Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

On housekeeping, maintenance and carpet care sites are dire warnings NOT to use a rotating brush vacuum because it will 'untwist' and 'fuzzy' the tips.

On the Shaw site, it uses the word "shag" in quotation marks, implying cable,shag, and frieze fall under the same maintenance requirements.

So, what would your top picks be, both vacuums and attachments, for vacuuming frieze,cable, and shag carpet? Some include berber in this suction only maintenance category, along with handmade rugs. So, what do you say should be used, considering some carpets have a 10yr. appearance retention warranty provided the care instructions are followed.  

If HOOVER were a person we could say, the decisions we make affect the lives that we lead.  By kow towing to the bb stores, HOOVER , and others like it, set out on that slippery slope that leads us where it is today.  For better or worse, it is what it is.  Sadly others followed the same route and made the same mistakes rather than benefitting from HOOVER's past.  Some have not followed and kept true to their USA commitment.  Does the brand ORECK come to mind?

Carmine D.

Trebor wrote:

No. Boss would say I told you so.  Like looking at his creation, and deciding to start over.  Only Boss doesn't have Noah with an arc.

Carmine D. 

This is an interesting read. I wish everyone would take the time to research the proper maintenance for their flooring.

I am the claims manager for one of the largest flooring retailers in the country.(i prefer to stay anonymous) I come across a lot of forums while doing research for flooring complaints. i typically cruise through and don't post anything, however this particular subject is one i feel obligated to chime in on.

The Carpet and Rug Institute is an independent agency that compiles information and tests products. They get their information from industry professionals like myself, installers, manufacturers, and independent inspectors to compile guidelines together for consumer education, for example installation guidelines. Please remember that the information they provide are guidelines and not the gospel. Manufacturers provide samples to CRI for testing so they gan get the CRI label on their products. They use an independent lab to test the vacuums and rate them on soil removal, dust containment, and fiber protection. The fiber protection part for residential use means the vacuum will not affect they appearance very much for one year of normal vacuuming. they do not test them on every manufactured line of carpet. It is a general and broad test. one of the inherent problems with this is how and who determines what one year of normal vacuuming is?

For the most part, all the manufacturers warranties read the same as far as maintenance goes. Regular vacuuming and periodic professional cleaning is needed to maintian the carpet and keep the warranty intact. Typically they recommend everything be vacuumed weekly and high traffic lanes daily. As far as cleaning goes, proof of professional hot water extraction is required at a minumum of every 18-24 months depending on the manufacturer. Also, to file a performance claim, a receipt for cleaning within 30 days of filing the claim is required. I can't tell you the number of times i have had customer complaints from people who have never had their carpet cleaned or they had it cleaned 12 months ago. The one that most frustrating is the customer that has 4 people and 2 dogs in the house and after a year they haven't had their carpet cleaned and they complain. Then when you tell them to have their carpet cleaned they refuse because it's only been down for a year and they shouldn't have to have it cleaned already.

These are my maintenance recommendations:

vacuuming- vacuum all areas once a week. vacuum areas of nominal or high use the number of times a week equal to the number of people and pets in the household or daily. for example, two parents , a child, and a dog, vacuum everything once a week and traffic areas 4 times a week.

deep clensing- do not use shampooers or rental equipment. a shampooer with agitating brushes will destroy your carpet and rental equipment does not have enough suction to remove enough moisture and detergents. Have your carpets professionally hot water extracted by an IICRC certified cleaner every 6-18 months depending usage. in the vacuuming example above, i would recommend every 6 months. Some of the manufacturers do allow do it yourself equipment to be used under strict guidelines. You must be able to provide a receipt for the purchase of a specific model of a Bissle cleaning machine along with cleaning solution for the machine a minumum of every 12 months. I personally only like these machines for spot removal to rinse any cleaners out of the pile. if you are going to go this route do not use more cleaning agent than recommended by Bissel. Detergents are designed to attract dirt and any residue left behind will soil your carpet that much faster. This is typically where the complaint comes in from a carpet that was cleaned 6 months ago because in 6 months the carpet became dirtier than it did in the previous 18 months.

