Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I've just spent a ton of time reading all the old posts on this forum from Jan 2005 till present.
Lots of cool info. And a few hot threads... I don't tend to repeat such an event in this thread.

I see a lot of Ariens owners on this site. But I've not seen those owners knocking Toro either.
So I figured it would be a good place to share my story and get some opinions to help finalize my selection.

I'll tell my story, honest and true, but it will sound a bit like trashing Craftsman, or maybe not... maybe it wasn't the right tool for the job?.

I've been shopping now for about a month for a new snowblower  and have come to some conclusions and have read a lot of  "Facts" or better put "statements".
I'd like to run them by the crew here as well.

First, my story and what I'm dealing with........
15 years ago, after getting into a very bad car accident due to the permant damage, I can no longer shovel the snow off my driveway.
So in a lurch that snow season I bought what I could afford. How could I go wrong with Craftsman? It was such a deal.

My driveway....
It's 150ft long, from the garage to the street, with the entire east side is up against a 6 ft fence on the property line.
On the west side, no easy access to get ride of the snow.
It's single width for most of it's length ( 10-11ft wide), except for the last 25feet, it's a bit over double width - 25ft wide.
The 1st 30 feet ( starting at my garage), my trailer blocks me from throwing snow to the rear lawn... there's about 10 feet of open space between the trailer and house. So starting at the garage, traveling north,  I blow the snow to that point on the drive way, across from the opening between the house and trailer.  I make a mound on the drive way to Que up the snow. Then as needed I work on the mound and  throw it to the rear lawn, easterly.
Then the next 44 feet of  the driveway is between the house on the west side and and the fence on the east side. So I start at the mid point of the house and go southernly, throwing  the snow to the Queing point on the drive way across from that opening to the rear lawn in front of the trailer, then once again as needed I work the mound and  blow that mound to the rear lawn. I may do it several times so the mound doesnt become too much for the blower.
Now I go back to the mid section of the house, and start blowing to the street end ( heading north) of the driveway making mounds and moving it to points on the driveway and eventually to the front lawn.  I can't use a plow, if I did, I would blow out my basement windows and fence.
And I'm at a dead end.. so I get the mother of EODs to deal with.... the whole front of my house is EOD, since I have to clear room for the mail box and for the mai truck to turn around and the double car width of the drive way.
I can amass 5 ft piles of snow with a 1 - 1.5 ft snow storm on my front lawn and on the rear lawn.
The drifts between my house and the fence have topped the 6 ft  fence  on a 45 deg angle once or twice.
The thing is the Craftsman doesn't throw very far, so on the rear lawn, it looks more like a sand dune and once the pile gets too big, I can throw over it.
And since it didn't throw far enough to start with, if I get too many snow storms I can have a problem if it doesn't melt inbetween.
And by the time the time I've made this dune, the snow has been moved so many times, it very compact and heavy and it's too much for the blower.
Been very lucky so far. And if I don't clean the drive way, with the melting and freezing we get, I wind up with ice and drainage problems.
So I have to get the snow off of the driveway.
I live on Long Island. One 2005 snow storm took me 4 hours to clean up, the other took me about 3 hours.
A few inches of snow.. takes about an hour and a half or a so. Never less than an hour's time.

So what I've been beating to death is a  25" 6HP 2stage Craftsman snowblower, which is about 15 years old now.
I'm handy and do most of my own auto work and home renovations,I can weld a bit and such.
All came in handy while owning the Craftsman.
Right from the get go, during the  the 1st year, I blew belts. I'm sure to blow one or more belts for the drive or the auger during a season.
After using up all the ones I orderd from Sears one seasons, I decide to replace them with automotive belts, which must of tripled my uptime between blowing up belts.

After the 10th year of owning this machine ( bought it new), I called sears parts, once again, to order some more spare parts  for stock so I can fix it when it breaks during the season and to my surprise they couldn't find my machine listed. After some discussion, the punchline was,  they said.....  "when a machine is 10 years or older, it's not in the system any longer since we do not expect it to still be in service" ..."and we may not stock the parts"  I quote.

So with the p/n's in hand I was still able to get friction disk and cable and shoes and some other hardware... all came not in sear bags as in past , but it was either YTD or MTD.. I'd have to go out to the workshop and look. All were correct and looked just like the original parts.

I've taken that machine apart so many times that the threaded holes in the sheetmetal were gone and I had to put PEM nuts in for the case so I could still screw it back together and take it apart as needed.
The front auger gear box is now ratteling around with tons of end play on each of the inputs of the three shafts. I'm afraid of that just come apart in pieces one year.
It's time to shoot it and put it out of it's missery.

The engine still runs strong, it's a Tecumseh SnowKing 6hp... still starts well. Just started using oil this year.
At the 10th year, had to replace the carb. Over the years I've had to unstick this, replace that, de-rust this to get something moving again in the "transmission" or drive disk housing. I guess pretty normal stuff considering?

So with all my problems I figured I was just over working this light duty machine ( or it's a POS?). So I started looking at the Ariens. A friend of mine from NH says that up there the machine of choice, and he owns, is a Toro.
I started reading that the Ariens don't really have the quaility they used to and parts are hard to come by and there are fewer and fewer authorized dealers each year.
As I looked around, everyone here sells Toro. I can't find a local shop selling Ariens. A few Polound (spelling) dealers.. never ran across that brand online during my research.

Last year was the first time I saw the HD ( the big orange box) selling Ariens. After visiting Ariens' website, I found that HD wasn't selling the better grade of Ariens either.
I have a bunch of good local dealers selling Toro.
After looking at both machines, the Toro's at the dealers and the Ariens at the HD, it seemed that the Toro had heavier steal and impressive braces from the outer ends of the front housing to the frame.

I do see both as premium brands. But is the Ariens that the HD is selling apple and oranges to the Toro's at the dealers?
Do I need to be looking at a better grade Ariens at a dealer?
Or am I just not seeing a good comparasion since they aren't truly side by side?
Again I read statements else where saying that the lesser grade of Ariens doesn't use as thick of metal, no real bearings-just bushing and such.

I've come to think I should buy a 10hp 28" snowblower to get it as far as possible and to deal with my EOD and Queing piles.
Smaller opening and more power = more power to push out the snow that's in the blades as far as possible. Bigger opening = more snow with same power =  less available pressure to push present snow out the chute.
I'd buy a 26" 10hp if I could. As it is with my present blower, I take 1/2 width cuts to keep the loading down with heavy snow.
I wanted the 11hp from Toro, but the auto adjusting scraping blade is getting bad reviews around here.... so two dealers say and they have the 11hp model to sell me, it's not like they don't.
And with the added price... ~$300 from the 10 to the 11hp.. not sure if I need the extra 1hp.. until I read that the 11hp is the OHV and a better series of engines from Tecumseh.  Being on Long Island, we can get 2 inches or  2 feet. Either way it can start melting before your done cleaning, or the snow can start to turn to rain.. in which case you better start cleaning before it refreezes. So it's usually a very heavy snow, rarely light and fluffy.
And with moving pile to pile to pile, it tends to compact and become wetter each time , even if it's not warm enough to melt.
So been thinking big and tough and strong, real bearings - no bronze sleeves,  so I'm not loosing nuts and bolts to stripping threads, and blowing belts and seizing things up. The funny part, I never lost a sheer bolt on the auger. My father as the same model, but track drive and a few years newer, and he always blows his sheer bolts.

So I've been drawn to the Toro, more dealers around and more service centers. 12months free financing.
I've been thinking atleast 10hp.. but still thinking about the 11hp (also better engine)... but the auto scraper and money keep bringing me back to the 10hp model.
Since I have a lot of spinning around, turning todo of the machine and of the chute ( kinda like a MA1A, I have to aim and shoot on the go to make the piles in the right place) , the Toro keeps my attention with it's stick chute control, over the fine and old reputation of the Ariens.
Every time the Craftsman broke, while I was turning wrenches and warming up next to the turbo heater, I kept telling myself I'm buying a Ariens.
So now it's time to spend a good chunk of money, and I've run into to the Toro during my research.
And honestly, if I couldn't find anymore info I would either be buying the 10hp or the 11hp Toro.
But as an engineer, the more data the better.


So,
Can I go wrong with the Toro?
Any long term issue with the trigger stearing on the Toro?
10hp vs 11hp?
Is the new  "automatic leveling scraper" a liability? (maybe it has todo with how much icing and heavy snow we get here?)
I see a lot of plastic on the Toro, my only real negative, problems?
(my plastic chute on my Craftsman never broke and for half it's life, my drive way was 3/4" gravel not blacktop like it is now, but that was the only real plastic "hardworking" piece on it.)

Sorry about my spelling, and writing. English was never my best subject, and I never can proof read what I write, I always read what I thought I wrote.

Not too much posion on those arrows please, " just the facts mam, just the facts".....

Thanks abunch and sorry about the long winded post, I guess I babbled long enough at the keyboard...

Bob
Long Island, NY

PS:
This is what we like to do during the summer...
www.tdr4x4.com/files/camping7.jpg
older, but more camping/fishing pix...  www.tdr4x4.com/dt/

And after the 1st snow storm last year, daughter snapped some pix after I finished cleaning and went to work...
http://www.tdr4x4.com/firstsnow2005/

.

Ramit,

Between the two I would go with the Toro. There always seems to be a new rash of complaints every year with the Ariens. Rarely will you see a complaint about the Toros.

I have a Simplicity. What was discovered last year is that the 9 and 10 HP Simplicity was really an 11HP. Nice free upgrade huh... It's more cost effective for the company to use the same engine and just put a different sticker on it. The Briggs engines a top notch also.

                                                                                                                       Dan 

                                                                       Dic mihi solum facta, domina...

