Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

We have a function to go to yesterday.  It's snowing the whole time and when I get home there's about eight inches on the ground.  earlier in the day I was all psyched to get a blowin' but when I got home, I felt terrible and went to bet early.

I'm kind of glad I didn't clear the driveway because when I wake up, there's twice as much snow and all of the dirves that were cleared are once again, covered.  So, I go out, spend ten minutes trying to fire up the Toro before I realize I have the fuel shut-off valve on "off."  I turn it on and the 'Ol Tec starts with one pull. 

The snow is around fifteen inches deep but some drifts were three to four feet and the EOD was about three feet of pretty heavily packed snow.  El Toro handles it all in stride until I get to the right side of the EOD when I am immediately reminded of the email I recevied from Toro a while back:

"Toro snow throwers do not have shear pins.  The reason for this is if you hit something while snow throwing, the auger and engine will stop letting you know that something is wrong.  You can then remove whatever it was that you hit, start up the machine, and continue snow throwing.  If the snow thrower had shear pins, they would need to be replaced before starting the snow thrower again."

With all the snow, who expected the paper to be delivered...and the SUNDAY paper at that.  Well, true to Toro's word, the machine ingested the paper and stopped immediatley (I guess the shearless system works).  I didn't even have to look, I knew what had happened.  So, when I gor around to the front, there in all it's shredded glory is the Sunday paper jammed tight between the auger, impeller and housing.  A big screwdriver (the tool, not the drink), a sharp utility knife, and about thirty minutes of pulling out bits of paper, I get it a bit looser.  I figured since the machine got itself into this trouble, let it get itself out.  I start her up, release the auger and out flies shredded newspaper, not unlike the skiier who fell into the bug snowblower in James Bond's "On Her Majesty's Secret Service."

I get the driveway done, a couple of hundred feet of walk, and figure I'll do the paver walks and patio in back so the dogs will have a place to run around other than the deep snow.  While going along the sitting wall, the machine (apparently still hungry after eating the paper) scoops up about sixty feet of previously unseed low voltage wire.  This time the machine just snaps the wire and keeps running but I stop to look.  There it is, wrapped around the auger.  Off it comes, and blowing continues with no more events.  Overall, a good day.

LL

Ahhh...nothing like getting up to the Sunday papers.

It took you 30 minutes, in blizzard conditions, to remove a frozen newspaper. I broke a pin, first in many years, and had it fixed in about five minutes.

Ill take my inferior pin system, Thanks

I'll take a shear pin system also...just more to go wrong on the other sytem. BUT...we'd still have to get the damned paper out after replacing the shear pin

Good Deal LL.

I had a lot of rope from a sled get tangled thanks the the 13 yr old and cut a extension cord today in half today thanks to the wife lol.....Overall a good day.... 

C

ChrisS wrote:

Yeah that's the ticket...sure the wife put that in my way, then the kid...why he sabbotaged me.

 sorry could not resist!

LOL....

The boy apologized, the wife blamed me lol...Ah life is good lol....

C

I'm glad I don't get the paper...LOL.  LL, I guess you backed the blower back into the garage, to remove the paper and hopfully didn't stay in that cold.   

lland wrote:  So, when I gor around to the front, there in all it's shredded glory is the Sunday paper jammed tight between the auger, impeller and housing. 

this is the key sentence... between impeller and housing. i did this last year 1st time out with new ariens. took me an hour to remove the jammed newspaper. shear bolts have no impact on impeller jams.

i think where the shearpin-less system shows its weakness is when you get something wrapped around the auger.  Cause then you just pop the pins(if they havent gone on thier own) and spin the auger(s) to get the thing out.  But i would have to think that you would have to hit a very particular set of conditions to see it happen.  For "normal" shaering events(accidentally bumping into your retaining wall, for example) i would think toro's system would work fine.

Do Toros really not have shear pins?  I just bought a 1028xle and asked my dealer about that, and he said that they do have shear pins, but the units are designed to stop rather than have the pins break.  He said in an extreme case the pin will break, but unlikely.  I don't know much about these things but I know my unit has two brass colored bolts going through the "auger axle".  Are these shear pins?  What's the real story?  thanks.

  Jake14,

                   Welcome to the best Forum on the  Web!!

Give the folks here a little time to resolve your question, and they will  ! ! !

                                                                  Fred                

Welcome to the forums!

