Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Today I fortuitously stopped at the local Oreck dealer. 

Mike, the owner of several Oreck franchises and a few multi-brand stores had brought his new Edge upright from home, as stock had not arrived yet.

It has a more powerful motor, with a true  floating head. LED lights, infinite speed control AND and on-board stretch hose with a permanently attached telescopic crevice tool that is automatically active when the handle is in the upright position.  It lacks the Pilot's pivot head and the Halo's germ killing light. A model incorporating all three features is under development.  It is still easy to push, although it weighs 10 lb and requires a bit more effort than previous models.

There is a commercial OBT upright made by Stein (Sebo) that is very nice at only 450.00.  Oreck WILL be offering a bagless upright, but dealer participation is optional.  The new canister is color matched to the Edge and designed to be leaned on as the user vacuums stairs. Odd looking bare floor/crevice tool, no swivel neck. The bristles fold in to form the crevice tool, and the wand is inserted into a neck that curves more than 60 and less than 90 degrees, much like the OLD bare floor tools made of wood with the metal neck screwed on. A turbo tool is included and a dusting brush.

A cute little bagless canister is available for 49.99  Oreck has increased market share and has 89% brand recognition as a vacuum cleaner. They have become #1in  air purifier sales. (Mike did not say if that was dollar volume, or units or both.

The price of the Edge and matching canister will be about 750.00

Oreck is still marketing, still developing product, and still building a loyal customer base.

HARDSELL wrote:

A well known fact, like the dyson ASA rulings and findings, that are not true. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Both bagged and bagless have advantages and disadvantages.   Hardsell's new Hoover Platinum lightweight uses bags that cost nearly $5 a piece.  Yes bags are convenient.  Yes bags are sanitary. 

Rainbow and Filter Queen have also pitched bagless over bagged.  Certainly most shop vacs are bagless.  Many commercial vacuums have shakeout bags. 

There have always been people willing to get up and personal with dirt to save a couple bucks.    Compared to some of the pleated filter in the canister models by some competitors, Dysons are relatively easy to clean and maintain. 

While I prefer the convenience of bags, I have no problem with someone else preferring a bagless system.  My mother in law is certainly happy with her 30 year old Rainbow.  If you vacuum up a small toy with a bagless vacuum, it's likely easier to retrieve from a bagless vacuum than a bagged. 

Severus wrote:
Why do you think my mother wont get rid of the Dirt Devil Dynammite? The paper pleated cone may well clog with dust and hair, but she always manages to find the backings to her earrings which are forever falling on the floor of her bedroom. The metal bits tend to languish at the bottom and when circling around she knows instantly when metal has been collected up by the noise.

Severus wrote:

Thanks SEVERUS.  Silly me.  I thought Sir James invented the first bagless vacuum.  What was I thinking? 

Carmine D.

Severus wrote:

Hi Severus,

Just to state fact, Filter Queen is hard for me to think of as "bagless".  They can run a long between dumpings but each time you dump a fresh cellulose filter cone must be put in place. The costs of genuine filter cones, pre-filters and carbon odor filters can vary depending on where you find them. Therefore there is cost of use comparable to a bagged vac.  The cost for Rainbow is no more than the two quarts or gallon of water on your water bill each time you fill the machine.

Venson

Dont know about you Venson, but when it comes to emptying, you have to be careful; dust with water in it can clog drains although I'd imagine most would either dump the dusty water down the toilet or chuck it in the garden.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi vacumanuk,

I always dumped Rexair and Rainbow water pans at the toilet.    Everything goes down and later washing and rinsing of the separator and water pan at the kitchen sink -- sacralige to some -- was one, two, three.

Venson

Venson wrote:
To me bagged means the dirt is contained within a disposable sack (paper, clothlike, whatever) that can be removed from the vacuum and dropped into the trash.  I've never used a Filter Queen, but my impression is that it's a lot like emptying a shop vac.  By my definition, I consider a vacuum with a cloth shake out bag to be "bagless" because it doesn't have a disposable paper bag. 

Severus wrote:

Hi,

No disagreement in that Filter Queen does hold dust gathered loose in its collection bin.  What I meant is that bagless as we speak of it today, Dyson as an instance, implies that there is no additional cost beyond the purchase price.  With Filter Queen there definitely is because of the requirement for replacement of used filtering filtering medium with new upon each emptying. 

As far as I recall per industry jargon, cloth bags are listed as permanent bags and non-reusable bags made of paper, etc., are "disposable".  By way of process of collection, a permanent-bagged Electrolux XXX is bagged as it uses a bag to trap the dust and dirt it takes in. 

Other cleaners like Fairfax, Lewyt and Silver King (back in the day), also emulated Filter Queen by employing flat or cone shaped filters above or in the collection bin.  All those filters had tobe purchased on a regular basis.  Nilfisk and Hitachi, I believe, still provide a model or two with cleanable and reusable cloth filters and collection bins  that may fit them in the bagless category as in their case there's no cost beyond purchase.

Best,

Venson

Severus, Venson & all

Interesting perspectives on bagged and bagless.  To add too, paper bags inside the cloth in the 50's brands and models before paper alone where either could be the dust containment.  Not sure how these would be categorized by today's perspective.  Tho we have the same today [actaully early 2000's].  HOOVER's dual V with bin/bag and both. 

I still use a Hoover Swingette with cloth and replacement N style paper bags.  That is until the bag supply ends.

Not sure any other bagless/quasi bagless brand made the selling point of saving money w/o using paper bags save Lewyt which went away for good. 

Carmine D.