Today I fortuitously stopped at the local Oreck dealer. 

Mike, the owner of several Oreck franchises and a few multi-brand stores had brought his new Edge upright from home, as stock had not arrived yet.

It has a more powerful motor, with a true  floating head. LED lights, infinite speed control AND and on-board stretch hose with a permanently attached telescopic crevice tool that is automatically active when the handle is in the upright position.  It lacks the Pilot's pivot head and the Halo's germ killing light. A model incorporating all three features is under development.  It is still easy to push, although it weighs 10 lb and requires a bit more effort than previous models.

There is a commercial OBT upright made by Stein (Sebo) that is very nice at only 450.00.  Oreck WILL be offering a bagless upright, but dealer participation is optional.  The new canister is color matched to the Edge and designed to be leaned on as the user vacuums stairs. Odd looking bare floor/crevice tool, no swivel neck. The bristles fold in to form the crevice tool, and the wand is inserted into a neck that curves more than 60 and less than 90 degrees, much like the OLD bare floor tools made of wood with the metal neck screwed on. A turbo tool is included and a dusting brush.

A cute little bagless canister is available for 49.99  Oreck has increased market share and has 89% brand recognition as a vacuum cleaner. They have become #1in  air purifier sales. (Mike did not say if that was dollar volume, or units or both.

The price of the Edge and matching canister will be about 750.00

Oreck is still marketing, still developing product, and still building a loyal customer base.

What is the new Flash Vac System? http://www.oreck.com/uv-c-products/flash-vac.cfm

Venson

Hi Venson:

Nice concept and product.  Hand held portable canister with UV-C technology now part of the ORECK repertoire.  But $400 is ridiculously high.  Once it comes down to say $200, maybe a consideration especially for hotels/motels ORECK's traditional mass market venue.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

I thought the same thing.  Nice but way too high in price.  However, I'd be just as interested in it without the UV thing.  Unfortuantely I saw no specs.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

I would too.  I like the portable cann with attachments less the UV-C tool for cleaning above the floor on a ladder.  Perhaps ORECK plans a model more reasonably priced w/o the UV-C tool for the general buying public versus motels/hotels.  Or in combo with its uprights. 

Carmine D.

Trebor wrote:
So how does the commercial "Oreck" compare to Sebo uprights?

So who will be making the bagless upright?  It would be something if Oreck contracted with Dyson to make an bagless Oreck...

Severus wrote:

Hello SEVERUS:

The local hotel/Casino requested bids for vacuums when it opened in November 2007.  ORECK and SEBO made the cut so the locals had a match off.  The performances were so close, while the prices so divergent, that the casino execs split the buy evenly: ORECK and SEBO.  I see the staff using the vacuums equally and satisfied. 

Your suggestion is a good one.  The problem is one I raised awhile back with dyson.  Sir James would have to eat crow after his bad mouthing of bagged vacuum makers.  It was a stupid business approach on dyson's part.  Has come and will continue to haunt him. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I think a bagless Oreck with utilizing features from both Oreck and Dyson could be ideal.  Oreck could  help Dyson to be more user friendly.

CarmineD wrote:

Reminds me of the consultant who advised the client to keep away from Dyson.

Severus wrote:

Oreck might also get a vacuum that deep cleans as part of the deal.

Read your PM.

Frankly I don't think it is wise for Oreck to consider any bagless system - they have always pride themselves as a bagged vacuum cleaner company and how they would get around suggesting a bagless vacuum can sit in their family range of "healthy" vacuums is beyond me.

vacmanuk wrote:

Could it be because sales are lagging for bagged?  Local stores only have about 1 bagged out of every 10 display machines.  Bags are also not so abundant as in the past.

vacmanuk wrote:

Oreck is a very well run company.  They will sell whatever sells.   While the bagged lightweights will always be their bread and butter, they certainly see opportunties to sell bagless.  If Oreck thinks they can make money selling Dyson Orecks, they will do it in a minute.   Oreck is a master at marketing.   Oreck may spar with other companies, but they adapt to the times.  Perhaps the bagless Oreck will have a more sanitary system for emptying.  

I did not see the Flash Vac in the store, and I'm sure Mike would have shown it to me. He also mentioned that he is not going to carry the bagless upright. It is dealer's option for the moment.
I noticed there were no Dutch Tech canisters in the store. They are not  a big seller in the Midwest. Oreck also has a competitor to the shark VX sweeper.  The Oreck/Sebo is not at all attractive, has a thicker body, and the brushroll does not pop out sans tools. But Oreck does their research and I expect it will do well. Oreck also has Sanitaire clones (made by them for all I know)

Awareness of Oreck stores lags far behind awareness of their brand.  But they are gaining market share. Dyson's huge favor to Oreck was to increase awareness of vacuums in the 500.00 category, far above the BBR price points, and way,way below the DTD brands. Oreck is positioning themselves well. They repair all brands, a huge plus if the store is not near any local repair shops, they offer cleaning products that people return to purchase again and again, and they sell bags to all those customers who bought direct and from QVC.  Smart moves.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine

Perhaps at first i see it being used by staff...something new and cool. but eventually i see it sitting on a cart/shelf somewhere in housekeeping...the xtra time it would take to use/ xtra time required to do a room and have ready for guest....a niche product possibly for those with a maid and plenty of time...but do you really see the housekeeping staff actually going that xta-xtra mile....to use....just a thought.

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:

Hi turtle,

I was thinking on the lines of just plain old household duty in a private residence, not a commercial setting.  It's kin to a backpack vacuum.  This particular machine weighs about eight pounds and comes with a shoulder strap.  You could walk around with it or even comfortably climb a step-stool or ladder if you needed to reach.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson

In the home i see it working.....put to good use and cared for.

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:

I envision cleaning staff using the UV-C tool of this vacuum on the matresses and hotels/motels pitching this as a marketing feature to sell their room stays and prices.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I see your point..a good one at that. But makes you wonder if they will actually use it....high/higher end rooms i can...id also wonder about its durability...the bulbs and the abuse/beating the unit would take in a commercial hotel settings...L.V...would be the place for it...nice hotels .

turtles

HARDSELL wrote:

I was asked and advised the Casino/Hotel buyers to avoid bagless vacuums in their purchases.  It was easy to justify the list of potential vacuum makers and I used the criteria that the company's management and purchasing agenst established.  The technical requirements were:  The Carpet and Rug Institute of approval, energy efficient, and not exceed weight limitations.  Dyson didn't make the first cut not just fro bagless but these other technical requirements. 

Carmine D.

retardturtle1 wrote:

Very easy to verify and know.  Lights are readily available that show before and after results with UV-C technology for vacuuming.  Supervisory cleaning staff could use the hand held lights quickly and easily to determine if the cleaning staff used the UV-C cleaning tool on mattresses and bedding covers.

Carmine D.

Severus wrote:

Agree SEVERUS.  The fact that ORECK beat out other vacuum companies to acquire the UV-C halo rights from Ken Garcia epitomizes your point.  ORECK was dissed by the big vacuum brands and industry when it launched its 8 pound lightweight in the market of 25 pound upright vacuums.  Dave knows first hand the sensitivity to be open minded to innovation.  Like UV-C technology and bagless.  Why?  Good business man in addition to good vacuum man.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine

Imust say im anxious to see an oreck bagless....curious if it will be an in-house design ...solving the problems of current and past bagless issues..or will he buy a past design a lable it.....like the [dutch tech] ...would like to his own spin on this one...a true oreck in house design.

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:

Turtle;

Check out the ORECK site if you haven't lately.  Already has a bagless portable cann called the Little Hero that retails for $130.  Lightweight vacuums and portables, like stick and handhelds, are better models/products for bagless dirt containment systems than full size IMHO.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

How much effort was made by other companies to acquire the halo rights?  Good business is not always good for the consumer.  Oreck has made a fortune on a sweeper with no deep cleaning power.  If hotels and casinos had deep pile they would be filthy. 

