  Part of the settlement however was that Dyson could continue saying "no loss of suction" about any of it's current product sold in the USA.  When the DC18 came out, Oreck sued again over the same thing but the case was dismissed because the earlier case had been settled and was not subject to any appeal.

Dusty

CarmineD wrote:
I would encourage you to take a look at a DC07 somewhere.  Any that I have in stock have a removable air joint and even the Dyson websites (US and Canada) clearly show a thumb tab to remove the elbow (choose the 360 view)

Dusty

dusty wrote:

Hello Dusty:

You're in Canada, and it was late to the dyson sales game.  Just the last 3 years if I understood correctly.  I suspect you're getting old dyson DC07 stock before the u bend airway was made permanent.  And the dyson pics are old.  All the DC07-s now in the USA [that I have seen in stores since the launch of 2002] have a permanent u bend airway joint.  The removable one has been obsolete here in the USA.  I speak with experience in several states on both coasts.

It's an important piece.  Without it, the vacuum has no suction in the tool mode. [FYI: The DC07 pink I bought in August 2006 from TARGET had a very permanent u bend airway joint with no thumb tab to be seen and still does]. 

Carmine D.

dusty wrote:

Dusty:

It was not a suit with the NAD.  It was hearing with an industry sanctioned authority [NAD] whose ruling is binding on all the parties who agree to the hearing. 

I took the liberty to highlight the relevant words in your post.  Perhaps that is the reason ORECK subsequently filed a lawsuit against dyson with the DC18 and by-passed the NAD?  As I presume ORECK will do with all new dysons in the USA if the claim is used.  I believe ORECK is being encouraged by several vacuum makers [who are watching the proceedings closely] to pursue legal action against dyson.  IMHO. 

Of particular note for future:  Observe whether big box retailers use the dyson claim "Never loses suction" when advertising dysons for sale by their stores.  Most if not all avoid it.  Why?  I don't know if there is some legal reason, concern or suspicions on their part.  Or, and more importantly, they know it is false because they have real world experiences with new dysons under warranty that clog and lose suction returned by unhappy buyers.  If the latter, it will support ORECK's suit IMHO.  Is there a correlation with these dyson returns and the high number of dyson refurbs for sale?  A question that ORECK will raise and answer its court proceedings against dyson.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
3ish years is correct, give or take a month or two.  If I'm getting old stock, then everybody is getting old stock.  I have never seen a DC07 or DC14 with a permanent UBend (a trip to Future Shop this evening affirms this) .   Perhaps it's just something at has happened on American models?  The Dyson US website also shows how to remove a blockage from the UBend in all DC07's, the pink included. Kind of odd they haven't updated since they launched, don't you think?

I agree it's an important piece.  We make a point of showing our customers how to maintain the product they are buying and most would agree it's a good idea to have access points if a blockage were to occur. Case in point, we removed a pencil crayon from said area after a customers kid was a little over zealous cleaning their room.  The customer btw, had previously bought from Linens and Things...before you go accusing me of not really explaining my product very well :-)

Dusty

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine, let me ask you a somewhat philosophical question:  Is the U-bend permanent simply because you do not know how to take it off?  Or, rather, because you do not know how to remove the U-bend, does that mean everyone should believe it is permanent? 

Motor, Dusty:

Well let me say this:  The dyson u bend airway joint does NOT come off and stay off as easily as it did with the original launch of the DC07-s.  At that time, it had a prominent thumb tab that users stepped on to release the handle.  Only to learn that the u bend air way joint fell off and no one could replace it.  The dyson Users Guide didn't address it's removal and replacement at the time  Tool suction was zip.  Frequently, the piece was found sitting along side the display models and/or still in the box in the warehouse.

My DC07 pink, now retired from service for inability to perform as well as less expensive uprights, has no thumb tab to remove the joint, has not fallen off ,and has not been taken off since August 2006.  That makes it permanent to me.  Certainly makes it retooled from the original form and design.  How's that for dyson accuracy and correctness?

Carmine D.