I break at least one pin every storm and it's a PITA, especially in the dark, or when your accross town and your toolbox is still at home.  I sucked up a tarp with the Ariens a few weeks ago and it was easy to get the tarp out but it took about 15 minutes of fumbling with it in the dark and cold to put a new pin in. 

lland wrote:
I think Toro should pay for a new paper.

Glad the shear pin free system works, though I hope my Toro doesn't eat my Sunday paper because we use it to house train the dog.

Welcome Jake,

We need the new Toro owners to let us know here what the deal is.  In the past with the drum design the machine had to be hit by a plow truck before the pin would break and it is a long one that went through the entire drum, they have been known to never have to be changed because the drum prevented things from getting sucked in if that makes sense.  I am curious to here what they have to say also.  They look and sound like a sweet machine and while I like the protection of the shear pin system I too am tired of it.....

The old paddle wheel designs that Simplicity had in thre 60's and 70's didn't have shear pins. Something got stuck and the belt slipped. I am most curious as to how this works on the Toros. Are we to understand that there is no mechanism to protect the gear train?What happens if the blower eats a newspaper or worse?

Marc

PS- The print size modification was too small for me. Can't beleive Chris locked me out and moved me! I'm such a naughty lad!

Next time he won't let me play in the Snow!!

mml4 wrote:

ROFL....

OK, OK, you can still play LMAO.....

C

Sometimes you can start the machine,(newer models anyways)...and keep logging the auger lever and sometimes it will free up.It works on frozen squirrells anyways.

Seriously,Toros must hve some way of protecting their gear box. If not shear pins then what?

This is only my second season using a blower with pins and I haven't broken one yet. My manual gives a torque specification of 11ft.lbs for the shear pins. Would over or under torqueing them be cause for them breaking?

Marc 

I was wondering about the brass colored bolts that went through the auger shaft as well.  That's why I emailed Toro since there was no mention of the shear pins in the manual.  Their wanwer was what I posted above...they have no shear pins.  Maybe the brass bolts are just to hold the auger on the shaft (brass to avoid corrosion).

But, after my run-in with the paper, it appears that the system works.  The machine shut down very quickly with no additional stress (that I noticed) on the components.

Maybe I need to get my old paper delivery service back that on occasion would manage to get the paper stuck in a tree.  At least it was off the driveway.

LL

mml4 wrote:
If you under torque them they can get stressed over time and "slow shear", while rounding out the holes ni the auger and shaft.  If you go too tight they won't shear when they should.  Depending on what causes the shear, sometimes you know it and others you don't/  It's VERY important to pin changing that you keep the augers greased.  To do so, you take the pins out(so the augers spin freely on the shaft, squirt grease in via the zircs, sping the augers and replace the bolts.  I do it once/year with a heavy  synthetic wheel bearing type grease.

well i have a different take on those supposed unbreakable shear pins.  i have a 6 year old toro model 924 with the drum auger and those darn "shear pins".  i have a gravel driveway and have picked up rocks, newspapers, etc and never once has the machine stopped running as a result.  the belt just seems to either slip or fetch up, which results in having to ajust the belt tension after removing the stuck object.  i finally broke one of the shear pins late last week after sucking in a dogbone.  its the middle of winter and snowing on a regular basis, and the local dealer has a back log of 3 weeks in their service shop, so i am forced to repair it myself.  the shear pin broke flush with the shaft of the auger and after breaking 3 cobalt drill bits and trying a bolt extractor i am still unable to remove the darn shear pin bolt!!!  the next step is to remove the entire auger mechanism and drive shaft in order to heat the shear pin to see if it can break the bond between the bolt and shaft!  This is ridiculous!  toro should get rid of this stupid system and use regular shear pins like most other machines as it usually takes just a few minutes to replace them, which is not that big of a deal in comparison to what i have to go through to relpace mine!!   on top of the difficulty factor, they cost almost $20 to replace each bolt, which in my opinion is outrageous!!  the reason i bought toro in the first place is because i have a bad back which prevents me from shovelling snow and my local dealer recommended the toro as the most reliable.  next time i will buy a honda, or something more conventional, but NOT a toro!

