Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I started the thread about lead cleanup and the Eureka sealed-HEPA system...

I'm now looking at spending the extra dollars to purchase the Simplicity Synergy.  The price tag alone makes me worry that the Eureka sealed HEPA isn't as impressive as the marketing makes it sound.

Again, I know a vacuum cleaner alone isn't a solution to a lead-paint chipping problem but I am venturing to guess that the right vacuum cleaner (with a sealed HEPA system) will improve the situation while the wrong vacuum cleaner (an inexpensive Bissell or Eureka) may actually make the situation worse. 

I cringe to think that every time I'm vacuuming I'm just blowing more lead dust up into the air and making the environment more hazardous than it was to begin with.

The Simplicity salesman I spoke with told me that the Synergy air filtration was "hospital grade."  I also remember reading on here that "hospital grade" is not necessarily a good thing.  Can anyone elaborate on this?

Is $700 a reasonable price for a Synergy (this is marked down $200 with a trade-in). 

I've seen the Minuteman Lead HEPA for $625 here.  Any opinions on if the filtration of the Synergy would be equal to or better than this Minuteman Lead HEPA?

I also forgot to ask the Simplicity salesman about canister vacuums- would these be less expensive?

He did confirm that a bagless vacuum is not the way to go- I will not be purchasing one of these.

Thanks again,

Tech

Hi Tech,

Reading about your situation I would imagine a dedicated lead vacuum would be overkill and an unnecessary waste of money.  Yes, there are contaminants in lead paint, and care should be taken when cleaning them up (as with any material, one does not normally ingest or try to breathe in non-lead paint!) however it is not as dangerous as we would be led to believe.  As with asbestos, the potential for contamination is frequently overstated (in fact it would occur to me that disturbing either material by trying to remove them would cause more harm than good, vs. simply leaving it alone), and as long as you are not careless with cleaning it up you should have no problems.  Vacuuming up peeling paint chips (not fine, airborne dust) into a sealed vacuum bag would fit under this category.  I don't think I would use a bagless vacuum to clean up lead paint, as it seems more of it would be disturbed from moving around in the bin. 

That aside, you would benefit from a sealed HEPA cleaner regardless, especially in an older home that is not well-insulated from dust, etc.  Do you have carpets, or mostly bare floors?  If you have carpets, then I would go in the direction of the Synergy.  Although I thought you mentioned you "don't have $600+ to invest in a vacuum cleaner rated for lead cleanup"?  You can find a good sealed HEPA cleaner at an independent store for a lot less than what the Synergy costs.  Keep in mind that is Simplicity's flagship upright and (undoubtedly) the model the dealer will try to point you to first.  

For bare floors, however, I would go in the direction of a small Miele canister, either the Naturell or the S4 Galaxy series.  Both are 100% sealed HEPA cleaners and do not cost a fortune.  The Naturell is a basic, no-frills model for around $250, and would be perfect for your situation.  Due to the low price it is not listed on the Internet but walk into any Miele dealer and you will likely find one.  The S4 Galaxy series offer upgrades such as a speed control, and additional accessories, but are virtually the same underneath.  Do you have any independent Miele dealers in your area?  Definitely check them out and see if one of these models fits your needs. 

Hope this helps, and good luck with your choice,
-MH

Thanks for the recommendations Motorhead.  I've figured if I'm innovative enough I can find a way to come up with $600+ for a vacuum but it will be cutting things close.  I'm thinking the efforts will be worth it in order to give me the peace of mind that my vacuum is not making my indoor environment worse each time I vacuum. 

As for your question about the floors, most are bare- I will definitely check into the Mieles that you recommended.  I just checked and there is a dealer not too far from me that I planned on visiting (they sell the Simplicity vacuums as well).  The sub-$300 range would be much more comfortable than $700!

I'd like to learn more about the HEPA class standards.  Carmine pointed out that the Synergy "has a 100% sealed S class HEPA system."  Are there any decent references or discussions recommended (I'll do some Googling following this post). 

Regards,

Tech

Three Step S-Class Filtration System 99.9% Effective at Removing All Particles to 0.3 Microns

First, debris is picked-up by the power brush agitation and vacuum suction and then moved up and into the three layer filter bag for the main debris collection. Then, suctioned air moves through the entire dust bag and into a fiberglass-free hospital grade micro-filter capturing the remaining smaller particles. Finally, a fiberglass-free micro-exhaust filter cleans the exhaust air that the vacuum emits.

Hello Tech:  Sorry for not explaining.  MIELE vacuums meet the same requirements for sealed S-Class HEPA.  Also, excellent choice.

Carmine D.

G'day Tech,

If you're trying to cut costs and are mainly bare floor you may want to look at the Simplicity Jessie.  It uses a hepa bag and filter in a sealed system but is designed for hard surfaces and small amounts of carpet.  If a powerhead is a must a good deal can usually be had on the Simplicity S20, while not a completely sealed system it still uses a hepa bag (same as the Jessie) and if you swap out the standard Riccar hepa for a Eureka True Hepa (they are interchangeable) you'll have a well filtered vacuum.  Sealed systems are best but as always it's what you can do for the dollar that usually matters most.

