Hi No Loss,what do we tell our customers when they ask us if bags clog and the suction starts to diminish. We tell them that triple filtered and self sealing bags do start to cause airmovement loss,most machines work on cyclonic suction principle,bagged,bagless,central vacuums,which means that the heavier debris is forced to the outside of the bag or container. The dirty air that excapes is filtered by one of 2 ways,either the filters inside the bag or a premotor filter and lastly a true hepa [non lifetime] replaceable filter.Which by the way if not changed at the prescribed intevals can void the warranty.Is that honest enough for you.
 
Some of us have been around long enough to know the difference.
 
I want you to give me your honest opinion,on the following question.
If dyson used a filtrete bag [coating] on the shroud and straitened out the high speed cyclones [ i.e.eliminate them all together]would the vacuum work better and have more airmovement for a longer period of time?.
 
B.T.W. my electrolux silverardo from 1982 measures the airmovement between the bag and the bagcage,and shuts off when it's senses a bag change.
Did electrolux make a big deal out of this[NO].Because they have had it since 1952 with the model 60. Is this a benefit to the customer, no not really all it does it saves the customer from opening the machine up and checking the bag capacity[this takes a 7 year old 10 seconds to do].
how many dimes,nickels, and pennies can you pick up in your dc 15?will it hurt the vacuum?.  
 
And i still say that the sanitaire 782/785 upright is the best vacuum out there in an upright,although it has a 12'' nozzle,and a smallish top load bag[remember those].and it's only 159.95 and a little higher in some parts of the country.
And yes it's got 2 motors,Sort of set up like an lux legacy upright which is in the dyson price range,it's the sanitaires bigger brother.
 
Why dont you ask  miele why they got out of the upright market? It was not because of dyson.And while your at it why dont you ask bosch/siemens too.
 
and im happy that i did not hurt your feelings,you cant hurt mine i dont have any
 
regards
 O.T.

Carl:
 
As always, you are a man of kind words and intellect.  But you missed the biggest and oldest criticism of all for the dyson products!  The exorbitant prices and mark up.  And the disparity among big box retailers for dyson discounts: Not 10 percent according to dyson MAP (and professed by dyson insiders here on the Forum) but 20 percent (and even 30 percent) by at least 4 major retailers now, even on the latest and greatest dyson models.  How can indy's, who are policed and punished by dyson on lowering prices, compete with these prices?  They can't.  That's fine.  They don't care.  They'll make up the difference on repairs.
 
I took Kenneth J's side on the invention of the Ball facilitator.  I still do.  And the fact that the court decision did not rule in Kenneth J's favor does not mean that he did not have the patent before dyson.  The facts clearly show he did.  
 
I don't think there was any criticism of the panasonic one fan motor used in the dyson DC07.  It's been in the industry for over 30 years.  What I said and others (Jimmy P/OT) is that it is the same motor used in the $59 Panasonic upright.  Recall some dyson experts called me a liar when I made this statement on the Forum.  It's common knowledge now that I was right.  As I said the industry professionals are the FIRST to make the accurate and valid criticisms of the dyson products.  Consumers, like epinions that you like to reference, generally take 6-9 months after product launch to reaffirm the same shortcomings and findings.  
 
Case in point: Recall I blasted the DC11 in April 2004 on the Forum when it launched.  Why?  Over-priced, over-weight, and weak power nozzle unsuited for USA rugs.  Dyson experts and lovers kow towed my criticisms.  Why?  Personal agendas?  Whatever their reasons they were wrong.  In October 2004, BEST BUY stores pulled the DC11 from its shelves.  (I was the first to report that fact here on the Forum before it even happened.  Several dyson experts and insiders called me crazy.  One even called the BEST BUY store in Woodbridge VA to contradict me on the Forum because some "local yokel" on the tele denied the fact.  Of course the local yokel would!).  By Feb 2005, dyson pulled the DC11 off the USA market.  I'm sure you remember all these facts very well just as I stated them.  Personal agenda/professional expert judgement?  Which is it, my friend?
 
Which? blasted dyson for 8 consecutive years for the worse in vacuum reliability in both canns and uprights.  No doubt the reason in part dyson extended the new vacuum warranty to 5 years.  No personal agenda for anti-dyson sentiment by Which?.  Just reporting the facts from their surveys.   No personal agendas.
 
I never denied the criticism of the HOOVER Fusion by CR, although it has not kept the product from being a popular seller.  I called it right at Wal*Mart and Sam's.  The HOOVER Fusion was a much better product for the sales venue at Wal*Mart stores than the dyson.  Dyson got canned, and the second generation of Fusions are now at Wal*Mart and Sam's stores going on the 3rd consecutive year.  Dyson is out.
 
Finally, since this thread is dyson DC16 versus B&D pivot vac, I was the first on this Forum to post about the B & D pivot hand vacuum as a better option to the dyson.  Others quickly agreed (not dyson lovers tho).  No personal agenda, just the facts and truth.
 
The next dyson to fall and fail is the DC21 Stowaway.  Awful excuse for a canister vacuum.  Dyson was too late to market with this cann and overpriced it by $250.  Repeat of the DC11 only 2 years later.  Just like the DC16.  Now for my final criticism which comes straight from dyson's own boasting!  How can 500 engineers make so many miscalls and product failures in such short time?  
 
Carmine D.

JimB:
 
When 4 big box retailers can currently (like right now as I post) have sales discounting new dyson vacuums (including the DC18 and DC21) 15-20-30 percent (and indy's can't due to 10 percent MAP) AND STILL MAKE MONEY, there are big mark ups on the vacuums.  You know what they are and so do the dealers who post here.  Why are you surprised and confused?  If I recall, you were pleased and puffy to have the whole piece of the dyson pie (as you called it).  
 
So tell us, how do you sell with these big box retailers and their dyson discounts of 15-20-30 percent?
 
Carmine D.

JimB:
 
How can a big box retailer/Indy cut 15-20-30 percent off dyson MSRP if it's a "slim" profit margin?  
 
Case in point:  The DC18 Slim is $469.  It is currently on sale at 4 big box retailers for 20-30 percent off (minimum).  Less 30 percent is a discount (lost sales profit) of $141 with a selling price of $328.  
 
At what wholesale cost does the DC18 have to be to provide a "slim" margin of profit (to you/Indy/big box retailers) with a selling price of $328?  What I'm really asking is:  If you can't make a decent profit with 30 percent off on dyson MSRP, then it doesn't pay for you to sell dysons.  And you already told us (several times on several occasions over the course of several years )that you are making money selling dysons (paying down your mortgage I believe is the phrase you used).  
 
To be competitive selling dysons, with 4 current big box retailers advertising in newspapers and mail outs discounts of 20-30 percent (what happened to dyson MAP of 10 percent?), you have to sell AT LEAST for 30 percent off dyson MSRP if not more.  And at 30 percent off, everyone is making money?  I don't know about you, but a 30 percent rake off MSRP is indicative of a high profit margin on dysons not a "slim" profit margin.  
 
Carmine D.

Carmine,
  If everyone is selling dyson at 30% off it should be rather easy for you to post several links as such...
 
Once again the fact is Dyson has lower margins than other vacuums that are sold in vacuum shops.  You either don't know this simple industry fact or are choosing to mislead.