Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Have a 10 year old Ariens 824, model 924082. During Sunday’s snowstorm halfway through cleanup the auger stopped turning. I did not hit anything or was there a jam. The impeller works fine and the shear bolts are good. The augers turns turn freely, both locked on the shaft. If you turn the impeller the shaft turns going inside the gear case but the augers don’t turn.  I know the augers should not turn by trying to spin them, only way to move them is to turn impeller, but mine spin freely indicating a problem within the gear case. I am hoping it’s only the pin that holds the gear onto the shaft.

Now my dilemma, I cannot pull the gears case assembly out because the collar( hub) that the auger pulley is bolted to is frozen solid. It must be removed to enable the whole gearcase assembly to be pulled out from the front of the bucket. I did remove the pulley from the hub to have more room to work.

I have spent 8 ½ hours today trying to get the hub off the keyed shaft. I soaked for hours with penetrating oil, used a torch with Mapp gas and still won’t budge a fraction. Our good friend Majorxlr8n (Marty) emailed and told me to do the following:

“If the auger shaft bearings are on the OUTSIDE of the auger casing, then all you

have to do is remove them from both sides. The next step is so simple - to pull

the augers & gearcase out, spin the impeller shaft either clockwise or

counterclockwise. The whole auger assembly will “walk” off the impeller shaft,

and VOILA - its all out!”

I will attempt this method on Thursday. I still would like to get the hub off just in case I will need to replace 
the shaft with worm gear and the main gear that meshes with it. Sadly enough my Ariens parts manual shows
the shaft and gear must be bought as an assembly (73.00), even though I may only need the gear. 
If the shaft must be replaced and I can’t get the hub off my last resort will be to use a sawzall and cut the shaft 
close to the hub, once I get the hub off, I may be able to pound the cut shaft off the hub using a vise. 

Does anybody have a suggestion of what else I can try to remove the frozen hub, perhaps there is a special tool that can get it off.

Sorry fellas about the crappy text in my post, yes it was done in MS Word and pasted, won't do that again.

Snowshoveler - In my email to Marty I was thinking of the pickle fork tool you mentioned, I'm a little concerned though cause the metal housing the shaft goes through is not really that strong and I'm afraid it may bend. That puppy is really on tight. Do you suggest doing it from the top down or laying it on the bucket and doing it from underneath, both way are accesible.

You stated that you believe it's only the key on the auger shaft. I have the Ariens parts manual with schematic and it does not show a key or keyway in shaft. It looks to me that the auger gear is pinned to the shaft using those cheap hollow pins. I hope you're right cause that's quite a bit of torque being held by such a flimsy pin, a key makes more sense. I did notice some discrepencies in the parts schematic, such as they only show my hub having one set screw, whereas it has two. On Thursday I'll follow Marty's suggestion and try to walk the auger assembly out as per his instructions. If that doesn't work I'll go buy a pickle fork and attempt to remove the hub. I will let you know how it turns out. Are there any tricks in splitting the gearcase halves, I'll need to get some Ariens Gear Oil and the Locktite Gasket maker. Don't know why they just don't make gaskets for it, easier and lessy messy.

Itzbin,

I just emailed you an hour or so ago. I STAND CORRECTED - the shaft will NOT "walk out" as I mentioned. There are bushings that will prohibit it from coming out UNLESS you can split the auger gearcase halves. If the roll pin did fall out, I hope it didn't cause any damage to the worm gear or shaft. As for the hub removal, definitely try a tie rod fork. I have one that attaches to an air chisel - it will be summoned to get a auger pulley/hub off a stubborn Sears 2 stage that has been driving me nuts the past few days since obtaining it.

Marty

Marty,

Thanks for posting, may benefit others down the road. I read your email and will attempt  the pickle fork and heat tomorrow.

Snowshoveler, The problem in my case will not be a key, mine does not have one. I failed to mention that there are two gearcases available for certain models of the 1994 Ariens, a cast iron one for models 924084,85,86,87,91,92. As luck will have it, my model is the 924082, the only model with a split aluminum gearcase, the cast iron one is a solid unit and looks far better designed then the very simple aluminum casing. If you ask me this is piss poor design on any model They should have made it with split impeller shaft using a heavy duty coupling. It's easy for them to assemble when everything is new, but when rust sets in, as it will most certainly do regardless of how well maintained, disassemble will be a chore to say the least.

