Quote from Trilobite on 04/11/07 at 11:36am:

 
Hello Trilobite:
 
In the USA, the HOOVER company started in 1907 with the launch of the first HOOVER upright model (If you visit the HOOVER Web Site you can read about it).  Vacuums (upright, tank, canister, stick, and hand held) were HOOVER's mainstay product line while adding floorcare products like waxers, floor washers, shampoers and the like in the late 40's and 50's.  In the 40's and 50's HOOVER also made two irons: One was an aluminum and the other a stainless steel sole plated.  Very good ones too.
 
HOOVER was well entrenched in the vacuum cleaner and floor care products businesses when it added small kitchen appliances in the 60's and 70's like can openers, fry pans, blenders, toasters, table top grills, hair dryers, coffee pots, and even apartment size fridges and washers/dryers.  Mostly by buying out and/or partnering with existing brand makers of these appliances and using the icon HOOVER name.  Did okay.  Alot of these are still around and in use mostly among collectors.  All were quite good and competed with the existing products of the day for sales.  
 
The HOOVER company in the USA was and still is VACUUMS and floor care products.  For almost 100 years.
 
Carmine D.

Quote from Carmine_Difazio on 04/11/07 at 2:44pm:

 
 
They could take the Hoover approach.  Introduce a new model every month that is no better than the previous models.  Oh,  Also leave all previous useless models in the line.
 
Of course Dyson could also end up in the ditch like Hoover.

Hello CPro:
 
After 5 years, dyson is still a "niche" vacuum seller in the USA, although a very visible one at least for the time being.  It still has not broken the million unit sales in the USA for one year.  800,000 in 2004 being it's best sales year in the USA.  
 
While the Rhomba IRobot sold 500,000 in its first 6 months in the fall of 2004.  Dyson lovers demeaned the robot as a poor excuse for a vacuum (probably due in part to IRobot beating dyson to market with a robot cleaner).  Over one million IRobotic vacuums are sold each year (they don't count as vacuum sales).  The company went public in the spring of 2006.  (20 MILLION new vacuums are consistently sold each year).  
 
Cyclonic suction is a feature now of the least costly vacuums in the USA known as bagless.  
 
And the "indy's" (the vacuum experts) as well as the big box retailers (with the dyson line) are reluctant if not determined to avoid carrying the canister DC21 Stowaway, having been burnt by the DC11 cann.  
 
With the exception of a couple of outspoken "indy's" on the Forum, the rank and file in the vacuum industry (the experts) have negative views of the dyson vacuums.  Due in large part to its high price and underwhelming performance.  
 
One wool rug manufacturer and rug seller (in business for 20 years on the west coast) voids its warranty if a dyson is used.  Tiger21 posted the details several months ago.  
 
The Consumer Reports ratings of the dyson vacuums have fallen year after year losing ground to much less expensive brands.  
 
Which? rates dyson the worse in reliability for vacuums for 8 consecutive years.  
 
And dyson, in an effort to keep the product marketable, increased the warranty from 2 to 5 years on August 14, 2006.  
 
And a few details you forgot but I'll remind you:  The "dyson haters" criticized the use of dyson's air watts as the quintessential measure of performance.  And countered that the dyson brush roll was sub par for US industry standards.  Dyson reduced the air watts (you noted that yourself in the DC18) and "slightly" improved the brush roll.
 
The "dyson haters" broke the news that the DC07 used a panasonic motor that was the same as the motor used in panasonic's $60 bagged big box store uprights.  It was denied by the dyson lovers (one you like to quote often).  The "dyson haters" were called liars.  Turned out to be true.
 
The "dyson haters" criticized dyson's unsuited DC11 cann power head for US rugs in June 2004 and said with the high price tag $499 it would fail in the USA.  By October 2004 BEST BUY pulled it off the shelves and dyson discontinued it in Feb 2005.
 
The "dyson haters" in April 2005 said the Ball's ($599) price was much to high and a drop of $50 was imminent.  Everyone on the Forum laughed.  In October 2005 dyson dropped the price by $100 to $499.  
 
The "dyson haters" predicted in April 2005 that the HOOVER FUSION, a sourced cyclonic vacuum for $109 would preempt all Dyson DC07 All Carpet sales at Wal*Mart stores.  Dyson lovers laughed and said a lawsuit by dyson against HOOVER for patent infringement was following.  What happened?  By Jan 2006 after a little more than 6 months, the DC07 was dicontinued at Wal Mart stores.  And the success of the HOOVER FUSION spawned a HOOVER FUSION plus and a second generation Mach3 and 5 at Wal*Mart stores.  And NO LAWSUIT for patent right violation.
 
I could go on with more details and recollections (like Kenneth J's failed lawsuit against dyson for dyson's robbing of the Ball facilitator design that Kenneth J patented more than 5 years before the DC15 was launched) that you may have overlooked and/or forgotten but I think you get my point.  
 
BTW how's the Ionic Breeze doing at Sharper Image?  Any updates?  I think CR called this product exactly right much to your dismay and your support of it.  If I can synopsize the CR assessment:  Another high priced phoney product marketed to the public with falsehoods and fanfare at an exorbitant price.  
 
It's always a pleasure to trade opinions with you on vacuums and other related things.  I respect your responses.
 
Carmine D.

Quote from cprohman on 04/11/07 at 7:50pm:

Hi Carl,the reason for my thinking is the following,a machine that costs 500.00 plus,should clean and perform the same for 7 to 10 years before any major repairs,in household applications.
The problem that comes to roost is that when the customer gets tagged for 500.00 plus for a big box machine,and it's nothing but a hassle to get it repaired.It tends to turn the customer off from spending big for a cleaner again.We have this objection all the time,why should i spend a grand or better to get shabby service?
It's easier to sell someone a miele,electrolux,airway, the second time around.These companies live off repeat customers.
 
  O.T.

CPro:
 
Thanks for giving the dyson haters credit for being right.  You may want to get use to doing so too.  They will be right again.  
 
WRT the dyson's use of the Panasonic motor, the motor specs of both vacuums are identical.  The dyson panasonic motor is wired electrically to run in the opposite direction.  But the rest is same same.  
 
As I stated before, its hard for the little guy to get justice in the US courts especially when they are right.  
 
I may have you confused you with another on the Forum, but I recall you buying an Ionic breeze for your father and him being happy with it.  You were defending the product against the negative CR reviews, if I recall correctly.  As usual, I opposed your position.  
 
BTW, the US dyson DC18 has 200 air-watts and the DC21 has 220.  The DC07 has 300.
 
Carmine D.