                                                                       ( just the facts 'mam )

Hello BOb, there is a fellow forum member out there on the Island with you, who owns a Ariens Pro model, 1024 I think.

Toro vs Ariens. The better Ariens are the " PRO " models, which I own. The Toros use a plastic impeller housing, so that is a major factor. My 1128PRo has been bulletproof since November of 03. Im in CT, and chew some of the same snow as you, usually worse. My 1128 will throw snow over my F-150 4X4 no problem, and even over my neighbors stockade fence.

I believe 8 hp is minimum for a 2 stage machine.  The Pro series is only Dealer available. Also, dealers usuallt setup and adjust a machine they build. HD has timmy assemble it, and never start or adjust anything, even though manuals say they need it.

 My inside Guy informs me that Ariens has more impressive upgrades for this year. They will go public Mid August. Plenty of time to look and make a choice.

Feel free to ask any specific questions about our machines. Im sure the Toro guys will jump in anytime. I do Like toro, Use their mowers and believe they have the best Single stage machine going.

I have the Ariens 1128 pro and love it. My neighbor has an 8hp Toro and it has alot of plastic on it but he likes it. I hear that the Honda's throw very far. But I am an Ariens man.

snowblowers...thats my speciality.

okay now,toro was losing market share and so was ariens.just to expensive for most folks

result ...toro came up with a new styled machine ,no drum auger and lighter all over.still a good machine but nowhere what it used to be.

ariens ...same idea, they had to to cut costs and regain some sales.so they make a cheeper machine.however they redoo some and call them pro units and they are as good or better than they ever were.pricy but you get what you pay for.

in my opinion i would be looking at the simplicity -snapper blower,the simplicity has a better control system and a heavier duty handle.very good value for the dollar.

and there is a new child coming into the herd to. word is mitsubshi is going to sell there tractors and snowblowers here.

rumor also has it that a mitsu will eat a honda no prob. i have a little trouble with that one because i ahve always beleived honda was the best no question but folks in the know say the mitsu is better.

we are a mitsu dealer so we will know in time.

later chris

Ramit (Bob)- First of all welcome to the forumn ! There are a bunch of good people here with various opinions. Your going to find alot of pros and cons both ways. I think the real answer is Service and support should you need it. If there are more Ariens dealers near you go with Ariens, if more Toro go with Toro .  I agree with the previous post that Toro has the market for single stage machines but for dual stage, Ariens pro models (imho) are the way to go. Yes, last year we did read (on this forumn) more problems with Ariens. I think that's because more people  here bought an Ariens. I live in Huntington and I have owned an Ariens ST1236 ( 12hp 36" cut) snowblower for 10yrs. I bought it because I liked the build quality better than Toro. I do like the build quality of Simplicity but there dealer network is far and few between around here. I didn't want to be locked in to 1 dealer. Long Island weather is crazy, when I first bought my machine it didn't snow for the first 3 yrs, but these last 3 years I was glad I bought it. For a 100' + driveway I recommend  A machine in the double digits of HP. If you pick Ariens or Toro I don't think you could really go wrong either way. - Kris   

Dear Ramit,
First, Welcome to the forum!!  I commend you for having the wisdom of shopping and researching for snowblowers now, and not waiting until the first storm.  I did the same thing and drove the guys here nuts for a year before I bought.
For years I had a toro 7/24 and it served me well, way longer then ten years, more like 15 or so, (I really do not remember).  It is still working good, I sold it to a friend of mine when I replaced it last year with a new Ariens Pro 13 hp  32" blower.
So far many here have given you good advice.  If you call Ariens they will send you the new catolog.....they sent one to me last year WEEKS before any dealer had one.  I'm very pleased with my Ariens, but I would advise you to find an OPE dealer that you know/like/trust, and buy what he sells if he is good for the service after the sale.  Research, TRY BEFORE YOU BUY, if you can, at least you can see how it feels gripwise, handlebar wise, etc.

Again, Welcome....keep us posted on your quest for your new snowblower!

Frank D.

Thanks guys, seems I have some more work todo. I can't wait to see more input.

But all the the replies I've read so far still makes me comfortable with the Toro, and  still interested enough to see the Ariens Pro series and try and find a Simplicity dealer.
I remember reading a lot of pluses about the Pro series that made me so thankfull I didnt make an impluse buy last year at the HD... I was afraid the old Craftsman wasn't going to last the season. More spit, gum and bailing wire, and we made it.

About mid to the end of August is when I wanted to buy.
End of August is when the Toro offer ends.

I'll get to run it, break it in and go over it to make sure it's fit for the season.

Research I've been coming across on the internet is showing that this winter will be nastier than last... 2005 was just a warm up for your snowblowers.
For this eastern shore area, NJ/LI/CT and slightly futher north and south, snow staring in mid Dec, storms late Dec, more storms through Jan and Feb possible, ending in mid March with a real nasty snow storm, so says some weather smarty working on their Doctoriet and  very well respected on the board I read the info on.
"It is appearing as though there is a good chance of a superstorm in March 2006 that is similar to one that happened in 1962, 44 years ago. This means probably a very heavy snow for the East Coast, the worst of next winter and rough times for the coast. "


So I'll try and call Ariens to get a flyer, thanks for the tip.
I went to Simplicity's site, some info, decent chart, not enough pictures to see what I want to see.
I'll call them too.

Interesting, in reading all the great replies it was mentioned  "Simplicity - Snapper"  >..???
Are they the same, one bought the other or something?

My local ma and pa shop that is good and trusted ( also I think the only real hardware store left on LI, HD hasn't been able to put these guys out of business. I like spending a fair dollar there), is who I bought my 16 year old Snapper hivac from.
This is it's last season too, running well enough, but the deck is rusting apart and the hivac is just not hivac'ing anymore. I mulch everthing with it. Got the Nija blade.
The same thing happened with this B&S motor on my Snapper, really 6.5 Hp, labeled 5hp for marketing and pricing. So it runs the Nija blade great. This local dealer discovered it and let me know during one visit.

But anyway, a few years ago( 5, I guess)  when I bough the carb from him for the Craftsman blower, he said I should buy a Snapper Snowblower next, after discussing my problems with the Craftsman.  When I went down there early this summer, no more Snapper stuff, just Toro. And he recommended the Toro mower for mulching over the Snapper and didn't have any snapper snowblower info ... just Toro. Come to think of it, as we were talking about the Toro blowers,  he did say he can get other machines.. so I need to follow up with him about that. He had an 11hp coming in to sell me, but said due to the adjustable scraper being not so good, I should buy one of the 10hp coming in. But it was my choice, just his honest opinion.

If I can't find a good dealer other than the good/trusted local one, it seems I wont be wasting money with Toro, but I can buy less plastic if I want with another brand.
But I agree about the service and parts issue, and as a plus I still feel comfortable with the Toro.

The info about Ariens makes a ton of sense. They need to do what they need to do to save falling sales.. but to much "cheapening" hurt  their reputation.  And probably once it was known that Ariens had went to bed with the big orange box, the local dealers probably backed out. It just to tough to go head to head the the big HD.
HD has done a world of hurt on LI to the small dealers and smaller hardware store chains and ma&pa shops. HD sell Toro mowers around here, but only the steel decks.
So it's off to touch and feel a Pro model at a dealer.

No one has heard about the magical self adjusting scraper on the 11hp Toro?  Bad/good?
I read some threads on other boards where guys were so impressed with it, they were buying the ~$35 in parts to put it on there 10hp macnines.
But my local dealer feels different. No local postive feedback.


Well that's what so great about this country, choices... so many choices.
Reminds me of a story.... (oh no, here he goes again, babbling at the keyboard !)
I have a friend I met through work  about 20 year ago now. He is an engineer from Russia, now a US citizen. Ever see Moscow over the Hudson or what ever it was called?
Robin W. went nutz in the supermarket in the toilet paper isle?  My friend said that was just what it was like when he first went shopping here. He didn' t know what todo or if it was some trap, all that toilet paper, so many brands to choose from, different packages, was he actually allowe to buy it? touch it?. He froze from being overloaded with the choices infront of him and an isle filled with it and with no mob crawling over each other for it. It was a rarity that he could even buy TP... that's what they used the newpaper for after you were done reading it.

Anyway with that gem...
I must stop typing, my wife saw the novel I was writing for the 1st post and asked if I was working on work as I was  typing away madly,  I said no, SnowBlower research !.. she smiled and noded knowingly.

Good night, I look forward to more keyboard mashing and discussions.

And thanks for the warm welcome...

Aur, Aur, Aur... more power !

-Bob

Dear Bob,
At the risk of looking like I'm pushing you to the ariens, (which I'm not....) just know that the Ariens PRO series is NOT cheaply made...it is commercial.
The thing that sets this apart is the traction control.
you gotta try one to know what i mean. 
It is the only one out there that I know of that does this.
The wheels are free spinning so you can turn it like a ZTR, no levers or anything to do this.  Just this feature makes it worth every penny when you are talking about a unit that weighs over 300 pounds.

More later..gotta go.

Frank D.

Hi and welcome to the forum Ramit !

You spend a lotta' time with the snowblower... get the "best" you can afford... it will make that part of your life easier and likely more enjoyable...

I suggest sticking with a professional-grade machine... whatever brand...

"...Ariens don't really have the quaility they used to and parts are hard to come by..."    I  disagree... 2 years ago I bought a 1960's vintage Ariens...  parts are still available for it thru Ariens... I even got the owner's and service manuals from them...

...quality... yep... most manufacturers have lower-grade blowers and construction to get a lower price... but... there are top-end machines still made too...

Get to see each machine 1st hand... you already know more than most of the sales folks you may encounter...