As far as the vacuums go, A CRI approved machine is a good way to go. As far as i know, shaw is the only one of the major manufacturers that has listed suction only for "shag" carpets however i do agree with them and i have seen a couple high end niche mills void warranties with the use of a dyson and maybe possibly an oreck(i am not 100% on this and this is how i came across this forum).These types of products have a very loose construction which allows the beater bar or rotating brushes to beat the heck out of the tufts unlike a dense plush that the tufts are packed in nice and tightly together. The most critcal thing about a vacuum on any carpet is being able to properly adjust the height of the brushes/beater bar. Suction only is the best way to go for frieze and shag carpet. for standard plush and loop style car the brush or bar should be set to a height where it barely touches the pile so it vibrates the pile no more than 6 inches away from the vacuum head. A carpet rake is a great tool to bring the pile up on frieze and shag styles before a suction only vacuum is used.

Lastly, matting and crushing are not covered by any warranty except on the extremely rare circumstance of a specific product. The texture retention warrantys refer to the fibers ability to maintain its shape and twist. matting and crushing is a result of the pile laying down from use and usually soil buitl up in the pile that has the fibers sticking together.

i hope this information is helpful.

Hi FloorGuru,

Thanks so much for the info but a lot of this we already know.  As a consumer I'd be glad to learn your suggestions or recommendations as to the best fit carpetwise for various household scenarios.

A single person or a couple without kids usually will find find that the sky's the limit in reard to choice as carpeting in such households generally suffers far less.  On the other hand, in a busy household with kids, pets, etc., there's a lot to deal with and maintenance routines may not always be the best despite even the best of intentions. Mom and pop both may be working and there's no room in the budget for outside help. What types of carpeting and carpet colors serve best there?

Thanks,

Venson

FloorGuru,

"a shampooer with agitating brushes will destroy your carpet"

Would you care to elaborate on your statement???  The recipe for carpet cleaning is: TACT  Time Agitation Chemical Temperature.  In the case of "restoration", (heavily soiled carpeting) some form of agitation is required, be it rotating brushes, or rotary extraction such as the rotovac or hydramster rx-20 to name a couple.  Could a power nozzle also be considered to have an agitating brush??  Any brush can be detrimental to a carpet depending on how stiff the brush is and how long you let it sit in one spot.  However, add a little bit of lubricant (water), the negatives can be greatly reduced. 

I have a training, reference and certification manual for cleaning professionals (carpet and rug care), agitation is discussed, and not frowned upon as you state. 

Your clarification on this would be greatly appreciated!

Vernon

I have a proposed solution for vacuuming "unvacuumable" carpet. If a Sebo powerhead were used with a gentle brushroll, and a 240 volt motor, that would slow the revolutions down by at least half. That should allow some slow, gentle agitation without pulling or tearing at the tufts. Thoughts?

Vernon,

I commend you on the research you have done and the knowledge you have acquired. You have taken this to a whole new level by bringing up that kind of equipment. To clarify, i was referring to home units and units that are rented from a grocery store. The technology has improved most of the home use products beyond the days of the old shampooers so you don't see them much anymore. I vividly remember as a kid using an electrolux model that my parents had bought. Knowing what i know now i never would have let them buy it. The type of products that i am referring to are the ones that you literally lathered the carpet with a shampoo and the machine had brushes that rotated parallel to the pile that just beat the heck out of it.

since you brought them up i will comment on them. please keep in mind, some of this is my opinion and no way a reflection of the quality of the equipment.

The rx-20 coupled along with their boxxer 427 system has received the gold seal from the carpet and rug institute. if you notice, the rx20 does not use brushes and it is a hot water extraction head, not a shampooer. Same goes for the rotovac except  you can change the heads to have brushes. this machine is more typically used in the commercial setting. IMHO, it would destroy any type of frieze or shag with the brushes on it. It may not due it in with one or two cleanings but over time you are reducing the life of the carpet.