Seal of Approval / Green Label Vacuum - Certified Vacuums View All               Select a SOA Program » Cleaning Solutions » Deep Cleaning Extractors » Deep Cleaning Systems » Vacuums       All Product Types » Backpack » Canister » Central System » Upright » Wide Area     All Product Usages » Household » Commercial » Household & Commerical     All Manufacturers » Advance » Alfrd Karcher GmbH & Co KG » Clarke » Electrolux Home Care Products NA » Eureka Electrolux Home Care Products NA » Garry Vacuum, LLC » Hawk Enterprises » Hoover Company » IMIG, Inc » Kent-Euroclean » Koblenz Electrica S.A. de C.V. » Minuteman International, Inc. » Nobles Industries (Tennant Co.) » NSS Enterprises, Inc. » Panasonic Commercial Vacuum Cleaners » PowrFlite » ProTeam » Riccar - Div. Tacony Corporation » Royal Appliance Manufacturing, Co. » Rubbermaid Commercial Products LLC » Simplicity - Div. Tacony Corporation » Tennant Co. » The Oreck Manufacturing Company » Tornado - Div Tacony Corporation » Triple S » Unisource Worldwide, Inc » Vac Pro - Div Tacony Corporation » Windsor Industries » WMJ Refurbish Center LLC   Model/Configuration Usage/Type Provider/Manufacturer    RU2250R Standard Filtration Inner Bag – Cloth Outer Bag Household & Commercial Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website    RU3770H Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website    RU4150H Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website    RU7000E Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/E3 Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website   U2000 Classic Standard Filtration Inner Bag – Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website    U2160 Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website    U2250R Standard Filtration Inner Bag – Cloth Outer Bag Household & Commercial Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website   U3700 Silver Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website    U3770COST Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website    U3770H Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website    U3771 Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website   U3773HHFL Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website   U3773HHGA Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website   U3773HHLSU Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website   U3773HHOSU Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website   U3773HHTN Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website   U3773HHTX Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website   U3773HHTXAM Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website   U4100 Gold Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website    U4150H Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website    U4160 Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website   U7000 Platinum Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/E3 Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website    U7000E Odor fighting - Hypo Allergenic Inner Bag/E3 Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website   XL Series Type ''CC'' Inner Bag, Cloth Outer Bag Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website   Model/Configuration Usage/Type Provider/Manufacturer   Halo 100 Cloth outer shell, Type HL cloth inner bag, HEPA outer filter Household Upright The Oreck Manufacturing Company Cookeville, TN 800-289-5888 Visit Website 25 Product(s) Found » back to top

SEVERUS et al:

While bagless may attract/appeal for home use, it is quite the opposite for hotels/casinos.  Cleaning staff use vacuums in clear and constant view of all the clients and customers.  Seeing dirt in see-thru bins is not attractive to patrons readying for meals drinks and entertainment.   Sends the wrong message.  How dirty are these establishments and do we really want to patronize them?  Laws and sausage, as Mark Twain said, are better served without people seeing and knowing how they are made.  Since this is impossible for hotels and casinos that operate 24/7, ORECK and SEBO bagged uprights [as well as other bagged brands] are ideal for patron scrutiny.  In fact, sends the message, these business establishments are very concerned about cleanliness and customer health.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I have doubts that as many as 1% notice what brand vac is being used. They are there to gamble and not to critique vacuums.  My concern would be the cleanliness of the food prep area.  They certainly do not want you to view that area.

Seeing a vacuum with mediocre performance would send the wrong message to me.  I would rather see the dirt in a Dyson or other bagless than to know that the deepest of dirt was still in the carpet.

YMMV.

CarmineD wrote:

I think the biggest vacuum problem is maintenance.  I have seldom seen janitorial staff anywhere all that interested in taking care of machinery.  A bagless vac care woud mean checking and cleaning filters and emptying as needed.  What I have become accustomed to seeing are vacuums that are dogged 'til they die.  I distinctly remember coming down from my office after work every night and see one of the building custodians pushing a Sanitaire that need a new belt.  I heard it, he didn't.  Nonetheless, he'd push it about until he felt satisfied that the rug was "clean."  That never changed and it was months beforee the vacuum happened to be replaced.

If I were in business, I'd follow the least path of resistance and go for either permanent or disposable bags and -- thinking business -- I'd probably  go for permanent bags unless there's some law that's mandated HEPA vacs in public venues.  If time is money then I would want to opt for vacuums that can take a lot of knocking around by careless employees who don't give a hoot about aesthetics.  Most simply want to get the job done and go home.  Nor would I want to overly invest time in paying supervisory staff to ride shotgun on vacuum checks when their time might well be better used elsewhere in the venue.

I would submit, as far as deep cleaning is concerned it doesn't matter.  A housekeeper in these cases often walks into a room or area and is satisfied as long as surface appearance is good.  The bosses of these people feel the same way.  They take a walk through and the floor "looks" clean, thay don't worry about anything else.

Thoroughness costs money and money matters are best served by buying whatever is durable and easy to clean and that by manuafcture lends to resistance to wear.

Venson

Venson wrote:

I have said time and again that Orecks are not used in offices and hotels for cleaning ability.  They are bought only for the reasons as you stated.

I never feel that hotel/motel carpets are clean.  I will not tolerate my home feeling that way.

HARDSELL wrote:
In my opinion, the vacuum brand is less important in commercial settings than the carpet cleaning schedule.  Hot water extraction methods are important for making hotels/casinos carpeting clean - particularly with all the smoking that goes on in casinos.  I would think that the noise level would be very important in a casino as well.  the Sebos are relatively quiet.  Sebo/Windsor vacuums are very popular in hospitals for being quiet, having good filtration, and being durable.  

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Dumping dirt bins was also one of the concerns that the Casino/hotel management had with their cleaning staffs and bagless vacuums.  The staff are always neat and clean in the uniform dress of the casino/hotel.  The concern was bagless requires frequent dumping which would be messy for all users and on users.  There are maintenance people on staff and location tasked with keeping the vacuums ready for work daily.  Bagged vacuums are much easier maintenance wise for this work arrangement than bagless.  WRT permanent bagged, EUREKA Sanitaire made the cut tho over the weight limit preferred.  These are still in consideration for purchase with the next major vacuum buy.

Carmine D.

Severus wrote:

SEVERUS:

Very true.  Rug cleaning is an ongoing maintenance task.  All casinos allow drinks and food at the machines.  Along with smoking.  The combo, drinking and eating and smoking, are a recipe for messes.  All of which are dealt with quickly by cleaning staff.  Noise is not that big an issue in the main casino areas.  Why?  Noise levels are already very high with large screen sport event TV's, loud speaker announcements, constant music playing, noisey slot machines etc.  The exceptions are the poker playing rooms and bingo rooms where noise is kept to absolute minimum.

The casino and hotel and pool are all colocated and accessible to patrons through inside hallways and outside walkways.  There are meeting rooms and break out areas where noise may/may not be at issue.  Obviously, during the meetings, no clean up staff are allowed inside unless an emergency like a food mess.  Oftentimes food and drink for breakfast and breaks are included in the price of the meeting space and provided in the meeting rooms .  During breaks and in the designated break out areas, the noise levels are not a concern and cleaning staffs are always at work throughout the day. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Do you happen to know the median or even average time to failure for Oreck's versus Sebo's in the casino environment?  How many years before they rebuild or replace their vacuums?

I'm assuming that one reason Dysons don't make the cut is that they don't make a commercial unit with heavy duty motor and safety features.  Presumably a commercial unit wouldn't need such a long hose, and possibly no need for a brush roll shutoff and clutch.  Carl the former poster, seemed pleased with Dysons used in his dry cleaning business.  If I had a choice between emptying a huge cloth bag or dumping a Dyson dirt container, I think I'd take the Dyson even if it was more frequent. 

Severus wrote:

Nothing worse than a shakeout bag...i totally agree. at one time carried them...now its bag only or we can order....they dont sell very well at all so we did the change over.

most that bought them...got rid of the shake out ...real soon.

all the various commercial bagless versions ive seen/used/serviced  have yet to last...all dead within a year of hard use. xcept the santr dirt cup....eventually changed over to paper.

turtle

Severus wrote:

Hello SEVERUS:

You're right.  Dyson doesn't provide a warranty on any of its vacuum products for commercial usage.  A product warranty was another technical requirement of the casino/hotel vacuum purchase.  Dyson didn't make the cut for that reason too.  

I was engaged professionally to assist with the initial casino/hotel vacuum purchase. I have not been involved on a personal or professional level since the buy.  I won't unless I'm officially engaged to do so, which may happen in the future.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Camine

Didnt ddvl have one kinda like that?.....i guess i kinda expected more.  any motor /perf specs on those small cans...that bagless seems like a bad idea....