Dave...

r
This is really the crux of the matter. This is not an engineering decision, it's your "Buy Cycle,"  and typical of engineers.  There comes a time when you have to ship a product - or  buy one. Try this experiment. You re going to be allowed to enter one dealership - and you can't leave it without buying a machine.  Doesn't that make you feel uncomfortable? I hire engineers to sell to engineers and this is common. 

The only local dealer is Toro. You can get free financing for a year. Go buy one. 10 or 11 hp won't matter. Spend less, you're on Long Island not Presque Isle.  Occasional storms notwithstanding, LI averages 36" of snow per season.

If performance matters more than anything else buy a Simplicity Commercial 10560E, which has a 24" opeing and 10.5 hp. 

BTW I measured the sheet metal thickness on my old Ariens (1970) my 1995 Ariens, and a new one at a dealer with digital calipers. It was the same.  But the old ones have really cool hubcaps....

The bushings used to support the ends of the auger are also the same for all three machines. All in stock at the dealer - $3. each. If your old Craftsman uses the same bushings you can replace them and tighten it right up.

Garandman wrote:
Garandman,
You are so right. You know exactly where I'm coming from.
I'm an engineer that went to the dark side about 10 years ago and starting doing sales and market. Mainly for job survival on the Island..... Been a technologist in the marketing dept of an avionics firm, sales manager, apps engineer and marketing dir for new products at the same time.
In my area of engineering, the engineering jobs alone were dying off on the island at the time, forget about the number jobs for an engineering manager or director.. you could count those jobs on one hand, even missing fingers.  I found as an engineer, I could do better than most "pure salesmen" in the specific tech world I work in and enjoy working at the front end level of the programs with the customers.

As said earlier, if I couldn't find any more info, I would be buying the Toro, that's just where the comment was coming from Garandman, you hit the nail on the head.
But coming here, I've been given great additional info and it's proven to be worth my time to take some more looksies.

Most parts for the Craftsman and Toro are only a few miles away, I only ordered through mail order what I couldn't buy asap from the local repair shop or parts I could wait for.  I did read the parts were available through Ariens, mail order.  Not the same as same day at the local dealer and with so many Toro dealers, better chance of finding a part I would guess.  So my comment was really addressing the local availability of the parts and the number of brick and motar places that carry the parts.
The two local shops that sell/service Toro that  I went to said they don't work on and can't get the Ariens parts, I'm sure there's more to that, like they can't buy the parts at a dealer discount, so they won't.  And if they aren't factory authorized, they wont stock the parts... not that they truly can't. But the main fact is, they don't.
Kinda forces the desicion if I don't branch out, basically as Garandman has pointed out.

I do like the idea of 24" and almost 11hp... I like the snow volume to power ratio that those numbers suggest.
I don't see a few inches of cutting width making a large difference in my problem.
I did not see that combination last night on there model matrix. Will have to look again.

I apperciate the comment about the Ariens Pro's at the dealers... not the HD versions...
I found one dealer for Simplicity, not to far away, in a more expensive part of town.
Again, need to really look at the dealer network one more time.
Hopefully this weekend.
The ZTR sounds interesting, haven't read a thing about that.


How about the Snapper and Simplicity connection? Any?

Thanks Gents...
-Bob

If it's good honest Toro dealers you have access to and little or no access to an Ariens dealer, then I'd be looking at a Toro. I realize that you can get parts by using the phone, internet, etc, but sometimes it is essential to have a guy with grease under his nails that knows the local conditions, is familiar with the latest service bullitins, to help you out with a problem. Simplicity and Snapper are now the same company (all owned by Briggs & Stratton) and also make mighty fine snowblowers, so check them out too.

As an aside, I seldom if ever here much about Deere's Frontier line of snowblowers here. They are very expensive at my local dealer, but seem to be well built although I have never used one in snow. Don't they work well? Any inherant problems? I also realize that Deere doesn't build these themselves, that they are (or were) made by Murray in recent years. Is that the problem with them? Just curious.

When I was shopping for a snowblower, I looked at (almost) everything.  It came down to the Toro and the Ariens both of which I felt were equal interms of price, quality, etc.  If one had a deficiency somewhere, the other had an offsetting deficiency somewhere else.  I ended up with the Toro basically for one reason, the "Quick Stick" chute control.  It makes it VERY easy to control the height and direction of the output which looks like something you can use.

It throws snow great, even pretty slushy stuff.  Yes, it does have a bunchof plastic but all indications were that it was well researched and tested prior to being introduced to the market.  There was apparently an issue with some of the plastic parts cracking under some circumstances (I never had any touble) but the newere machines have upgraded parts and Toro replaced the parts on earlier machines (mine included) under warranty (which includes pick-up and delivery).  In fact, the dealer who repaired mine was not the dealer I bought it from.  This delaer is much closer but didn't have any machines left when I wanted to buy one.  He fixed it with a smile!

One last thing about the plastic...it will never rust.

You should be happy with either the Toro or Ariens.  Depends on whether you like red or orange better!!  Either way, I'd try to buy from a dealer rahter than Home Depot as you will most likely get better service.

LL

"input... input goood"... "more input"......

thanks folks...

Had to go the bank today, so on the way back stopped at the local dealer again to ask what other machines he can get, as he had mentioned.
It all brewed into a very interesting BS session.

Toro has made it very easy for him to be a dealer and the quality has been very good.  He went into some nice detail, which I wont go into here, about how well they handle their dealers and parts and such. So he tends to stock a lot of Toro parts.

Last year there was recall on one part on the machines, he didn't experiance any problems through his customers.
But every machine he sold, he was paid by Toro to get back and replace the part in question.

He had MTD last year, he can sell me one this year. He's not stocking them this year and after this year he's dropping them and wont sell them again, doesn't trust the quality, even though the price point is good to meet competition with the local Sears hardware and HD, he wont sell them.

He never had Ariens, doesn't have any experiance with them. Wasn't and isn't watching what they are or aren't doing either. He had nothing to add about Ariens and didn't attempt to trash them either.

He used to sell the Snapper Blowers, but after some large holding company bought them, things went south and he didn't feel right selling them any more, he didn't trust the quality. He did have problems. He is so very glad to see the change of ownership and is excited about it.

He has heard all good things about Simplicity and now that they own Snapper, and B&S owns both, more so since Simplicity owns Snapper, he is back to carring what  they are offering. He doesn't have any models or literature in yet. He expects them in by mid August, maybe at the end of August. He's not sure if they will be marketing them as two different names or as one this year. He didn't remember what he had read, he ordered units for stock, but doesn't remember the details.

He has some commercial accounts that he has sold 11hp Sim/Snap's to last year as well as the 11hp Toro's.
They like both, but the 11hp Toro came with that auto adjusting scrapper. Some times when they hit an uneven surface and scrapper does what it's suppose todo, it rides up, but stays stuck up at that point, and the blower starts to leave inches of snow on the ground. So those commercial accounts favor the Sim/Snap machines they have due to this problem. So that's where his negative comments came about the auto leveling scrapper.

The dealer said that soon, the L head engines will be no more and it will all be the OHV engines. Such as it seems Simp. is only offering OHV engines on their model selection guide I read on their site. I email Simp for a brouchure. I called Toro for a new brouchure.

He doesn't have a price list yet. So I haven't been able to find out how much the Sim 10hp/24" will be, but their website says list $1600
http://www.simplicitymfg.com/s_commercial_snow.php
But from what he remembered of the Sim/Snap 11/28 (website list shows $1900) it a bit more than the 11/28 from Toro, and that's getting a bit too pricey for me since the Toro is $1650 or so, with tax, too much. I don't think I can push the budget to $1650 + tax.

The 10/28 Toro ~ $1350, with Tax and zero financing  and for all the moving and shooting I need to do to build my piles, I'm with LL, the single stick is soo nice. I did play with one a month ago. Very nice. Makes it much easier. Now I stop, do the spin of the chute, loosen huge wing nut for the elevation extension on the chute, re-adjust and re-tighten and I'm off... I'm always spinning the chute around for each pass, and tweaking the aim as I go down a section, if it wasn't for the two large deadman levers that come together at the center of thehandle on my Craftsman, it would be soo much worse. I hold down both with one hand and I'm forever tweaking the chute with the other hand..

http://www.ariens.com/pdf/Ariens_Master_Spec_Sheet.pdf
I like the Ariens 11hpOHV / 26" Pro model. 14inch impeller and 16" auger!  Their quick chute turn looks nice, have to try it.
The others are 12" and 14".

I know the Ariens and the Simp/Snap have remote elevation controls , beside the turning of the chute.
Still want to visit the Ariens dealer. Hopefully this weekend.
But my local, trusted guy, is making  too easy to buy the Toro.


-Bob

I would say Toro even though I have the Ariens 926 DLE Professional and like it very very much.  It sounds like you need the joystick on the Toro to help you better.  Ariens has 3 years warranty excluding the engine.  The Toro's plastic was tested rigeriously by Toro and I also understand it to be the best that can be put on a snowthrower.  I'd try to stick with an OHV engine.  Richie, also has a Toro 828 LE I believe, I may be incorrect. 

Hi again.
If it helps here is what I learned in my quest.

My old toro was great, and many like the new ones with the joystick, etc.  I know it is probably old fashioned thinking, but the plastic scared me.  The plastic on the craftsmans I was told by a sears worker break all the time. the plastics are probablt different, but it scared me, especially when Toro had a recall on some plastic.  Please, that is just my dumb opinion, I'm not picking any fights......

The joystick sounds nice, but I am happy with my Ariens......left to right (or visa-versa) is only TWO turns of the crank.  My old toro was 13 turns to do the same thing.

