Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I have been looking at toro 826, ariens 927dlx, simplcity 9528 and JD 1130 [which I understand is a simplcity in JD green]. I have a 250ft driveway mostly one car width. I know there is some differences in sizes , but they are close to my budget of $2000 canadian taxes in. Will the 826 handle the heavy wet snow as easy as the larger Simplicity and JD models. It is hard to get a straight answer out the salesman,so I will ask questions on here.  Cast iron gearboxes vs aluminum, does it matter?  The chute rotation gears in the toro are plastic , in the ariens they are plastic and steel  vs. both steel gears in the simplicity and JD . Is that a concern for the future? What are your thoughts on these models longevity? Help me pick the right !st snowblower.

Large frame Simplicity or JD. For all of the reasons you've stated.

borat

 what do you think about the electric chute rotation for this year?

granville wrote:
I've heard/read mixed reviews on the electric chute controls on various machines. Some claim that the motor is no more than a windshield wiper motor use for this function. If it's true, it should be fairly robust. On the other hand, windshield wiper motors don't normally live on the top of a vibrating machine out in sub zero temperatures, running gears grinding through ice and frozen snow. Only time will tell how long they hold up.

I'd prefer not to have one on my machine. My thinking is that if it's mechanical, I can see how it works. If it breaks, chances are that I can fix it and in short order. When a component is complicated and un-repairable with what I have readily available, it becomes a liability. If it does fail, a major component of the machine is now inoperative and likely to cause considerable operational issues. I'm sure that if I had to deal with a failed chute servo motor, I'd probably remove it and manually control the chute and lock it into place with a pair of vice grips or something. That's going very manual but it would get me through until a replacement part can be obtained.

I protest the use of unnecessary complicated components as vital parts of essential equipment. Personally, I think it's a way for manufacturers to reduce construction costs, dangle a gizmo in front of uninformed customers to lure them into buying their product and finally, it will also create much more dependence on the dealer because Joe Average can't fix it. Every one wins except the consumer.

If you have no alternatives, what can you do? I certainly wouldn't turn away from an otherwise very stout product because of the electric chute control. I would however, have a good look at how it can be bypassed if it fails and have either a replacement part on hand or necessary "fix it stuff" ready to go.

borat  ,I know you like the simplcity models ,but what do you think of the toro and ariens models in general

granville wrote:
You're trolling right?

I'll answer your question just the same....

They are both higher end brands but they no longer represent the leadership in quality that they one did. Ten years ago, they were among the finest snow throwers available. Toro and Ariens both built solid reliable machines that sold for relatively high but not unrealistic prices. As far as I'm concerned, one had better do their homework if thinking about buying some of their latest offerings. Some Ariens and Toro models have suffered from the box store's demands to produce machines that sell for much less than their higher end models. The quality of these lesser machines do not represent even the lower prices associated with them. They're generally far lower in quality yet still demanding a premium for the brand names. A comparable Craftsman, Husqvarna or MTD machine would be similar in quality but probably a fair amount less. Unfortunately, I've recently been seeing signs of Simplicity doing the same with entry level machines being offered at some box stores (Sears for one).

As far as I'm concerned Toro's pricing is ridiculously high for everything they sell. Ariens aren't too far behind if you're buying their better machines. I like Simplicity because their large frame machines are every bit as good if not better than Toro and Ariens and are usually more reasonably priced, at least around here. I also have a problem with the the arrogance of the local Toro/Ariens dealership. A thief with a license to steal.

How do u feel about the Ariens Pro machines Borat?Besides the auger gear case being cast iron,do they share the same internal parts as the deluxe?Do the simplicity large frame and pro machines still use quality internal parts as the older machines?How would the average person know?Most of us just have to go by what is in the brochure.Unless someone is an engineer for a snowblower co.and actually tells us the specs,or works at a repair shop.One ope dealer told me they are all "junk".I guess he feels all these new snowblowers are not as robust as the older ones.

mikiewest wrote:
I will not go to the local Ariens/Toro dealership for reasons mentioned above. Therefore, I have not closely looked over the Ariens models you mentioned. The last time I looked them over was a couple years ago when I bought the Simplicity. As well, I haven't looked at the recent Simplicity models. Don't need to. I have a perfectly fine machine already. However, if the obvious components remain visually the same, i.e. the diameter of the auger/impeller shaft, cast iron gear case, thick gauge impeller/auger steel, thick gauge chassis steel, fit and finish etc. those would be sufficient indicators that the product is still well built. When you see those areas begin to diminish, the writing is on the wall...

borat wrote:

no I am not trolling ,just trying get to straight answers. I am trying to do my homework....

as far prices go here in PEI ; toro 826 $1799 [dealer will sell for 1399 to match HD],ariens 927 $1399,simplcity 9528 $1760and JD 1130 $1699.  The toro and ariens dlx models seems to be the same at the dealer and home depot. The sears models run from 1399 -1599 and the husqvarna from 1399 to 16499 , so no advantage there.