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:

Yes the Dirt Devil Vision bagless for $110.  Not a very good picture but best I found to show the little likeness to the Little Hero. 

retardturtle1 wrote:

Here's the EUREKA Sanitaire with F&G paper bags in an outer cloth:

This does not have the CRI seal but similar EUREKA commercial models did.  $140 MSRP  Meets OSHA requirements for commercial use and warranty.  Didn't make the weight cut off but close and may still be considered for future bulk buys. 

Carmine D.

Severus wrote:

Also, SEVERUS....churches.  I know of several cleaning and maintenance companies that specialize in cleaning churches.  The staff use Windsor upright vacuums exclusively for their church cleaning and vacuuming.  The clean up staff can perform their normal duties while church members conduct non-worship activities in the church without worrying about vacuum noise interference/distractions.

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine

In the cri im surprised that the commercial sanitaires/eureka either didnt show up or werent chosen gold standard....did any dyson or  8925/55 /20 ect riccar ever top the charts....anyway to all cri approved vacs of the past?

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:

Few vacuum makers take the CRI seal of approval as serious as Dave Oreck.  ORECK has always been top rated by CRI since the entity started its program some 30 plus years ago.  ORECK had to take it serious because it was fighting with the big dogs for market share.  Dave knew this was a way to make his mark in the USA vacuum industry and he has every year.  When CRI tightened up its requirements a few years back after revamping and updating its testing, ORECK was the first to get all its upright vacuums, home and commercial, queued up for CRI approvals.  Not just a few but ALL.  Costs the vacuum makers to submit their products to CRI for testing and approval.

Many EUREKA Sanitaires are approved by CRI.  But EUREKA IMHO does not choose to submit all its upright vacuums for CRI testing and approval.  No dysons are CRI approved.  Never have been.  The closest dyson ever got to any CRI association was a picture of a DC14 on the CRI Web site years ago.  This lead some to opine and believe that dyson would be approved by CRI.    Didn't materialize. 

RICCAR and SIMPLICITY have their products, both ups and canns, approved by CRI.  Not sure what levels of approvals and seals.  I'm sure they do well.  Each higher level granted I believe calls for passing more CRI testing requirements.  GOLD is the highest.  All ORECK's upright vacuums except the bronze rated halo, rate GOLD which means the full blown set of tests.  Ironically, the halo is not ORECK grown but an acquisition from Ken Garcia for the UV-C technology. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Few vacuum makers take the CRI seal of approval as serious as Dave Oreck.  ORECK has always been top rated by CRI since the entity started its program some 30 plus years ago.  ORECK had to take it serious because it was fighting with the big dogs for market share.  Dave knew this was a way to make his mark in the USA vacuum industry and he has every year.  When CRI tightened up its requirements a few years back after revamping and updating its testing, ORECK was the first to get all its upright vacuums, home and commercial, queued up for CRI approvals.  Not just a few but ALL.  Costs the vacuum makers to submit their products to CRI for testing and approval.

Many EUREKA Sanitaires are approved by CRI.  But EUREKA IMHO does not choose to submit all its upright vacuums for CRI testing and approval.  No dysons are CRI approved.  Never have been.  The closest dyson ever got to any CRI association was a picture of a DC14 on the CRI Web site years ago.  This lead some to opine and believe that dyson would be approved by CRI.    Didn't materialize. 

RICCAR and SIMPLICITY have their products, both ups and canns, approved by CRI.  Not sure what levels of approvals and seals.  I'm sure they do well.  Each higher level granted I believe calls for passing more CRI testing requirements.  GOLD is the highest.  All ORECK's upright vacuums except the bronze rated halo, rate GOLD which means the full blown set of tests.  Ironically, the halo is not ORECK grown but an acquisition from Ken Garcia for the UV-C technology. 

Carmine D.

Dyson has no CRI approval.  Yet it out sells most if not  all that have it.  Why bother with the expanse.  Reminds me of THX approval.  Most non THX products perform as good or better.

Excerpted this from the CRI site, turtle:

Seal of Approval / Green Label Vacuum - Certified Vacuums

View All
Select a SOA Program » Cleaning Solutions » Deep Cleaning Extractors » Deep Cleaning Systems » Vacuums
All Product Types » Backpack » Canister » Central System » Upright » Wide Area			All Product Usages » Household » Commercial » Household & Commerical			All Manufacturers » Advance » Alfrd Karcher GmbH & Co KG » Clarke » Electrolux Home Care Products NA » Eureka Electrolux Home Care Products NA » Garry Vacuum, LLC » Hawk Enterprises » Hoover Company » IMIG, Inc » Kent-Euroclean » Koblenz Electrica S.A. de C.V. » Minuteman International, Inc. » Nobles Industries (Tennant Co.) » NSS Enterprises, Inc. » Panasonic Commercial Vacuum Cleaners » PowrFlite » ProTeam » Riccar - Div. Tacony Corporation » Royal Appliance Manufacturing, Co. » Rubbermaid Commercial Products LLC » Simplicity - Div. Tacony Corporation » Tennant Co. » The Oreck Manufacturing Company » Tornado - Div Tacony Corporation » Triple S » Unisource Worldwide, Inc » Vac Pro - Div Tacony Corporation » Windsor Industries » WMJ Refurbish Center LLC

» back to top

For SIMPLICITY from CRI site, turtle

Seal of Approval / Green Label Vacuum - Certified Vacuums

View All
Select a SOA Program » Cleaning Solutions » Deep Cleaning Extractors » Deep Cleaning Systems » Vacuums
All Product Types » Backpack » Canister » Central System » Upright » Wide Area			All Product Usages » Household » Commercial » Household & Commerical			All Manufacturers » Advance » Alfrd Karcher GmbH & Co KG » Clarke » Electrolux Home Care Products NA » Eureka Electrolux Home Care Products NA » Garry Vacuum, LLC » Hawk Enterprises » Hoover Company » IMIG, Inc » Kent-Euroclean » Koblenz Electrica S.A. de C.V. » Minuteman International, Inc. » Nobles Industries (Tennant Co.) » NSS Enterprises, Inc. » Panasonic Commercial Vacuum Cleaners » PowrFlite » ProTeam » Riccar - Div. Tacony Corporation » Royal Appliance Manufacturing, Co. » Rubbermaid Commercial Products LLC » Simplicity - Div. Tacony Corporation » Tennant Co. » The Oreck Manufacturing Company » Tornado - Div Tacony Corporation » Triple S » Unisource Worldwide, Inc » Vac Pro - Div Tacony Corporation » Windsor Industries » WMJ Refurbish Center LLC

» back to top

Hello turtle:

Interestingly, Tacony, RICCAR/SIMPLICITY, takes the CRI seal seriously too.  Just as ORECK does.  The list of brand names who are CRI approved is impressive and appears to be growing year over year.  I opine that MIELE which is expanding its vacuum market in the USA with uprights and is not CRI approved will have to consider being approved. 

The ORECK Pilot, the latest and greatest upright in the ORECK reportoire, has the CRI seal of approval on the ORECK web site but not on the CRI web site.  There is a time lag for CRI updating its site.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Do you think that the Miele performs as good as or better thatn the other brands you mentioned?

Of course, with the exception of Miele, aren't all the other brands American?

Turtle:  From the CRI site for EUREKA products:  Of note, if you check the Commercial line of vacuums on ORECK's web site you'll see several [3 I believe] Sanitaire uprights that have ORECK brand names.  Probably a partnership in line with what SEVERUS mentioned fro dyson and ORECK.

Carmine D. 

