Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

UPDATE FROM BEN07 FEB. 3RD

PLS NOTE: THIS PROBLEM WAS ANSWERED BY ARIENS.

POST # 19 explains the upgrade.  

 IT IS A RESOLVED  ISSUE 

I purchased an 8524LE for a price I had to jump at due to an end of season left over last year.   Shortly after, I started hearing horror stories on the gear drives for this particular unit.  I am sure a lot of you are familiar to it.  Ariens advertised  three categories of two stage SB.  Compact, Deluxe, Professional.  What they don't tell you is that this model has the drive unit of the compacts. The one prefixed with "932" rather than "924."   The other two Deluxe models and the Pro models all have the "924."  I feel this is misleading advertising on their part.  I contacted Ariens with my serial number, and all they said was my unit has the reduction unit in it.  I noticed someone in here telling a new owner of this years 8526 model on getting the R3 upgrade.  So maybe that is what I have or maybe not. 

What is this reduction thing.  I can't expect that they altered my gear drive to the same configuration as the heavy-duty one.  Mainly,  because the case appears to be much weaker and a little smaller.

So this year I got to use the machine.  It is quite capable of blowing some serious snow.  The problem is I have to use real high gear selections to do it.  This things ground speed is that of a turtle.  Everything is adjusted correctly, no slippage, proper RPM,  Trust me.  If you want I can get you electronic rpm measurement the next time I get it out of the shed.  I was giving my 15 yr old some lesions/practice etc. and cautioned him on making sure that he was in say forward gear when he starts out with his back against the wall, as the machine is quite capable of pinning him.  He engaged it in reverse and I challenged him to stop the machine from pushing him back on dry pavement.  He got the message that it would pin his belly-button to his spine then plow him right through a old heavy plywood faced garage door. 

He and I just did a neighbors 250 foot double wide with three snowfalls on it.  A 3 week old 4 inch, a two week old 3 inch and a fresh 8 inch.  Naturally the older snow was tough and packed so we were doing probably a good 10 inches plus of some tough underlying snow and some top powder.  Didn't matter, all of it went 30 plus feet in the air for a distance of no less than 40 feet.  The problem is we were doing it in 4th gear.  I don't think that is normal for an 8.5 hp.  When we transported it up there we had to use 6th gear with full throttle or it would have taken forever. First gear and 1st reverse are so slow they are useless.  So naturally I am thinking that what the modification may have been was at least in part to gear it down to take the stress off the inferior drive componets and weaker smaller transmission housing.  Which makes no sense as this machine is big and heavy, and has a large snow box that needs fed to operate properly, so the operator has to compensate by speeding up.  It weighs 240 lbs, that coupled with you say doing an EOD of wet thick heavy slush, filling the whole snow box and spilling a lot of it out on top of the box, can add 100 to 150 pounds to it's weight.  I feel like I am running a 1959 Caddy with a 1962 Rambler slushbox tranny that is gonna blow at any time.

When I contacted Ariens on this they were tight lipped, kinda like you got the reduction unit, buy see you later. 

So I was hoping to get some more information in here before I write a review on this machine. 

I know their will be mentions of advising to call Ariens again etc.  But trust me, they really don't seem to want to talk about it.  What can help prove that out, is they read and post in this forum.  They will read this, and they are quite capable of giving an explanation in here. However that remains to be seen. 

 

Regards. And any info you know of will be appreciated

Ben,

You're missing the point, I hope.

You asked for an answer and I gave you the best I had and that I could find. I am trying help you get what you need and have no problems with you asking for it. But to draw the conclusions you are throwing out there is not necessarily correct and not the best way to get answers.

If you came to me and said, I need something from you and if you don't give it to me it means you have something to hide, I would take it as rather demanding, extremely assumptive and probably tell you, forget it.  That's all I am trying to point out to you. You catch more flies with honey.

Now, explain what it is you really want to know. Is it, does the upgrade work? Does it help? Is it worth it? Are those not the bottom lines? The members here that have had the upgrade done or done it themselves can tell you first hand if it works and if it was worth doing? I guess if have to know more than that and more than what Terrapin has given you, you'll have to hope Ariens feels like answering you.

Good luck to you.

Ben,

You asked "So how do you buy parts for it in the future and know you got the correct part, etc"

I don't own an Ariens, but you might want to check with the company, or Terrapin who has the R3 upgrade, if they stamp the serial #'s on these parts.

If they don't, ask them if they'll give you 2 R3 upgrades for the price of 1 - that way you'll have an extra set of parts.  But I agree with Marshall here, you'll get more with Honey than vinegar - and believe me - I'm a heavy vinegar user!

--SnowRemover

Marshall thx for all your help.

I really don't understand why you are asking or guessing at what i really want.

Here is the original unchanged summary of questions.

And it is what I really want!!

1."What actually is the R3 upgrade"

2. "Does the upgrade (any of them) reduce the ground speed of the unit "

Now in asking that I find from some well mannered and knowledgable people that there may be two levels of upgrades, and that I may or may not be at the most recent fix and maybe that is why I am having problems.  There was also another owner who discovered the same thing in his other thread.