You should be able to negotiate at least a couple hundred off the price of the Simplicity. I bought my 9528 two years ago from a small out of the way farm implement repair shop for $1500.00 all in. I'd be surprised if the dealer will budge on the JD. Particularly if it's being sold at a John Deere dealership. They seem to think they are doing you a favour just by letting you have the privilege to buy their products. A bit like Toro dealership arrogance.

Several years ago, when I was shopping for a lawn tractor, I went to the JD dealership to check out what they had. The salesman told me that he had a used lawn tractor in the back that he would let go for $1000.00. When he showed it to me, I couldn't help but laugh. I swear it looked like it was from the '60s and might have done a tour or two in Viet Nam. It was virtually rusted everywhere with the odd patch of green paint that survived under the seat. It was filthy with a grease/grass/gravel coating on the engine and under carriage components. It had a 12 h.p. Kohler single cylinder engine that looked as though it was built by Fred Flintstone. Tires were probably original with not tread on them at all. In all honesty, he couldn't give me that machine. Yet they had the audacity to ask a grand for it!

Getting back to the snow thrower. Take the prices and brochures you have for the Ariens machines and have a pleasant talk with the Simplicity dealer. See if he'll match the price. Even if they don't move much on the Simplicity, I'd still buy one. If it's still built like the one I have (and I'm pretty sure they are), they're worth the extra money.

the JD has a 200 rebate ,reg price is 1899. The simplicity dealer has already took $75 off the reg price and said he couldn't go any lower.

granville,

Where have you looked for Snowblowers? Have you tried Veseys in York? They carry Toro, Ariens. Daniel Christopher sales in Tignish also carries Ariens.

I don't want to start a flame war, but it seems odd that some on here give very strong opinions calling some brands overpriced junk and others top of the heap even after admitting not to have been in a dealer in couple years or have any experience with current models.  I would suggest getting a good look at all the models in your price range, weigh the pros and cons of the features, try to move them all around to see how the various differentials and wheel lock systems work, take a close look at how heavy duty the moving and wear parts are.  I think most of the higher end brands, if maintained properly, will last a very long time.

Looks like the JD is the best bang for the buck. Considering that it's built by Simplicity, I'd have no hesitation buying one. Looks like you're getting more machine as well compared to the others.

billy wrote:

billy

I got the prices for the toro and ariens at veseys. Danny Christophers was higher for the ariens and the simplicity,but to be fair I did not go back to him to see if he would match the other dealers. Niel's in ch'town was the best price for simplicity. Green Diamond and Reddins were the same price for JD.  Do you know what  any of these dealers are like for service.

granville wrote:
I've only ever taken mine to Neil's Sales and Service. Price was fair and turnaround was quick.

bdresch wrote:
It's obvious you are targeting my comments. You might want to note that I was asked for my opinion. I don't see anyone asking for yours.
I don't recall using the word "junk". However, if that's the way you feel about the lower end Ariens and Toro models, you're entitled to your opinion and you'll get no argument from me.

I do not agree with Borat. Craftsman, Husqvaran, and MTD make inferior machines compared to the popular three: Areins, Toro, Simplicity. I recently purchased a toro and did extensive research to compare all three brands in my area. Just for kicks, I checked out the craftsmans, Huskys, and even an MTD throwers. There is no contest between the cheap machines, and the better offerings. Just take a look at one in person, you don't have to be an engineer.

As for Simplicity, Ariens, Toro.... they are much harder to differentiate. They are all pretty much the same in terms of quality, since all three compete with each other and will do as much to increase the bottom line. Are they cheaper built than in the past? Yes. Are any of them that much worse? No. When you consider all the variables between the three companies, the only thing that changes are three things relative to the consumer: price, features, and dealer support. (notice quality is excluded since all three are quality) Yes Toro is the most expensive of the three but if price is no issue and you like specific features than go with a Toro. Ariens are the least expensive of the three, depending on what price range you are looking at.

For example I was looking at the:
(I now prices are different, but just to give you and idea)

826OE @ $1200 after rebate ($1400 reg)
Simplicity L1226E @ $1100
Ariens 27 Deluxe @ $1000
Ariens 24 Deluxe @ $900

In the end my decision came down to features. I did not want traction control on the ariens specifically. I think traction changing components are a complex weak point even on the Toros, though I think Toro's design execution is the best. I didn't really care for the one sided remote lockout on both Ariens 27dlx and Simp. But I did like the quick chute on the toro. The Simplicity felt more robust in that it was heavier, but looking closer it was simillar in build with the other two. I did not like the electric chute rotation on the simp.