Seal of Approval / Green Label Vacuum - Certified Vacuums

View All
Select a SOA Program » Cleaning Solutions » Deep Cleaning Extractors » Deep Cleaning Systems » Vacuums
All Product Types » Backpack » Canister » Central System » Upright » Wide Area			All Product Usages » Household » Commercial » Household & Commerical			All Manufacturers » Advance » Alfrd Karcher GmbH & Co KG » Clarke » Electrolux Home Care Products NA » Eureka Electrolux Home Care Products NA » Garry Vacuum, LLC » Hawk Enterprises » Hoover Company » IMIG, Inc » Kent-Euroclean » Koblenz Electrica S.A. de C.V. » Minuteman International, Inc. » Nobles Industries (Tennant Co.) » NSS Enterprises, Inc. » Panasonic Commercial Vacuum Cleaners » PowrFlite » ProTeam » Riccar - Div. Tacony Corporation » Royal Appliance Manufacturing, Co. » Rubbermaid Commercial Products LLC » Simplicity - Div. Tacony Corporation » Tennant Co. » The Oreck Manufacturing Company » Tornado - Div Tacony Corporation » Triple S » Unisource Worldwide, Inc » Vac Pro - Div Tacony Corporation » Windsor Industries » WMJ Refurbish Center LLC

» back to top

vacmanuk wrote:

CRI approved brands are sold in the American market.  If you click on the ALL MANUFACTURERS cell you'll get all the vacuum brands included in the CRI program. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Few vacuum makers take the CRI seal of approval as serious as Dave Oreck.  ORECK has always been top rated by CRI since the entity started its program some 30 plus years ago.  ORECK had to take it serious because it was fighting with the big dogs for market share.  Dave knew this was a way to make his mark in the USA vacuum industry and he has every year.  When CRI tightened up its requirements a few years back after revamping and updating its testing, ORECK was the first to get all its upright vacuums, home and commercial, queued up for CRI approvals.  Not just a few but ALL.  Costs the vacuum makers to submit their products to CRI for testing and approval.

Many EUREKA Sanitaires are approved by CRI.  But EUREKA IMHO does not choose to submit all its upright vacuums for CRI testing and approval.  No dysons are CRI approved.  Never have been.  The closest dyson ever got to any CRI association was a picture of a DC14 on the CRI Web site years ago.  This lead some to opine and believe that dyson would be approved by CRI.    Didn't materialize. 

RICCAR and SIMPLICITY have their products, both ups and canns, approved by CRI.  Not sure what levels of approvals and seals.  I'm sure they do well.  Each higher level granted I believe calls for passing more CRI testing requirements.  GOLD is the highest.  All ORECK's upright vacuums except the bronze rated halo, rate GOLD which means the full blown set of tests.  Ironically, the halo is not ORECK grown but an acquisition from Ken Garcia for the UV-C technology. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Few vacuum makers take the CRI seal of approval as serious as Dave Oreck.  ORECK has always been top rated by CRI since the entity started its program some 30 plus years ago.  ORECK had to take it serious because it was fighting with the big dogs for market share.  Dave knew this was a way to make his mark in the USA vacuum industry and he has every year.  When CRI tightened up its requirements a few years back after revamping and updating its testing, ORECK was the first to get all its upright vacuums, home and commercial, queued up for CRI approvals.  Not just a few but ALL.  Costs the vacuum makers to submit their products to CRI for testing and approval.

Many EUREKA Sanitaires are approved by CRI.  But EUREKA IMHO does not choose to submit all its upright vacuums for CRI testing and approval.  No dysons are CRI approved.  Never have been.  The closest dyson ever got to any CRI association was a picture of a DC14 on the CRI Web site years ago.  This lead some to opine and believe that dyson would be approved by CRI.    Didn't materialize. 

RICCAR and SIMPLICITY have their products, both ups and canns, approved by CRI.  Not sure what levels of approvals and seals.  I'm sure they do well.  Each higher level granted I believe calls for passing more CRI testing requirements.  GOLD is the highest.  All ORECK's upright vacuums except the bronze rated halo, rate GOLD which means the full blown set of tests.  Ironically, the halo is not ORECK grown but an acquisition from Ken Garcia for the UV-C technology. 

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine

thanks for the info....wondered about that new brushroll that dyson did so much r&d on....along with the air muscle tech...if it really is that much better than earlier dysons..to justify the cost.

Always knew on the commercial to low pile carpets that the orecks did very good...ive seen this first hand over the years.

I was just curious about if cri /c rpts had some archives as to all the vacuums tested over the last 10-15 years or so...and how they did...for fun....thanks again for the info.

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:

Turtle:  Dyson's DC28 is a vast improvement over all previous dyson models primarily due to the brush roll adjustments which is called Airmuscle technology.  4 settings.  low, medium, deep and barefloor which shuts off the brush roll.  You can tell and feel the differences in each rug setting during use.  If you haven't tried one, you should.  DC28 automatically defaults to medium when it is turned on and requires human manual adjustment.  Just like any other vacuum rug adjustment.  Cost is $599.  Steep for providing what's already the status quo in the industry, namely rug height adjustments.  Most dyson retailers are offering incentives on DC28 now with purchase.  Should be able to easily find for $500 plus dyson giveaways.  After the big box retailers' incentives on the older dyson models sell off enough stores' inventory, DC28 will be offered at lower prices and with buyers' incentives to sell.  It's dyson's TOL upright so the high price is status quo now for a little while longer. 

ORECK'S function well on all styles and heights of carpets except for very high shag.  Difficult to push and pull even at only 8 pounds.  The new Pilot is it's latest and greatest.  If you haven't tried one yet, you should.  Handles nicely.  Gives the user alot more lateral movement around and under furniture.  If you haven't watched the video on the ORECK web site, you might want to view it. 

Not sure about what's available on-line for past CRI and CR ratings.  Probably catalogued and available to members/subscribers and the general public for a fee.  Just don't know.  However, both entities have revamped and updated their test criteria over the years.  Except for nostalgia and historic purposes, and possibly brand trends, the old information is no longer relevant to today's buyers and circumstances.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

The Pilot is no longer the latest and greatest from Oreck,. That designation now belongs to The Edge, which I described in the post which began this thread. More power, you can feel it grab the carpet, true floating head design, and of course the very convenient telescopic crevice wand/hose arrangement. I do believe this new  Oreck could hold its own against a Sanitaire or a Kirby.

Regards,

Trebor

Trebor wrote:

Thanks Trebor.  I haven't seen it yet and it's not on the ORECK web site yet.  Looking forward to both.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Ilooked at the airmuscle tech....seems like an over coplicated height adj. ..but im also still partial to a floating head .wonder if a dc7 would perform as well if it had the 28;s type brushroll? With $500-600 price range and all its new tech yet some say it still cant deep clean, I look forward to checking one out..thats not tied down. perhaps the next time im at sears.But would love to test against a shark nav, side by side and actually see the results for myself tho.  

I havent been to the oreck store in some time...saw a nice big one in savannah while on vacation...that was a no go tho. ill ask them about the newer one and try to get some info on it while i check out whats there the next time im in chatt, tenn.  so whats your views on the xl21's....youve not said alot about them nor have i ever used one outside of the shop...hows it size up versus the rest of the oreck line up?

Thanks anyway for your input on the ratings and all,,,just curios how my 8925 scored.....but by luck and right place right time.....while doing inventory  my boss and i ran across a radiance today...had been put up and forgotten about for over a year...was a return used a couple months, ,,,owner gifted to me so i look forward to doing alot more research on this one. so id say its been a pretty good day.

turtle

HARDSELL wrote:

One would hope with what they cost..never had one come my way to ever try out. In this area bosch and riccar are not well known.....many never knew panasonic made vacs.

But one would think that with  vacuum companies paying to have the cri..ect to test/evaluate and publish results that it would be somewhat biased...in favor of those paying. did they ever at any time pick at random and test without anyone paying for the testing.....could some vac companies just not trust or know more about  what really goes on with the cri,,, and dont feel the need to have that seal?that its poss. not unbiased.

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:

I purchased a RICCAR 8900 from an indie friend that was a display model.  It is a terrific rug cleaner.  Maintenance free almost.  Just belts on occasion, bags and bulbs.  

Carmine D. 

retardturtle1 wrote:

Recently vacmanuk made the same observation about the British Allergy Foundation which certifies European vacuums as asthma and allergy friendly.  The question to answer is this:  Can entities like BAF and CRI and Good Housekeeping provide a useful consumer service.

Carmine D. 

retardturtle1 wrote:

Just to provide a post script.  Consumer Reports does what you suggest.  CR tests and rates products without the brands providing them free and antying up money for the service.  You see the mixed reviews CR gets.  It's an imperfect world.  Perfection is to be strived for but rarely attained.  As SEVERUS points out CR is enhancing their own reviews and ratings with on-line customers' feedback.  CR is going the extra mile to refine and improve its consumer effectiveness.  Kudoes to CR for doing so. 