Not sure of your budget, but i had a 924 same vintage over the summer that had the aluminum gearbox cracked open. I purchased a complete unit with the auger shafts and all for aprox $200 and also replaced the auger bushings and main bearing at the same time. I was told after i had already iknstalled it that i could have put the cast unit in there but at that point it was too late. This might be an option for you. I also had to add the l2 gear luber because they sell you the unit dry. The complete job was only 45 min. just another option for you.

I saw a price of 233.00 for the whole assembly, not including the oil. I don't think it's worth it since I already have over 400.00 invested in it. At that point I thinks it's wisest to part the machine out and buy a new one for 1000.00. Your talking having at least 640.00 invested in a 10 year old machine, with a cheaper aluminum gearcase. Common sense tells me the new ones will also have aluminum and not cast iron, just don't make em like they used to. Once I get that stupid hub off I'll know better where I stand.

Replacing the  impeller shft and auger gear can be done for under 100.00, that's acceptable, but 240.00 or so is not. BTW the cast iron assembly that you didn't buy goes for 332.45 from RCPW.com, under part # 52403500.

The Ariens Professional models have cast iron gearboxes.  Check out the 926 DLE. 

I believe Ariens stopped putting gaskets around the gearcase because of leaks. 

got it apart yet or what...the suspense is killing me ,come on will ya.

seriously though there should be a key on the shaft in there somewhere.

later chris

Snowshoveler,

The gears with the keys are on the smaller units with 3/4" rake shafts. I believe the one itzbinnice is referring to (with a 1" rake shaft) has a similar gear with a "shoulder" and cross hole on the casting for a hardened groove pin (it's not a roll pin/spring pin).

PK

 

     

any chance that hardened grove pin snapped or sheered of in some way.

would be an eazy fix wouldnt it.

i have to get some of those service manuals for the new ariens product.

we sell some of it now and i would like to be well informed.paper always makes you look good

later chris 

Sorry for being late, busted my tail off today. I tip my hat to you guys that do this for a living, you damn sure earn your money. I got the hub off today using a pickle fork for ball joints (15/16) spread. The ones for the tie rods are too small (21/32) because the shaft is 3/4". Took a while but I didn't damage anything and the hub can be reused. I found the problem, the brass gear that is pinned to the 1" auger shaft was completely wiped out, didn't even look like a gear. Yes the pin that holds it is solid and strong, not the hollow type I thought it would have. The worm gear looks OK but I went this far so I think I'll replace the whole shaft, including the rear bearing that mounts on the rear housing. According to RCPW.com the brass gear can't be bought separately, only in tandem with the impeller shaft.

I'm going to the local Ariens dealer on Saturday and confirm that the gear can't be purchased alone. I'll bring the shaft with me and ask them if they suggest replacing if the gear can be bought separately. I still have one problem, I can't get the impeller of the shaft, I'll have to bring it somewhere and have it pressed off. The gear box had no oil in it, but plenty of brass shavings. I just bought this used recently off Ebay as a buy it now. When I picked it up I saw it had two nails substituing as shear pins, a flag right there but it was too late, already paid for.  The auger did turn though, I used it on a 4" snowfall. I summize the guy hit something or something got stuck and the nails didn't snap and chewed up most of the gear. Just enough meat to move the auger. When I did the EOD and met resistance, along with the sloppy rear bearing, it chewed off the fraction of the gear that was remaining. Lesson learned, shear pins are designed for a reason and alot cheaper than what I'm going through. I did scold the guy and told him you should be ashamed of yourself for doing that, the guy was carpenter/handyman and should have known better. First thing I did was put OEM shear pins in, but I did  not check the gearbox oil, as it turns out it had none, it did have some grease in ther but not much Speaking of that, looking at how it is engineered, it appears if it were filled with oil, it would leak out the shaft. Sorry for sounding stupid, it's because I am, but should that gearbox be filled with gear oil or some sort of grease?