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jackrabbit000


Joined: Jan 10, 2011
Points: 15

Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Original Message   Jan 10, 2011 7:34 pm
I'm looking at either buying the Toro 2-cycle 221QE or the 4-cycle 421QE.  One dealer I talked to said that the 4-cycle 163cc engine will be almost impossible to start, even with the electric start, if stored in an unheated garage at -20C.  He said that he has lots of people who bought this machine come back and complain about it not starting when really cold.  He had both the 2-cycle and 4-cycle models in the showroom and recommended that I buy the 2-cycle and that I would be a lot happier with it.  Another dealer said that it just comes down to personal preference on which one you want to buy and that they are both just as easy to start when the temp is really cold out.  Anyone have any comments about cold starting on the 421QE?  This is the one I would like to buy because it would be a little bit quieter and the exhaust wouldn't stink as much as the 2-cycle.
This message was modified Jan 10, 2011 by jackrabbit000
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Steve_Cebu


Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Points: 888

Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #25   Jan 11, 2011 7:21 pm
jackrabbit000 wrote:
I called Toro Canada this afternoon also and she told me exactly the same thing.  Did not know why the dealer would say that unless they had a surplus of 221's in stock.  As far as she knows there are no starting problems and also mentioned the 2 year GTS.  I also asked about the fuel leaking problem that I have read in many reviews with the 421's.  She said that there have been quite a few complaints of the carbureator leaking gas on the ones starting with serial number 331.  But right now she said that there is no recall on them and Toro is still looking into it.  They are working on a fix for the leak and we should see it in the 2012 models this fall.

Steve, thanks for calling, really nice of you to go out of your way to call and ask.  Hopefully they give you something really good for using your video.  Also, thanks everyone for your replies also this is an awesome forum for getting info.



Glad to be of help and I was curious myself. Interesting info about the gas leak too. I didn't ask about that.

So are you going to get a 421 this year or wait until next year?

"If you have more miles on your snow blower than your car, you live in New England."  "If you can drive 75 mph through 2 feet of snow during a raging blizzard without flinching, you live in New England."
MN_Runner


Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Joined: Dec 5, 2010
Points: 622

Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #26   Jan 11, 2011 7:45 pm
Steve,

You have been promoted to Saint Toro!

This message was modified Jan 11, 2011 by MN_Runner
jackrabbit000


Joined: Jan 10, 2011
Points: 15

Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #27   Jan 11, 2011 8:29 pm
Steve_Cebu wrote:
Glad to be of help and I was curious myself. Interesting info about the gas leak too. I didn't ask about that.

So are you going to get a 421 this year or wait until next year?



I'm going to check into the carbeurator gas leak a bit more before getting one.  Since Toro has not decided to do a recall on the 421 yet, I would hate to buy one and have the leaking gas problem especially when the machine will be stored inside my garage.  Probably going to get the 421QE myself.  They cost around $1000 here.
Steve_Cebu


Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Points: 888

Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #28   Jan 11, 2011 8:57 pm
MN_Runner wrote:
Steve,

You have been promoted to Saint Toro!



That would be even funnier if you knew my last name. ROFL!

"If you have more miles on your snow blower than your car, you live in New England."  "If you can drive 75 mph through 2 feet of snow during a raging blizzard without flinching, you live in New England."
Steve_Cebu


Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Points: 888

Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #29   Jan 11, 2011 8:59 pm
jackrabbit000 wrote:
I'm going to check into the carbeurator gas leak a bit more before getting one.  Since Toro has not decided to do a recall on the 421 yet, I would hate to buy one and have the leaking gas problem especially when the machine will be stored inside my garage.  Probably going to get the 421QE myself.  They cost around $1000 here.


Maybe you could check the serial number on the unit you are buying? Other than that I guess you have to take a risk if it'll leak gas or not. I'd just call up a bunch of places and check their serial numbers. You might get one built before the problem.

"If you have more miles on your snow blower than your car, you live in New England."  "If you can drive 75 mph through 2 feet of snow during a raging blizzard without flinching, you live in New England."
NotMoneyGuy


Location: Toronto & north of
Joined: Nov 10, 2010
Points: 87

Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #30   Jan 11, 2011 9:03 pm
jackrabbit000 wrote:
Probably going to get the 421QE myself.  They cost around $1000 here.


Ouch! If you might instead sway towards the two-stroke 221QE, you could save a bundle buy having one shipped from the Toronto area where at Home Depot the 221QE is going for CA$675.00.  HD SKU 490090. Maybe Alberta, Canada HD locations will price match. On my way home this evening, I swung by the Elgin Mills / Leslie (Richmond Hill) location where they have 98 units on hand, still at CA$675.

I am paying close attention to the price as I bought a 221QE on Dec 22/10 and I have it still sealed in the box awaiting a price drop and a price match opportunity (within 30 days or rejuvenation thereof).  (I also have an Ariens in use to get me through anything white that comes our way, but so far a light snow winter around here.) With 10% off the $675 for first use of HD card I got it for CA$607.50 but I am still looking for a better deal since last season's HD price history was pretty sweet; Jan 22/10 down to CA$499, Feb 24/10 down to CA$399. That was around Toronto. A Montreal location cleared out their last few 221QE units at CA$299 on Feb 24/10.

CA$1000 seems pretty steep, especially if you're kind of on the fence on 2- vs. 4-stroke.  Good luck!

Ariens Deluxe 28  921022  WI, USA      --      Poulan PRO PR621ES 208 cm3 961880002-00

alty


Joined: Nov 1, 2010
Points: 38

Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #31   Jan 11, 2011 9:54 pm
Since the beginning of this winter my 421QE has started on the first or second pull every time.  It's been down to the single digits - but not

below zero yet.   When I purchased it from the local Toro Dealer - they had over twice as many 221's as 421's in stock.

saskwinter


Joined: Dec 14, 2010
Points: 14

Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #32   Jan 12, 2011 10:15 am
I live in Saskatchewan (which is as cold-if not colder- than Alberta).  My 221 QE starts easily, however the carb *always* freezes up and causes it to run in a lean (over reving) condition.  The only way to solve this problem has been to point a blow dryer at the carb for about two minutes before operation- often it will freeze up during operation.

 Toro customer service has been zero help...they simply said, "sorry, that can happen in cold weather."  I would not buy this unit again.

Good luck.
Steve_Cebu


Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Points: 888

Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #33   Jan 12, 2011 10:17 am
saskwinter wrote:
I live in Saskatchewan (which is as cold-if not colder- than Alberta).  My 221 QE starts easily, however the carb *always* freezes up and causes it to run in a lean (over reving) condition.  The only way to solve this problem has been to point a blow dryer at the carb for about two minutes before operation- often it will freeze up during operation.

 Toro customer service has been zero help...they simply said, "sorry, that can happen in cold weather."  I would not buy this unit again.

Good luck.


Do you think the 421Q would be any better or the same as the 221Q when it comes to freezing up?

"If you have more miles on your snow blower than your car, you live in New England."  "If you can drive 75 mph through 2 feet of snow during a raging blizzard without flinching, you live in New England."
saskwinter


Joined: Dec 14, 2010
Points: 14

Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #34   Jan 12, 2011 11:28 am
It can't imagine it being any worse.  As I said, it starts easily even at -30, but it runs like junk.  I'm going to try some Iso-heet in the fuel, maybe that will help?  However, this unit freezes up whether it's -35 or -5.  Sad.
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