The traction control on the Ariens PRO models , and their great customer service is what sold me.  My Ariens dealer is 5 miles up the road from me.  The Toro/honda dealer is about 4 miles from me, but for reasons I'd better not say, I did not think I wanted to buy from him.  The Simplicity dealer is about 7 miles from me, but was so laid back that I had to beg him to sell me something.....he no longer is a Simplicity dealer.  Partly from my urging, a independent OPE small engine/tool repair shop here in town, (about 3 miles from me), is now the new Simplicity dealer, and is doing great.

Ya gotta like your dealer as much as you like your machine.   Shop your dealer as much as your machine.  Toro, Ariens, Simplicity all make good units,  With your careful shopping you will be happy with whatever you choose.

Keep us posted!!

Frank D.

Hi there Bob,

You are a perfect candidate for the Toro 828LXE.  You don't need the 10 HP model, and the 11 HP OHV version you're going to pay a huge premium to purchase it.  It's just not worth it.  I too live on Long Island and used my 828LXE all last season.  Toro's PowerMax feature is no hype and works better than anything I've used to date.  This machine tossed snow so well, whether wet or dry, so consistently, it really was amazing to me.  The power steering feature, which consists of two triggers, one under each handle, made blowing such a pleasure, I couldn't wait for it to snow. 

The trigger release also works when the machine is not running, so you'll NEVER have to muscle the machine back into the garage.  I'm not going to get into the horse power thing because I don't want to have to deal with that horrible thread ever again, but trust me, you will be very please with the 828.  If you'd like, feel free to contact me and stop by my home this weekend to take my Toro for a spin.  I'd be more than happy to demo it for you.  If you decide to purchase it, this is the one and only dealer that made the purchase a pleasure, below.  I've been dealing with them for over 30 years now.  I assume Toro still delivers the machine to your home free of charge.  I also assume that during the warranty period, they still come to your home, pick the machine up, service it, and drop it back off to you free of charge.

MINEOLA BICYCLE SERVICE
475 JERICHO TURNPIKE
MINEOLA, NY 11501
(516) 742-5253 

Everybody is providing great advice from their experiance.  The point that is most importent, as most agree, is buy a quality machine  from a servicing dealer that you know and can work with.

And, " Overpowered is usualy adequate". That way, you wont regret buying a machine that has to labour and strain to get the lob done in a timly manor.

 I agree with Richie. For the usage you describe, the Toro 828 LXE seems like a perfect fit. The combination of the Power Max, Quick-chute and several Toro dealers to choose from (for parts availability) make this choice easy. By all means, the Ariens and Simplicity deserve serious consideration...but I think once you try the Toro you'll like it. I have 2 year old 726te and I'm more than happy with it.

AZ

faithfulFrank wrote:
Ya gotta like your dealer as much as you like your machine.   Shop your dealer as much as your machine.

That is very true.  MM, also some good advice. 

It truly shows that we have a great family forum here.  Richie that's a great offer, and I hope you 2 get along with that trial. 

AJace wrote:
Thanks AJ.  If  Bob kicks the tires on it, he'll buy it

Man, you guys call yourselves engineers.....

This is the perfect opportunity to rig up a remote discharge elevation (it's only a cable). And why mess with a manual joystick when you could use a servo motor? The you could  have 4 or 5 memory settings and just punch a button and it would swivel  where you wanted it. 

And as far as factory offerings....a perusal of the Ariens manuals seems to show the tractor portion of the ST824 (model 924050 is the one I have) the same for the 8 hp 24" models and the 12 hp 32" models.  So I'm looking for an 11 or 12 hp Tecumseh and it looks like a 13 hp B&S Intek Snow will bolt on. I'm still working on the details for an 18 hp B&S or Honda V twin, I don't really want to get into engineering a muffler system - yet.

I would look at the Snappers and Simplicitys. And the Ariens and the Toros.  And the Hondas, if you think you might like tracks.

Ritchie loves his Toro. He put a different carb on to make it run the way he thinks it should. His experience from last year was extremely interesting, I thought.

Frank loves his Ariens.  He put more thought and effort into his decision than most people put into thier houses.

Others love thier Intek snows.  Would not own anything else, quiet and  powerful.  The Snappers and Simplictys have Inteks and easy turn.

Then there are the Honda lovers.

You are going to have a fun choice.  It does not look like the Mitsubishis will make it in time for your end of August deadline.  Good luck, have fun.

Mitsubishi. That could be a interesting thread.

They are having a Horendouse time trying to sell cars. The dealer in my town folded. Every other dealer on the strip is booming.

And now they want to market OPE? Sounds like Daewoo too me .

Mitsubushi isn't one company. It was broken up after the war. So a company called Mitsubishi selling televisions (Mitsubishi Electronics)  has only "Mitsubishi" in common with the car company, Mitsubishi Motors.

Mitsubishi  Agricultural sells tillers and tractors, don't see any snow blowers.

This is a fun thread to partake in.........you can tell this is the first snowthrower thread of the season.......

We are mentally starting to make the transition from mowers to snowblowers..........If summer is here, can winter be far away??

Bob is getting first dibs on our pent up snowblower views that have been latent for months.........Great advice from Richie and others on dealers, etc. 
It sounds like Toro dominates that area, probably a good first choice due to that fact, after checking all options.

I wish Garandman was around where I live....sounds like he could figure out a replacement engine for my old toro mower....!

Frank D.

I would just like to add to the wonderful advice so far that as Ritchie mentioned, you do not need to go above a 8 hp machine if the jump in price is significant.  8 hp will handle anything mother nature will throw at it.  I of course agree with MM that having a little extra is always a consideration and if affordable the way to go but that does not seem to be the case here with the Toro's.

I am drooling waiting to see if Mitsu comes out with a machine.  Competition only makes the market better especially if it is another high quality unit. 

I am going to recommend that you at least check out the Honda 724 WA.  Don't let it's light weight and size fool you.  It will move snow with the big boys and throw it farther in most cases and be a feather-weight in comparison.  If you bought it you will never regret it. 

Enjoy the hunt.

C

MountainMan wrote:
I would not be so quick to judge.  I don't have a Mitsubishi, or a Hyundai, but I do have a Daewoo. A $65,000 Daewoo. It's very nice, I've had it since October and like it very much.

Remember when we thought everything made in Japan was junk?  How did that work out for us?

I would not over look them because their name sounds funny, or they had a failure or two.

Like, Mints said, this is a great board because everyone has conglomerated all their views and ideas.  Each member has something different and is usually almost always willing to talk about and offer advice about what they own.   

robmints wrote:

Im refering to Daewoo, because the company went bankrupt, and the cars value dropped to almost nothing. Our local Porshe, Audi dealer sold the Daewoo's. There were articles in the local paper about people with 1 year old vehicles, that owed on loans double the cars value because of the value drop. People with Waranties that became worthless.

Mitsubish had a lot of scandall, as in not doing brake recals and such. I liked their SUV's, but while all other imports had huge growth, Mitsubishis share went down. And yes your right about the different divisions of Mits.

Or, am I mistaken, and another company went bankrupt, and people got stuck?

Richie thanks for the offer, that's real straight up of ya.
But in general we are a bit far apart on the Isand from each other.
I hate weekend traffic on the Island. I'm out at exit 63 of the LIE.
I try my best not to travel around the Island on the weekend, and stay local. It keeps me sane.

With that said the last two weekends have been spent going into exit 33 to see my dad in the hospital. Was hoping to take him home last night, then today.. hopefully tommorrow.   He's doing better, I can tell with this fine group I'll be getting "best wishes" for him, so thanks in advance. He had bypass surgery, with some minor complications that kept him from being released since the middle of this past week. 

So no blower shopping this weekend.

Richie is soo right on. I have kicked the tires a month ago on the 10hp. I was doing more last minute research and was 95% ready to go in and buy the Toro from my local , trusted dealer who I've bought from before. But during my last bit of research I found this forum. I found others earlier, but this one stood out as having great folks with good input to share, so I signed up and posted.  As I mentioned before, if I hadn't found this forum, I'm 99% sure I  would have been a Toro next week, just torn between the 10 and 11hp. That tear and looking for any last minute "what a POS" comments about Toro before I buy is why I've been searching the web again.

With all the good input, and having that 5% opening for the 2nd guessing, I was primed to be effected by good input. So all has been very apperciated.  So I will get some last looks in at the other brands.
Buuttt....
with that said , the discussion have bolsted the reason for my selection,  buying from my local dealer that I know and like,  and features others have been attracted to the Toro for the same reasons I have ( big one being the joystick control , beside being one of the top three brands to condisered).

Some one else said it very well on this thread.... for every strong point, there's a minor point not to buy one particular machine, but then offset by yet another strong point.
Each machine strikes it's balance. Enough to drive ya nuck'n futz.

I'm sure with the input from the group, one heck of a cross bread, of the perfect blower could be made.

With all the snow I have to throw over the distances I have to throw, not once or not only twice, but sometimes three times I have to throw the same damn snow, I don't want to be wanting for more power after plunking down some decent change. So I do want to be a bit over powered. Which was one of my nagging questions, what is  "over powered" for my problem, without going tooo nutz.

From the experience of those here,  it  seems the 10 will be a bit over powered.
Good!  I wanted to be comfortable with the size and not be sorry I didn't go one engine larger.
I've not heard on person say that the 10 is to small. I have heard buy as big as you are comfortable with and can afford... that makes lots of sense. To tell you the truch, if money was no object, well I probably get a rider with a blower attachment!!!!!!! That would really save my back. Get a cab cover, a hot coco dispenser... and mug holder. I'd be all set for the day.
 
Until I was looking at the prices and came here, I was thinking of going to 11, but the budget is screaming with pain at that point, and I would really have to know that it was worth it. Some pain is good, if it's worth it in the end. But again, not a word that the 10HP  would be marginal.  So I'll ask, any last comments on  the power issue?
Keeep in mind all my problems and a mother of an EOD,, is 10hp is more than enough?