I have a 1996 Toro 824 Power Shift with the drum auger.  A couple weeks ago I broke an Auger bolt after eating a 6" round cast iron plate.  This machine doesnt use "shear bolts" either.  The machine stopped dead in its tracks and I had to push it home like a dead mule.  I feared the worse since I knew it didnt have "shear bolts" according to Toro.  It did in fact break an auger bolt.  The bolt was brass colored and had three radial lines on the head which indicates a steel grade 5 bolt, There were no lines cut around it like a "shear bolt" to cause it to break easier.  There are small spacers used by Toro on  each bolt and these are not stocked by any dealer in the area.  Luckily I found the one that flew off when it broke.  I found some grade 5 bolts at the hardware store and reassembled the machine and its up and running again.  I will order the correct parts in the future.  I agree it is a pain in the a-s to replace these, glad I was close to home when it happened.  With the drum auger you have to work down inside the drum thru a large hole on each side of the drum to access the bolts.  I was lucky I was able to punch the broken  piece out with a long screw driver.

Toro has a nice marketing thing going by saying "no shear bolts required" they just dont tell the rest of the story by saying the auger bolts will break when they really have to, so have some on hand if you need them.  I couldnt imagine what it would have cost to fix the differential or the transmission.  This machine has an actual multi geared transmission, so there is no slipping rubber drive wheel to deal with.  I bought this in November for $300. sure beats the Ariens single stage I had.

Bought it for $300.00?  More like stole it for that price!  Good deal.

By the way, a grade five bolt is pretty much the same as a shear pin, so the hardware man tells me. 

 I  had to do a mercy call the other day for a buddy's sister, a single mom who had  been fleeced by a small motor mechanic.  She has a late '70s Craftsman machine that's worth MAYBE $150.00.  The machine wasn't running right so her brother recommends this authorized small engine mechanic (friend) to fix it. One week and $580.00 later she gets the machine back.  Her teenage son fires it up  for a few seconds and it runs OK so they shut it down right away and put it in the shed.  This is around September.  She's hurt by the amount she had to pay the guy but does so any way.  The first big snow we get,  they try to fire up the machine and it won't run.  It will fire up but dies soon afterward.   So they shovel snow by hand for six weeks until the brother tells me of his sister's situation.  I immediately tell him  to bring it back to the mechanic who skinned his sister and get him to fix it.  Well, he's timid and his sister is as well. so they don't want to confront the thief, rip off artist, gouging, crook mechanic.   I agreed to look at the machine for them.    I drained the float bowl and it was full of grit.  I clean it out then get the machine running.  It runs for a while then stops.  I fire it up with the fuel cap loose and it runs fine.  I clear ice and dirt from the vent in the fuel cap and all is well with the engine performance.  I test the machine on a snow bank and notice only one auger is turning.  Sure enough, it has no shear pin in it.  We head to the hardware store and get the grade five bolt to use instead of a shear bolt (as per hardware man's recommendation).  Now the machine is running great. 

I still have trouble controlling my temper when I think of that mechanic (supposedly a family friend) ripping off a single mom, with very little income.  To add insult to injury, it was her brother that recommended the thief.  I asked him what was going through his head and why he didn't confront the guy concerning his sister being so badly gouged.   He said the guy's an old family friend and he wasn't comfortable getting in his face over it.  That's some friend. .....  Needless to say, they won't be going back to him.  

i have a Toro 1332 power shift doesnt run right now but in the 10 years I used it I never had any trouble with shear bolts was told by the dealer it didnt have shear bolts and the thing would plow through anything. I bought a cub cadet 930 two weeks ago but am thinking about getting toro fixed and hanging on to it for back up and to see how the cub is going to perform we havent had any snow to speak of since I bought it ,used it once.

This is what caused my "non- shear bolt " to break.  Cast iron approximately 7" across and one piece until I  broke it.

borat wrote:
I'm curious...exactly what DID the mechanic do for $580.    I hate hearing stories like this but I guess they happen all the time.

I'm curious...exactly what DID the mechanic do for $580. 

According to the woman's brother, he replaced points & condenser, spark plug & oil and put a set of chains on the wheels.  She needs the chains like a kick in the a$$.  Her driveway is flat and paved.   I'd say with the cost of the chains at around $50.00,  points, condenser, plug & oil, maybe $35.00, and an hour & a half labour at $80.00/hr the bill shouldn't have been too much over $200.00.  She was an uninformed and trusting victim and the pr!ck stuck it to her.   If it were my sister, the rip off artist would have inherited an old snow thrower.   Needless to say, he's no longer a family friend.