Carmine D.

Carmine,

While the Edge may appear on the website soon,  it is supposed to be a dealer exclusive to sell. If I were adding deep pile carpet to my home instead of removing it, I would consider the Edge.

CarmineD wrote:

CR is taking a real risk allowing consumers to provide vacuum reviews that in many cases whine about their vacuum not doing as well as it should in CR's tests.   As a famous radio host says, it's a real career risk to turn the job over to amateurs.  Amateurs do NOT use carefully designed studies with strict standardization of methodology and replication.   Although youtube.com has been flooded with vacuum comparison videos, I've yet to see one that provides meaningful tests to compare 2 vacuums.   Most people just aren't familiar with what it takes to design a valid experiment with randomization, replication, and standardization of procedures.  They assume that if one vacuum picks up dirt that was missed by the first vacuum, that the second one is better.  Since no vacuum removes all of the dirt from carpeting, it's just not a valid test.   A fair test gives each vacuum an equal opportunity to perform under the same conditions.  We can argue about what the standard conditions should be, and whether CR should make modifications, but CR's testing provides meaningful results. 

Severus wrote:

Hi Severus,

Though I was most surprised that Consumer Reports had begun to allow the like, I was extrremely pleased that consumer reviews were being included.  Though not every user may sound like the world's smartest I think it helps promote balance when they get to say, "I like this but I don't like that.  This inclusion of opinion also removes CR from an almost sacrosanct and unapprochable position as regards the general public -- depending upon whom you talk to -- to merely being a consumer friendly organization that's been testing things a good while.

There are any number of vacuums that I have owned and would never buy again.  What's interesting it that, yes, there those who love the same thing I hate and swear they're just the best thing since white bread. 

Not just at CR but all over the place I have been browsing customer reviews and have always felt I come away with a better perspective of the product in mention AND people.  Yes, there are the whiners but I find them easy to overlook.  There are also the ravers who I find a little too ebullient to believe.  I do not claim to be able to tell who's a nitwit user or who's a manufacturer's shill but I feel I can effectively recognize legitimate comment, positive or negative, without much help.

Sears and some other brick-and-mortar/online selling venues also allow consumer reviews that are sometimes quite complementary and sometimes highly the opposite.  Looking at the business side of things I can't imagine why they allow it because there are often negative comments regarding items sold by x-venue.  Why have them at all and leave the public to assume that all is hunky-dory productwise?

Online shopping is more and more becoming a way of making household purchases but the same as trekking form store to store, listening, looking and comparing -- it's still a lot of work.  And who am I to believe? Nobody has a mouth that's a prayerbook or a butt that's a stack of bibles.  I'd much rather hear a vendor's sales spiel plus go through whatever user reviews I can find and also depend on a reliable source like CR for testing information.  I also use pricegrabber.com and nextag.com to locate items I want at the best price.  All those as a combined resource can be very helpful for making, if not always the best then better purchase choices.

Best,

Venson

Trebor wrote:

Hello Trebor:

Dealer exclusive as in ORECK dealers or any/all independent vacuum store dealers?

Carmine D.

SEVERUS, Venson et al:

I vote on 360 degree feedback [legitimate users, obvious shills, idiot users, and industry experts] rather than one way from CR.  But, with this comes more risks and responsibilities.  CR should be more explicit with its tests and results.  Dare I say it, consider industry experts' opinions too.

Carmine D.

A quick aside on the vacuum that goes first.  I'm amazed after all these years that youngins, so called pros, still push this poop to sell their favorite brand and model, whatever it may be.  As recent as last week I encountered this sales myth with what else?  You got it, a DC28.  I was told by the seller that in all store and customer tests done, whatever vacuums were used, including an array of dysons both new and old [even the new all white DC25], left behind rug dirt which only a DC28 with deep cleaning got up.  Due to what else: It's latest airmuscle technology.  I specifically asked him if he did the rug tests the other way around.  Oh, yes, yes.  We did it the other way too using a DC28 first.  The otehrs can't pick up anymore dirt.  Oh, I said.  Okay and nodded ny head in agreement.   

Well, I let the youngin go on.  Asked some questions about filters and cleaning maintenance.  Let him go thru the motions with the attachments.  I noticed the store's DC28 had dirt in.  So, I removed the bin while we talked, and I hit the tab to dump it.  I played the I didn't know card with the sales person.  Much as I expected he would, he went scrambling for a remote outlet and powered up the DC28.  I made sure he and I used the lowest setting on the DC28 at the last cleaning and went back and forth over the rug until we got it all.  Now, you know what I did next.  Yup.  I said to him.  You know before I plunk down $599 plus tax on this vacuum would you mind if I take this DC14 and run it over the same rug.  Just to see what happens.  His face dropped.  You know what happened next.  He powered up the DC14 and voila, he picked up more dirt on the rug after vacuuming thoroughly with a DC28.  I watched his reaction and believe I made a point that he will not soon forget.  He instantly knew he lost the sale.  Hopefully he learned a lesson, even if it was the hard way.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi,

This is what I'm talking about.  You walk into a store and get fairytales. As always, the best consumer is the imformed consumer. It never hurts to keep an open mind and thoroughly research products you think you may be interested in buying.

By the way did the DC28 handle well at its lowest height setting?

Venson

Venson wrote:

You get some fairy tales from inexperienced and untrained employees.  You get deceptive advice from biased posters on the web.  However, visit an indie and you will always learn that the brand he sells is the best without doubt.  The confusing part is they do not all sell the same brand.  How can all brands be the best?

I am sure you meant a correctly informed consumer. 

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Fine for me.  But, I can see the point made by some reviewers and Consumer Reports that some users would find the DC28 difficult to push and pull if you are doing alot of rug vacuuming.  Hence, the reason IMHO that dyson DC28 defaults when powered up to the medium setting.  In the medium setting, the DC28 did not get up all the dirt on the carpet but is easier to push and pull.  Only the low setting worked for the removal of dirt on the low carpeting.  A reason I dumped the dirt bin on the store carpeting and apologized rather than allowing the sales person to use a specially made throw rug in the store for comparative vacuum tests.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Hardsell, you make some good points.  "Best" for you, isn't necessarily "best" for me.   What vacuums would you sell if you were in the business?

HARDSELL wrote:

..
Hardsell

   I gotta say i agree with you.... consumer should research/do homework before they buy...knowingly deceptive dealers/posters hurt those that really care and try.

But at the same time the indie/employee poster can give an exp first hand point of view on the models/types that have stood the test of time and what is overpriced hype.

turtle 

Severus.

You did not ask me what brand I would sell, but I will respond anyway because my friend who manages a vac shop does quite well with the following, from lowest to highest.
D/D featherweight bagged, Hoover Tempo bagged. From there to the Sanitaire upright/Mighty Mite line which just overlaps the Miele uprights in price, and of course he has the Miele canisters.
THAT'S IT, yet he manages to close 75% or better of the people who stop to look. Not always on the first visit, mind you, but they come back to look again with remarkable consistency.and go home with a vacuum.
The store is about 600 square feet and has used vacss, a few carpet cleaners, and a few electric brooms and floor steamers.

I asked him once why he did not carry more of a selection. He said," People shop price or quality. They may say they shop both, but one inevitably wins out. The 40.00 and 90.00 price points I sell  are decent quality, I don't get many of them back, and I almost never get a Sanitaire or a Miele back.  More choices means more confusion for the customer, and a lower overall closing percentage. This is what works for me. I get a lot of those folks who left here, and looked elsewhere. They come back here because I make it simple.  Do you have 1) Carpets? 2)Pets?3) Allergies? If they are set on a bagless, I offer them a used one. Sanitaire is a good basic durable upright that cleans carpet well.  The lightest Sanitaire competes with Oreck and Miele crushes everyone in performance and filtration.  If they want a clean air upright with OBT, Miele starts at 549.00, I get them with a trade. I don't see any need to carry more skus and confuse my customers. "

Hard to argue with success.

Trebor

Severus wrote:

I was just making a point which BTW are not unique to just vacuums.  I do not have enough interest in vacuums to be in the business. 

I have sold some properties and a few other goods.  My son always says I am too honest to be in sales.  If there is a flaw in what I sell I always point it out regardless if it is not noticable. 