Dusty

My opinion, for what its worth.

No big box store machine is a true HEPA vacuum, you will only find these in the specialty stores, and on brands such as Simplicity and Miele.  The Simplicity Synergy has 2 levels of filtration, standard and plus.  For lead I wouuld suggest upgrading the model you are looking at to Plus if you choose that model.  The Hepa Plus filter with the sealed system gives the vacuum a rating of 100% (tested with the particle scanner thing) of all particles down to .3 microns.

But like some others here have said, you need to see if the Synergy is the right one for you.  It would be a great vacuum for a house with all carpet or mixed carpet, rugs, floors.  For all bare floors with a few areas of carpet you may want to consider something else, like a suction only HEPA canister, or a canister with a mini power head if you have larger area rugs, or 1-2 small rooms of carpet.  The best way to go is to go to the vacuum store and be specific, tell them you need HEPA and describe the house you will be cleaning, such as floor surfaces and other things like if you have pets, and let a experianced sales person help you decide what features you want/need.  And you can try them out while you are there.

Once again, thanks for the responses.  I wanted to have a bit of knowledge about my situation and the vacuums available before walking into a vacuum cleaner store and I feel that I now have that. 

Carmine,

Thanks are there other classes with similar specs as well (better and worse than S-class)?

Tech

David:

For vacuum cleaners, being tested and rated as certified S-Class sealed HEPA is the best.  The certification refers to the HEPA filter and the vacuum cleaner working as a sealed system.

FYI:

http://articles.webraydian.com/article10123-How_to_Select_a_HEPA_Vacuum_Cleaner.html

Carmine D.

The Miele Naturell is not Miele Hepa Filter capable that I know. Assembled in China

The better choice for YOUR situation would be the Miele Antares with an Optional Hepa Filter. It comes with an EXCELLENT bare floor brush and an air power turbohead for small amounts of carpeting. $489 + 52.99 for hepa. Made in Germany

The Bosch Formula Duo Plus would be another choice I would have you try. You should get an optional high quality floor brush thrown in. At about $499-$550. Made in Germany

The Simplicity Verve will give you all that you want plus be adaptable for anything you might add in the future (larger home, more carpet etc) $500-$650. Made in Simplicity's plant in China.

I think that $700 is a good price for a Synergy but not the best choice for you. made in USA.

There is also a "dealer only" Sanitaire canister somewhere, that I believe is a sealed hepa system and is being closed out. I'm sketchy on "truthiness" and detail on this. You might have to do more research

Lucky1 wrote:

While the Synergy may not be the best in Tech's current situation/living arrangement [which is a year lease], it may be the best buy in the long run..............Only Tech knows for sure based on what he will consider for his next house/home.

Carmine D.

After a few hours at a vacuum store we decided on the Simplicity Verve.  It didn't take long for the salesperson to sell my wife and I on a canister instead of an upright:

 * Easier to use on stairs
 * Longer hose for use with extensions (horizontal blinds)
 * Easier to vacuum both carpeted and non-carpeted floor
 * Easier to vacuum under beds and furniture
 * Feels more comfortable to steer, push, maneuver
 * More suction
 * Cord retraction
 * The canister is designed to roll over cord and maneuvers much easier than those old canisters from decades ago

We looked at the Miele line too.  The salesperson said that the Miele vacuums have superior filtering capabilities and are the only vacuums recognized / certified by some association/foundation- American lung association or something; not sure?

The least expensive Miele canisters were not designed for use with carpeting and by the time we were up to a Miele which was, we were a few hundred dollars over the price of the Verve.  We were still considering the Miele because of a few favorable factors:

 * Quieter
 * HEPA filter seems more impressive- more rubber (not to say that it is)
 * HEPA filter contains carbon to remove odors
 * The superior filtration, as mentioned above

There were a few drawbacks which steered us back to the Simplicity however:

 * Hose did not rotate at the base of the canister; this is supposedly to increase suction.  I agree- it sucks.
 * Handling the wand/power head was difficult, partly because of the previous point, partly because the hose itself did not rotate at the handle as it does on the Verve.  To me the hose seemed bulkier. 
 * Powerhead did not seem as impressive
 * Powerhead wand did not remain in a vertical position without being attached to the side of the canister.  The newer / more expensive powerheads do not have this problem.

The salesperson was also able to offer a larger discount on the Simplicity and threw in a few extra filters and bags.  So, the Verve it is. 

Hopefully this will make our home a bit healthier, considering the lead paint chips we find (it's not like we're finding them all over the place, all the time, I've just become obsessive compulsive about this).  We've also noticed quite a bit of dust in the air here so I'm hoping that we will see a reduction as time goes on.  I'm sure this will beat the Bissell bagless that we almost went with.

The store we purchased from also sold Dysons, which I had mentioned since I've seen so much advertising for them.  The salesperson did not feel that the vacuums offered high quality filtration at all but does sell them to people who come in looking specifically for them.  The store actually seems to carry about every brand of vacuum I've ever heard of...  Is this normal?

Thanks once again for helping me get started here.  I'm off to vacuum everything I can find. 

Tech