I was wondering how the Toro's new system did with light snow. With my present blower, I need to go at full ramming speed in a lite covering of  snow, to get enough snow in the Que in the chute/system so the pressure is kept up to get the snow to throw well. I was very afriad that a larger machine wouldn't perform when there's only 1-2 inches on the ground. And the problem would be worse. I was afraid I'd either be shoveling, or running down the drive way behind the machine or having to buy a single stage for the lite snow falls. So this provides another strong point for the Toro. ( and what has me waiting to see about the Simp 11hp/24")

If it was the Ariens this dealer was selling, I probably would be 95% sure I was buying the Ariens right now, not the Toro.
All the good input as also reminded me that the place we buy at is just as important as which one of the top three we buy.

Thanks guys, I must be driving you nutz, half of ya are probably reading this and saying to yourself ," stop typing and just buy the darn Toro already" .
I just over think most things I do.

Next Spring I need to buy a new mower. But I think I'm already sold on the Toro super recycler... aluminum deck, the kickers-since we mulch.
We have a very flat lawn, but my wife likes to mow the lawn and is asking for electric start... so it seems we may have to go right to the top end to get that.

Except for lawnmowers, I haven't see any Honda or any of the other blowers advertised or stock anywhere around here.  The big HD has done a number of dealers out here...

Robmints you said "Ritchie loves his Toro. He put a different carb on to make it run the way he thinks it should. His experience from last year was extremely interesting, I thought."
You or Richie have to elaborate on that.....


-Bob

Hi Bob,

http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/6010-0-1.html

http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/4566-0-1.html

http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/7140-0-1.html

Having an OHV engine might make a difference to you.  I don't know about this year, but last year only the 11hp Tecumseh on the Toro was OHV. All the new Intek snows were OHV and the Hondas were OHV.

Richie,

Thanks, I'm hoping I get to go in early to pick him up and take him home tomorrow.
He is sooooooo hoping all goes well tonight as it did today and they let him out, he's going nutz in there.
If not I'll go in an bring him lunch and stay the day till after dinner, or till he kicks me out so he can get some rest.
They do nothing special for the lunches healthwise, and they've been terrible.
So we bring him up a decent wrap of sorts and a diet Ice Tea Snapple to break up his day and provide some relief from the hospital food.
All, blessed by the attending staff. With work, I can't get in there during the week, so my mother and brother and sister cover the weekdays. I cover the weekends.


That sounds like a good tip. RE the carb....
It's probably the same carb for the 8 and 10?
The carb is pretty cheap fairly cheap, 50 bucks..
That's about what my Techumsim (sp?)  SnowKing 5/6hp carb was on my craftsman.
If it is, gotta a p/n?


Thanks,
Bob

robmints wrote:
Robmints,
Ah, thanks for the links....
As I understand it , the same this year, the 11hp for the toro is the first engine after the 10hp to be the OHV.
But Simp and Ariens show all OHV.

But since no one has a new brochure , the final word isn't in. But Toro's website shows the same as last year, 10 and smaller the old Flat head.

And now your teasing my budget Robmints.... should I really try and stretch it for the extra 300 or so?
I do hear the low end torque is much better.... if I could buy an oil burner -  $#%*mins power snowblower I would.
But I did get a good 15 years out of my 5hp SnowKing old Flat head, and it's still running fine, just starting to burn a little oil now.... it's really just everything else around it.

ramit wrote:
Yes Bob, the 8 and 10's use the exact same carb.

I will pray for your Dad Bob, we only get one of them, pains in the ass they can be.....

C

MountainMan wrote:

April 30, 2002
General Motors is buying many of the assets of bankrupt Daewoo Motor Co. of South Korea, not including its U.S. sales and parts operations. GM will pay about $400 million for three plants and the company's sales networks in Europe and Puerto Rico.

GM says it will use the plants to build "a new generation of cost-competitive vehicles that can be marketed around the world." Two of the plants are in Korea; the third is in Hanoi, Vietnam.

The company did not rule out the possibility that vehicles built in Korea and Vietnam would eventually be imported into the U.S. and sold under a GM brand name. It will continue to use the Daewoo brand name in parts of Europe and Korea.

GM says it will honor warranties on Daewoo vehicles in North America. But as for Daewoo's 525 U.S. dealers and their thousands of employees, the future looked bleak.

A trade publication estimated there are about 7,000 Daewood vehicles sitting in port, waiting to be shipped to Daewoo dealers, who are already wondering what to do with the unsold vehicles sitting on their lots. Most will probably be sold at auction.

Daewoo entered the U.S. market in 1988. it sold 68,000 cars in 2000, its peak year, but sales plunged the following year when the company declared bankruptcy.

source http://consumeraffairs.com/news02/daewoo.html



Lots of good info on that site.  Looks like insurance companies would not insure the cars, and the residual value dropped a lot.  But GM took over warranity work.  Didn't know a thing about this until you posted it Mountain Man.  Thanks.

Good article Robmints. Very close to what I thought.

Anyways, Now back to your reguarly scheduled Toro Ariens debate

Hi ramit...

I wish a speedy and full rocovery for your father...  I know other regulars here do also...

Dave...

Yes, Bob, I would like you to know I will pray for your family during these trying moments. 

Thank you all for the best wishes for my Dad.
We got him out mid day Sunday.  For him it was like being broken out of jail, they all called me the wheel man.
They almost kept him, but I think they realized that it was gonna make things worse for him if he stayed.
He's doing fine and walking a bit. Was great all day yesterday and today.. a little breathlessness eposide at night yet again.
Been every night for the past week.  But he gets through it, they think it's a minor arytmea (sp?).
Which they've settled down with som meds.. but it just seems each night for a few minutes, this little cycle happens.

So I hope to take a ride either one lunch break or a weekend.
But it seems most dealers ( except for Toro) will be getting their machine at the end of August.
Toros are coming in the 1st week of August.

The energy has been great on the thread, thanks all....

Like someone said earlier in the thread, I got the advantage of everyone's pent up snowblower energy being the first newbee Q of the season.!!!!!

Again, thanks for all the best wishes for my Dad... and he's doing fine now resting at home...

-Bob

This is such a great gang, I think this will be fun,  I'm gonna start and ugly thread...
...The ugliest , but most usefull outside tool you have.

Just got a package from Simplicity.
They have 2005 catalogs for both Simp. and Snapper.
They sent me the Snow Blowers, mowers as well as tractors for both..

just speaking about the 2 stage blowers here...

The medium frame Snapper blowers look just like the medimum frame Simp. blowers.
So it's a choice of either Snapper Red or Simp Orange!
The console, controls,  bracing, skids, all look the same on the med size blowers ( both have 2 models).
But Simp seems to have a steel chute, the Snapper is plastic.
Neither have elevation on their med size blowers.

The large frame Snappers looks just like the large frame Simp.
The only difference is the consoule and the some times the chute.
In some pix the chutes are the same metal one, on other pixs the snapper looks to have a black plastic chute.
Those pix of the Snapper with a Plastic chute, the auger bearings look different than those of the Simp and pix of the Snapper with the Steel chute.
But I guess this all depends on how old the pictures are in these catalogs.
The Snapper doesn't brag about the Power Boost Feature which Simp brags about. ?
Hand warmers standard on Snapper, optional on Simp except standard on the biggest machine.
Simp shows 5 models, Snapper shows 4 models.
The Simp brochure is more technical compared to the simplier overview the Snapper brochure offers.
I wonder if they are targeting Snapper at the home owner and Simp at the commercial market.
So it seems to come down to, red or orange, which console do you like and maybe plastic vs metal chute.

Metal chute all the way !  Kris

Looks like that's the way it is Bob.  Snapper/Simplicity is offering 12 months same as cash. 

AJace wrote:
Thanks AJace, when I spoke to my local dealer a last week or so, he didn't know what the deal was yet and I couldn't find it on their site.

In new thread I read on here the other day, the gent complained about the mowers and how hard it is to select.

I don't see that shopping for a new blower being any easier.
  making me nuckin futz.

Hope to get a little tire kicking in on the blowers this weekend while I run out and get tune up parts for the jeep.

-Bob

I had a business lunch meeting to attend to today, just got back from it.
On the way there did some tire kicking at another OPE dealer in that town.
On the way back, hit my local trusted OPE and talked to him some more.

Walked out with the Toro Credit application. And a hand shake that I'll be  back in to buy the 10/28 next week.
He's not getting other brands in till September.  He'll order anything I want now. We spoke about the Simplicity 10/24.

The only trouble engine I've ever had was on a used snapper, finally found that the valve seat was lifting out with the valve after the engine got hot, made for hard starting.
But every other B&S and Tecumseh I've owned have been perfect engines to the end. A carb here or there, but that's it. So I'm not engine loyal. Although a OHV keeps tickling my fancy. 

But now Toro is offering a 3 year warranty on machine's purchases in Aug and Sept. But the credit deal ends in August.

My reasons........
The Exrta year they are offering, so the 3 year warranty closed the deal.
His major stocking of the Toro parts, kept me there.
Will not be stocking anywhere near the amount of  Simp/Snapper parts as he does Toro... this was a negative for a Simp/Snap buy.
Right now he has no spare Simp/Snap parts, but they have been on order. He already has the Toro snow parts in.
Their past great service and being a small family shop in our town, so I really want to support his shop.
The chute joy stick is so ergonomic and since I have a lot of turning and aiming while moving, seems it was made just for me.
I'm paying average price, but that's ok.. for $100 -  $50, I'm not going to go nuckin futz anymore.

Thanks all for helping with the pro's / con's and helping me see that all three machines are a fine choice, and that it's more than a machine I'm buying into.