Trebor wrote:

Thanks Trebor for the insight.  How long has your friend been in the vacuum business and how would you characterize his personal and professional honesty?

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Why do you need to be dishonest in sales?

Lucky1 wrote:

There is a subtle but important difference between saying (1) you're "too honest" to be in sales, and (2) you have to be DISHONEST to be in sales. 

Severus wrote:

Sometimes it is not what you say but what you do not say to make a sale that to me is dishonest.

I am not saying that all sales persons are dishonest but so many are.  Speaking out of ignorance to make a sale is borderline dishonest.  Simply keep quiet or say I do not know.

Carmine and all,

My friend has managed this store for 10 years. It is the middle one of the three in terms of size, and is the best located.  It consistently outperforms the other two in terms of sales.  He is very honest. He wears his 'repairman' shirt with his name embroidered on it. People perceive him as the repairman and let their guard down and trust him.  He does not run sales, unless Miele or Sanitaire is sponsoring them, so there is no' take it now or no deal' sort of pressure. He listens a lot. and says often that if you listen the customer will tell you how to sell them and have them think it is their idea to buy.  The shop looks full, but not overcrowded. The fact that he carries two major lines reassures the customer that he has already done a lot of the work for them.  He never worries about who will come back, but a huge percentage do, and they hear him say the same things to customers. He is consistent.  "If you want deep cleaning AND extreme filtration that does not come cheap"  When someone says "I want deep cleaning, light weight, and on-board tools" he says 'pick two'   Some of his customers sheepishly walk in with a BAGLESS less than 6 mo old to trade in on a Miele or Sanitaire. It is amusing to watch.

Trebor wrote:

Thanks Trebor.  10 years.  One decade.  Wonderful.  At the rate he's going with the brands and models he sells, and his business professionalism, he'll easily have many more years. If you satisfy the customers, they will keep coming back and recommend you to others.   Best way to build and grow the vacuum business.

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

The seller knows his DC28 pitch is dishonest.  He claims that a DC28 deep cleans better than any vacuums including the entire array of dysons to date.  [read: Seller's way of saying that a DC28 is the "best" and worth the highest price on the shelves at $599.]  I base my conclusion that he knows he dishonest on 3 reasons:  First, when I asked if he performed the test with a DC28 as the first vacuum followed by another brand/model last, he said yes with certainty and no hesitation.  An honest sales person would have offered more details about the models/brands tested and even better offer to do the tests with a DC28 first.  Using the same zeal he demonstrated to show how well a DC28 would pick up the bin dirt I dumped on the rug.   Second, when I asked if I could go over the same area we just vacuumed with a DC28 with a DC14, his face dropped.  I saw all the energy leave his body.  The time between the two exchanges was probably about 15 or 20 minutes.  Finally, he knew at the moment the DC14 picked up more dirt he lost a sale.  He didn't and couldn't say anything more.  He could have saved himself by saying he never tried vacuuming with a DC14 last, if in fact he didn't and therefore wouldn't have known the outcome.  He didn't [save himself] because he knew the outcome of the test.  I uncovered his dishonest sales pitch.

Carmine D.

Severus wrote:

Hello SEVERUS:

Good point.  I'd like to make another distinction WRT marketing and product sales.  There is a line drawn by the courts and legal authorities between "sales puffing" and "dishonesty" when marketing and selling products.  "Never clogs, never loses suction" is a claim that an abitration authority [the ASA], vested with the purpose, ruled was not to be used in writing in product sales literature.  Is it dishonest?  I have to presume so and say yes it is.  If it were "sales puffing," it would be allowable.  While legal and quasi legal entities can regulate what is written by product makers, it can't dictate and police what is said for sales pitches.  As evidenced by the oldest dishonest sales pitch for vacuums in the industry.  Venson's point that an informed consumer is the best remedy for myths [and dishonesty] is right on the money. 

PS: I hope I'm not being "too honest" and offending some person's feelings and beliefs..

Carmine D.  

CarmineD wrote:
Is the Navigator puffing or dishonest?

HARDSELL wrote:

It is one of several vacuums I'm currently considering for purchase and use.  If and when I do [purchase], and have personal and professional experience with it, I will be in a better position to provide an honest and expert broker's answer to the the question you pose.  In the mean time vacuum buyers should follow Venson's advice.  Be an informed consumer, do your homework and research all products before buying.  Probably want to do more of the latter before spending $599 on a product [DC28] plus tax than $150 [Shark Navigator Pet].

Back to ORECK.  For all the reasons discussed above, I like the Dave Oreck money back guarantee with no questions asked after 30 days of free in home use.  Plus, buyers keep the giveaways for their time and trouble.  Can't beat that for being "too honest" in a sales puffing pitch with ORECK's honest claim: If not completely satisfied, return it before 30 days and get your money back.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

How does one research if no data is available?  $150 would be money wasted it the vac doesn't perform or fails in a short time.

BB allows 30 days on vacuums. Sears, WM, Lowes and HD allow 90 days.  Costco 1 year.  No questions asked. Even Ol Dave can't beat that when you consider that you overpaid for an electric broom if you keep the Oreck.  BTW, the freebies (worth more than the vac) are not included in the lesser priced Oreck deals.  Neither is the hand held.  By your own admittance (professional view) the Oreck is not a deep cleaning machine. 

HARDSELL wrote:

ORECK and Dave's product claim of complete satisfaction and free in home trial use for 30 days is the only such and best sales endorsement in the vacuum industry.  It is a staple of ORECK sales for over 45 years.  Obvious to me, since no other vacuum company makes the product promise, almost 'too honest' for vacuum sales.

ORECK doesn't clean and groom as well as any of my HOOVER WT uprights: The Gold standard of rug cleaning and grooming.  But it is a decent rug cleaning and grooming contender as well as an excellent barefloor cleaner.  Probably better on floors than any of my HOOVER uprights.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine

Orecks guarentee is rock solid....excellent customer service....on trade ins-returns -repairs and sales.

A w\t deep cleaer it isnt,,, but a commercial to low pile heavy duty cleaner it is....commercial tough...just wish it wasnt so loud. cant really use during work hours.

How do you rate the old xl pro clean air upright.....never had a chance to try one out.....so whats your take on it.

turtle

In any event, whether I love the product or not, there appears to be a lot of happy Oreck campers.  If not I doubt that he'd still be in business.

Venson

Id consider Oreck if they just put a long hose at the back with tools AND had a clean air system. I just dont like the idea of paying out a lot of money for an "upright only," design and then later replacing the plastic fans because of general day to day hard dust like stones.

Trebor wrote:

Hello Trebor,

I enjoy your comments.   I look forward to seeing this new Oreck that can clean like a Kirby - presumably at less than half the weight. 

Severus wrote:

Will be interesting...no doubt....look forward to also seeing the specs on this one and on the  new motors out for oreck.....changes/opt  on brushrolls/replmnt strips  poss? is something i always felt should have been availiable on the orecks....

turtle

vacmanuk wrote:

ORECK has the halo which comes with on-board attachments.  As well as several of its Commercial grade uprights.  WRT ORECK fans, I believe the latest ORECK uprights have lexan fans which is a material that may chip and scratch but reduces the likelihood of breakage from hard items.   I mentioned this before here and will repeat if you missed.  I know current industry people who worked for RICCAR/SIMPLICITY and moved over to ORECK.  They maintain that based on their personal and professional experience, they have found more fan breakage in the R-S uprights than in ORECK uprights. 

Carmine D.

retardturtle1 wrote:

Turtle:

This is the discontinued ORECK model with companion compact canister that COSTCO is selling starting tomorrow for $240.  Hard to beat for the price.  Check out the site/COSTCO store.  Has my interest for that price.  3 year warranty.  8 bags.  Perfect for gift giving and/or personal use.

Carmine D.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11500422&whse=BC&Ne=5000001%204000000&eCat=BC|103|4716&N=4000044%204294966284&Mo=0&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&topnav=

CarmineD wrote:

Oreck-Halo.  Halo-Oreck.  Who's your daddy?

Are you sincere about Oreck hiring someone who might bring them into this century?  Guess they have learned from Dyson.