The acronym that i know in the cleaning industry is CHAT. Chemical,Heat,Agitation,dwell Time. yes agitation is definitely a part of it, however some machines are better than others at accomplishing this. A lot of cleaners still use a carpet rake to agitate the pile before extraction.

My biggest concern is someone using a home remedy and destroying their carpet not the equipment a trained professional is using. At least if the cleaning technique used by a professional damages the carpet, you have the ability to make somebody accountable.

Two issues at play here.  First, presumably rug/carpet makers produce and sell products that are practical and American consumers want, need and like to buy.  Second, the consumers know and/or should learn the pitfalls of their likes and wants in these rug/carpet products.  Assuming both, then add the following:  Caveat emptor, buyer beware.  If you buy an industry product, regardless of what it is, which is different than the mainstream for products in that industry, then there is a risk involved.  Expect to have added consequences either money, time, effort and/or all the above.  Including difficulty to maintain and use unless you're willing to jump through hoops by the maker. 

Carmine D. 

IMO, the industry as a whole has not educated the consumers very well.

here are a few things everyone looking to buy carpet should know.

there are 3 synthetic fibers used to make carpet. Nylon, Olefin(polyporylene), and Polyester.

Nylon- Extremely durable, nearly impossible to abrasively wear the fiber, extremely resilient, technological advances in stain treatments have greatly improved nylon's stain resistance.

Olefin- Most commonly used in berbers and inexpensive commercial loops. Also used in high end woven patterned pieces from europe under the name of Eurolon. Good resistance to abrasive wear, weak in the resiliency category- it will matt and crush down, extremely naturally stain resistent, virtually impossible to stain the fiber or bleach the color out(it can be done but is difficult to do), low melting point, has an affinity for oil. This fiber is good in loop construction(berbers) for light to medium traffic areas and for areas such as basements where spills are going to hapen from the kids or partygoers.

Polyester- this is the green fiber. a good amount of this fiber is recycled plastics mainly from plastic beverage containers. very naturally stain resistant. resiliency is in between nylon and olefin, good maintenace will dramatically slow the matting and crushing however it is going to happen. the majority of products made from this fiber are of staple yarn construction. it will shed alot for the first 6-12 months and all staple products will shed lightly for the life of the product. The benefit from this fiber is it's natural stain resistance and it costs a lot less than nylon so you can get that thick soft plush on a much smaller budget.

If i had my way the only synthetic fiber that would be used to make carpet would be nylon. olefin and polyester are going to matt, crush and ugly out. if you have a family of 3, you can expect to see this within months and by the time you see it, it's too late to reverse.

The tighter the twist, the denser the pile, the better the carpet. the taller the pile the more it can move.

warranties-

wear warranty- the fiber will not abrasively wear out more than 10 % for the period of the warranty. i have never seena carpet made from a synthetic fiber abrasively wear unless it was severly abused. I have also never had a claim approved for true abrasive wear.

texture/appearance retention warranty- this warranty states the fiber will not lose it's texture as a result of the tufts losing their twist under normal foot traffic. This does not cover matting and crushing. matting and crushing is considered normal appearance change from use and is not caused by the tufts untwisting. The main cause for matting and crushing is soil in the pile. proper maintenance and the right fiber allow this condition to be prevented or corrected. The fibers are heat set to hold their shape and it is a rare circumstance that the process at the mill failed. one of the main reasons the mills recommend or require hot water extraction is the heat helps the pile bloom back up to it's original shape, especially nylons.

stain warranties-surprisingly, these are the best warranties on carpet. they do honor them. you have to jump through some hoops but if you have a legitimate claim, it will be taken care of.

for any performance claim, you have to provide your maintenance receipts. Depending on the fiber/carpet manufacturer, you have to have proof of maintenance at a MINIMUM of every 18-24 months and the last service has to be within 30 days of filing the claim. the consumer is the one using the product and is responsible for maintaining it.

lastly, remember that some of the warranties are prorated and some of them,not all, but some do not cover the replacement labor, they only cover the material.

Thank you much FloorGuru, that's the stuff people need to know.

Best,

Venson