In the end I went with Toro because of the chute, and some other features that I liked (better engine, heavy duty bushings on the axle, bigger auger gearbox, intake area, weight distribution, and I like toro so I was obviously a bit partial to them). Also the rebate was a big factor. Dealer kind of sucked, but I won't need him since I work on my ope myself.

But I don't think my Toro will last any longer than the other three options I had. One thing I can be sure of: if properly taken care of, then all the machines will last at least 10-15 years, and they will be enjoyable to use in that time period. The cheap machines will probably last a while too, but won't be as enjoyable.

So in conclusion:

find good dealers (if you plan on them for service),
decide on the price point,
get a machine with features you want,

If I had to do it over again, I might have gone with the Ariens 24 Deluxe.

Yo OPEcrazy:

The prices for the machines you have listed vary considerably from those posted by the original poster. You are obviously looking at the lowest value models of the the higher grade manufacturers. Those machines and prices do not reflect the same grade of machines that original poster had listed. For instance, none of the machines you've listed would compare with a Simplicity 9528 in any way. All of the machines you've listed appear to bargain basement models being sold in box stores. I still maintain that a higher end Husqvarna or Craftsman would be very close in build quality, reliability and performance to the machines you've listed.

The only major difference between the models I listed and the more expensive ones are the features. The chassis's are virtually the same. I used my example as a reference for the OP.

In addition the OP mentionoed the toro 826 which is the snow thrower I purchased, so that makes my imput somewhat relative.

Just because the big box stores sells a snow thrower it doesn't make it crap. But crap <I>can</I> be sold at a big box store. There is no way you can compare any craftsman to a toro, Ariens, or Simplicity. Even the biggest most expensive craftsman is still the same design as the lower end ones, once again because companies keep the same chasis and add or subtract features. Huskies are better and maybe come closer to a Toro/Ariens/Simp, but still use thinner steel, and smaller gearbox, auger, and impeller.

For example- Toro shares the same frame, tractor mechanism, and chute, only differ in engine size, steering lockouts and two bucket sizes: 26,28 inch. You can't say the 826 is crap compared to the 1128 because they are the same design.

Simplicity does the same thing, only adds a steel gearbox after their least expensive large frame. Then the next change in the line-up happens with the Pro series different frame design.

Same thing with Ariens (24 Deluxe and up).

There are some other differences between a Simplicity 9528 and the machines you've listed.

9528 has a 4 blade impeller, easy turn, one had operation capability, snow max engine, bigger wheels, and weighs 255 lbs. The 26" Ariens is 228 lbs. That's 27 lbs. lighter. The Toro is even lighter at 222 lbs. The difference in weight tells me that we're not just looking at gizmos, there are obviously structural differences between the the classes of machines. I don't have all the machines available for me to measure shaft thickness, chassis steel thickness nor the thickness of impeller and auger components. However, just by comparing weights, I would venture to guess that some of the above features are probably not the same specs as the heavier machines.

For what they are, the machines you've listed are not bad machines. I just don't think they'd be up to the task as well as the larger frame machines under very difficult circumstances. I will say that the prices aren't bad either. Other than the Toro.

ope please....dont even try comparing toro to simplicity.Until now toro offered the tecumseh L-head engine on the machines except for the 1128OXE.And even on the 09 models,all of their machines have the same size tire,not the case with simp.Toro loves plastic.And save your breath on how it's hi tech NASA grade plastic.Plastic will always be plastic.If it does crack ...you're in for a big replacement bill.Steel doesnt crack.It might ding or rust but thats easy to touch up.Also Simp uses cast iron gear case on their Large frame and Pro machines.And I have spoken to numerous ope dealers.They laugh at Toro using left ,right power steering.It makes the machine more susceptible to breakdown and its not necessary.Toro is a good yuppie machine lol.

Well of course the Toro will be the lightest of the group. Did you see the amount of plastic used on one? Theres a lot. If you factor the plastic, aluminum gearcase, and lack of any traction system that could equal anywhere from 10-15 lbs. That is not necessairly a good thing, since in some cases you want a heavier machine, but Toros are aimed at a different consumer. They are marketed as the "sports car" of snow throwers so more for residential or light commercial work. That is the reason they are evenly balanced on the wheels, to make them more maneuverable. Once again, just because its aimed for "light" comercial work does not mean it is cheap. Just a different design.

When refering to the Simplicity, is that the L1428E? The second model in the large-frame throwers?

Now back on topic:

Granville, considering the machines you have been thinking about I would either go for the Toro or the Simplicity. I would stay away from Ariens. Also I wouldn't go for John Deere even though it is a bit cheaper. John Deere partnership is very interesting and I think Simplicity cheap out on some internal compounents to sell them for less. Especially since JD wants to make some money too. I see them sold at Lowes, with other MTDs.