HARDSELL wrote:

Quite honestly, could very well be a moot point for the industry in rather very short order.  If you know what I mean.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine

Im sorry,,,i meant the upro14 clean air ,,,looks like a elux 2mtr.

retardturtle1 wrote:

Hello turtle:  This is one of the Commercial uprights that I had in mind with my post to vacmanuk.  Meets the requirements he listed.  IMHO a good product.

Carmine D.

Advanced Features Purchase Inquiries Durable Dual-Motor complete cleaning system features a 14 inch cleaning path. Quiet operating vacuum – ideal for minimum noise areas. Full set of attachments includes upholstery brush, dusting brush, and crevice tool. Telescopic wand and stretch hose extend more than 9 feet for convenient above-the-floor cleaning. Roller brush motor automatically turns off protecting carpet when tools are in use. Balanced center of gravity prevents tipping when using accessories. Overload protection protects motor and belt.

HARDSELL wrote:

Honestly, this site is an excellent place to start.  Laziness with lack of interest are excuses for saying no data is available.  Informed consumers are the vacuum industry's best customers to sell. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

It is the SOS on this site daily.  Show me the info that would be useful in determining whether to buy a Navigator.

A well informed customer is dangerous to a self proclaimed pro.  A customer that is misinformed by a self proclaimed pro is like a fish out of water.

HARDSELL wrote:

http://www.abbysguide.com/vacuum/discussions/42930-0-1.html

A well informed vacuum buyer is the easiest customer to sell.  Match the right vacuum product to an informed vacuum buyer and it sells itself.  ORECK will always take back its new vacuums before 30 days and all the big box retailers have return policies.  Some better than others. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

You avoided my question as usual.  What a salesman.

HARDSELL wrote:

A common vacuum consumer problem, especially for the uninformed and lazy, is not knowing what to buy.  Buyers expect the "pros" to tell them what to buy and why.  [I wonder if they make other purchases that way?]  No doubt the reason, in part, Consumer Reports has 20 million faithful monthly readers. 

BTW, I never considered myself a salesman let alone a very good one.  I was told by many customers that I was "too honest" to be a salesman for any one brand/model.   I considered myself a vacuum industry business man and sales was just one part of the business.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine - as Ive said before, this is a Sebo commercial model based on the BS36. Weighs in at around 8.6kg. Hardly lightweight like the rest of the Oreck range.

vacmanuk wrote:

I know you did and knew you would again.  Very impressive vacuum.  The ORECK XL Pro 14T above weighs in at 19 pounds. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi carmine

Yup thats the one...looks solid. wish they woulda stayed with the oreck bag somehow...they filter great and nice size....hows it clean compared to the other  orecks.

turtle

CarmineD wrote:

You liberally spout negative comments about Dyson.  A real pro doesn't do this way.  When asked a simple question that you can't answer you always try to twist out of the hold.  Further evidence that you are lost when it comes to being a pro. I can see you are on the canvas.  Go to the corner and sit on the stool awhile.

I never expected or wanted you to tell me what to buy.  I simply asked you to refer me to the info that you said is so readilly available.  It ain't there and you fell on your rear.  More of the SOS as I said.

You once told us that you would give bad info to close a sale at week's end.  Now you say you were too honest.  I believe the first story.

HARDSELL wrote:

I didn't say I was too honest to sell one brand.... my customers did.  I sodl several brand/s and models concurrently.  Never ORECK except rebuilt/used.  I had the chance right from Dave Oreck.  But turned hiom down. 

Despite the huge mark ups on new dysons [once bragged about by a dyson fan who no longer posts here] I would never sell them unless a customer absolutely insisted.  It's never about the money from one time sales.  It's about building a lasting business realtionship with your customers.

Carmine D.

retardturtle1 wrote:

Comparable performance.  Has replaceable brush strips, slightly stiffer than home use ORECK's, which are ideal for commercial use.  2 year warranty.  $400-$500 retail.  Good vacuum for the money.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Enough of the ad nauseum about you.  Where is the info that consumers need to make a buying decision? 

HARDSELL wrote:

I'd prefer to talk about vacuums and your likes and dislikes in those regards. 

You are one consumer not plural.  What's good for you is not good for consumers and vice versa.   You are a perfect candidate for a new dyson and I have said so on several occasions asking what you liked in the new dyson line up.  You tend toward trendy and innovative designed products with high prices and middlin performance.  Dyson's strong points.  Definitely avoid the ORECK brand.  Too old and staunch for a fad status buyer like yourself.  Although I said I would carry and sell dysons to customers who absolutely insisted, you are exception.  I would, based on what I know from your posts here, refer you to a big box retailer.  When I had my store business I did that on some occasions.  Knowing what to sell and when to sell and who to sell, oftentimes has nothing to do with the products but the people.  Some people are just hard to sell.

I hope my honesty doesn't offend you.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Now we are getting somewhere Carmine.  Appreciate your reply.  Gotta get out the ol Bently and make it over to Allen Jacksons party. 

Have a good night.

HARDSELL wrote:

Can't get anywhere unless you answer.

Carmine D.

WRT the Oreck OBT issue, remember that Oreck stores repair all makes and models. The gather tons of info from the people who walk through the door, from those getting a vac repaired, to those shopping for a new vac, to those just buying bags, whether for on Oreck or other brand.  Hardly any of the OBT uprights that come in still have the tools on board. The customers normally have no clue what happened to them, except that  they fell off. The customers DO like the wand/hose to grab debris out of reach of the upright head, but did not care for the inconvenience of the slinky type hose and the way it collapses when any resistance is applied with a tool.. The majority of the people surveyed, Oreck owners and non, have a small canister for their upholstery, draperies, and so on.

Oreck discarded the 'longer hose-more tools' idea for their lightweight uprights because they offer uprights with a full complement of tools, and suction high enough to deep clean upholstery. To incorporate that concept into the open fan design of the traditional lightweight Oreck uprights is not easily done, and would be superfluous. If you want an Oreck pair, buy it, you want commercial grade OBT upright, buy it, and then there's always the Kirby, but then it does not have OBT (that we have seen, anyway)  No one cleaner has it all. Even Consumer reports says so.

Trebor wrote:

Hi Trebor:

Excellent points.  The problem with some, not all vacuum consumers, is that they don't know what they want and why.  They usually end up with a vacuum product that they don't like and don't want.  They blame the seller, the product, and a variety of others with excuses as long as their list of brands that they buy and return.  They don't own up to the fact that they didn't do their part [like answer a few basic questions] to ensure they get what they wanted and need.  Some people are just hard to sell.  I have found in my own store business that these are usually individuals who can't make their own purchase decisions and need/want some one else to do it for them.  They may be lazy.  May be indecisive.  May be perfectionists.  Any number of personality quirks.  They usually prefer big box retail stores with liberal return policies.  But may buy from an indy and/or d-t-d with mixed/conflicted buyer's remorse feelings.  Unfortunately, not all vacuum companies are like ORECK and allow free home use for 30 days.  Which BTW also gives ORECK an advantage over others by having a good sense for what their rate of returns are and even why.

Carmine D.

Trebor wrote:

Especially true when used in a commercial use/environment with multiple users.  Tools are the first to be scattered away and lost even with tool holders and caddies. 

Carmine D.

To repeat Carmine's quotes of me:

No one cleaner has it all. Even Consumer reports says so.

Most of the OBT up[right that come in no longer have the tools attached. The customers typically have no clue what happened to them except that they fell off at some point.

This is precisely why my friend in the vac shop responds with 'pick two' when someone wants a vacuum that deep cleans carpet, is lightweight, and has good on board tools. The closest yet is the Miele S7, the lowest priced model is 449.00 with a really good trade. If the slinky hose is troublesome, at 550.00  he can toss in an extension hose. Astonishing how many people come in 6 months later dragging a BBB( big box bagless) behind them with their eyes down and a sheepish look. Some of them trade up on the spot, some have the bagless unclogged, new filters and belt installed. The whole machine is cleaned and running like new, so they figure "What the heck, I'll use it for awhile yet" Anywhere from three months  to a year later, here they come, back again. They usually make it a little bit longer since they now know (and believe) that there are FILTERS in the vacuum that need to be kept clean, and the brushroll needs attention. At this point most of the returnees refuse to spend another 59.00 or so, and buy, or go to Walmart again.  I asked him about those who leave, usually leaving their vacuum behind.

