Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions |
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jackrabbit000
Joined: Jan 10, 2011
Points: 15
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Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Original Message Jan 10, 2011 7:34 pm |
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I'm looking at either buying the Toro 2-cycle 221QE or the 4-cycle 421QE. One dealer I talked to said that the 4-cycle 163cc engine will be almost impossible to start, even with the electric start, if stored in an unheated garage at -20C. He said that he has lots of people who bought this machine come back and complain about it not starting when really cold. He had both the 2-cycle and 4-cycle models in the showroom and recommended that I buy the 2-cycle and that I would be a lot happier with it. Another dealer said that it just comes down to personal preference on which one you want to buy and that they are both just as easy to start when the temp is really cold out. Anyone have any comments about cold starting on the 421QE? This is the one I would like to buy because it would be a little bit quieter and the exhaust wouldn't stink as much as the 2-cycle.
This message was modified Jan 10, 2011 by jackrabbit000
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jackrabbit000
Joined: Jan 10, 2011
Points: 15
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Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #15 Jan 11, 2011 1:37 pm |
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jackrabbit, Don't you guys get a lot of snow in Alberta, Canada so given that is Toro 421QE or 221QE good big enough? Sounds like you need a Toro 1028 or 1128. We got a big dump of snow this weekend about 15". It gets really cold here but we don't usually get much at all. Supposed to be around -20C for a high all week.
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jackrabbit000
Joined: Jan 10, 2011
Points: 15
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Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #16 Jan 11, 2011 1:39 pm |
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I was thinking the same thing, great minds think alike I guess.  But honestly a dealer saying a 4 stroke Toro is hard to start? That just doesn't make sense at all. That's like the Honda dealer telling me The Honda Fit is reliable (I have 2 of them) but the Civic isn't. The dealer must have overstocked the 2 strokes. It'll be interesting to see what Toro says about it. I have the feeling that they are overstocked on the 221Q/QE's and just wanted to move them. It just doesn't make sense to me at all especially when Toro has the 2 year GTS. But, doesn't hurt to post it to see what everybody else says.
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jackrabbit000
Joined: Jan 10, 2011
Points: 15
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Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #17 Jan 11, 2011 1:42 pm |
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I'm no expert but isn't it because the engine oil in a 4 stroke engine on sub zero days can get thick enough to make it hard to get the motor up to speed by pull starting? That's why thinner oil is recommended the colder it gets. Two strokes have no such issues since there is no crank case oil to thicken-up. This dealer said that it had something to do with the automatic decompression in the engine is what makes a 4-cycle hard to start when it's stored in a really cold garage. Of course I'm no small engine expert and didn't even know what he was talking about.
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aa335
 
Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434
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Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #18 Jan 11, 2011 2:58 pm |
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This dealer said that it had something to do with the automatic decompression in the engine is what makes a 4-cycle hard to start when it's stored in a really cold garage. Of course I'm no small engine expert and didn't even know what he was talking about. Hmm...my Honda HS621 has decompression for starting and never had problem with the cold in an unheated garage. Seems like either he wants to move the 221Q due to overstock condition or that he count on uninformed users to forget adding oil to gasoline and toasting a 2 stroke engine so that he can make additional $ from out of warranty service. :)
This message was modified Jan 11, 2011 by aa335
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Steve_Cebu
Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Points: 888
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Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #19 Jan 11, 2011 3:25 pm |
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This dealer said that it had something to do with the automatic decompression in the engine is what makes a 4-cycle hard to start when it's stored in a really cold garage. Of course I'm no small engine expert and didn't even know what he was talking about.
Ok I called up Toro and spoke to Gabby, it doesn't matter if it's cold or not she said. But customers might be coming in and telling the dealer they have problems. It was hard to type as she was talking. She says that the authorized dealers act as tech support but she has had no complaints regarding the 421QE which does have Toro's guaranteed to start warranty which is for 2 years. She suggests that you call a different dealer in the area and ask them if they have problems with the 421QE starting. Now keep in mind I called US customer service. I hope this info helps you.
So you have a guaranteed 2 years to start warranty (at least in the US) double check for Canada and no reported problems. I'd say you're safe buying the 421QE. As a side note Toro wants to use the video with my wife in it!  They want it sent to their email and are asking permission. So my wife is really pleased with that. Go Toro!
"If you have more miles on your snow blower than your car, you live in New England." "If you can drive 75 mph through 2 feet of snow during a raging blizzard without flinching, you live in New England."
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jackrabbit000
Joined: Jan 10, 2011
Points: 15
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Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #24 Jan 11, 2011 6:19 pm |
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Ok I called up Toro and spoke to Gabby, it doesn't matter if it's cold or not she said. But customers might be coming in and telling the dealer they have problems. It was hard to type as she was talking. She says that the authorized dealers act as tech support but she has had no complaints regarding the 421QE which does have Toro's guaranteed to start warranty which is for 2 years. She suggests that you call a different dealer in the area and ask them if they have problems with the 421QE starting. Now keep in mind I called US customer service. I hope this info helps you. So you have a guaranteed 2 years to start warranty (at least in the US) double check for Canada and no reported problems. I'd say you're safe buying the 421QE. As a side note Toro wants to use the video with my wife in it! They want it sent to their email and are asking permission. So my wife is really pleased with that. Go Toro!
I called Toro Canada this afternoon also and she told me exactly the same thing. Did not know why the dealer would say that unless they had a surplus of 221's in stock. As far as she knows there are no starting problems and also mentioned the 2 year GTS. I also asked about the fuel leaking problem that I have read in many reviews with the 421's. She said that there have been quite a few complaints of the carbureator leaking gas on the ones starting with serial number 331. But right now she said that there is no recall on them and Toro is still looking into it. They are working on a fix for the leak and we should see it in the 2012 models this fall.
Steve, thanks for calling, really nice of you to go out of your way to call and ask. Hopefully they give you something really good for using your video. Also, thanks everyone for your replies also this is an awesome forum for getting info.
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