-Bob

nice choice ramit.

i bought a 8524 ariens 2 years ago.  when i bought the ariens the powermax was in its first year of production.

i try to never buy  "new" designs because it is easy to spot the pioneers, look for the guys with the arrows sticking out of their backs.

now that the powermax is in its 3rd year of production and has proved itself in the field i am planing on trading the ariens in to the selling dealer who also sells toro.

best wishes

Congrats Ramit on a wise choice.
Remember to post a review after you use it for awhile.  We also like pictures of how well it works, etc.

wax that baby up real good when you get it......use good stabilized fuel....teach the wife how to use it, (if ya wanna).

I like blowin snow just as much as the next guy, but it is nice to come home after a hard day to a clear driveway that your wife just cleaned out for you.....

Frank D.

In other words, after all this research you walked into the nearest dealer and puchased what he had most available - pretty much like someone who did no research at all?

Garandman wrote:
Yea seems like it doesn't it.

I did a couple of months of research before I joined this forum and managed to kick off the 1st snowblower thread of the season.
Was just about ready  to buy the Toro, but wanted additional independant data.

I was talking to my local dealer about the simplicities when the extra year for the Toro's came up and the parts issues. So that was the deal closer for buying the Toro... and the fact I can have these conversations with the owner.

Today on my way back from another meeting, I tried to find the "local" Ariens dealer for S***s&Giggles , two towns east of me on an old interconnecting county road.
I know the road that Ariens gave as the address..for the life of me couldn't remember ever seeing an OPE on it in that area.
When I got there,as I passed that address range,  there was a closed up building and a vacant lot.. either way no one to talk to.  They need to update their dealer listing.

You know how many times I go to buy something, I stop myself and look around more and do more research. And then kick myself for not buying what I was going to buy in the first place. Most of the time that first deal is gone by the time I get back around to it. I can be my own worst enemy.  I've been looking and reading since last winter. Starting kicking tires in May.

Ok, where does the nickname come from? your favoriate shooter?

Ramit,

CONRATULATIONS!!!

Toro has a good reputation and I'm sure you'll be happy with it. Make sure you check in again with us this winter and let us know what you think about it after you've used it a few times. 

                                  Dan

I hope you'll post pics of the very first measurable snowfall you get and post it up, cause my tongue is hanging out of my mouth   I believe you made the correct choice for the countless times you change the chute's direction and Toro is a good snowthrower.  You won't believe how easy it is to throw snow the a premium machine.   

Now that I'm with this forum, sure, I'll be more than happy to post pix and my impression aftet the first snow.
Before joing this forum, didn't know who to share my enthusiasm with.

I never knew there were so many people that enjoyed the snowblowing as I did.
It's work, and with mine, a lot of it. But after it's done, it's nice to know it's done.

I played with my budget over the last few days, and if I give up up part of my weekly allowance, based on monthly payments, I can get the 11hp OHV.
My new job is saving me a a lot of gas money each week.
While I feel relatively comfortable with the 10hp, but with all the EOD I have to deal with being at the dead end, I want all the insurance I can get for deal with the heavy packed stuff.

Basically I have an EOD that's snow from the whole block and my EOD effectively is 55ft wide and a little over half of that is packed by the plow against the RR ties in front of  my house.

The more I thought about it and the more I thought that I should be able to come up with the extra 25 bucks a month/12 months to get the extra power.
I'd hate to have the 10 and wished for just a little more.

We went to Smith's Point outer beach, an off road county park where we can drive on to ocean shore. Went to watch the ocean and eat  dinner.
On the way back I found the missing dealer, he had nothing to show me. Didn't get his shipment in yet. He moved to a different spot on the same road, just further east.

Monday, off to the dealer to sign on the bottom line for my Toro.

Bob if you gut tells you based upon your experiences with the drive that you need to go with the larger machine and you can afford it then by all means go for it....

Nice choice BTW and yes please post pics if you can and stay in touch and tell us how the new big dog on the block does lol.....

C

Bob- Of course you know as soon as you sign on the bottom line it won't snow here on L.I. for the next five years. You single handedly killed the snowblowing seaon for years to come on L.I. (LOL)  Congats and good luck. - Kris

http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/9634-A-1.html

ramit,
There was much discussion about HP last year.  My suggestion would be, if you want OHV, or the other features the 11 has, get the 11.  If you are concerned about HP, look real close at HP and torque curves, and ask more questions.  In other words just because it has a number on the shroud, that doesn't mean that's what it is.

Kris , you so right, and sorry.. but maybe it will only effect my town ! Sorry, but murphy's law is very applicable to my life.

Robmints,
Being a diesel enthusiast, power is dear to my heart.

The thread started with just a study of HP vs displacement, which also  went across engine technology. So it was just a key hole look in to the subject.
As Highwind finally correctly brought up ..... Torque.

Change the way an engine breaths, and you have a different animal. Change's it's fuel and it's will be different again.
I've heard, but can not find any real hard published data from the factories, the OHV are supposed to build more torque earlier on in the RPM's and be more "torquie". If that's true than that's why they have more "HP" with less displacement. HP is just a result of rpm x Torque , with another standard conversion factor in the equation  to make a standard that we label as HP, a way to quantify the work done over time.

The $#%*mins engine I have comes in about 5 different power levels, all the same displacement completely the same guts. Just fueling and EPA ratings.... from 400ft/lbs to 1,000 ft/lbs... same exact engine no difference, just changing in the  fueling and rev limiter, the same HP rating can be achieved, but over 2 : 1 difference in torque, or the HP can follow the torque proportionately.

I was hoping to find real data in the that thread, but none, and due to the lack of real data from the factories, which doesn't make it easy.
Have you seen any  real graphs? As you mention I should review them, but I can't find them.... a bit frustrating.
Are there some links to decent reviews and/or  testing of the old L head design ( which is much like a flat head isn't it?, which from what I understand are known not to breath well) vs the more contemporary OHV design?

With data lacking, if I had to put money on, and I guess I am,  which is more effiecent, I would say the OHV is.
The only real data point I have now is that  it was  proven in the automotive industry years ago...  L heads (flat heads) vs OHV heads. Now we moved the cam up there too....

The Toro 1028 LXE has the 358cc engine with 1,200 lbs. per minute throwing power and the Toro 1128 OXE has a 318cc engine with throws 2,200 lbs. per minute.  The 318cc is the same displacement for the 8 HP engines. 

ramit wrote: OHV technology is more efficient. Call Brigg's or Tecumseh's tech support if you have to have someone tell you so. It's a hell of a lot quicker and less frustrating than looking for hours on end for information.

You're going to be all set no matter what.
Not many people buy a 10 or 11 hp snowblower in a region that gets on average 35-36" of snow per year.

Garandman wrote:

True. Im also the exception.

But chance Favors the prepared, and in last  10  years, weve doubled normall snowfall 2-3 times.

Edited, meant 10 years, not 20.

Garandman wrote:
Ajace, yup, I would suspect our friend Torque since it breaths better.

I have a 360CI engine that can haul ~21Klbs GCVW all day long,  my friend has a 360CI that can only haul ~13Klbs GCVW all day long, and when he comes close it , he's running very hot... I'm running cool.  We have about the same  HP, same displacement, but my engine produces twice the torque and run at about 1/2 the RPM.
I get 12-14mpg, he gets 8-10mpg.

True Garandman. But it's a very wet and heavy 35" that we get and I have to move serveral times.
Last year, just in two storms we exceeded that. And I had 6ft drifts in my driveway for 44ft, which wasn't the first time.
If it was light and fluffy and I only had to move it once..... your right, I think I'd still be ok  with my old 5/25.
Each time I move a pile, the snow becomes more "wet" and heavier and compact. By the 2nd move, the old 5/25 bearly throws 10ft, 3rd about 5-8ft..
After that, the machine just can't bite into it and throw it.. the machine studder's and stalls or rides up on it. My auger blades are straight and smooth, no teeth like we see on the Toro, Ariens and Simp. I think that'll be a major help too.

If the snow is fluffy, which it's rarely, it would go about 30ft with my old machine on the first move.
A few forecasts say last winter was a warm up for this one coming..... now that I'm  buying something with twice the power, they'll be wrong.
Murphy's law.... rule #268, if you've spent the money and  prepared you won't need it. If you didn't you'll sure wish you had.
Edit:As I see, right after I posted this, MountainMan and I see eye to eye.

Congrats on the new beast. I think it will throw the snow very well. Going with a local dealer that you trust is also a "good thing".

I think all the research will pay off with a good feeling that you considered all the angles and came to a decision that  fits you.

Suggestions:

1. You can get variable diameter, high quality pulleys that allow you to change the ratio of the impeller/auger system to traction system.
2. There's probably not much point doing anything to the traction system ratios unless you need a faster top speed or slower bottom speed.
3. Good belt tension can make a whole lot of difference.
4. Pick a forward speed that is as fast as possible that doesn't cause snow plowing or ride up.
5. If your slowest speed still is too fast take a smaller bite, if that doesn't work try dynamite!
6.Listen to the engine, you can tell when its working because its at full rev, if it doesn't then you don't have enough load or the automatic throttle is sticking.
7. With really tough EOD you may have to use a spade or ice breaker to get it into chunks that the blower can handle, keeps you warm

Glad to hear the good news about your father, hope he coninues to get better.

BTW, you didn't look at the Honda 928?  The GX series Honda motors seem to have a lot of torque.

I live 500 yards from the Atlantic as well so we get heavy, wind-packed snow that's mighty tough. Boston averages 45" and last season got 86" - more than Manchester, NH. 

The independent drive wheels on the Toro (if I understand it correctly) would seem to be a significant advantage over an Ariens, which otherwise is mighty close in specs.