His reply?
"Some customers cannot be satisfied, they don't WANT to be satisfied. Their joy in life is to complain, Let them complain-to someone else.  If they buy the Miele, or the Sanitaire all they will ever see is the price, every time they use it. Maybe after 10 years of trouble- free use they MIGHT begin to see the wisdom of the purchase. I cannot afford to let them learn on my dime and tell everyone how expensive a vacuum I rammed down their throat. I have had a few come back after years of burning up BB vacuums and say "OK. I should have done this years ago. I'd be money ahead. It was less expensive then, and I would not have gone through all these vacuums." They buy with minimal quibbling about the price, and walk out still unhappy about the money they could have saved, but at least they are not unhappy with me."

While he is knowledgeable about vacuums, he is also very astute when it comes to reading people, and that is the secret to his success.

CarmineD wrote:

An astute consumer is a HARD SELL.  It is especially difficult for a pro that is FOS to sell to them.

Why would a pro refuse to sell one of the most popular brands with a supposedly low maintenance cost?  Instead he chose to sell brands that were higher maintenance costs and shorter life.  I hesitate to buy from a pro that is more concerned with high profit than selling better products.

I find it just as amusing that a pro had to have his wife recommend a better vac than his selection.

HARDSELL wrote:

Disagree.  An astute consumer is an easy sell.  They know what they want and need.  Tell the seller.  And the products that meet the needs are given as choices.  Decision made.  Simple.

It's called age and ailments and daily vacuuming due to a dogs that sheds yearly.  8 pounds is a lot easier to use than 20.  Facts and circumsyances change, so do the products needed to keep up with the needs.  See easy and simple when you know what you need and want.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Agree....an astute consumer is a great weapon against a dirty scammer....the bottom feeders of the industry. 

For those of us that really care and try....who want to make a difference in your life and home ...an astute consumer is our/your best friend/customer...
he or she will be in the know...and know your the one to deal /buy from.

turtle

Trebor wrote:

Hi Trebor:

With some, I fully understand his reasoning.  Knowing what to sell, when to sell, and who to sell is oftentimes not about the products alone, it's about the people.  And some, not all, have personality quirks that make them hard to sell.  I met them all in 40 plus years of store business. 

Carmine D.

Trebor wrote:
Any updates on these updates to the Oreck line ups?    I haven't seen anything about the new Edge on the oreck web site. 

I bought the Edge and canister today, I'll make a video later. Here's the brochure. It was 750.00. One can purchase the upright alone for 550.00.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ldmz4kmj4ay

Also, these are not my videos, but a few I've seen on youtube:


Oreck Edge 1


Oreck Edge 2

Out of curiosity, I checked out the Oreck website.  It's still pushing the XL Platinum with the swivel gizmo and a said to be redesigned brushroll.  No signs of the Edge.  Any reason why?

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

A likely reason is that the newest Edge is not in all the ORECK stores yet nationwide.

Carmine D.

travstyles wrote:
I hope the Oreck Edge is released and advertised in time for Consumer Reports to test it.   I look forward to watching the videos on youtube.  Thanks to the poster.
Will be interesting to see if it cleans as well as a Kirby.  If so it surely will be a winner.   The addition of a long life belt sounds like a smart move. 

Well the first link shows a very surpremely quiet Oreck! Ive never quite heard one that quiet: Im very impressed.

However the next one from the "android phone," gives a lot of noise. Which one is to be believed??

Severus wrote:

Hello SEVERUS:

I agree in theory with what you say.  In reality, I don't believe ORECK places much credence on Consumer Reports reviews and ratings.  In the latest CR tests, ORECK scored "good" for carpet cleaning with its latest products, which BTW were late to CR for their reviews.  The same may be true with the Edge and the October CR inclusion.  ORECK's overall score in March 2010 was 60 with the best rating of 73 and Kirby's rating of 67.   But, ORECK beat out Kirby Sentria for pet hair cleaning.  I believe you use 67 as the cutoff for a winner in the upright category, I may be wrong. 

More important IMHO to ORECK's profile, and I don't speak for it, is that it offers a range of decent performing vacuum products, primarily its lightweight upright, for all family budgets and cleaning needs, especially now.  As long as it stays in the mainstream of ratings with a 60 and/or above and a good score or better for carpet cleaning and pet hair, it's a winner for consumers.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine,

So do you think this more powerful Oreck Edge (who knows how big the motor is?) is a response to the 12-amp Hoover Platinum lightweight? 

although I don't mind pushing a round a heavy vacuum, I think there are a lot of consumers willing to pay a premium for an effective lightweight vacuum. 

Regarding the overall scores, I think CR splits vacuums into 5 groups - poor (<20), fair (20-<40), good (40-<60), very good (60-<80), and excellent (80+).    If you're a person who wants to keep things simple, you probably wouldn't miss too many good vacuums by eliminating any vacuum scoring below 60 points - if the CR tests seem relevant to your situation.  

Severus wrote:

Hi SEVERUS:

Could be.  The Pilot is ORECK's response to dyson's ball.  The Edge could be ORECK's response to the HOOVER Lightweight bagged, if it has a more powerful motor.  I trust the ORECK Edge motor is new and comes with more power than the existing ORECK uprights.  But I don't know that yet for a fact.  I like the new sharper sleeker look of the ORECK Edge upright over all existing lightweight uprights on the market currently.  $500 for a lightweight upright that performs as well as a full size upright along with a 10 year ORECK warranty/more is reasonable.  Especially if ORECK offers it's yearly tune ups free.  People do the math and say $50 per year is a buy for a quality vacuum product.  I believe ORECK is offering the Edge primarily for existing loyal ORECK customers who want to upgrade [read trade in and up which further reduces the price below $500/$550].  Hence, I say if the ORECK Edge does as well/even better than its existing icon uprights, it's a winner.  New ORECK buyers are a plus.  Icing on the cake. 

WRT HOOVER lightweight and ORECK Edge, I note that ORECK copied the wheel design and placement of its Edge staright from the HOOVER lightweight.  Smart move.  This should assist ORECK Edge to compete equally on higher carpets with HOOVER's lightweight bagged. 

Made in the USA, despite all the arguments against it, beats made in Mexico/China with American buyers too, especailly nowadays when the price is $500/$550. 

Carmine D.

Severus wrote:

Agree.  An ORECK vacuum buyer knows the product already [prior user, word of mouth from friends and family] and is already sold on it.  They may look to CR just as a backup to reacquaint/reinforce their purchase.  If ORECK Edge/other scores good-excellent on carpets and pets with a 60 or more in a field with 73 as best, it's a winner for ORECK buyers/users.

Carmine D.

Spending $550 on a vacuum that brings ZERO life-changing/industry-changing innovations, but instead brings a mirror-copy of his competitors vacuums (same use of tired-technologies) is hilarious.  And spending $200 on a easy-to-choke ‘tired’ portable is funny too!  I can’t wait to see how Dishonest Dave uses hype and gimmicks to sell this decades old contraption (chokes-like/works-like their competitors less expensive vacuums).

DysonInventsBig wrote:

My sentiments exactly...........for dumb dyson and Sir James.  Who in their right mind and pocket book would spend $550 on a weighty, ball wheeled, Malaysian contractor made, mediocre performing, over hyped/over hawked vacuum?  Or spend $300 on a 10 inch fan?  Or spend $1,400 on an electric hand dryer.  Or spend $200 on a ball barrow?  Or spend $5,000 on a contra rotating washer?  Or $12 on a small package of dysolv rug cleaner that doesn't remove stains?  History speaks for itself.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  Or as Abraham Lincoln said:  You can fool some of the people all of the time; all of the people some of the time; but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.  There are alot of things one can say about his favorite hero's innovative product plunders.  But, the honest thing to say is that they were incredibly bad ideas and he/company got it wrong [over and over again]. 

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Dustmite,

You're making a lot of assumptions about a product you know nothing about - nothing new.   David Oreck is a much more honest person than you are.  He certainly puts the best spin on his products that he can, but he is very careful not to lie.  Certainly Dave prices his vacuums to include the cost of the annual service.  James Dyson could learn a lot from David Oreck about running a business. 

Severus wrote:

Ole Dave could learn a lot from several brands about cleaning beyond a hard surface.  Like deep cleaning carpet.performance.