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/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl General >> Vacuum Cleaner Forum >> Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only /cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1175484184 Message started by RAT on 04/01/07 at 11:23pm |
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Title: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by RAT on 04/01/07 at 11:23pm No Loss of Suction wrote:
Here's your equal opportunity place to criticize Dyson's products. No Dyson lovers allowed. What are the weaknesses of these new Dyson products? |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Mike_W. on 04/02/07 at 4:24am Hmm! "..for Dyson HATERS only" and not for Dyson HATERS |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/02/07 at 8:58am RAT wrote:
Dyson DC21 Stowaway canister: Weaknesses: Weight 23.05 lbs. On the heavy side for a Stowaway. Comparable to the 24 lbs. DC11. Suction power 220 airwatts vice the DC11 with 300 air watts. Price the same $499? Bin capacity .44 gallons. Dirt capacity on the small side. The slant position of the bin and shroud allows the dirt to "smother" the shroud openings. This can be problematic especially if the bin overfills (which is very likely since it has a small capacity). Filters will have to overwork causing clogging and then the suction to fall off and the motor to overheat. There is a reason for cyclonic bagless vacuums to have straight up and down bins and shrouds with max fill lines and warnings for frequent bin dumping. Form and style shouldn't compromise function. Cord length 16.4 Feet Very short for a canister. (Tiger21 was right on the cord length). Much too pricey at $499 for a big box retail canister. Clumsy on board attachment storage with hose and power nozzle (just like the DC11). Power nozzle too heavy, awkward, and bulky for side hang storage on board (just like the DC11). Will fall off (just like the DC11) and break. Power nozzle requires numerous back and forth passes over the same area to pick up lint and pet hair on rugs (just like the DC11). Probably due in part to the pivoting neck and "ball" wheel design. The combination causes the power nozzle to flip flop and waffle over the carpets without thoroughly cleaning. A short list, more to come. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by RAT on 04/02/07 at 3:42pm From Hour Blog: James Dyson and wife "Grew their own vegtables to eat. Even made their own clothes" during the lean years. James notes that as an inventor you tend to have 1 or 2 inventions every five years. It does seem like it took about 5 years for Dyson to develop a marginally decent brush roll. Perhaps the next big invention will be a headlight. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/02/07 at 5:12pm RAT wrote:
And it was the $6.3 MILLION James Dyson collected from HOOVER for patent infringement that allowed him to open the dyson plant in Malmesbury UK in 1993. Not the plants and vegetables his family raised to eat. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/02/07 at 5:51pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
And it was the $6.3 MILLION James Dyson collected from HOOVER for patent infringement that allowed him to open the dyson plant in Malmesbury UK in 1993. Not the plants and vegetables his family raised to eat. Carmine D. [/quote] And yet the Lawsuit wasn't until 2000 with the settlement paid in 2002, perhaps dyson has invented a time machine also? Sorry did not to intrude on the thread just amazed by some of the statements of "fact" that can be read here sometimes. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/02/07 at 6:12pm JimB wrote:
Hello JimB: Gotcha! APRIL FOOL! ;) Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/02/07 at 8:05pm RAT wrote:
Hello RAT: So, I think you're saying that for $469, the dyson DC18 Slim should not only have an industry standard revolving brush (after 5 years in the USA vacuum industry) but also at least a front headlamp! I would most definitely have to agree with you. First weakness for the DC18 Slim duly noted by RAT. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by RAT on 04/03/07 at 4:11pm The oddest thing with Dyson is that each "improved" model seems to have a higher price, less suction, a shorter cord, and a smaller dirt bin. While some of Dyson's features are innovative, some like the ball seem to be forced onto the design. I believe it was Dual who once said that Dyson ought to hire someone like himself to be a historian for the company to keep them from continuing to re-invent things that were available in decades past. I think they need a involve more women in the design of their products. I would recommend that Dyson contract out the manufacturing of the power nozzles for their canisters and brush rolls for uprights. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Tri-Star_Vacman on 04/03/07 at 5:44pm Why wolud anyone mess with Dyson if there's other vacs that can outclean Dyson? The Eureka Boss Smart Vac is a far BETTER upright; the Tri-Star is a far BETTER canister despite they use bags. People who own either vac don't have to worry about dust flying all over the place b/c all they have to do is cover the paper bag & toss it instead of empty the dirt bin. The Tri-Star is even better since it's die cast magnesium & NOT plastic compared to Dyson; it never loses suction as the bag fills & has a better brush than Dyson. :) Anyone that wants a Dyson is getting ripped off b/c the Dyson doesn't clean very good & the're = Fantoms. The Fantom Fury & Thunder were junk; now we have to deal with Dyson. Fantom's only GOOD vac was the Lightning canister; everything else they made = worthless. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Tri-Star_Vacman on 04/03/07 at 5:47pm Actually, bagged vacs are better than bagless vacs b/c the bags are cheaper than filters for bagless ones & the bag captures larger particles even smaller ones if micro-lined bags; bagless is LESS efficient. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/04/07 at 8:41am RAT wrote:
Like the "ball" wheel on the DC15 and now the power nozzle of the DC21. The dyson DC21 Stowaway's wheel looks EXACTLY like the GE upright wheel of the early 1960's (but about 1/3 the size). Not to mention that Kenneth J patented the wheel facilitator application for vacuums more than 5 years before dyson came to market with the DC15. Dyson already outsources the upright motors to Panasonic and others, why not the other vacuum components too. If dyson writes the specs correctly, at least the dyson outsourced components can meet industry wide standards. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/04/07 at 9:00am JimB wrote:
Pretty simple actually. Sometimes "experts" in an industry outsmart themselves don't listen to what buyers want and instead try to tell them what they want. In retail the customer is always right. It is a simple rule that us "experts" sometimes are to full of ourselves to remember. The simple fact that competitors have been much to slow to realize is that consumers who buy a dyson like it and recomend it to others. Telling them all the reason they are dumb to like using a product they enjoy using and like the result from is bad business IHMO. If you want to sell against a product you build up your own not beat down the one the consumer already likes it hurts your credibility in the consumers eyes when you go negative on something they are happy with. [/quote] Sound familiar? All salespeople use this rationalization to sell products that are overpriced and underperforming. How about the luxury car sales people: You have to be willing to pay alot to buy what you like! On a vacuum level, this was the rationale that retailers used to push Regina Electrikbrooms. A bad floorcare product and a drug on the market. But people loved them and bought them up by the boatloads. Seen one lately? Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/04/07 at 3:41pm Hi JimB,care to tell us your background in the vacuum business,how long,how many retail outlets,service centers, who do you buy your parts and supplies from, what the wholesale costs are, any on line stores,do business with manufactures, sell out of the country,a real expert sells vacuums by the pallet load............ or do you need permission from Dyson himself, before saying? O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/07/07 at 9:03am RAT wrote:
Hello RAT: Dyson gives new meaning to less is more! Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/07/07 at 10:19am RAT wrote:
In other words, RAT: Just because technology allows you to do something, doesn't always mean it's a brilliant move. That's a novel concept! :o Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/07/07 at 2:45pm RAT wrote:
RAT: Dyson boasts one third of its employees are engineers. If we accept the number of their employees as 1500 then 500 are engineers. Wow! Does it really take 500 engineers on staff to build a better vacuum. MacDonald's hired one top notch chef to invent a new meal for the menu and in a short period of time the "chicken wrap" was born (sells for a $1.29) and MacDonald's profits took off. MacDonald's has 50,000 restaurants in over 500 countries around the world? I think dyson should reduce the number of engineers to the 1 and/or 2 best from each country where it sells. Or about 45-100 total engineers. Then dyson could build products that are not "over-engineered and designed" and sell them for less. How? By saving the exorbitant costs of salaries and benefits for 400-450 top paid salaried people. That's a huge savings that could easily be translated into lower overhead and into lower product prices. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by guess_who on 04/09/07 at 3:49pm Hi, I would also feel lot more comfortable by way of sensing that there was more input from the rank-and-file female regarding the manufacture of household appliances in general made by anyone. Women are "expected" to use them -- and ususally do. Us guys do come up with dazzling ideas for things that many of us don't have to use much. By the way, I need some help -- would anyone, male or female, who has knowledge of LG dishwashers over the past few years and their longevity and repair ratings please send me heads-ups by way of my mailbox here. Please do not place this way-off-topic info in any of the threads here. Thanks, Venson |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/09/07 at 4:02pm The initial "buzz" on the Forum (never repudiated) during the VDTA in Las Vegas about the DC18 Slim (dyson-lite) was that it was a dealer exclusive until June 2007. That was WRONG. Several big box retailers have it and advertised the DC18 as a lightweight for sale for $469. Leaving the indy's out again for the sake of the big box stores. And it can't be the DC21 Stowaway canister, since HSN launched it several weeks ago for $499 and then reran it recently. PLUS some SEARS stores are advertising the DC21 for $499. Again, dyson disses the "indy's" and plays the darling with the big dogs. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/09/07 at 5:35pm Hi Carmine,we both know why they only cater to the big dogs,the indy's wont support them for too long. They cant sell the smart indy's a bill of goods,with the box stores they sell them in tonage[at the best price].You know that there pricing structure is set so that only dyson is making money. And the dealers[indy's]get to put out the fires. You can mark my words they will be gone and forgotten about in 3 years........... O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JD on 04/10/07 at 4:33am What people fail to realise is not all Dyson Engineers are working on Vacuum Cleaners!! They are constantly looking at new ways and new technology which does not always come to fruitation but something else completely different comes out of it! As we know Dyson has launched a washing machine in the past there, I'm sure some of the Engineers are working on a new version of it! Some be be working on the Digital Motor developing that further! Then there is the Hand dryer thats was launched last year! So all in all the Engineers are working on differnet projects not all to do with vacuum cleaners! As you can see Dyson likes to do things different not follow the rest! Why not! |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/10/07 at 8:03am JD wrote:
Hello JD: Dyson should pick a product and industry and concentrate all its resources on it and do it well. Rather than scattering its resources, manpower, and R&D costs on multiple ideas and products that diminish resources that could otherwise be spent on dyson vacuums. And in the process cost the consumers more with higher and higher vacuum prices. Dyson has struck out on all the non-vacuum related products brought to market: i.e., Airblade and contrarotating washer. And in the process dyson is slowly loosing its focus and dominance for its vacuum line in the UK. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/10/07 at 8:11am old-timer wrote:
Hello OT: Agreed. It was RAT who said many years ago on the Forum that dyson had to follow the Oreck model for longevity in the USA vacuum market. In particular, open factory stores like Oreck to service and sell its products. Why? Like Oreck when it started out, the US vacuum industry has not warmed up to dyson vacuums. Just the opposite. Dyson has alienated most of the "indy's." Oreck fought back and earned a niche in the US vacuum industry over the last 45 plus years. In large part through its own network of stores, which just so happens to service and sell parts for 8 other vacuum brands for every 2 of its own. And in the process, trades in and sells more new Orecks. Dyson has lost 5 precious years in accomplishing that objective. In large part because it scatters its resources in too many different directions. And in large part because dyson does not know and did not understand the US vacuum market. IMHO Engineers usually are awful business leaders and managers. James Dyson calls himself an "entrepeneur." Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/10/07 at 9:27am Hi Carmine,well said, just take a look at what happened to electrolux as we knew it they got swallowed up by a.b and eureka,all because the owners were not vacuum people but business people,bankers,lawyers,corporate raiders.Very few people made an awful lot of money,then bailed.Sticking their dealers in the process.Fortunatly they are getting back to basics,stopped the outsourcing,retooled the factory,and are making their own stuff again. Their reputation in the vacuum market in north america was ripped to shreds.Can it be saved now or has this b.s. gone too far? regards O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JD on 04/10/07 at 9:30am Hi Carmine Why should Dyson stick to one product, other manufacturers don't why should Dyson! If you say that about Dyson then it should be referred to others too! Other brands are in more than one market regardless of how successful they are in any particular market if it be vacuums, washer, dryers, fridges etc.... I wouldn't say he has scatter his resources at all! Dyson is one of a few if only the one that has the amount of Engineers and the investiment in R & D that many others don't. It has been commented in the press here in the UK many a times. His company has one of the highest investment in R & D! If I look at some of the products here in the UK R & D is non existant! If they are spending alot on R & D then they must be doing it with their eyes closed! I think because Dyson is different and does things differently, the way they work etc... people don't like it! It's about time we saw change, there is nothing wrong with it! No Dyson is not loosing it dominance in the UK for vacuums. If that where the case why is it the Dyson cleaners feature more in our electrical shops and are more likely to be demo by the customer here in the UK! They are on stands that stand out. Customers that have used the brand and like it, will go back to the smae brand most of the time. Yes not everyone here in the UK likes Dyson and I know a few people like that. Other brands are closing the plot probably market share to in the UK! Their dispalys are always bland! No other vacuum brand in the UK has come out with anything worth looking at in the last 10 years or more! JD |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 04/10/07 at 10:18am Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Hello OT: Agreed. It was RAT who said many years ago on the Forum that dyson had to follow the Oreck model for longevity in the USA vacuum market. In particular, open factory stores like Oreck to service and sell its products. Why? Like Oreck when it started out, the US vacuum industry has not warmed up to dyson vacuums. Just the opposite. Dyson has alienated most of the "indy's." Oreck fought back and earned a niche in the US vacuum industry over the last 45 plus years. In large part through its own network of stores, which just so happens to service and sell parts for 8 other vacuum brands for every 2 of its own. And in the process, trades in and sells more new Orecks. Dyson has lost 5 precious years in accomplishing that objective. In large part because it scatters its resources in too many different directions. And in large part because dyson does not know and did not understand the US vacuum market. IMHO Engineers usually are awful business leaders and managers. James Dyson calls himself an "entrepeneur." Carmine D. [/quote] I am thankful that Dyson has not followed Oreck. If so we would only have an antiquated vacuum that is sold at exorbent prices with free gifts thrown in so the consumer can justify the purchase. Dyson is about performance, not marketing. Give Ole Dave credit, he could sell Christmas trees on July 4th. Of course they would be as useless as his vacuums. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/10/07 at 10:28am Hello,would you get upset if i posted dysons wholesale prices on the forum? If I were you i would not bet against it. O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/10/07 at 12:46pm HARDSELL wrote:
Hello OT: Sooner or later the "dyson hater" critics come around to the vacuum experts' way of thinking. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Mike_W. on 04/10/07 at 4:29pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
This is the mindset of the U.S from the last 20+ years. The U.S. believes that a company should manufacture in one area-example electronics. That would mean that GE should only make large appliances and move away from aerospace and medical, or stay in aerospace and leave large appliaces. (On a personal note, they should work on the large appliance line.) But more than 20+ years ago, U.S. companies were in other areas and not just one. GE had large appliances, floorcare, small kitchen appliances, personal care, electronics, etc. The same w/Westinghouse. At one time they were successful at it. They could have continued w/the different lines if they worked at it, but they chose a different route. In other countries, the companies will manufacture in different appliance areas. Look at Mashusita, they market electronics, small kitchen, personal care, floorcare, etc. They are very successful at it. They also stick w/it. They work at making a product better, instead of discontinuing it. I believe that they do not look at "making the top dollar" as their criteria for keeping or discontinuing a product. General Electric made good vacuum cleaners, but they did not want to put more money into it and make better. In GE's case, if they are not the brand near the top, they do not want to continue producting it. They also want to make a high profit, IMHO. A company can manufacture in different areas if they are devoted to the product. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/11/07 at 8:09am Mike_W. wrote:
Hello Mike W: Yes, agree. As opposed to the founder's and/or CEO's ego and concern over their legacy. BTW, as a long time shareholder in GE I sold all my shares in July 2006. Why? The stock price has languished over recent years. Why? IMHO and others who follow GE, due to the many unrelated units that dissipate "core" product design and development, run up costs, and take away from profitable sectors. Read: Increased overhead costs from non-profitable ventures. Jeff Immelt, the current CEO who succeeded the legendary Jack Welch, has gotten a pass so far (in the last 5 years). (BTW Immelt received $30 MILLION in direct and indirect compensation for 2006). But that's going to run out. And I can't wait and give Immelt and GE the benefit of the doubt. There are too many other businesses and products to invest (gamble) money into that are more promising and immediate. At my age, time is of the essence. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Trilobite on 04/11/07 at 11:36am Hoover didn't even start out making vacuum cleaners! The branched out into this, then latterly made washers driers, dishwashers. Dabbled in toasters, kettles, irons, microwaves and fridges... Besides, the likes of Miele make good vacuums, good washers, good dishwashers, and good driers, so I really don't see why Dyson can't diverge. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/11/07 at 1:48pm Trilobite wrote:
Hello Trilobite: In the USA, the HOOVER company started in 1907 with the launch of the first HOOVER upright model (If you visit the HOOVER Web Site you can read about it). Vacuums (upright, tank, canister, stick, and hand held) were HOOVER's mainstay product line while adding floorcare products like waxers, floor washers, shampoers and the like in the late 40's and 50's. In the 40's and 50's HOOVER also made two irons: One was an aluminum and the other a stainless steel sole plated. Very good ones too. HOOVER was well entrenched in the vacuum cleaner and floor care products businesses when it added small kitchen appliances in the 60's and 70's like can openers, fry pans, blenders, toasters, table top grills, hair dryers, coffee pots, and even apartment size fridges and washers/dryers. Mostly by buying out and/or partnering with existing brand makers of these appliances and using the icon HOOVER name. Did okay. Alot of these are still around and in use mostly among collectors. All were quite good and competed with the existing products of the day for sales. The HOOVER company in the USA was and still is VACUUMS and floor care products. For almost 100 years. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/11/07 at 2:44pm Hello RAT: I can't help to think and scratch my head and ask myself the following question: With almost 500 engineers on staff, why did it take dyson over 2 years after the DC11 cann (Feb 2004) was pulled off the US market to reintroduce the cann with the DC21 Stowaway (in Feb 2007)? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Even with diversification into all things unrelated to vacuum cleaners, dyson could still have gotten a new cann to the US market in less time than 2 years. It takes 2 humans (with one doing all the work) to have a baby in 9 months. TWO YEARS for 500 engineers to come up with the DC21? Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 04/11/07 at 7:12pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
They could take the Hoover approach. Introduce a new model every month that is no better than the previous models. Oh, Also leave all previous useless models in the line. Of course Dyson could also end up in the ditch like Hoover. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/11/07 at 7:50pm old-timer wrote:
If you went back and read this forum from about 3 years ago, you would find two radically different sets of predictions. One vacuum pundit predicted that Dyson would never be more than a niche player, and that cyclonic vacuums would never capture a significant or lasting share of the US market. He also predicted that Dyson would have to adopt major price reductions in order to sell many units, as well as predicting that they would be dropped by various resellers, including Best Buy, Walmart, and Sams. Conversely another industry pundit predicted that Dyson would quickly become the number one vacuum in the US, that they would be able to maintain high prices, and that other makers would come out with similar cyclonic vacuums as soon as the Dyson patents began to expire. One of the reasons I started coming back to this forum so regularly was to see which of the two sets of radically different forecasts, over time, would be the most accurate. So far as I can see, what actually has happened has been remarkably close to the latter prediction. Perhaps in 3 years it will turn out that you are right, and that by then Dyson will be gone and forgotten. Not being a pundit, but just an observer, I have no prediction of my own. I will continue to drop by from time to time to see how this situation is developing. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/12/07 at 7:44am Hello CPro: After 5 years, dyson is still a "niche" vacuum seller in the USA, although a very visible one at least for the time being. It still has not broken the million unit sales in the USA for one year. 800,000 in 2004 being it's best sales year in the USA. While the Rhomba IRobot sold 500,000 in its first 6 months in the fall of 2004. Dyson lovers demeaned the robot as a poor excuse for a vacuum (probably due in part to IRobot beating dyson to market with a robot cleaner). Over one million IRobotic vacuums are sold each year (they don't count as vacuum sales). The company went public in the spring of 2006. (20 MILLION new vacuums are consistently sold each year). Cyclonic suction is a feature now of the least costly vacuums in the USA known as bagless. And the "indy's" (the vacuum experts) as well as the big box retailers (with the dyson line) are reluctant if not determined to avoid carrying the canister DC21 Stowaway, having been burnt by the DC11 cann. With the exception of a couple of outspoken "indy's" on the Forum, the rank and file in the vacuum industry (the experts) have negative views of the dyson vacuums. Due in large part to its high price and underwhelming performance. One wool rug manufacturer and rug seller (in business for 20 years on the west coast) voids its warranty if a dyson is used. Tiger21 posted the details several months ago. The Consumer Reports ratings of the dyson vacuums have fallen year after year losing ground to much less expensive brands. Which? rates dyson the worse in reliability for vacuums for 8 consecutive years. And dyson, in an effort to keep the product marketable, increased the warranty from 2 to 5 years on August 14, 2006. And a few details you forgot but I'll remind you: The "dyson haters" criticized the use of dyson's air watts as the quintessential measure of performance. And countered that the dyson brush roll was sub par for US industry standards. Dyson reduced the air watts (you noted that yourself in the DC18) and "slightly" improved the brush roll. The "dyson haters" broke the news that the DC07 used a panasonic motor that was the same as the motor used in panasonic's $60 bagged big box store uprights. It was denied by the dyson lovers (one you like to quote often). The "dyson haters" were called liars. Turned out to be true. The "dyson haters" criticized dyson's unsuited DC11 cann power head for US rugs in June 2004 and said with the high price tag $499 it would fail in the USA. By October 2004 BEST BUY pulled it off the shelves and dyson discontinued it in Feb 2005. The "dyson haters" in April 2005 said the Ball's ($599) price was much to high and a drop of $50 was imminent. Everyone on the Forum laughed. In October 2005 dyson dropped the price by $100 to $499. The "dyson haters" predicted in April 2005 that the HOOVER FUSION, a sourced cyclonic vacuum for $109 would preempt all Dyson DC07 All Carpet sales at Wal*Mart stores. Dyson lovers laughed and said a lawsuit by dyson against HOOVER for patent infringement was following. What happened? By Jan 2006 after a little more than 6 months, the DC07 was dicontinued at Wal Mart stores. And the success of the HOOVER FUSION spawned a HOOVER FUSION plus and a second generation Mach3 and 5 at Wal*Mart stores. And NO LAWSUIT for patent right violation. I could go on with more details and recollections (like Kenneth J's failed lawsuit against dyson for dyson's robbing of the Ball facilitator design that Kenneth J patented more than 5 years before the DC15 was launched) that you may have overlooked and/or forgotten but I think you get my point. BTW how's the Ionic Breeze doing at Sharper Image? Any updates? I think CR called this product exactly right much to your dismay and your support of it. If I can synopsize the CR assessment: Another high priced phoney product marketed to the public with falsehoods and fanfare at an exorbitant price. It's always a pleasure to trade opinions with you on vacuums and other related things. I respect your responses. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JD on 04/12/07 at 12:16pm It quite laughable that people think 500 Dyson Engineers are working on one project - one machine! Like I said they are working on many projects at once, ones that might never come to anything but something else comes out of it instead! They work in teams most of the vacuums cleaners I believe take 2 years from inital idea/concept to being produced! The team design different parts of the machine then bring it all together! There is alot of thought and processes that go into designing a dyson product! How many other companies go to that length! There must have been many reasons for the 2 years or so gap between the DC11 and the DC21 in the US. Dyson has in th epassed launched 1 vacuum a year in the UK give or take the odd year. Now the company is growing and product range expanding more models are coming at closer to each other! James Dyson wont just knock out a machine for the sake of it! He has no share holders to please! He just wants to design products that work better! Yes sometimes there are problems along the way! One being the brush roll in the US market! At least he and his team are prepared to be differnet and try things out. One thing is the brush rolls Dyson has on his DC15, DC17, DC18 and DC21 ranges now is very similuar to the brush rolls that are on the DC01, DC04, DC07, and DC14 in the UK that have no clutch system just belt drive! |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/12/07 at 12:37pm cprohman wrote:
If you went back and read this forum from about 3 years ago, you would find two radically different sets of predictions. One vacuum pundit predicted that Dyson would never be more than a niche player, and that cyclonic vacuums would never capture a significant or lasting share of the US market. He also predicted that Dyson would have to adopt major price reductions in order to sell many units, as well as predicting that they would be dropped by various resellers, including Best Buy, Walmart, and Sams. Conversely another industry pundit predicted that Dyson would quickly become the number one vacuum in the US, that they would be able to maintain high prices, and that other makers would come out with similar cyclonic vacuums as soon as the Dyson patents began to expire. One of the reasons I started coming back to this forum so regularly was to see which of the two sets of radically different forecasts, over time, would be the most accurate. So far as I can see, what actually has happened has been remarkably close to the latter prediction. Perhaps in 3 years it will turn out that you are right, and that by then Dyson will be gone and forgotten. Not being a pundit, but just an observer, I have no prediction of my own. I will continue to drop by from time to time to see how this situation is developing.[/quote] Hi Carl,the reason for my thinking is the following,a machine that costs 500.00 plus,should clean and perform the same for 7 to 10 years before any major repairs,in household applications. The problem that comes to roost is that when the customer gets tagged for 500.00 plus for a big box machine,and it's nothing but a hassle to get it repaired.It tends to turn the customer off from spending big for a cleaner again.We have this objection all the time,why should i spend a grand or better to get shabby service? It's easier to sell someone a miele,electrolux,airway, the second time around.These companies live off repeat customers. O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/12/07 at 5:27pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