Garandman....

Ok, your handle or username.. from you favoriate shooter?

I don't have a local dealer handling  the Honda's.. so I didn't consider them. Never even saw some one using their snowblowers around here.
Maybe I'd have to go to DixHills? I would assume that Honda's are also a bit more expensive?
I respect their product, real good engines. But no local dealer, so even though they make a very good product, I didn't try to research them to consider to buy them.

With all the turning I do, I like the trigger turning and I am soooo looking forward to the joystick for the chute that's on the Toro.
A few others now have the trigger steering as well. But the joystick is very different.
With the old machine, I spend a lot of time readjusting chute elevation (need to leave the handles and walk to the side of the machine to adjust elevation), spinning that chute rotation handle ( gotta be 15 - 20 turns lock to lock)  and throwing the machine around each turn by man handling it or by reversing.

Nibbler:
With the old 5/25 I had to be very careful in using what little power I had for the big job. So I am used to listening to the engine and gauging travel speed compared to loading of the engine based on density of the snow and filling the chute. So I understand and apperciate your comments.  I can see where someone who hadn't done it before may not apperciate those comments till they were knee deep in the snow. Then it would all come together.

Still every now and than I clogged the little bugger or blew belts. But I'm told the belts used on the 5/25 craftsman are tiny compared to whats on a real machine.  I never broke a shear bolt, but been through close to two dozen belts, figure atleast two a year over 15 years ( first year or two I went through more than two a year, until I crossed them to automotive belts), sometime the auger twice, sometimes one of each.. mostly Auger belts.
I didn't know there was an optional variable pully. Is that an after market pully set or a Toro thing? Your comment is the first I'm hearing of it. Wont know if I'll need it or not. What causes one to want to change the auger drive ratio?

I have a long 30lbs Iron rod with a flat spade hammered into the end... great for demo work and breaking up the ice. But what snow/ice would need that thing to break up, I wouldn't dare try and put through any snow blower I owned.

Thanks for the comments regarding my Dad, and yes every day has been better. Each day a bit stronger and further in his little walks. The night time episodes are gone since he got home too.. the very thing that was keeping him in the hospital.  I still say they were really caused by panic attacks. 

ramit wrote:

now we have my heart pumping...
now where talking about some real outdoor hardware....
ah,, along with a Dodge PW from ~ 1947...
WWII hardware.
Hardware on my wish list is a clean, rattle free, #matching Garand. And even though it's not WWII, an M14.
Also love to get a BAR,  Thompson 45 and M1 carbine.  Some eaiser to get than others.
One real good reason to move to PA.
The last of the real autoloaders, no plastic guns there.
Missed out on an bolt '03, but decided not to since it was too sporterized. But a good shooter.
Just haven't been able to come up with the funds to fill my wish list, it's an expensive list, but we can have dreams.
Other more important things keep coming up, like a new snowblower, lawn mower next year, mortage payments,  daughter's college which should keep me broke for a while.

Combat was an awsome show, grew up watching it, love it.
Ocassionally there are reruns of  the shows up on the Action channel on cable, caught it early a few saturday mornings in this spring.
A show with out Vic, just wasn't right.

""Hardware on my wish list is a clean, rattle free, #matching Garand. And even though it's not WWII, an M14.
Also love to get a BAR,  Thompson 45 and M1 carbine.  Some eaiser to get than others.""

Firearms, hunting, fishing, OPE and cars/trucks.

I have a BAR (modern day), the M1 .30 Carbine, still have the army issue 30rd magazine and it shoots very nice!. Don't have the Garand or M14, maybe someday?

Yes, you are in a gun friendly state, too bad there are not more. Oklahoma, where I am, is friendly as well. I couldn't live in the People Republic of Hasslechusetts or Kalifornia.

Now that we have fully hijacked your own thread, you can do with it as you please.

It is a shame there are no Honda dealers near you.  They love ice.....

C

ramit wrote:
It appears some of yall don't know about the CMP. You can buy ex-GI Garands and the proceeds fund youth shooting activities. They also have M1903's.  There are now John C Garand matches where only "stock" Garands compete  A "matching grade" Garand is $850. a plain ole GI mixed parts rifle is $500 plus shipping. You don't want a rattle-free Garand, though - if there isn't some play in the front handguard, they don't shoot well. Above all you want to make sure the muzzle is in good shape.

The best all-around forum  is at www.jouster.com.  The Garand Collector's Association annual meeting is at Springfield Armory  September 30 to October 2nd.

Massachusetts has more shooting sport competitions  than all other New England states and NY combined. Go figure.....

Garandman,
I do know about the CMP, but never did work on the details to take advantage of it. One club , years ago just when I was getting married put togother a qualifying course so the members could quailify for the pruchase. I think back then they sold for 300 bucks.  
Out here, there's nothing but Skeet and trap. The Rifle ranges only see a lot of business around deer season.
There rattle free and then there's rattle free. since most wont have matching numbers, and I'm only speaking from second hand reports I'v read, that some of them thrown together are soo bad and loose they don't function well. Lets face it, as good as they are, they saw so much history... some need to be put to rest.

I had a hunch you were very used to listening to the engine and knew about changing the load but better safe than sorry.

The variable diameter pulleys are after market and not a manufacturer's option. I have a vague recollection of talking with  a dealer or two about "powershift". That  uses a variable diameter  pulley with two "settings". If the torque is high and the pulley RPM is low it swiches from "high" ratio to "low" ratio and gives you more power at a slower speed. I wouldn't worry about it unless you want to tweak your setup . I do alot of short  driveways  and generally don't lack for power so horizontal speed is more important  to me. I changed the ratio on the traction system so that my top speed was faster. I also had to replace the engine and got an Inteck Snow 11HP OHV. I noticed a big difference from the 10.5 Tecumseh but it  is at least partially due to new vs old engine as well as the different  manufacturer's.

 The main problem I have now is throwing the snow too far at some times .

Nibbler,
Thanks for the info.

I've opt'ed for the 11hp OHV.
At the shop they've used both and said the 10 hp is great for what it is.
But the 11hp OHV is noticably more powerfull, and for what problems I have, probably worth the extra money.
I need the distance, ground speed on my 5/25 was perfectly fine, crawl and fast.
So I never thought that I might be wanting on the new machine.
We'll find out.
Two 11/28's are due in Thurdsday or Friday.. so Friday I go sign for my particular machine.

Congrats again Ramit.........

looking at the length of this thread compels me to ask the question................

What about those Husquvarna's?????    

(those who have been around for awhile know why......)

Frank D.

Hey wow!

I got 4 silver stars now and 1001 points...........who knew someone could have that many posts and contribute so little??  

Frank D.

I've jumped to a few conclusions and didn't look at them for a couple of reasons
1)No dealer is handling them around me.
2)The only place I've seen them is at Lowes.



It got down to that fact that the trusted dealer by me , in my town, family owned sold Toro, Snapper and Simplicity and only for this that really begged him he would sell them an MTD, which he no longer stocks  them. Last year was his first and last year of stocking MTD.
He didn't Stock Snapper for awhile due to the mucky muck hold corp that owned them before Simplicity picked them up and now B&S owning both.... he now feels they'll make machines worth selling. So this will be his first year with Simplicity and first year back stocking Snapper. So I felt I had a pick from three of the top 4 or 5 manufacturers... I didn't need to look much further.


All the pro's and con's offered on this nice long thread from all the good folks here,  helped me realize and arrange the priorities.. couldn't go wrong with any he sold... if he only sold Ariens, I probably,,, no I  would have been buying an Ariens.

The good thread Mountainman put together listing their new features makes them an even tougher competitor.
http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/17173-0-1.html
If I wait to see the new machines coming in Sept, I'll lose some of my Toro deals.
I think Toro is afraid and hanging the carrots out now to get people to buy the Toro since the Ariens has offered such competitive features.
Toro was a month ahead of all the dealer lines to be putting machines out on the dealer floors (around here).
The only one that beat them was Sears.

I'm very happy with the Toro and it's features for what I need and now a total of a 3 year warranty if I buy now, and same as cash 1 year credit.
I'm looking forward to early snow so I can try out the new machine and joystick.

So those are my reasons...

But as you say, those that have been on this board for awhile know... so what do they have to say? Thumbs up or Down..?

faithfulFrank wrote:
oohhhh....

lots of posts and reviews I guess.

this one thread alone, my first got me one bronze star..

I should get some extra points for my extra long replies, questions and general babbling at the keyboard generating long posts. Maybe even a record for the longest run on sentences.

Ramit, so you go take your pick on Friday eh? Well guess what..... the weather folks are going to change their weather forecast for this winter to "no snow at all this upcoming winter" on Saturday.

Good choice of machine.  Best of luck with it.

Ajace stirring the pot........

Let me tell ya,,,, last year there wasn't a snowblower to be had on LI after the 1st major hit in Januarary.
I'm sure the big orange box was kicking them selfs. They had their big sale in full swing trying to clearing out their blowers just days before the storm hit, the local HD's  sold everything out that night as the snow was coming down and all the warnings on the radio and tv were being broadcast.

By the second hit , you were hard pressed to find any that looked like a decent show shovel. I started looking after the 2nd bad hit in fear my old 5/25 wouldn't make it, there was nothing to look at.
I started looking around in April again, nothing to buy but used stuff at one dealer and nothing at my local dealer.


The one dealer in Hauppuage that I visited again late last week just took reciept of three Toros.
He's a much larger Toro dealer than my local shop. This larger dealer carries lots of pro mowers and heavier equipment. When I was there in April, he had nothing either except for his own and some used stuff. He had a newer design Toro 10/28 he used in his yard that he let me look at. He also had one of the big drum Toro's, used for sale,  thats freaky looking but in great shape.