How are you gonna know if it is worth it if you don't know what it is?   If someone just wants to go on an opinion of results, then I am sure someone has a case of snake oil to sell them.  I heard it relieves grouchieness.

Respectfully Ben

Ah Ben, I'm not questioning you in that way, not assuming you have motives or anything. I just was trying to get to the bottom line to help you out better. I figured you could tell what you had by what machine you had and what serial number it was so then you would know if you needed the upgrade. I was just trying to cut thru the bull, so to speak.

Again, good luck.

Thanks Marshall.  You have been a positive help.  And sure i kidded you a little, but from what i have seen you are one of the bigger stone crushers in here as far as kidding around go's.    That is fine and welcomed.  Your attention to the issue and additions of help are important.    sometimes they are only small bits of info, but as a moderator., that is important and i think quite part of your role.  A lot of times you answer big and complex issues, fast,  and it saves everybody a ton of time.  Sometimes one can get caught in the middle by trying to help.  Fact of life.     So don't just wish me luck.  feel free to keep helping me.  

Snow remover good advice, on the "2 for."  

Also I didn't do any vinegar with Ariens, Last year in April.  One time an e-mail with my serial number.  Got answer "my unit has the reduction unit in it. Any of the 932104 's have it in it"  (if that is true then why are people with this years model getting advice to get the upgrade??  E-mailed back for a little more clarification, no answer. I did call a couple of times and got a receptionist etc and they asked why I was calling I just said I had some general questions on the R3 upgrade.  Got put on hold twice and eventually got disconnected. 

Now there have been indications that some of this years models have to be upgraded.  Being mine was last years model then maybe I got some interim level fix that could be called a reduction unit.  . who knows?  But believe me no vinegar here, just standard communications.  Is the "reduction unit the same as the R3 retrofit?"  Dun Know.

Here is the model and serial

932104                        025158  

Ben07-
   I have never heard the R3 referred to as anything other than R3.  That being said, "R" for Reduction "3" for generation/revision level 3 makes sense to me.  The only way for you to know for sure what you got is for Paul K from ariens to confirm it.  Now that you've posted your model & serial number, If/when he comes across this thread hopefully he'll shed some light on what you got.

When I had the R3 upgrade done in Oct 2003 for my  824 model 932101  the part number for the Kit was 53212100.  My dealer said it came in a large box.  Even bottom cover was replaced to clear the upgrade components.

It would be nice to know  all the part numbers in the kit.

Gentlemen,
 
The Ariens r3 High Performance drive system is fundamentally similar to the former design, but with significant enhancements in critical areas to increase torque output and friction disk service life.  There were upgrades in generally 3 sectors (as stated below):
 
1. The friction disk rubber compound was reformulated to increase its wear resistance and coefficient of friction. The new compound (or close variants thereof) are present on all Ariens snothro friction disks. The new compound increased the ability of the disk to transmit torque to the drive plate by 72% and also increased its wear resistance by 2-3 times.  
 
2. The second change related to the position of the friction disk carrier with respect to the drive plate axis of rotation. Basically, as the friction disk moves farther from rotational axis of the drive plate (i.e. from 1st gear up into the higher forward gears), the power transmission gets more efficient (less side-scrubbing and wear on the disk; i.e. more power being translated rather than consumed). Essentially, we moved the friction disk a bit further from the center of the drive plate for most of the gears. This is especially important for the lower forward gears in which units require a high torque output for bulling through the EOD (end of driveway). This was accomplished by changing the swing radius on the lower shift arm and adjusting the specification to which we adjust the shift rod.
 
3. The third change was a reshuffling of the internal ratios of the transmission. A friction disk transmission, by design, has its output capability hinged purely on the coefficient of friction between the friction disk and the drive plate. This is true for every friction disk driven unit. However, we optimized the ratios of the transmission so the friction disk has to transmit the same amount of power (horsepower), but with less torque across the friction disk/drive plate interface. With transmitted horsepower being constant, Torque is purely a function of RPM. That is, if the friction disk can increase its RPM by a certain ratio, the requirement for the friction disk to transmit torque is reduced by an equal ratio.  We essentially sped up the front side of the transmission (this includes the drive plate), and geared down the backside (friction disk and back). To use an analogy, it's like riding a ten speed bike to achieve the same speed as before, only we're pedaling twice as fact in first gear rather than pedaling slower in a higher gear. This RPM increase does not increase the wear on the friction disk (as some might speculate).  High friction disk wear rates are only achieved as you approach the torque transmission limits of the friction disk. With the design enhancements we've implemented, we are now much farther from this limit during operation.
 
I hope this answers your questions.  
 
Best Regards,
 
Paul Koltz
Engineering Leader
932/938 Snothro Group
Ariens Company

I must have accidently saved some posts I thought were real good from some of our moderators, members, and guests.

Ben07,

Your unit does indeed have the R3 high performance transmission. The updated drive does not affect the ground speed. I hope the posting that 'Mints dug up answers your questions.

PK

big time computer prob here be back when I can. just hoping to get this thru