Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I'm looking at either buying the Toro 2-cycle 221QE or the 4-cycle 421QE.  One dealer I talked to said that the 4-cycle 163cc engine will be almost impossible to start, even with the electric start, if stored in an unheated garage at -20C.  He said that he has lots of people who bought this machine come back and complain about it not starting when really cold.  He had both the 2-cycle and 4-cycle models in the showroom and recommended that I buy the 2-cycle and that I would be a lot happier with it.  Another dealer said that it just comes down to personal preference on which one you want to buy and that they are both just as easy to start when the temp is really cold out.  Anyone have any comments about cold starting on the 421QE?  This is the one I would like to buy because it would be a little bit quieter and the exhaust wouldn't stink as much as the 2-cycle.

jackrabbit000 wrote:

Good thing I included the Canadian number then.  Let us know what Toro of Canada says about their 421Q starting in the cold. I have a Toro 1028OXE 2 stage and it starts with one easy pull once choked and primed, no matter how cold it is.

jackrabbit,

Don't you guys get a lot of snow in Alberta, Canada so given that is Toro 421QE or 221QE good big enough?  Sounds like you need a Toro 1028 or 1128.

Steve_Cebu wrote:
@jackrabbit000

Not sure of the dealer's motivation to push the 221Q over the 421Q.  I've talked to many dealers and they gladly sell me either model, doesn't make any difference. 

Maybe there has been so many rave reviews of the 421Q lately that sales of 221Q has slumped and the dealer just want to move them.  :)  Not that any of us here have anything to do with it. 

aa335 wrote:

I was thinking the same thing, great minds think alike I guess.

But honestly a dealer saying a 4 stroke Toro is hard to start? That just doesn't make sense at all. That's like the Honda dealer telling me The Honda Fit is reliable (I have 2 of them) but the Civic isn't.

The dealer must have overstocked the 2 strokes. It'll be interesting to see what Toro says about it.

I'm no expert but isn't it because the engine oil in a 4 stroke engine on sub zero days can get thick enough to make it hard to get the motor up to speed by pull starting?  That's why thinner oil is recommended the colder it gets.  Two strokes have no such issues since there is no crank case oil to thicken-up. 

Steve_Cebu wrote:
I'm a bearer of good news.  If I feel that a product has exceeded my expectation, it's worth giving credit where it's due.

Doesn't make sense to me either.  That dealer is iffy and I would not buy from them.   NO dealer should use FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) within the product lines that they sell.  Just bad practice and I'm sure Toro would not tolerate that.

Paul7 wrote:

Yes that is the viscosity but you can get the viscosity in different weights. I forget what's in my Toro. But you can always go lower in viscocity if you live where it gets really really cold like Frostbite Falls MN or almost anywhere in Canada.

aa335 wrote:

Yeah I'd agree with that which is another reason I didn't buy Ariens from my dealer. far too pushy on that product line. Kinda like teh kid in school who tried too hard to give you a stick of gum. You just KNEW it was loaded with pepper or something.

I hope the OP calls up Toro of Canada and gets the straight scoop on the 421Q. I wonder if Toro still has their starts on one pull guarantee any more?

Jack-I bought a Toro 2450 2 stroke a few years back and have been tremendously impressed with it's reliability and utility. Absolutely not finicky at all and if you use a synthetic 2 stroke oil in your mix no detectable smoke or smell.

I think weight is important in a paddle drive machine (lighter being more desirable) and therefore would go with the 221 as opposed to the 421 as I assume the four cycle variant is a heavier machine. In addition the four stroke Loncin (Chinese) engine is new in the Toro line and doesen't have a track record.

Which ever machine you buy see if Toro is putting a fuel shut off on them. If not see if the 221/421 still has that little window of open space on the lower right hand corner as you face the machine as they did on the 2450-3650 series . If so buy yourself the standard gas shutoff valve and 2 spring fuel clamps and install the valve in the fuel line in the afore mentioned space. I don't know why it isn't mandatory to have a fuel shutoff on all ope.

 Marc   

mml4 wrote:
You have to wonder why they don't just include a fuel shutoff as a standard feature for the few extra $$$'s it would cost????