The only problem is the Toro is a totally different machine compared to the Simplicity L1428E. I think the Simplicity would out throw the Toro.

mikiewest wrote:
Well I guess we all have our own opinions. And I am a yuppie for purchasing one. ;-)

Plastic is plastic, but without it lots of stuff wouldn't exist. Toro offers five years on all their "plastic" HDPE. Oh, and plastic doesn't rust and cause snow sticking.

But that doesn't matter anymore since I recommended the Simplicity anyways for the OP conditions.

Like I said,steel will rust but it doesnt take much time and effort to touch it up and u wont have a sticking problem...The snowblowers that r 30+ yrs old r steel not plastic my friend.

I find that using the the term "sports car" of snow throwers amusing. What kind of marketing ploy is that? Who, in their right mind would swallow that line? It's funny how some people can be herded in a certain direction simply by suggestion. If a sales person was to lay that line on me, I'd laugh at him. It's a snow thrower. A machine designed to throw snow so you can get to your "sports car". I'm certain there are enough people out there willing to delude themselves into thinking they're having more fun throwing snow than the poor fellow next door with the Ariens or Craftsman or whatever. The Toro guy, in his own mind, may be having more fun, but the other guys, in most cases, will have their driveways cleared just as soon as the Toro guy and some even sooner. But hey! The Toro guy will burn some donuts in the driveway for us when he's done!

Personally, I think Toro machines are fine snow throwers. Plastic and all. I just find that they're over priced and the dealerships that I'm exposed to tend to be arrogant. That is the part I find hardest to accept. Arrogance for what? There are numerous machines out there just as good and some better for less money. What's there to be arrogant about. Even Honda dealerships don't have attitude as bad as the local Toro dealer.

By the way, the 9528 is the same as the 1428 which is the first size large frame Simplicity with the cast iron gear case. It's more like the "tractor" of snow throwers.....

when u buy the sports car of snowblowers, do u get a latte also??lol....

does anybody know for sure if the JD 1130 is a true simplicity or does it have some murray mixed in?

I think Snowmann said the JD had a Murray drive system back in 2008. Don't know if that has changed for this year, but the bucket and chute are simplicity design.

Snowmann wrote:
http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/30234-0-1.html

granville wrote:
The "Large" Simplicity platform and it's derivatives (JD 1130 is one of them) have significant Murray based DNA (frame, traction driveline, handlebars, belt drives, auger and traction clutch systems). The blower head is the only legacy Simplicity assembly. You can compare part's manuals online to confirm this. The "Large" platform Simplicity was the first compromise made with their snow products after Briggs acquired them in 2005. There are a few folks on this forum that are happy with them, but the fact is they are not of the same grade as competitive premium units.

borat wrote:
About this post, you're comparing apples and oranges. You're comparing a 28" Simplicity unit with a 9.5hp (1350 series) engine to smaller units with Briggs 249cc engines (the engines themselves are a full 20lb lighter than the 1350+ series engines). The Ariens you're referring to is also a 24", not 26". With like engines and housing widths, these units are all within a few pounds of each other. Lastly, while the published dry weight of the Simplicity 9528 is 255lbs, it's actual dry weight is 247lbs. It's not uncommon for published numbers like this to be inaccurate. MTD and Husqvarna are notorious for such innaccuracy. In the end, with weights this close, it reveals little about product durability.

wrote:
Did the Briggs & Stratton take over effect the build quality while the machines were still being built in Simplicity's Wisconsin plant? From what I've read, B&S shut down the Wisconsin plant in 2007 and moved production to their Georgia facility. Do you think that they re-tooled the Wisconsin plant to produce the "Murray content" machines prior to shutting down the plant? That doesn't seem to make sense to me. My Simplicity is a 2007 model, built in 2006 in the Wisconsin plant. It's built like a tank.

I agree that all of the domestics are going in the wrong direction regarding build quality. They'll be able to extract a premium for their name until their machines become problematic and lose customer confidence. Thankfully, we'll still have top notch Honda and Yamaha machines to choose from despite their excessive cost.

I'll never understand why domestic manufacturers are willing to compromise hard earned reputations and build quality for short term profit. That's what's wrong with our modern manufacturing model. It's no wonder why the Chinese are handing us our a$$es. As our manufacturing quality deteriorates, their's improves. If that's not a recipe for domestic manufacturing doom, I don't know what is?

borat wrote:

They're not compromising, they're exploiting.  The people running these compaines are not the people who work on them, or the people who build them.  They don't care what kind of crap they sell as long as they get their money.  Hondas aren't cheap but GIVE ME A BREAK there's very very little difference in the cheap junk and the "pro" models today.  The very small differences are left in place to justify their channel partners.  That's it.