I recognize that no one pundit is right all the time, and that at times the "Dyson hater" has been correct. That's what makes the market developments interesting and entertaining. I'll only respond to a few points: 1. As an engineer, I can assure you that I still believe that Air-watts is by far the best measurement of suction power, and far superior to either lift, cfm, or air speed. Air-watts in a measurement of energy, and the work-potential of the airflow, and not just a measurement of a transient state. The DC07 remains the upright Dyson with the most suction power, and it is comparable to most bagged vacs with clean bags. Later Dysons all seem to have sub-par airflow, and would not be a good choice for cleaning with tools. Dyson recognized this, and reduced the size of the plumbing. This makes the air speed higher, which makes it "seem" to have more suction, but really just hides the lack of Airwatts. I don't know the air-watts on the DC21, but I hope they are higher than the DC07 - a canister inherently needs a lot of suction power. Perhaps in time we will discover that cyclonic airflow is a less energy-efficient way of cleaning air than with bags; it certainly is true that it's a noisier way, and noise is a form of energy loss. 2. I thought that just the opposite was shown with regard to the motor in the DC07. My understanding is that while the motor in the DC07 is indeed a Panasonic, it is definitely not the one used in the $60 Panasonic uprights, and in fact rotates in the opposite direction. As I recall, it was also shown that Panasonic has an excellent reputation for quality, value motors, and that the consensus was that the Panasonic was a good choice. 3. In patent court, as you point out, Kenneth J lost. This means that it was shown that his invention was substantially different than the Dyson version, and that Dyson did not "rob" his invention, but invented something different. 4. Regarding the Ionic Breeze, you must be confusing me with someone else. I have long maintained that Air-ionizers without fans are not effective room cleaners, though they may be effective room deoderizors, especially if they emit a significant amount of ozone. Ozone is an extremely powerful oxidizing agent, and odor remover, but is considered dangerous to breath. There used to be a sister website to this one called "whatsthebest-aircleaner.com", on which some 5 years ago I warned that this type of cleaner was not a good choice, and I recommended HEPA filtration as the best solution for allergy sufferers. My home has multiple Honeywell HEPA air cleaners in it, and has had for years. I have one at the office as well. An ionizing air cleaner with a fan would be significantly more effective that one without a fan, in my opinion, but you would still have to carefully watch the amount of ozone emitted before I would consider it "safe". |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/12/07 at 5:40pm CPro: Thanks for giving the dyson haters credit for being right. You may want to get use to doing so too. They will be right again. WRT the dyson's use of the Panasonic motor, the motor specs of both vacuums are identical. The dyson panasonic motor is wired electrically to run in the opposite direction. But the rest is same same. As I stated before, its hard for the little guy to get justice in the US courts especially when they are right. I may have you confused you with another on the Forum, but I recall you buying an Ionic breeze for your father and him being happy with it. You were defending the product against the negative CR reviews, if I recall correctly. As usual, I opposed your position. BTW, the US dyson DC18 has 200 air-watts and the DC21 has 220. The DC07 has 300. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/12/07 at 6:03pm It is even harder for the little guy to get justice in the courts if they are wrong. I don't know much about that case, except that both you and he reported that he lost, and that the case wasn't worth appealing. Your memory regarding the Ionic Breeze is at least partially correct. My father does own one, and he is, or was, happy with it, but I certainly never bought it, nor have I ever had anything positive to say about it. I did buy an Ionic Air Cleaner once, about 25 years ago, from a company called "DAK", later famous for their popularizing the home bread machine. That tiny cleaner must have provided some cleaning, because what it did do was to cause dirt particles in the vacinity of the machine to stick to the wall, leaving a black spot on the wall. After using it awhile, it became apparent it didn't do anything useful, however, so I ceased using it. It was about 8 inches tall, and here's a picture of it: http://www.dak.com/images/newproducts/airionizeryellow.gif As for the airwatts, the 220 watt number for the DC21 is very low. Most canisters are at least 375 airwatts, and some are over 400. I don't think a product with only 220 airwatts will be competitive. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/12/07 at 9:51pm cprohman wrote:
cprohman wrote:
I think the first is a given (IMHO) and the second will soon be (maybe even in shorter time than the DC11 cann). As the saying goes: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/13/07 at 1:16pm I don't think its a given at all. For example, the DC11 I believe had 330 Airwats, a number comparable to many other canisters, and significantly more than most bagged canisters would produce with a full bag. The DC11 clearly shows that a 2-stage cyclonic system can be designed that doesn't use up excessive power. It is interesting to watch as the airwatts continue to drop in each sucessive generation, rather than improving. Part of it, I presume, is that the fan motor size is reduced to allow for a power head. That would account for the loss of perhaps 50 Airwatts, so a drop to 280 Airwatts wouldn't have surprised me. The drop all the way to 220 Airwatts is a surprise, though. What did Dyson gain in exchange for those airwatts? Quietness? Size? Weight? Noise? |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by mmc on 04/13/07 at 1:31pm FYI - DC11 had 220 airwatts. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/13/07 at 1:46pm It did? I must have written the number down wrong. Sorry about that. Is my number of 270 correct for the DC07? Again, that's a respectable number for an upright, if correct. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/13/07 at 2:46pm DC07 has 300 Air Watts, the DC14 270. But you would never know now. Why? Dyson scrubbed the USA Web site and technical specs on these models to eliminate the A-W info. Slick! Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/13/07 at 2:59pm mmc wrote:
The DC11 is no longer on the US Web site. No longer in the US. On the UK site, dyson says the DC11 has 275 Air-watts. Not 220. Not that I'm saying you are lying Matt, but before I believe the 220 number, I would have to see an authoritative source even a dyson one if you have it. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/13/07 at 3:04pm Not releasing airwatts numbers in not a new idea. Last time I visited the Oreck website, I couldn't find any mention of airwatts, either. Instead Oreck introduced non-standard measurements, such as moves air at over 100 mph. I tried to compute an estimate for airwatts for the Oreck from the information they did give, and came up with a remarkably low number. Hoover is another company that tends to release non-valuable, non-comparable performance numbers, such as their infamous cleaning performance per amp number. In fact very few vacuum makers seem to want to release airwatts. Interestingly, by contrast, central vacuum makers usually do seem to release it. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/13/07 at 3:47pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
The DC11 is no longer on the US Web site. No longer in the US. On the UK site, dyson says the DC11 has 275 Air-watts. Not 220. Not that I'm saying you are lying Matt, but before I believe the 220 number, I would have to see an authoritative source even a dyson one if you have it. Carmine D. [/quote] A machine from the UK will always have more Airwatts/power than a comparable machine here. It has to do with power supply and how machines are made for about twice as much electricity that is flowing into it. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/13/07 at 7:58pm UK dyson air-watts is a "moot" point. Let's stick to comparing US dyson models' air watts. From 300 on the DC07 (April 2002) to 200 on the DC18 dyson lite (Feb 2007) and 220 on the DC21 (feb 2007). Coversion of air-watts back and forth from UK to US is irrelevant in this comparison. Who cares what the UK air watts for US dyson model purchases and usage. The point that's being made is that dyson has consistently REDUCED motor performance as measured by air watts with each subsequent US dyson model AND in the process raised the US retail prices. Simple point to comprehend. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/14/07 at 9:20am Carmine_Difazio wrote:
cprohman wrote:
I think the first is a given (IMHO) and the second will soon be (maybe even in shorter time than the DC11 cann). As the saying goes: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Carmine D. [/quote] I for one and a few other strong indy's that i know are quite happy that the latest dyson canister is in the 500.00 range.When consumers are shopping at that price point,they start to shop and have to see what else is out there at this price range.There are much better machines out there in this price range,4 that come to mind off the top of my head are the aerus/electrolux classic,bosch formula,miele classic series,riccar rc series.And even in upright pricing,dysons up against some real world class machines.The long green trainride for dyson's allmost over........... O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/14/07 at 11:15am Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Kind of funny, but you were the one that brought up what airwatts were stated on the UK site for UK machines. No need to throw a tantrum because the fact did not support the argument you were spinning and you did not know the difference. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/14/07 at 12:26pm JimB wrote:
Hey JimB: Skirting the real issue? After all the hullabaloo that dyson and its fans made over air-watts, they have suddenly done a reversal. Dyson has more to worry about than srubbing the air-watts specs off its US Web site. old-timer wrote:
OT is exactly right on this issue which you and dyson avoid. Dyson is pricing itself right out of the US vacuum market. Sad, with 500 engineers, dyson can't seem to launch a worthy US vacuum at the right price for the US market. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 04/14/07 at 9:38pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Sounds like Hoover. They didn't launch a worthy in the past 20 years (or more) and look how they folded. I do not know how many engineers they had but they were useless at designing vacuums. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/14/07 at 9:55pm HARDSELL wrote:
Hello HS: Sounds like you too are skirting the real issue of OT's post which says dyson is pricing itself out of the US vacuum market. One particular self professed dyson expert always maintained that the DC07 ($399) is a far superior dyson to the DC14 ($429), DC15 ($499), DC17 ($549) and DC18 ($469). Going strictly by air-watts, I would have to agree with this conclusion. And I understand now why he consistently said it. Carmine D. old-timer wrote:
These price points ($500) and this sales venue (indy's) are not HOOVER's and haven't been for decades. Hoover excelled and still does at the $300 and below price points at the big box retailers. They are not dyson's forte either: The price point is dyson's ($500) but not the sales venue (indy's). Dyson is a hybrid marketeer. It tried to carve out a luxury vacuum market (in price only) in the big box retailers. The marketing strategy is failing for a number of reasons: Rushing poor products to market and overpricing them. It worked for a very short time while the price point was $399 on the DC07 and $429 on the DC14. After the DC11 and DC15, its been a downward spiral for dyson in the USA vacuum market. As OT says, dyson and the big box retailers got greedy and desperate (increase the warranty from 2 to 5 years). And reduced product performance (read cut costs) and increased the prices. Now as OT says, dyson is competing with the biggest, the best and most reliable vacuum brands among the indy's: Miele, Bosch, Aerus, RICCAR/Simplicity, SEBO. Not HOOVER and Dirt Devil at the big box retailers. Dyson can't compete with these brands at the indy's. And certainly can't by using the big box retailers as its venue with a price point of $500. That's the issue. Duck and dodge. Bob and weave. But that's dyson's predicament. Caught on the horns of a dilemma by its own making. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by tiger21 on 04/15/07 at 12:24am I looked at the Dyson Website just to see the posted performance. Lo and behold all I saw was DC-07 and DC-14 listed at 12 amps. DC-15 at 10 amps. DC-18 slimline at 200 airwatts power. This 200 airwatts power is the same as the power was for the Aerus ( formerly Electrolux) back 9/18/1991 - 16 years ago. If one looked at Aerus products, the three canisters and two top uprights have 395 airwatts power. The commercial upright has 318. Mr Dyson's people say the power of a vacuum cleaner is best measured by airwatts ( suction power) Motor wattage (or amps) is the amount of electricity used. Dyson can't go higher on Ams because of the law here in U.S.. No product can use more than 12 amps. The only way is the unit will have it's own plug in ( Central Vacs) |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 04/15/07 at 8:41am Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Carmine, I am not skirting any issue. You made mention of 500 engineers and I simply responded to that comment. I have never said that the new Dysons are not over priced. IMO, they are over priced. I fear that they are following hoover by introducing too many new models with little or no improvement over the DC07. One manufacturer simply can not be the 'one for all'. On the other hand Dyson does seem to offer more than a company like Oreck that simply sells by excellent marketing and not performance. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/15/07 at 11:25am Dyson had better capitalize on price gouging,because when consumer reports gets a hold of them for reliability and real life cleaning applications.They will EXPOSE them for the 100.00 vacuum they really are. THE LONG GREEN TRAIN RIDE IS COMING TO AN END....................... O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/15/07 at 9:21pm HARDSELL wrote:
HS: If you and the rest of the dyson lovers are not skirting, ducking, dodging, bobbing, and weaving the dyson shortfalls in products and marketing, then you are missing them by miles. Like your dyson comparison to HOOVER, your dyson comparison to ORECK is outright WRONG on all levels. Why? ORECK offers an icon brand name with almost a 50 year history of USA made vacuums (including floor care products and air purifiers); 500 ORECK Clean Home Centers nationwide for new ORECK sales, parts and service (on all vacuums including your favorite bagless brands); A price point of $300; A target market that grows every year by leaps and bounds and will continue to do so long after you and I are gone. An experienced network of authorized ORECK sales and service dealers through only top notch "indy" stores. An icon 8 pound lightweight vacuum that meets and exceeds all performance standards of the USA vacuum industry like Consumer Reports, the Carpet and Rug Institute of America, and the American Society of Testing Materials. A bottom of the line XL model with a proven and tested record for 18 years of household use. And the best recognized face in the vacuum industry: David Oreck. old-timer wrote:
Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 04/15/07 at 9:30pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
HS: If you and the rest of the dyson lovers are not skirting, ducking, dodging, bobbing, and weaving the dyson shortfalls in products and marketing, then you are missing them by miles. Like your dyson comparison to HOOVER, your dyson comparison to ORECK is outright WRONG on all levels. Why? ORECK offers an icon brand name with almost a 50 year history of USA made vacuums (including floor care products and air purifiers); 500 ORECK Clean Home stores nationwide for new ORECK sales, parts and service; A price point of $300; A target market that grows every year by leaps and bounds and will continue to do so long after you and I are gone. An experienced network of authorized ORECK sales and service dealers through only top notch "indy" stores. An icon 8 pound lightweight vacuum that meets and exceeds all performance standards of the USA vacuum industry like Consumer Reports, the Carpet and Rug Institute of America, and the American Society of Testing Materials. A bottom of the line XL model with a proven and tested reputation for 18 years of household use. And the best recognized face in the vacuum industry: David Oreck. Carmine D. [/quote] Where can you buy the XL21 for $300? All that you say about Oreck does not make it anexcellent cleaner. You are only copying Dave with marketing hype. Again, Hype does not make performance. I have tested the XL21 against the DC07 and the Oreck is no comparison. You have your opinion and I Have mine. I am not a pro nor an independent so I have no reason not to support Dyson like some of you do. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/15/07 at 9:59pm HARDSELL wrote:
HS: If good performance and proper product pricing doesn't make for an icon name brand for lightweight vacuums with 50 years of history in the industry, then I don't know what does? Maybe poor performance and overpricing? Yes, of course, that's the reason ORECK's are used in hotels, motels, air-ports, and by all the nationwide household cleaning services. Poor performance and overpriced! I should have known. Thank you for clarifying this for me. I said XL not XL21. $300 is the RETAIL going rate for the XL. In fact customers can buy for less too with a little effort. It's not just what satisfied ORECK customers say, it's what CR, CRI, and ASTM say about ORECK's performance. For years in comparative industry tests (against your favorite bagless brands too). That's not sales hype and sales hawking like you dyson lovers speak. These are the facts from independent industry sources. And an 18 year useful product life ON THE LEAST EXPENSIVE ORECK MODEL with a quality network of ORECK stores and independent dealers to support the products make ORECK a trusted household name AND an excellent vacuum cleaner purchase too. As usual you're ducking the issue and changing the subject: old-timer wrote:
Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by No Loss of Suction on 04/16/07 at 3:58am Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Quote:
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/16/07 at 7:52am I love it! And saw this ad on TV. And posted about it on the Forum. Dave Oreck, the vacuum man for all seasons. As a punk rocker! You go Dave! In a class of his own. My point exactly. No comparison. Thank you. I'd like to see "stuffed shirt" engineer James Dyson top that Oreck commercial. Keep in mind that Dave Oreck is an octogenarian and a WW11 (the big one) veteran. Not many WW11 veterans around any more. Let alone as a punk rocker. old-timer wrote:
I noted that the dyson DC21 Stowaway canister after making its luck warm (more like tepid) debut in mid Feb 2007 at the VDTA in Vegas has not been advertised by a single big box store yet! Not SEARS, BEST BUY, Bed Bath and Beyond, TARGET, Kohl's AND.........not even a dyson TV commercial and/or print ad. I wonder why. Could it be the $500 price tag? Dum, dum, dum, dum. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/16/07 at 9:54am THE LONG GREEN TRAIN RIDE IS COMING TO AN END.......................(for dyson in the USA) O.T. I noted that the dyson DC21 Stowaway canister after making its luck warm (more like tepid) debut in mid Feb 2007 at the VDTA in Vegas has not been advertised by a single big box store yet! Not SEARS, BEST BUY, Bed Bath and Beyond, TARGET, Kohl's AND.........not even a dyson TV commercial and/or print ad. I wonder why. Could it be the $500 price tag? Dum, dum, dum, dum. Carmine D. No Carmine,this is the reason why.With all the huge orders they took from the indy's at the vdta show. :D :D :D,they dont need the box stores yet,when the indy's dont pay them then dyson will give adeal to best buy,costco,wall-mart,etc. And these stores will dictate to dyson what they will pay and sell them for.......... B.T.W. I dont think Dave Oreck,hates Dyson [their machines makes his so much easier to sell] ;D O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/16/07 at 4:40pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
How much do hotels pay for the Orecks versus other consumers? Long ago someone told me that hotels used to get a much, much lower price than retail consumers, and that David gave the hotels the vacs at cost so that he could turn around and tout his machine as being used by so many hotels. Not a bad marketing strategy. Does he still do it? Or did he ease the hotel prices back up towards his retail over time? As for the DC07, yes, for my application it is the best of the Dyson line. We do a lot of tool work with it, and it has the most airwatts. Also, working on glued down carpet, the brushroll choice is less of a disadvantage. I still think that the best applications for the Dyson technology would be as a commercial vacuum, and as a shop-vac, and strangely Dyson has never introduced either, at least in the US. Probably the worst application is as a canister because the necessary cyclones don't make for a handy canister shape. Whenever I stop in on this board, I always feel like I'm watching a trainwreck. But which train is it that is going to wreck? Dyson? The big boxes? The indies? Hoover? Or will all the trains keep going their own way? |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/16/07 at 4:43pm old-timer wrote:
Hello OT: I stopped at a local Sam's Club store today and noted that the DC17 Total Clean (with the turbine tool) was priced at $479. And the DC14 Total Clean, which was carried and sold for the same price, was gone. This is a price reduction of $70 from the DC17 Absolute Animal advertised at some of the big box stores for $549. That vacuum weighs 21 pounds and is a monstrosity. My sense is Sam's dictated the DC17 price to dyson after it scrubbed the DC14 Total Clean. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/16/07 at 4:58pm cprohman wrote:
How much do hotels pay for the Orecks versus other consumers? Long ago someone told me that hotels used to get a much, much lower price than retail consumers, and that David gave the hotels the vacs at cost so that he could turn around and tout his machine as being used by so many hotels. Not a bad marketing strategy. Does he still do it? Or did he ease the hotel prices back up towards his retail over time? [/quote] Hello Carl: Here's a free vacuum history lesson to correct what you were told in error/misunderstood. When ORECK broke into the vacuum industry in the USA many years ago (almost 50 now), it did not get a warm reception. Just the opposite. Many of the vacuum makers at the time compared it to a play vacuum because of its lightweight. To prove the worth and performance of his 8 pound ORECK lightweight (which was innovative at a time when most vacuums were almost 3 times as heavy on average), David ORECK set out to dominate the hotel and motel cleaning industries with his vacuum cleaners. That was a very bold move on ORECK's part. NO vacuum maker had ever attempted such a mass market takeover. If it failed, ORECK, in all probability, would have been history in the USA. Instead, what happened after wards is vacuum history. And ORECK has maintained the lock on the cleaner of choice at motels and hotels for decades (and now even household cleaning services). My sense is these entities buy from ORECK in such huge quantities year after year with quantity guarantees, that they are saving substantially from the MSRP. As they should and would in the real world of business. Wouldn't you expect this to be the case in business? I wouldn't doubt if ORECK gives these organizations a deal on their parts and repairs too. That's usually how businesses work and forge lasting relationships. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/16/07 at 5:02pm So they upgraded to a newer model, doesn't sound that odd. Also is that not typically about the same price difference for previous dyson exclusive launches into Sam's or Costco compared to an Animal model. It's not a price reduction it is just the appropriate price difference for the lesser amount of accesories. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/16/07 at 5:09pm That sounds pretty consistent with what I heard. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/16/07 at 5:10pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Hello OT: I stopped at a local Sam's Club store today and noted that the DC17 Total Clean (with the turbine tool) was priced at $479. And the DC14 Total Clean, which was carried and sold for the same price, was gone. This is a price reduction of $70 from the DC17 Absolute Animal advertised at some of the big box stores for $549. That vacuum weighs 21 pounds and is a monstrosity. My sense is Sam's dictated the DC17 price to dyson after it scrubbed the DC14 Total Clean. Carmine D.[/quote] Hi Carmine,just to let you know something about oreck,real close friends of mine recently did a home and business show.They sold over 3500 orecks in 48 hours. these guy's work for a northeast distributor,one of the biggest in the world. Does T.L. ring a bell? O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/16/07 at 5:15pm JimB wrote:
Hey JimB: Since you mentioned it, what are the differences between the DC17 Total Clean and DC17 Absolute Animal to make the price difference $70? "NO." In the past when Sam's Club and/or COSTCO (and all the big box retailers) upgraded to a newer dyson model, it was ALWAYS at a price increase (most times substantial) from the previous dyson model's price. Never the same price. Just as all new dyson models have been at higher retail prices not the same price as the previous dyson model. My sense is dyson and the big box retailers realize the dyson prices have gone up too high on the subsequent models and the reason they are sitting unsold on the shelves. Now, they are trying to ease them back down subtlely. That's a novel idea. And ironically the subject of many of the foregoing posts by the dyson haters. What do you know? The dyson lovers agree with the dyson haters again. Sounds like a marriage of the minds. Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Venson, you're right. The price will come down. THe question is how: Fall drastically and/or gradually. Remember the DC11 and DC15. The DC15 dropped $100 in less than 6 months in October 2005. This was a red flag to buyers. Poor DC15 marketing resulting in poorer DC15 sales. Carmine D. [/quote] guess_who wrote:
Venson called it exactly right above. Dyson and Sam's Club are trying a "sucker's play" to bait consumers back to dyson with the DC17. Will it work? If it does, what does it say about the DC18 dyson light for $469? Even a bigger "sucker's play." Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/16/07 at 10:38pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
cprohman wrote:
Contrast the ORECK marketing/product strategy many years ago to dyson's 2004 tact with the DC11. When BEST BUY, SEARS and the "indy's" bailed out of the dyson DC11 canister in the Fall of 2004, dyson did a cut and run with the product in early 2005. Dyson didn't believe in his product and price. Not so with ORECK. Dave made a bold move because of his belief in his vacuum and his actions paid off then and still today. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/17/07 at 8:00am old-timer wrote:
Now that's selling that is believing. Nice 2 days work! Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 04/17/07 at 6:52pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
How much do hotels pay for the Orecks versus other consumers? Long ago someone told me that hotels used to get a much, much lower price than retail consumers, and that David gave the hotels the vacs at cost so that he could turn around and tout his machine as being used by so many hotels. Not a bad marketing strategy. Does he still do it? Or did he ease the hotel prices back up towards his retail over time? [/quote] Hello Carl: Here's a free vacuum history lesson to correct what you were told in error/misunderstood. When ORECK broke into the vacuum industry in the USA many years ago (almost 50 now), it did not get a warm reception. Just the opposite. Many of the vacuum makers at the time compared it to a play vacuum because of its lightweight. To prove the worth and performance of his 8 pound ORECK lightweight (which was innovative at a time when most vacuums were almost 3 times as heavy on average), David ORECK set out to dominate the hotel and motel cleaning industries with his vacuum cleaners. That was a very bold move on ORECK's part. NO vacuum maker had ever attempted such a mass market takeover. If it failed, ORECK, in all probability, would have been history in the USA. Instead, what happened after wards is vacuum history. And ORECK has maintained the lock on the cleaner of choice at motels and hotels for decades (and now even household cleaning services). My sense is these entities buy from ORECK in such huge quantities year after year with quantity guarantees, that they are saving substantially from the MSRP. As they should and would in the real world of business. Wouldn't you expect this to be the case in business? I wouldn't doubt if ORECK gives these organizations a deal on their parts and repairs too. That's usually how businesses work and forge lasting relationships. Carmine D. [/quote] Ford was the #1 selling car in the USA for years. That must prove that it is superior to BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and all other automobiles. BTW, Hotels motels and airports always have dirty carpet. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/18/07 at 9:18am HARDSELL wrote:
As do cars and homes. ;) Rugs can hold their weight in dirt and look clean. Daily rug vacuuming and yearly rug cleaning are highly recommended by all industry sources. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/18/07 at 10:18am Hi Guys,heres my expert repair opinion on a traded in dc-07.The machine came apart to service it. The good points. No broken or worn out parts. the brushbar as you call it,the brush bearings were loaded with hair and still spun. The belts were still o.k.[the customer was told there were no belts in it]. The clutch still worked. The bad points. The brush housing and surrouding plastic all gouged from trying to get under furniture. pre motor filter was never cleaned[did not know about it] was told it was maintaince free. sand up in the H.E.P.A. exhaust housing,How did that get there? Machine kept setting the bypass valve off,due to blockage. 4 out of the 8 highspeed cyclones were blocked with dirt,making the machine run hot and suction was cut in half,this can not be serviced by the novice, hair wrapped up under the drive belt on the brushbar. when under power and on the carpet ,made a smell like burning hair. Other than that it's not a bad machine. and according to the Dyson experts this is the best of the Dyson uprights. O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/18/07 at 12:02pm Hello OT: All the findings (read: shortcomings) about the DC07 and statements from the customer about dyson vacuums are commonly repeated throughout the industry by the indy's I talk with about dyson. Please provide any other personal details to me by PM. Thanks for posting and sharing. The cyclone configuration on the DC07 is flawed because the dirt falls to the bottom (smaller openings) and clogs. Bad design by the dyson engineers. Newton's law of gravity. Dah dyson! And the reason that the subsequent cyclones (DC14 and after) inverted the cyclones with the smaller openings on top and wider at the bottom. And the reason I prefer the DC14 to the DC07 (among other reasons) despite the lower air-watts rating. I've stated before and worth saying again that CR should address the issue of user maintenance with bagless vacuums, particularly the most expensive brand in its consumer reliability ratings. Buyers and users are lulled by dyson and its retailers into thinking no maintenance and costs are necessary after purchase. Like most of the dyson written claims about its vacuums, this is misleading and wrong. I expect CR will take dyson on for this later this year. But have to wait and see. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/18/07 at 12:25pm OT, your review sounds fair. Based on my experience I'd have expected a few of the sole-plate rollers to be stuck, too. You might check those. The fact that the owner didn't clean the pre-motor filter or cut the hair off the brushroll no doubt caused some of the additional problems you found. I suspect the clogged premoter filter decreased the air velocity, which in turn made clogging of the highspeed cyclones more likely. I personally have never experienced that with any of my units. As for the sand in the HEPA filter, perhaps it entered throught the bypass? Alternatively, perhaps at times the pre-motor filter wasn't properly seated, allowly air and dirt to leak in around it directly into the motor. I have seen sand in the HEPA filters on my units, and I attributed it to the latter. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/18/07 at 1:51pm The cyclone configuration on the DC07 is flawed because the dirt falls to the bottom (smaller openings) and clogs. Bad design by the dyson engineers. Newton's law of gravity. Dah dyson! And the reason that the subsequent cyclones (DC14 and after) inverted the cyclones with the smaller openings on top and wider at the bottom. And the reason I prefer the DC14 to the DC07 (among other reasons) despite the lower air-watts . Carmine D.[/quote] Hi Carmine,this machine has the inverted cyclone set up ,real thin at the top and larger at the bottom.It must be a late model dc-07. I really cant see what difference it would make as to where the cyclones are located, inside out ,upside down, they still block over a short period of time. I quess the best way out would be to have more of them.? O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/18/07 at 2:41pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Oops, Interesting detailed analysis. Unfortunately once again in your zeal to condem the machine with 35% $ marketshare that you have inverted the Cyclones in your mind as opposed to the direction they are in reality. In the real world the DC07 has cyclones that taper off at the top. As you must know DC14 and others since have cyclones that taper off at the bottom but as you also must know the air both enters and exits on the wide end of the cyclone. DOH... |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/18/07 at 2:46pm Old-Timer, Good analysis. Interesting that the machine obviously was suffering from lack of routine maintence. Did they happen to mention who told them that they did not need to maintain the filter twice a year as dyson states or occasionally clean the brush bar as with any vacuum? I am guessing some teenager working at a big box store? |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/18/07 at 3:10pm Hi JimB,to be very honest with you the purchase was made at a box store,so what else is new'',the customer bought on recomendation from a friend. Yes in the beginning everything was great as with most new vacuums.After 6 or 7 months the support from the tech line,was getting old the customer was sold the unit as maintainence free by the box sales rep. So in the customers mind she was misled,if she was told up front about maintaince this more than likely would have never been an issue.After all this is not a 59.95 purchase. It would be a big plus if they trained their help better at the box stores. Is this not where the area reps come in? O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/18/07 at 4:12pm JimB wrote:
Oops, Interesting detailed analysis. Unfortunately once again in your zeal to condem the machine with 35% $ marketshare that you have inverted the Cyclones in your mind as opposed to the direction they are in reality. In the real world the DC07 has cyclones that taper off at the top. As you must know DC14 and others since have cyclones that taper off at the bottom but as you also must know the air both enters and exits on the wide end of the cyclone. DOH...[/quote] Sorry JimB: I have to disagree with you on the cyclone configuration, although OT called it right on some of the latter model DC07's having the improved cyclone design of the DC14, 15 and 17. BTW, this is an old topic on the Forum and discussed in great length before. You're coming in new to it and may want to get up to speed on the facts. Maybe I should have qualified my analysis to clarify the confusion: Looking at the dyson with both feet on the ground and not upside down. ;) BTW, other than saying it's so, do you have some proof on the dyson percentage numbers? Please share. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/18/07 at 4:56pm I'm scratching my head here, now, trying to understand this discussion. My DC07's, which were early models, along with every other DC07 I've ever seen, including the ones being currently sold, have the second stage cyclones designed wth the narrow end of the cyclones at the top, and the larger end on the bottom. This is as described by Jim and OT. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/18/07 at 5:14pm old-timer wrote:
As I understand the engineering principle, the cyclone works because, by making the air spin, you create centrifugal force on the dirt particles, which causes them to spin to the outside of the cylinder, where they contact the wall, slowing them down, and causing them to drop out of the airstream. A problem comes if the airspeed drops below the designed airspeed. When the speed is reduced, the centrigugal force isn't as high as was intended, which means dirt doesn't spin out like it should. When this happens, larger dirt or lint, that should remain in the primary cyclone, ends up getting first onto the shroud, and then into the smaller cyclones. It is when this dirt that is larger that intended gets into the secondary cylinders that you have a problem. Failure to clean the secondary filter would reduce the airspeed, which in turn should lead to lint accumulation on the shroud, and could also lead to plugging of the secondary cyclones. My guess is that the clogging was a direct result of the partially obstructed secondary filter. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/18/07 at 5:32pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Odd that someone who spends so much time talking about dyson would be so confused, but all DC07's final cyclones (after the bin cyclone) have cyclones with the narrow end on top that get wider as you move down. They have been inverted in later models. Perhaps all this time you have been confused and criticizing it for a good reason. On one end you will see a opening with a brush roll just inside it. That end is the one you want on the ground when vacuuming. As for the Marketshare the most recent 3rd party numbers were in Homeworld magazine who publish many such numbers for appliances. Before you ask for a link, may I recomend As a consultant in the industry you really should subscribe. However when reading remember if the letters are upside down try flipping the magazine over. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/18/07 at 6:28pm JimB wrote:
Hello JimB: So what you are saying to me on the Forum is that I am wrong. I don't know what I'm talking about. That in fact dyson had the correct cyclone design ALL THE WHILE on the DC07: Narrow part on the cone on top and the wide part on the bottom. Thus, when the vacuum was turned off, any dust and dirt still in the cyclones easily fell from the narrow end of the cyclone cones (on top) to the wider openings on the bottom, and into the dirt bin. Due to the law of gravity. OK, I'm with you. I thoroughly agree. Here's the rub. For some unknown reason, dyson and its 500 engineers, decided to change the configuration on the cyclones on the DC14, DC15, DC16, DC17, DC18 and DC21. The cyclones now are wider on the top and narrower on the bottom. So, when the vacuum is turned off, the dust and dirt stuck inside the cyclones falls from the wider area to the smaller area of the cones. (Law of gravity). And over time, because the user can't clean the cyclones of the dyson vacuums, they clog up with dirt and become ineffective (even if the premotor filter is cleaned and washed as recommended.) Wow, don't I feel stupid! All along I was giving dyson credit for correcting what I erroneously thought was a flaw in the DC07 cyclones. And come to find out (thanks to you) just the opposite is true. Dyson took a perfectly fine design and inverted it to make it functionally inferior. Based on the above, I agree with Carl. The reason the cyclones clogged on the DC07 (which as OT explained have the scientifically correct configuration to avoid clogging due to gravity when the vacuum is shut off) is because the premotor filter got clogged due to lack of cleaning. Thanks for clarifying for me and the Forum. No wonder this thread is for dyson-haters. What company would take a perfectly good cyclonic design and functionally alter it to make it worse? Yep, you got it: Dyson. JimB wrote:
I retired August 4, 2006 (newsflash). If you want to post the link for the dyson sales numbers, don't do it on my account. Do it because you want to show your source and proof for the sales numbers that you and dyson banter about. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 04/18/07 at 6:43pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
As do cars and homes. ;) Rugs can hold their weight in dirt and look clean. Daily rug vacuuming and yearly rug cleaning are highly recommended by all industry sources. Carmine D.[/quote] Ever try to follow all the maintenance recommendations offered by a manufacturer? You could spend thousands of $ on just your automobile. BTW, how does your response relate to my post? If you use a Hoover or Oreck the dirt will linger in the carpet no matter how often you vacuum. I see you are still grasping for a life vest. Your boat is sinking. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/18/07 at 6:48pm HARDSELL wrote:
Hello HS: Actually, it makes no difference what vacuum you use and how often, you can never get all the dirt out of a rug by vacuuming. ;) That's the reason for the daily vacuuming and yearly cleaning. And the reason that industry experts recommend 7 rug passes for cleaning. Most not all the dirt is likely to be removed. I don't own a boat, I live in the desert. ;) No need for a life vest. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/18/07 at 7:03pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Hello JimB: So what you are saying to me on the Forum is that I am wrong. I don't know what I'm talking about. Carmine D. [/quote] Yes. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/18/07 at 7:05pm Hi So if dyson did reposition the cyclones put the top at the bottom and bottom at the top,in reality what difference did it make.Was this just a make work project for the engineers? O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/18/07 at 7:17pm old-timer wrote:
Hello OT: Dyson certainly did reposition the cyclones on the DC14 and models after. As I stated on the Forum when the DC14 first came out (and I noted the flawed inverted cyclone design) it was detrimental to the effective operation of the cyclones. Thanks to the law of gravity. And another reason that a self-proclaimed dyson expert preferred the DC07 over all the others. He was right. Adding cyclones helps. Regular maintenance/replacement of the premotor filters helps if users actually do this. And now with the Euro-Pro Infinity washing the cyclones (which dyson forbids) keeps them working effectively. Why did dyson make the change? Maybe some of the dyson experts can explain? Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/18/07 at 7:28pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Apparently Dyson inverted the cyclones in the DC14 and later because in their testing the new designs work better and/or are less prone to clogging. Why would inverted cyclones work better? To me it seems logical that the cyclones would be less prone to clogging with the big side down because dirt would easily fall out, and because it would be difficult for dirt to cling to the side walls. It seems to me, just as it does to you, that an inverted cyclone would be more prone to clogging. Certainly it would be more complex to build and more difficult to clean. As for why the inverted cyclones may work better, I'm just speculating here, but perhaps an inverted cyclone (with a hole at the bottom) would function very much like the primary cyclone, with the air going down around the outside, and coming up the center. The dirt would then settle to the bottom, and fall through a narrow opening into a collection chamber. In the more logical DC07 design, with the wider side down, as I think about it, the problem would seem to be that the falling dirt would tend to intersect the airpath, and could end up escaping the cyclone. Perhaps the heaviest of the dirt still light enough to get to the secondary cyclone (i.e. sand) would be heavy enough to fall into the airpath and escape, while the lighter dirt would have less tendency to do so. That would explain the odd tendency of the DC07 to allow some sand to get to the premotor filter while at the same time catching almost all drywall dust, a trait that I have always thought was bizarre. As I think about it, I guess, it doesn't surprise me that the inverted cyclones on the DC14 have less dirt escape and get to the pre-motor filter. As I understand it, the pre-motor now only needs to be cleaned annually instead of every 6 months (3 months in my use). As for their tendency to clog, I guess the real test will be real world use. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/18/07 at 7:41pm I just have to catch up before trying to help. It appears when they were first inverted a critic stated it was a mistake and prefered the DC07 cyclone, this morning it was an improvement and the critic preffered the DC14 cyclone (and apparantely always had), and now the critic is back to the inverting being a mistake and feeling the DC07 more effecient. A little dizzying but I can try to help. In the newer version of the cyclone the spinning action that causes the centrifugal force works down working with gravity and then the clean air exits up through the center of the cylcone. The DC17 actually adds a third level of cyclones with new intermediary cyclones entered into the middle of the process. As I understand it airspeed has also been adjusted in the cyclones to cause more effecient filtering. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/18/07 at 7:43pm Hello Carl: Correct me if I'm wrong, which I have tendency to be now since I retired, but didn't you say that a clogged air filter works better than a new one because it keeps out more of the dirt/dust. I think you were making an anology of a vacuum filter to a water filter, If I recall the post correctly? Am I wrong? Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/18/07 at 7:44pm To try to explain my comments above, I'll try to draw a text picture: ^ / \ / \ / \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / dirt \ As a dirt particle falls from along the wall high in the cyclone, it would no longer be along the side wall. It might get caught in the air, re-spun, and cycle again, or escape. By contrast, with an inverted cyclone, the falling dirt would remain next to the sidewall, and so long as it didn't actually stick to the sidewall, it should stay out of the airstream and slide through the hole at the bottom. Would it tend to stick, and clog? I don't know. Have the vac shops seen clogged DC14+ vacuums? |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/18/07 at 7:53pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Using a standard vacuum bag as an example, when new, a lot of fine dust passes through the bag. As more and more dust begins to pack the inside of the back, the dirt improves the filtration, and less and less dirt gets through the bag. Thus while all pollens would go right through a brand new bag, some would get caught in a full bag because it would stick to the other dirt. That's the positive side. The negative side is that less and less airflow also gets through, so the airspeed begins to drop. For the Dyson, where airspeed it critical to proper functioning of the cyclones, the loss of airspeed would be a much more significant loss than any possible gain from improved filtration. As regards the advantages of an inverted cyclone, I'll defer to Jim. My theory is just speculation, and he may well have seen some actual literature from Dyson explaining the switch. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/18/07 at 7:54pm cprohman wrote:
Correct and the great force of the cyclone would be pushing it down and to the outside as well with the centrifugal force increasing as the turns became tighter at the bottom. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/18/07 at 7:58pm JimB wrote:
Yes, I see that now. In my text picture above of an inverted (DC07-style cyclone), gravity would tend to pull the dirt particle back down, into the airstream, whereas in an inverted design gravity would would in the same direction as the centrifugal force, tending to keep the dirt particle against the sidewalls, and separated from the airstream. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/18/07 at 8:00pm JimB wrote:
If that's true, and I believe it is, the narrow openings on the bottom of the cyclones are more proned to clogging when the vacuum is shut off. Why? Centrifugal force and gravity are working together to force the dirt/dust in the cyclones to fall to the smaller openings and clog (after it is shut off). Which makes the DC07 cyclone configuration more desirable. Just as you said. And the DC14 (and later) cyclone design more inferior. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/18/07 at 8:41pm Wondering how the resident dyson critic was going to "spin" ;D this now, as you have had this version of the cyclone worse then better and now back to worse. Actually in order to clog, that fine dust would have not to have to only fight up against gravity dropping it down but also about 150,000 G at the tightest and fastest portion of the cyclone pushing it down as that airflow leaves the side of the cyclone to pass back up the center of the cyclone. Thus why to this point there have been no reports of these clogging here. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/18/07 at 9:10pm No spin JimB. I know how the cyclones face and the direction of dirt and air flow. My memory is not that bad even for an old man. And if it were, I have the same dyson product literature as you. Maybe even more. ;) It doesn't take an engineer to understand the shortcomings of putting a wider opening on top and a smaller hole on the bottom. Then force dirt down and air up. The dirt will clog the small hole and prevent air from going up. Dyson had it right in the DC07 and changed it. As the popular TV show goes: 'You got punked!' And April fooled in the same month! ;) By the same person. Me! Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/18/07 at 10:31pm old-timer wrote:
Carmine, Oddly it was Old Timer you "punked" this time with your false information. I and another only joined the conversation afterward to point out he was correct. Brilliant how you ridiculed me while insisting you were still correct all to continue your "hilarious" "punking" of Old Timer. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/18/07 at 11:04pm old-timer wrote:
JimB wrote:
JimB wrote:
Hello JimB: Think so? Read again. Seems you were rattled and riled not OT! ;) Probably from being so dizzy trying to catch up. You have difficulty keeping up. That's the reason you got punked! And April fooled! OT is confident and secure in his vacuum knowledge and experience. No problems keeping up with the "pros." It shows in his Forum posts. How about you? Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/19/07 at 12:25am Carmine, Are you seriously saying you are purposely posting false info denigrating dyson and then vigorously defending it to somehow "punk" people reading the board and accuse those who point out your are ridicule those of not "getting" your lie was just a joke? I am sure there are many that read the board that did not know your statements were not true to make them and then to say you were purposely misleading "as a joke" just doesn't seem as funny as you seem to think it is. Perhaps someone else who gets the "joke" can correct me here. I think you are better off sticking to your previous reaction stating you made a mistake. To err is human. To purposely mislead speaks to character and credibility. It is a shame your anti-dyson zeal so paints what could be an amazing contribution to this board with your vast experience and passion for the industry. I spar back and forth with you here and catch inconsistencies when you take the attacks to far but if you were ever take the blinders off and stop trying to spin every bit of industry news as the sky falling in on dyson I would love reading your observations. So have you heard the rumor that Oreck is looking to bring a certain canister back? |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/19/07 at 7:36am JimB wrote:
Wrong thread JimB. The humor on this thread is about dyson. ;) Although I suspect it is not funny for the people who buy dysons for $500 plus and have problems under warranty. Whether user related and/or not, based on misinformation and false claims from dyson and/or its retialers, and can't get the dysons fixed very easily without paying to ship them back to Illinois (and being without a household vacuum for 2 weeks or more). The dyson HELPLINE as pointed out in the case discussed on this thread (and I experienced personally myself with DC07 pink) is not very helpful. It's very sad and costly for the dyson customers. Hopefully Forums like this and threads about dyson experiences will educate consumers about dyson and its products. (As well as all other vacuum purchases). Consumers should do their homework and not rely solely on the claims and information by any company and its representatives. Especially for big box vacuums priced at $500 plus and sold by inexperienced retail staff. Wouldn't you agree? Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 04/19/07 at 7:58am The most amusing thing that I read here is how the pros grasp to find fault with Dyson. We have just read about one incident and that was most likely from user abuse. How many pros make a living repairing Dysons? I have asked this before and not one pro has admitted to Dyson repairs supporting their livlihood. Come on pros and tell us what brands earn you the most money. I do not believe that a repar every now and then is profitable. Perhaps that is why you hate Dyson. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/19/07 at 8:14am HARDSELL wrote:
JimB wrote:
Or perhaps the markup is the reason that some like to sell dyson products? The extraordinary pervasiveness of refurbished and repacked dysons on the net for sale at reduced prices are not the result of customers buying dysons from big box retailers (the dominant retail venue for new dysons) and happily keeping them beyond the warranty period. Quite the contrary. These are dyson customers' unhappy returns that are being recycled into the previously owned vacuum sales market. Often with substantially shortened warranty periods than new. Why? ................. When the new DC07 pink purchased from TARGET failed to perform as dyson claimed on the box on my wool Mohawk carpets, I made several calls to the dyson HELPLINE. All elicited the same response: Return it to the retailer and get your money back. It won't work on your carpets (contrary to the written claim made by dyson on the carton and in its product literature). I gifted it away and took the loss. In my case it was about $250 after discounts and giftcards are factored in. Most consumers I imagine follow the dyson HELPLINE advice and return them and get their money back. And these end up in the resale market as dyson repacks and refurbs. BTW, do these unhappy dyson customer returns get factored into the Consumer Reports customer surveys for reliability? No probably not, they are no longer registered dyson owners (as me). Or are they? Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/19/07 at 11:18am Hi H.S. Do my stores make a living off dyson repairs,the answer is NO, and the reason being is that they are in most cases 99% of the time they are still covered under the factory warranty. The only time we make money on dyson vacuums,is due to selling replacement filters,attachments, The biggest money to be made is when the customer is just tired of dealing with the repair hassles,and helpline. They take a visicous beating on their INVESTMENT,and trade it in.We turn around fix er up and sell it on E-BAY. O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/19/07 at 11:47am First of all, let me thank Jim, who obviously understands the way the cyclones work on the Dysons, and isn't confused by incorrect information. His posts helped me to understand why the inverted design was adopted on latter models. Second let me say that I continue to scratch my head over this whole line of posts. While it would be it strange for someone to be reluctant to admit when he is wong, it would be stranger still that someone for his own amusement would deliberately posts false infomation and mislead people like OT, who simply accepted at face value such incorrect information as the "fact" that there were different versions of DC07 with different cyclone configurations. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/19/07 at 12:12pm Hello Carl: I suppose that where you stand depends on where you sit. You like dysons and defend them, as does JimB (who also sells them and brags of the profit) and HARDSELL. Obvously any thread that is for Dyson Haters offends you and them. So the subject name is a warning to you and them if you are sensitive to dyson criticism. Having been "sucked" into a new dyson DC07 pink purchase (which is what this thread is about) and extremely dissatified with the results, I choose to make my personal and professional concerns about the products and company known. Just as you, JimB and HS make known your satisfaction and pleasure. Read and/or don't read. It's your right just as it is mine. And I believe there is another thread on the Forum devoted especially to people like you who hold dyson in high esteem. Hopefully, Forum readers get a well-balanced perspective of the dyson products, if they are interested in buying. Thanks to all who share their views. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/19/07 at 12:50pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Come on what is so tough about staying honest. Your thoughts and criticisms on dyson were posted daily for years before this purchase. To act surprised that your findings after being "sucked" into purchasing this machine were the exact same as opinions you had been claiming as facts for years and to imply you only started criticizing it after that purchase is at best disnengenuous at perhaps downright dishonest. The Dyson hater thread doesn't offend me it actually cracked me up when I first saw it posted as a response to the other. However, you are a bright guy who knows a ton about the industry who obviously wants to make dyson look bad, it says alot when you have to resort to making stuff up (as jokes of course). |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/19/07 at 1:19pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Regarding my attitude towards Dysons in general, I am neither a lover nor hater. I am a satisfied owner of a specific model of Dyson (DC07), used for a specific purpose (vacuuming low pile commercial carpet, and for tool work), and I am satisfied with my choice for that specific purpose. To generalize beyond that would be inappropriate, and I don't believe that any one vacuum is right for anyone. I also recognize that among the various Dyson models, there are some vacuums that are deserving of criticism. For example, the DC16 has received many unfavorable reviews on Epinions for its 5 minute battery life, The DC17 has recieved some for having a too-aggressive brushroll. It is true that I respond from time to time when information I know to be incorrect is posted. I try not to be judgemental as to whether the incorrect information is being posted in error or with the deliberate intent to mislead, but rather simply try to post what I believe to be correct. I have no quarrel with someone who posts bone fide information that may be unfavorable. For example, when OT posted his comments regarding his tear-down, I said it was a fair analysis, and suggested that he might find a further problem if he examined the base-plate rollers, which tend to stick, and I suggested that the clogged cyclones were probably a logical result of the failure to clean the premotor filter. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/19/07 at 1:53pm I agree with the DC16 shortcomings of a 5 minute charge and high sticker price. I posted that criticism on this Forum under the DC16 thread much to the chagrin of several dyson lovers who contradicted me. It's not surprising that 9 months later consumers criticize the run time too (they got sucked in). At the price, $149, it is so laughable it is sad that dyson actually brought it to market. Why? I posted the reason before when dyson Chris mentioned that it was one of amazon's best sellers. I'll repost here again. Many consumers are very reluctant to plunk down $500 plus for a vacuum from a big box store. So they tried out the DC16 at $149 (chump change) to see if it is worth it. My sense is their disappointments with the DC16 performance will turn them off from the higher priced dyson models. That's human nature. You get one shot to win over an undecided buyer's confidence with your brand name and product. If you lose, you're out. I guess the burned DC16 buyers can always use them as paper weights, conversational items, and door stops. I recall when HSN did the DC16 TV sale. It took no less than 5 new dyson DC16 hand held vacuums to promo and demo on TV. Why? Because of the short 5 minute run time. In fact, one of the models didn't have enough of a charge to make it through the demo. :o I have heard the "too aggressive" criticism comments of the DC17 brushroll. And at least one major US rug manufacturer voids its warranty if any dyson product is used on its wool carpets. Did I mention I have Mohawk wool carpets in my new home? Ironic that dyson was criticized for having too wimpy brushbars for years on the DC07 and DC14. Then took the opposite tact and went to other extreme. Why? Amateurish vacuum engineers? For such a high retail price ($569) the dyson DC17 Absolute Animal should offer several brush styles to meet consumers' needs and wants. Or provide special order vacuums (with the desired brush roll style) and customer attachments. Then dyson could justify its high retail vacuum prices and satisfy more vacuum buyers. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/19/07 at 3:46pm Hi Guys,i was just thinking maybe some type of coating could be used on the inside and outside of the cyclones to repel the dirt,such as something like teflon or some other substance that would repel the dirt build up. I am sure that stuff like this has already been tested,if so anyone have any other ideas. Just trying to build a better mousetrap,you know how us racers are always looking for the next level, to go faster or quicker. Or trying to make the vacuum cleaner just that much better than the rest............ O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/19/07 at 8:02pm old-timer wrote:
Hello OT: You're thinking of Microban antimicrobial protection which inhibits the growth of odor and stain causing bacteria, mold and mildew inside the machine. Currently used by BISSELL, ORECK, and HOOVER. And in other applications like food carts and seats. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/19/07 at 9:25pm Now I am getting it. Microban as a anti-stick surface like teflon as opposed to a anti microbial surface. Though you could punk the board again? |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/19/07 at 10:24pm Talking about the dyson DC16 root 6 technology hand held: Anybody know why dyson doesn't provide the actual run time on a charge in it's DC16 product literature? Am I the only person who thinks this is an important factual detail to include for a rechargeable vacuum's performance? How could dyson overlook it? Just oversight and/or intentional? I'll have to check the specs on the dyson Web site and see what it says. I guess for $149 (chump change), what can you expect? Maybe it's even less than 5 minutes? Come to think of it, when I timed the HSN demo, it was just about 3 minutes when the dyson died. Then again, dyson started printing it's product literature in Spanish and English. Since I don't know Spanish (yet) maybe it's the run time is there (in Spanish and not English) and I can't read it. :( Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/19/07 at 10:37pm Nope, no run time on the USA dyson Web site for the DC16. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by RAT on 04/20/07 at 9:46am I suspect the run time is variable, and it may depend on temperature, battery life, and other conditions. Personally, I would have preferred a corded electric powered hand held with the option to insert a battery for $150. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/20/07 at 12:33pm RAT, suppose it had been the same as it is - a 5-6 minute run time - but also had the option of running it on a cord from a 12V transformer plugged into the wall, or from a cigarette lighter socket? |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Trilobite on 04/20/07 at 10:33pm With the fact that most Dyson uprights have a hard floor setting now to switch off the agitator, would it not be sensible to incorporate beater bars/nodules into the agitator, to give carpets the bloody good beating they are sorely missing? |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/21/07 at 9:05am I came across this one poster's review of the DC16 hand held and thought it was very well written and informative. Since the reviewer is a self-professed dyson fan (unlike me), I thought it was a "Fair and Reasonable" review to post on this thread. To balance out the perspective of the reviewers' negative criticism of yet another overpriced dyson failed product. I was especially interested by the user's account of his pet's reaction to the dyson's. My English lab, who you would assume have an inclination to like dyson, ran from the room whenever she saw the DC07 pink, especially during use. I presumed it was the gawdawful ratcheting noises that were the cause. But maybe not. In any event unlike the poster who returned his DC16 to BEST BUY (as you will learn many others did) I gifted my DC07 away. Ironically whenever I use my other vacuums, including my HOOVER FloorMate, my lab is right there to help out. (Fortunately the FM dries the ceramic tile floor very well or I would have little doggie paws all over my finished floor. We live in the desert and my lab still forgets on occasion to clean her paws when she enters the house). http://www.epinions.com/content_278485110404 Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by RAT on 04/25/07 at 4:11pm cprohman wrote:
Carl, Your solution would actually make more sense. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/26/07 at 8:15am The other option would have been to make the battery packs removable and interchangable with some popular brand of cordless drill like DeWalt or Makita. Then the owner of the drill, who always has a charged battery pack or two would be a natural buyer, plus they could second-source the product with the other brand-name. They could also have then sold it without a battery pack or charger for a lot less, and would probably have moved a lot more units. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/26/07 at 8:52am Carl: What do you think the marketing fate of the DC16 will be? Other dyson fans are welcomed to answer too! Many retailers, like SEARS, dumped the DC16 early on. BEST BUY stores plan to do the same and held out longer because of its exclusive alliance with dyson. The DC16 is disappearing from other retailer shelves too due to lack of interest and sales. It's interesting to go back and read some of the posts on the Forum when the product launched just months ago with much fanfare and enthusiasm. Fortunately for ease of reading, all the posts are confined to one thred on the DC16. A quick read. What's does the future hold in store for dyson's hand held? Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 04/26/07 at 9:32am Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Kind of funny as Sears has yet to carry the DC16 in their stores. Or is this another one of your purposeful mistruths to "punk" someone. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 04/26/07 at 10:03am Hi Guy's heres the reason why it never sold well.It's OVERPRICED by $100.00. O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/26/07 at 1:13pm JimB wrote:
Hello JimB: Several of the SEARS GRAND store locations did "try-out" sales of the DC16 (to test the market demand) before going store-wide. Obviously, you know the result. ;) Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/26/07 at 2:13pm old-timer wrote:
tiger21 wrote:
Called exactly right! The two primary reasons for SEARS dumping the DC16. The 3-5 minute run time and the $149 price are its demise. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Trilobite on 04/26/07 at 4:19pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
tiger21 wrote:
Called exactly right! The two primary reasons for SEARS dumping the DC16. The 3-5 minute run time and the $149 price are its demise. Carmine D. [/quote] Do you think that it would have sold better if it was powered by the mains, like Ye Olde Hoover Dustette? |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/26/07 at 10:26pm Trilobite wrote:
Trilobite: Technical foul. Low blow. Hitting below the belt! ;) Worse product ever to bear the HOOVER emblem. I never understood the reason that HOOVER, which pioneered the revolving brush/agitator in uprights, continued to put out a line of hand cleaners that were all straight suction, like the Dustette and Pixie. While other makers, like Royal, had a lock on the hand cleaner sales with the revolving brush. And still to this day, Dirt Devil corners the hand cleaner market with millions sold every year. And one of the reasons I never sold HOOVER hand cleaners, even as an authorized HOOVER dealer, unless a customer insisted on buying. My favorite seller: Royal metal with revolving metal brush. Sold many. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by cprohman on 04/27/07 at 4:51pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Strange. All the reviews I have seen indicate a 5-6 minute run time. As if that wasn't short enough, you cut that almost in half. Could you tell me who found a run time of only 3 minutes? Or are you "punking" again? |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 04/27/07 at 5:11pm Hi Carl: Like I said, there are enough problems with the DC16 hand held, I don't have to invent them. I posted an epinion on the DC16 on the Forum by a dyson fan who said his run time was under 5 minutes for a 3 hour charge. I also mentioned that I timed a DC16 demoed on HSN and it died on the air shortly after 3 minutes. Too short a period of time to complete the demo. I also questioned dyson's truthfulness in not stating in its DC16 product literature and on the USA Web site what the actual run time is for the DC 16. A very important specification for a rechargeable. I opined that the reason dyson does not is because it is not 5 minutes (which is so short a run time for $149 that it is laughable) and possibly and probably even less in real life. I noted that a Forum poster Artie V has an agry face next to his mention of the purchase of a DC16. Maybe he would share his run time for the DC16 with us. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by RAT on 05/02/07 at 3:10pm Carmine, The following isn't your review is it? It's about an Oreck "whipping" a Dyson in a fairly well designed test. An Oreck customer apparently challenged a Sear's salesman to set up to rugs with equivalent dirt loads. The Sear's salesman claimed that he should be ready to be whipped by the high tech Dyson, but that's not how things turned out. Apparently the Dyson went down in flames. http://www1.epinions.com/content_230865735300 |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/02/07 at 4:49pm RAT wrote:
Hello RAT: Nice try. ;) I'm not nearly as smart as you. Excellent and honest review and match up. My compliments. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 05/10/07 at 10:02am Hi,after looking at the reviews about dyson,I cant help myself and want the forum to know about my unbiased review of the dc18. I love my dyson dc18,it's so lite and has the best suction of any vacuum i have ever used.It really picks up the animal hair like no other vacuum ever.The vacuum is worth every penny.It will never break down or need service.The salesman at sears told me so.They have stores to service it all over the country.And it never looses suction to boot.This machine should change the way people vacuum. P.S.,I'm not on dysons payroll ;) O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/10/07 at 2:44pm Hello Jimmy P/OT Thank you for an honest and sincere assessment of the latest dyson upright. I agree wholeheartedly with every word of your praise. At $469 it is probably the best buy of all the dysons including the DC21 Stowaway canister (which I plan to stow away and never use again once I buy my own DC18 Slim). Well worth the meager price. After all, its is built by no less than 500 engineers lead by the quintessential engineer himself: Sir James. If I can just add the single most selling point of the DC18 Slim (IMHO): At 16 pounds AND with the capability to flip and flop all over the floor with ease and comfort every which way and mean, the users will enjoy vacuuming with it so much, they'll never want to stop. ;) Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 05/10/07 at 7:10pm But Carmine,your dyson comes with life time washable hepa filtration. ;D,if you want the latest high tech,or hyped technology it costs plenty to get this germ fighting,dust mite killing,dander stopper,flea and other yucky things that will harm you and your family. Thats got to be worth the500.00 to you isn't it. I know what your thinking,just give a top load shake out bag,a good pre motor filter,and a foam after filter, And i'll take my chances against the army of indoor militants that want to ruin my house......... B.T.W. hows the dog? O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by RAT on 05/10/07 at 10:31pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Although James Dyson is certainly an inventor and a well rounded person, he has more of a liberal arts background rather than formal engineering training. Curiously, James studied at the "Royal College of Art for four years, where he studied furniture design, then interior design." Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm not sure whether the term "engineer" means the same thing across the lake that it does here. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/10/07 at 11:11pm old-timer wrote:
If I could just get the dyson to pick up those $20 bills I stuff in the sofa and under the matress, it would soon pay for itself! Excellent: Diabetic (insulin shots 2X daily), epileptic (runs in the breed), old (like me), cataracts (comes with age), and a tumor on her belly since birth. Outside of these, she's absolutely perfect. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 05/10/07 at 11:16pm RAT wrote:
And here all along, I thought he operated a locomotive. Silly me. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 05/16/07 at 7:25pm Hi,This question is open to the dyson people to answer. Does the dyson dc14 animal ,work just as good on pet hair,weather i have a maine coon cat,or a saber tooth tiger in my home? or how about if i have a white rabbit or a grey coyote.I just have to know. :D O.T. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 05/16/07 at 7:51pm old-timer wrote:
Yes. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Trilobite on 05/22/07 at 8:24am Has Old-Timer been at the Whiskey bottle again??? ;D |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by RAT on 05/22/07 at 2:53pm Trilobite wrote:
I don't know whether Old-Timer enjoys the taste of whiskey, but his question is legitimate. The type of pet hair does matter. Consumer Reports used cat hair for its tests, and the Dyson models tested didn't fair well. Some pet hair is more oily than others. The amount of agitation needed to remove hair from carpeting depends on the oil content in the hair. In addition, the length of the hair is related to whether it wraps around the brush roll. It has been pointed out on many occasions that many early Dysons had flat brush rolls which are more prone to collect long hairs. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by old-timer on 06/20/07 at 9:36am The RAT,as usual answers the hard questions [with no spin]. The cats out of the bag.................. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/07/07 at 12:47pm Mark, an independent vacuum cleaner profesional, continues to update eBay with his personal and professional experience with vacuums. Here's his latest: http://reviews.ebay.com/DYSON-VACUUM-CLEANER-OVER-RATED-OVER-PRICED-THE-MYTH_W0QQugidZ10000000001303022?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:LISTINGS:2 Thanks Mark for your professional assessment and opinions on vacuums. Much appreciated. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 07/07/07 at 1:36pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
This answers my question from another thread. You posted this guys review on multiple threads again. I for one am shocked that an Oreck dealer would criticize dyson. ;) Think he would at least not blatantly lie like "Dyson now offer a 5 yr warranty. You have to pay to ship it to the Head office($40) If they feel its damaged due to misuse, You will have to pay for the repair. parts and return shipping fee. ($40)". What's next a Kirby door to door salesmans review of a hoover? |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/07/07 at 5:28pm JimB wrote:
And you my friend are a dyson dealer. So everything balances out. Having bought and used NEW ORECKS and dysons, I am not the least bit surprised that Mark, a vacuum professional of utmost integrity and sincerity, does not like dyson vacuums and prefers Oreck (and other vacuum brands) over dyson. Why? I do too. And both Mark and I have criticized dysons for alot of the same reasons. His commentary is very straight forward and balanced. If you disagree with his criticisms, post the reasons. Don't impugn the poster. Unless of course, you don't have solid grounds and bases for disagreement. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 07/07/07 at 9:28pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
And you my friend are a dyson dealer. So everything balances out. Having bought and used NEW ORECKS and dysons, I am not the least bit surprised that Mark, a vacuum professional of utmost integrity and sincerity, does not like dyson vacuums and prefers Oreck (and other vacuum brands) over dyson. Why? I do too. And both Mark and I have criticized dysons for alot of the same reasons. His commentary is very straight forward and balanced. If you disagree with his criticisms, post the reasons. Don't impugn the poster. Unless of course, you don't have solid grounds and bases for disagreement. Carmine D. [/quote] A professional is one who is paid to perform a service. Do not confuse professional with being knowledgable. A car salesman is a professional. Most could not replace the air filter in the autos they sell. I tried the Oreck and Dyson the same as you Carmine. I chose Dyson and you chose Oreck. Does that mean that Oreck is the best simply because you chose it? I think we all know the truth and we also know your answer. The Oreck is a very good electric broom. That is why it works better on your carpet. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 07/07/07 at 9:58pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Does not like dyson but prefers other brands? Mark's first line is "The Dyson bagless vacuum is the top selling Bagless vacuum in the United States. England and Australia. Its far supieror to the Eureka, Bissel, Hoover and Kenmore bagless." He IMHO is your typical Oreck dealer who makes all his money selling bags and his "review" not surprisingly reflects that. As with many Oreck dealers he most likely sells new Orecks almost exclusively. At my last check Orecks were the only machines he was selling from his ebay online "superstore". I do find it funny that you find the opinion of an oreck only dealer is "very straight forward and balanced" despite straight forward untrue statements, but the opinion of a dealer who sells dyson as a small portion of his business his constantly criticized for having opinions shaped by the bottom line. The hypocrisy does not happen to be tied to his being critical of dyson and sharing your opinion? |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/07/07 at 10:19pm JimB wrote:
JimB: Apparently you are still proned to respond without reading completely. Here is the part you missed from Mark's commentary about dysons: "If you are still interested in getting a Dyson, you really do want a bagless upright, with the best attachments on the market, Go for the Dyson DC15 Animal, It has more power than the DC07 or DC14." Sounds like a resounding endorsement and a well-balanced review for an ORECK-only dealer. ;) Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/07/07 at 10:34pm HARDSELL wrote:
Hello HARDSELL: Glad to have you back. Here's what I did to test the performance of the dyson DC07 pink, ORECK XL Classic and HOOVER WT Supreme with imbedded dirt finder light. In the same house having the same carpets, I asked the homeowner to use the ORECK XL Classic on the carpets on the first floor, as he would normally. Then I asked him to use the DC07 pink on the same carpets upstairs as he normally would do for vacuuming. For one week. Then I went back and vacuumed with my HOOVER WT Supreme. He witnessed. Without exception, without exception, the red dirt light did not come on when I used the HOOVER WT Supreme on the first floor carpets (vacuumed for one week with the ORECK). Quite a different case for the upstairs carpets vacuumed with the dyson DC07 pink: The HOOVER WT Supreme red light came on and stayed on for long periods of vacuuming time before the green light came on. (The dyson DC07 pink was used to vacuum the upstairs carpets). Then, I asked the homeowner to change vacuums using the dyson downstairs and the ORECK upstairs for one week. And I returned with the HOOVER WT Supreme and vacuumed. Same result as before. The dyson vacuumed carpets were not clean (as evidenced by the red dirt light being on) and ORECK vacuumed carpets were clean (as evidenced by the green light). Easy rug test to do. BTW, one of the complaints the user had about the dyson: He couldn't get all the dirt and pet hair out of the bin. He had to stick his hands up into it to clean out. On another note on the VIZIO TV's you were exactly right. The 42 inch sets are returned in unusually high numbers. COSTCO confirmed that to me. As a result it recommends the 50 inch model and claims it to be one of the best for the money (about $1500). :) Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 07/07/07 at 10:39pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
JimB: Apparently you are still proned to respond without reading completely. Here is the part you missed from Mark's commentary about dysons: "If you are still interested in getting a Dyson, you really do want a bagless upright, with the best attachments on the market, Go for the Dyson Dc15 Animal, It has more power than the DC07 or DC14." Sounds like a resounding endorsement. ;) Carmine D. [/quote] And you and I both know that the DC15 has less suction power than the DC07 and DC14. So your hero vacuum professional either has no understanding of how Dyson warranty service works (unless he is misleading) and is wrong (or misleading) on a thing as fundamental as suction power. Should we go for strike three for mr. "very straight forward and balanced". |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/07/07 at 10:45pm Yes my friend JimB, but it has a much better brush roll. And suction alone does not a clean carpet make. It takes agitation from a good brush roll too. Something the DC07 and DC14 lacks. Hence dyson improved the brush roll on the DC15, 17, 18 and 21, and lowered the suction. ;) Anymore questions? Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 07/07/07 at 10:50pm Exactly as we both know, unfortunately your expert still thinks the DC15 has more power than the DC07 and DC14. Oh and by the way he thinks the only way to have your Dyson serviced under warranty is to ship it for $40 (each way) to dyson. Glad we are clear that in both he is incorrect. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/07/07 at 10:52pm Are you sure you don't work for NPD? Your posts make about as much sense as their marketshare numbers. None. Please speak for yourself and not me when you do. ;) Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 07/07/07 at 11:01pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Crosstalking across threads is a little dishonest in my book as it purposely leaves out info so here is the link to NPD the company USA Today used to source marketshare data so readers can decide if thier marketshare numbers or your "feelings" should be trusted more for nationwide accuracy. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/07/07 at 11:07pm JimB wrote:
Crosstalking across threads is a little dishonest in my book as it purposely leaves out info so here is the link to NPD the company USA Today used to source marketshare data so readers can decide if thier marketshare numbers or your "feelings" should be trusted more for nationwide accuracy. [/quote] And JimB I would add that not explaining what the numbers mean and measure insults readers' intelligence. Especially if specifically asked to do so. Makes me think the numbers are meaningless and self-serving. Unless you care to explain them to the Forum? I asked several times but got no responses. What do you think the numbers mean and measure? Please, I'm all eyes and ears. We're all eyes and ears. Do what the NPD couldn't do when asked. Tell us what the 3 month NPD vacuum sales percentages mean and how they are derived. And I'll remind you that dyson has failed to reach ONE MILLION units sold in the USA in a vacuum market that consistently sells 20 MILLION new vacuums a year. And if you want to be honest why not post that link too along with the NPD. ;) 6 million is the number sold in last 3 years outside the UK [which sold 4 MILLION]. That's 2 MILLION a year spread over 50 plus countries other than the UK. And that's for dyson's best selling years and after 5 years of exported sales. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by justasking2 on 07/08/07 at 12:06pm The only way one could not understand Jimb's link to USA Today on Vacuum marketshare is if that person did not like the numbers and wanted to purposely decieve. It is pretty simple USA Today used data from the top gatherer of such data. The data in the link below clearly shows dyson owning 25.2% of revenue in the upright vacuum market for the first three months of this year with the closest competitor about 10 points behind. I have read about NPD at the link provided to them and think I along with major retailers trust this data more than a retired guy on a personal anti dyson jihad hearsay with a Sears salesperson in some store in sububarn Nevada. http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/manufacturing/2007-06-17-dyson-usat_N.htm?csp=34 |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/08/07 at 1:45pm Justasking2: Another name of a dyson fawner from the past. Let me say as an accounting and finance type, in addition to a vacuum professional of over 50 years, that 3 months of percentage data, regardless of who and how it is collected and presented, is meaningless. The best and most convincing data on dyson sales numbers was provided in a UK link from INVENTS BIG which dyson itself was the source. 10 MILLION new dysons sold in the last 3 years with 40 percent in the UK and 60 percent exported. Do the math. It's simple. That would be 2 million new dysons exported each year to about 24 major worldwide countries and 2 dozen lesser countries. No matter who and how you figure, it comes to less than ONE MILLION new dysons sold per year for the last 3 years [2004, 2005, 2006] in the USA. Where the new vacuum sales market is consistently 20 MILLION units per year. With dyson's best sales year in 2004 at about 900,000 new USA units. Recall that retail sales prices of the dysons were lower then from now. In 2005, 2006, 2007 dyson raised its retail prices substantially on its new models [and its sales in units have suffered] so its dollar volume of sales have creeped up slightly. About 4 percent according to the NPD data for the first 3 months of 2007. Recall it was about 21 percent for all of 2004. So the marginal percentage increase (3-4 percent) for the first quarter in 2007 vice the entire year of 2004 is due to its higher retail prices. Not unit sales increases. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/08/07 at 1:54pm And here's the link posted again--I am not the source of this link on the Forum. A dyson advocate on the Forum [DYSON INVENTS BIG] is the source of the link posted. Absolute unit sales numbers for 3 past consecutive years worth of sales data from the source--dyson--always trump 3 month's worth of guesstimate percentage numbers from a third party source which refuses to provide a bases for the meaning and measuring. IMHO. As an accounting and finance type AND vacuum profesional, I noted that dyson does not split out the yearly sales results from one year to another. Instead it clumps all the sales data together for 3 years. Why? IMHO, Because dyson sales in the USA in 2005 and 2006 went down from 2004, the last year that dyson "boasted" of its USA unit sales of about 900,000 units. [Not factoring in for all the returns]. http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/07/06/12/10131686.html Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 07/08/07 at 4:02pm The Ford Mustang is superior to the Rolls Royce. I know this is true because of the ratio of each auto that is sold each year. I previously had no idea that annual units sold related to quality. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/08/07 at 5:53pm Hello HARDSELL: Funny! ;D And true. JD Power gave the annual awards for 2007 to --you got it--FORD. Rolls Royce wasn't even on the short list. Like I always say: High price is not an indicator of high quality. Case in point: dyson vacuums and the list is long encompassing many models and years. Dyson vacuums are mediocre at best and for the price, very underwhelming. But good friend, you were right on with the 42 inch VIZIO TV's at COSTCO. Stick to TV's and cars. Jimmy P, Tiger21, Mark, vacuuman etc. etc. and I will take care of the vacuums. ;) And I would say annual units sold consistently year after year are, if not and indicator of quality, at least and indicator of customers' satisfaction in performance, price, and product brand. Gee, that sounds oddly the same as "quality." Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 07/08/07 at 7:17pm Back to the old marketshare by dollars or by units argument. As a finance guy I figured you would prefer dollars in the bank not units sold. Although neither is a quantative measure of quality they are of company success. I will take 1 million "y" brand sold at $500 bucks over 2 million "x" brand at $75 anyday of the week if I was looking to measure success. If I was to take you business advice I would sell my business and take up the lucrative 1 penny gumball business. Think of all those units sold, I wonder why everyone isn't flocking to that lucrative industry to rack up units in the bank. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/08/07 at 9:37pm JimB wrote:
JimB: It's not what I want, take and prefer: It's the vacuum industry's standard of measure for sales each year that counts. And that's unit sales not dollar volume of sales. Why? I said this before but obviously when you, as an industry insider, draw vacuum sales comparisons to candy gum balls, it needs to be repeated. The prices of vacuums vary based on brand name, model type, and retailer. The only valid measure of independent and valid comparison across such industry variables is unit sales. Unit sales have been the gauge of yearly vacuum sales since the vacuum industry was founded and it is still today. Dyson uses dollar volume for the 'wow' and 'finagle' factors. Like using .5 MILLION instead of $500,000. Wow factor. Get's people's attention. NPD is an excellent example. 3 months worth of meaningless vacuum percentage data based on who knows what and how. NPD and USA Today insult readers intelligence when they report these number data. It is self-serving and brand biased to show the highest priced big box bagless brand in a favorable light. In reality, dyson sales peaked in 2004 in the USA with .9 MILLION unit sales and the UK with 43 percent of market share in units. Dyson lost market share in unit sales in the USA and UK vacuum markets in 2005, 2006 and to date in 2007. By using dollar volume, and increasing retail prices, the financial results hide the fact that dyson sales are declining. That's the reason dyson clumps the last 3 years worth of unit sales data together rather than breaking it down by year. IMHO. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 07/08/07 at 11:08pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Twisting again Carmine. Buying inexpensive goods is not necessarily an indicator of quality or satisfactiion. It is simply buying what one can afford or prefers to spend. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/09/07 at 7:33am HARDSELL wrote:
Twisting again Carmine. Buying inexpensive goods is not necessarily an indicator of quality or satisfactiion. It is simply buying what one can afford or prefers to spend. [/quote] HARDSELL: Not necessarily so. USA consumers are savvy. If they buy a lemon, regardless of price, they don't again. And if they buy a quality product that satisfies them, at whatever the price, they do so again. The HOOVER TEMPO is an excellent vacuum example. It's a quality product and performer for $60. And vacuum consumers buy and like them. Check the side trailer here on WTBV. HOOVER Tempo is rated NUMBER ONE by users with a 100 percent rating (higher than dyson which is 8X the price). The same HOOVER TEMPO is rated in the top 10 year after year by Consumer Reports. And rated best buy by Amazon and a variety of other large Web site retailers. Why? Price and performance. Customer satisfaction. Dare I say quality? What word is better to use? RCWilley, supposedly the largest retailer in the Southwest for furniture, appliances, rugs, and electronics, is offering a promotion now for a free HOOVER Tempo giveaway with a carpet purchase of $999. ;) IN fact in a special edition color: Red. And we've had quite a few buyers here say they bought the HOOVER Tempo over other brands despite the price. The vacuum would easily sell as well for $100 or more. But costs only $60, sometimes less on sale. Why do I say this? It proves my point. High price is no more an indicator of quality than low price is of junk. Unless of course you are a Japanese consumer. They tend to think this way. Any wonder dyson loves to sell in Japan and does so well there! ;) Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by RAT on 07/10/07 at 11:00pm One reason that other companies can sell their vacuums so much cheaper than Dyson is that they know that they will have a steady income stream from the sale of filters, bags, and belts. Dyson's owners will pay in larger chunks - initial cost, spare filters, possible clutch assembly failures, etc. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by JimB on 07/10/07 at 11:49pm RAT wrote:
Your first sentence seems right out of a dyson playbook. However, Dyson spare filters are not necessary and if one buys a dyson today, that has a clutch, that clutch is warranty covered at no customer expense for 5 years. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/11/07 at 8:37am Hello JimB: If dyson spare filters are not needed, why do dyson and bootleggers sell them? If dysons were purchased between April 2002 and August 2006 (about a 4.5 YEARS dyson sales timeframe), are the clutches also covered for 5 years? Or just the dysons sold between Sept 2006 and currently: about a 10 MONTH dyson sales period. ;) Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Trilobite on 07/11/07 at 9:37pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
The Dyson filters will be made available for the incidences where the owner destroys the filter by melting it in the tumble drier, ripping it in the washer, and 1001 other scenarios. I suppose there will also be those folk (admittedly, a minority) who will never wash the filter, but insist on buying a new one when required. Or the ones who accidentally threw away the filter because they neglected to read the instructions. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 07/11/07 at 10:25pm Trilobite wrote:
The Dyson filters will be made available for the incidences where the owner destroys the filter by melting it in the tumble drier, ripping it in the washer, and 1001 other scenarios. I suppose there will also be those folk (admittedly, a minority) who will never wash the filter, but insist on buying a new one when required. Or the ones who accidentally threw away the filter because they neglected to read the instructions. [/quote] Or because some indy who hates Dyson feeds the consumer BS to sell filters. BTW, I recently went to Sears to buy a new Bissell Healthy Home. The Sears salesman told me numerous times that Dyson was the best vacuum that Sears sells. I guess he has never talked to one of the regulars on the forum so he has an uncluttered mind. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/11/07 at 10:27pm In over 50 years in the vacuum industry, I've never discovered a vacuum filter that lasts a "lifetime" without replacement. "Lifetime" filter is a non sequitur. With time, usage, wear and tear, carbon brush motor dusts, washing and drying, filters gradually deteriorate, shrink and degrade. Hence losing effectiveness. Filter replacements are a necessary and needed maintenance procedure for ALL VACUUMS if you want to keep the vacuum operating at peak performance. Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/11/07 at 10:39pm HARDSELL wrote:
Hello HARDSELL: I may have shared this with you by PM last year so forgive me if I'm repeating myself again on the Forum. When I first visited the local SEARS store here in North Las Vegas I was told the same by the SEARS vacuum salesman. The very same 16 year veteran who now tells me the DC18 dyson-lite tips over at least once a day. He dislikes it and the DC21. Here are some other "myths" that I frequently hear about and from dyson retailers: It's made in the UK. Ask 10 retailers, and inevitably 9 will say the UK. One will say I don't know. Dyson is rated number one by Consumer Reports. Dyson never needs maintenance and/or repairs. It will cost you nothing to use over its lifetime. Dyson NEVER loses suction and the filters never clog. It's the only vacuum with a 5 year warranty. All other vacuums have only a one year warranty. If the dyson needs repair under warranty, you can take it to any independent vacuum store and have it done. All these statements as you know are untrue. What's sad is, they are told these falsehoods by the dyson reps. I've been told that on many occasions. When I correct the seller on each and every point, in some cases by showing them proof, the sales "puffing" subsides and the real truth comes out. I may have mentioned at the time that some have even asked me if I am from their Corporate Office when I correct their sales puffing. It's sales puffing. That's all it is. Inflating the product to sell it by any means possible. Sellers have been doing this since the days of the travelling circuses with witch doctors selling wonder tonics and potions in a jar. Come on now HS, you're smarter than believing what a know nothing sales person tells you about a product at a big box retailer. Did I mention that some of the High School young men I teach are vacuum sales people at the local big box retailers? Do you think they know and care about vacuums? They're lucky if they can assemble them with the directions and demo correctly to a potential customer. Whose probably a woman [your favorite savvy buyer of vehicles]. Why? Most consumers don't know any better. They accept the words of the sellers as true and accurate. Until someone like you or me comes along and rattles their cages and asks for proof. Better still who shows them the proof which more than likely contradicts them. So tell us, why did you buy the BISSELL Healthy Home and not a dyson? Didn't the salesman tell you that dysons are the best vacuum SEARS sells? ;) Carmine D. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by HARDSELL on 07/11/07 at 10:54pm Carmine_Difazio wrote:
Hello HARDSELL: I may have shared this with you by PM last year so forgive me if I'm repeating myself again on the Forum. When I first visited the local SEARS store here in North Las Vegas I was told the same by the SEARS vacuum salesman. The very same 16 year veteran who now tells me the DC18 dyson-lite tips over at least once a day. He dislikes it and the DC21. Here are some other "myths" that I frequently hear about and from dyson retailers: It's made in the UK. Ask 10 retailers, and inevitably 9 will say the UK. One will say I don't know. Dyson is rated number one by Consumer Reports. Dyson never needs maintenance and/or repairs. It will cost you nothing to use over its lifetime. Dyson NEVER loses suction and the filters never clog. It's the only vacuum with a 5 year warranty. All other vacuums have only a one year warranty. If the dyson needs repair under warranty, you can take it to any independent vacuum store and have it done. All these statements as you know are untrue. When I correct the seller on each and every point, in some cases by showing them proof, the sales "puffing" subsides and the real truth comes out. I may have mentioned at the time that some have even asked me if I am from their Corporate Office when I correct their sales puffing. It's sales puffing. That's all it is. Inflating the product to sell it by any means possible. Sellers have been doing this since the days of the travelling circuses with wonder tonics and potions. Come on, your smarting than believing what a sales associate tells you at a big box retailer. Why? Most consumers don't know any better. They accept the words of the seller as true and accurate. Until someone like me comes along and rattles their cages and asks for proof. Better still shows them the proof which contradicts them. Carmine D. [/quote] The big box salesman who agreed with you was brilliant. The one who talked to me was a moron because he liked Dyson. Sounds like all three of you are puffing. I am also smart enough to know the BS fro fact that is posted so frequently. I have been wondering how good the suction is with the hose and tools on your Oreck. |
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Title: Re: Dyson Videos/Articles - for Dyson HATERS only Post by Carmine_Difazio on 07/11/07 at 11:05pm HARDSELL wrote:
Come on HARDSELL: You know ORECK doesn't have tools. And that's why I like it. I'm not a tool guy when it comes to vacuums. I prefer to use a vacuum for the floors and rugs and do the above the floor cleaning by hand. I told you that already. BTW, I replaced the paper bag in my ORECK today. I started using it on/around April 20 and have every day since. And today, July 11, I put a new paper bag in. The old bag was filled beyond the full line, almost to the top and all around the bag opening. No dust inside the outer bag jacket. No odor from the exhaust. No dust cloud. Took 10 seconds to change. I love it and highly recommend them to others all the time. Sales puffing. No. I don't sell ORECK's. I just buy and use one and give ORECKS for gifts to family and friends. Who like them too. Carmine D. |
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