I was in the last week of July at my local dealer, the one I'm buying from, he had nothing in his stock area except mowers. Those he'll have a few left overs of for next year. All his Toro mowers are gone, but has a few lawnboys, they have the cheapest looking wheels on them, looks like a wheels from a toy mower.

It's like the old times at my local dealer/hardware store..., there no other shop in my area that you can walk in through the back, stop and chat with the mechanic in his area and/or the owner - or walk in through the front where the owner's son always is.  Kinda frozen in time before all the signs "no customers beyond this point" .....


mrmom, yup my life is ruled by Murphy's laws.......

Ramit,
Ya did good.........you did the research and have a good buying strategy.  All the major brands have there unique features that have won them a faithful following.

I think Robmints said last year something like this.....There are a handful of very good brands out there that deserve the loyal following that they have.......if we all liked the exact same thing there would only be one choice out there to buy.  Thankfully, that is not the case.  Toro, Honda, Ariens, Simplicity, etc,etc. are all good strong brands.  What we end up buying is due to a lot of factors, such as;

1) local dealer support
2) Our own snowblowing needs
    a) big or small driveway
    b) a lot of sidewalks, neighbors, etc.
    c) who will be using it
3) Price
4) annual snowfall, etc
5) how long will you need it?
6) Features you like, (traction control, joysticks, etc.)
7) What good deal comes along.....

There are many here who love their Toro's, so you join a good company of people

I like a guy who thiks snowblowers in 90 degree weather.......!

Frank D.

I have a shop like that right down the road from me.  He sell Poulan, and a few Husqvaranas.  Last year those Poulan's looked pretty nice.  Walk in from the back and your in the shop.

Ajace,
there's another one you don't hear about, Poulan.
There was on shop advertising them last year, a few towns tho the west of me.
But never saw one in person.
I kinda thought it was another private label job of a MTD machine. But have no real idea who realy makes them.

Bob, I understand AYP makes them, but I may be wrong.  AYP is the same people that make the tractors for Sears.  The last I knew MTD/Murray were making the snowthrowers for Sears. 

Ramit, as a former aerospace engineer, I hope by the end of the Winter you'll have pictures posted of your stabilized shute controls - ie you aim the shute at one spot and it keeps it there regardless of the direction of the unit.

Of course that would just be the first step in the technology development towards the RC snow blower, or  the autonomous snowblower.....

ramit wrote:
One thing that I found out is that the output shaft on the under 11HP ( I.E. Tecumseh 10.5) was .75" while the 11HP and up is 1". Since I was replacing a blown engine I also had to get new pulley's hence the fooling around with the ratios to try and tweak it to my personal usage pattern. I've also heard that there is a big difference  between OHV and the older "L" head design. I've certainly been impressed with the way the beast is now performing. I didn't realize just how much a difference there was until I helped a neighbour who was having trouble with his machine. It was practically identical to mine except it had the original Tecumseh engine and hadn't been used as hard. Once I got it going ( new gas, turn the fuel valve to the "On" position) it worked fine but it's top speed was noticeably slower and the snow only went 10-20' ft. instead of 30+ ft. I personally think the speed difference was mostly due to the change in pulley ratios while the throwing distance was due to the bigger engine.

I am positive you will really enjoy your machine. The only problem I can see is that you only get 40-80" per year and that probably won't be "enough".

What kind of machine was this? The Ariens 8hp I have (924050) has a 1" shaft, but I'm not sure of the pulley ratios are different. I'll measure the older 5hp that has a .75 shaft, for grins.

The RC stuff is up my alley....

This was one of my best planes... but times got hard and had to sell off the fleet in the hanger..






My background is in power conversion, SMPS.
But the business killed my love for the EE work...

But the planes were a blast, one day I'll get back into it..
So I have a bunch of servo's and such hanging around in the basement..
Might be a good thing todo with the old 5/25 snowblower.

 Folks,

 I have the Husky 9027STE-XP, built by AYP For Husqvarna as well as Poulan!!

She has a Tec  9 HP OHV and a 27 inch Bite!!

Poulan and Husky blowers are ident except for paint colors.She weighs 265 Lbs, no lightweight!!

Triggers on each handle for turning, when squeezed, disengage that wheel and turns on a dime.

Has infinate speed control, the  chute control nearly as good as Toro!!l 16 inch tires!!

Lowes sells them or $1000.00 with a 10.5 HP flat head TEC engine.

I have not blown any snow with her, when I do, I'll do a review!!!

                                                                             Fred     

Ramit- What  club did you belong to ? Where did you fly? I used to fly RC helicopters. I used to fly at ex 63 off the LIE The name of the club was H.E.L.I. helicopter enthusiasts of Long Island. I had a a couple of excell's, a raptor, hirobo. I got out of it for the same reasons you did. - Kris

Kris,

Did you fly in that old airfield next to the coram HD?

I used to fly with and be a member of the Wing Nutz, a Grumman club, field was out at the Calverton Grumman site, just east of the grounds in a buffer area.

Started flying with the wing nutz in 1985 or so. That's when I first started. 

In the mid to early 90's I joined IMAC, I was Pres of the IMAC for the last 4 or so years that I flew. IMAC, Islanders Model Airplace Club. We had a few fields, starting at Davis peach farm in Mt Sinia, when we were loosing that , before I was Pres they tuned down being part of the Defense Hill assoc. We rented a old emergancy air strip at Gyrodyne for a few years. Then got rights to fly at the peach farm again after the fields were sold, but before construction started.

During that time I got us into the Defense Hill Assoc since we were going to loose the Gyrodyne field and Peach farm to construction.

So for the last few year flew at Defense Hill and sat on that board since I was the Pres of IMAC, and also flew al ot out at the Manorville field of the Skyhawks.. had  a lot of friends there and flew as a guest a lot and helped with a few  fly-ins monitoring radios.

Bob- Yes, I used to fly(for about 15 yrs) at the old airfield next to the coram HD. That's where the heli club is based. I was a member of the wing nutz (for a year) also. I used to fly at the calverton site also (I left that club because it was to far to drive). I have heard of defense hill but have never been there and don't know where it is. I got out of rc 5 yrs ago because at that time I lost my job and clubs were losing there fields it seemed everyday. I had to keep driving further and further east. It was becoming not worth it to me. I do miss it though.  - Kris

Kris,

That was a complete parrallel to me problems.
The politics at Defense Hill, the wing nutz were starting to push to all gliders and or electric.  politics at the sky hawks of sport flyers vs scale flyers.... it all killed the fun .... never being laid off. Couldn't afford it, and got the point it wasn't worth trying to afford it when I was back working.
The park flyers are very attractive... been tempted once or twice to get a small cub or something.

What hobby store did you frequent?

yes the fields lost due to all sorts for problems. Most construction and or noise complaints...
Even for me Calerton was such a hike, that's why I joined IMAC, very close to home... and we tried like heck to keep a local field.
Defense Hill is on Defense Road. The road of the old housing for the military that manned the old Nuke Niki Missle base out in Rocky Point.
The air field is on the top of the road, where the old command and control and tracking systems were. We had bunkers to deal with.
Next to the Rocky Point High School, is where the missles were and lunch cradles.

To get to Defense Hill, William Floyd Pkwy all the way north till it ends on 25a, make right, head east... very 1st traffic light, basically right in front of you as you turn onto 25A, you hange a left onto Defense Hill road and go to the top / end of road.. big fence gates. usually open of the field is active.

The field was active before they sold the old military housing as adfordable housing. In just a couple of short years the new neighbors started to complain about the noise.
I understand the field is still open and operating. It's a town field. Propert given to the town from the government for use as a park. The assoc was started, charter said that five clubs would make up the Assoc, this way it benefitted those loosing fields and no monopoly. The Assco takes over the grounds and convert it for RC and plane use. there were plans for an off road rc track that never took off. there are two control line circles. 2 -3 out of the clubs were always fighting, so finally the Assoc was removed and a single Club was formed, so now it's Defense Hill Modelers Club.  As the Assoc disbanned, our club voted to donate our treassury to the new club since we had no field our selfs... and that was pretty much the end of  IMAC.

 

Bob- I don't miss the politics either. We had it too. Every club has it. There are alot of clubs that don't allow helicopters. If they do they restrict the hours that you can fly and where you can fly it. Helis and planes can coexist together but because of the members at the plane clubs they can't. The heli club does not allow planes because so many airplane clubs don't allow helis. All the clubs in western suffolk lost there fields to houses. I got tired of driving to Coram every weekend and when I lost my job that was the final straw and now with what the gas prices are I'm not feeling so bad that i'm not still in the hobby.  - Kris

My New Toro Click here...

Posted some pix. Click on the link/pix above.

It's all shiny and new...

Not much to read in the manual.

Not  a word about Engine break in.

Any thoughts?

-Bob

Wow, that's a beast.  I understand engines don't need to be broken in anymore, but the belts do.  I would think the dealer already did that for you, if not I believe it needs done.  I like how Toro has kinda made the handle bars turned in to the operator.  The movie clip was unexpected and a shock, I loved every minute of it.  How about getting a clip of the engine running and the augers moving?      Does Toro still offer free pick and delivery? 

Ajace,
thanks,

Yes the dealer dropped it off and ran it for me and went over the machine with me.
I've been snow blowing for 15years, so I know the basics... just wanted hints from him on the particular machine.

The owner of the dealer ship did it himself, nice guy.
He had run it at his shop after I looked at it when it was dry and told him to take his time and please run it up and check it out.

Under warranty, they will pick it up. Toro isn't advertising it on their site, but buy now and you get an additional year warranty free, for a total of three years.

With the cheapo camera and it's cheapo movie function, I don't think the augers would look good at all.

You can change your sig now 

Ohh your right, thanks, done