Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

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CarmineD wrote:

Neither you nor mole predicted the Dyson sales to drop in the UK.  Once again you lie.  You said for three years that each new Dyson would put Dyson out of business and I said you were wrong.  I was correct.

You saind numerous times that BB was discontinueing Dyson and again I disagreed.  I was right again.  Your predictions are not so accurate.

CarmineD wrote:

First post here and I am curious.  I keep reading a couple posters saying that Dyson can no longer use this claim and yet :

 "no loss of suction"

and  statements like

"Dyson proves no loss of suction using the IEC 60312 Cl 2.9 test standard on uprights and canister
vacuums and using a test method based on the IEC 60312 Cl 2.9 standard for the handheld.

Dyson proves no loss of suction, best average pick up, and 'overall outcleans other vacuums' using results from
IEC 60312 Cl 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.8, 2.9, ASTM F608 and F558, and DTM 755— an independently conducted Dyson test."

Are plastered all over thier webpage.  Are some here not understanding a ruling correctly, just blowing smoke to make an argument, or is Dyson in violation of a court order?

Hello JackD and welcome aboard:

Here's a synopsis based on my understanding.  I speak for myself and not a representative of any of the companies and customers directly involved in the matter. 

It's not a court ruling, but an NAD ruling.  NAD is a USA industry arbitrator who facilitates cases brought by customers and companies against businesses who make false, misleading, and deceptive advertising claims [read: untrue].

NAD and dyson.  The original dyson claim, also once used by retailers advertising dysons, WAS:  No clogging, therefore no loss of suction.  Dissatisfied dyson customers [read: with clogged dysons that lost suction] along with ORECK and HOOVER brought the dyson claim before the NAD.  Based on the evidence, NAD ruled that dyson could no longer say its vacuums didn't clog [read filters].  Dyson revised its claim to: Never losses suction.  Retailers stopped using the claim in print.

ORECK [possibly encouraged by other vacuum makers sitting on the sidelines monitoring the developments] decided to proceed against dyson with a legal action.  ORECK's right.  That's where it stands.  In court awaiting a hearing, trial and ruling. 

Hope that assists you in getting brought up to date.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

What makes you think the USA is different than the UK?  I quote you this because it was an overused statement on many vacuum forums to convince consumers that the USA would fall for dyson the same way as the UK.  Contrarily, the reverse is true.  We can expect here what's already happend in the UK. 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

Over the last few weeks, several posters here provided you with incontrovertible proof that all the major retailers are culling dyson vacuums from their shelves with discounted prices advertised much lower than dyson MAP.  MOLE and I predicted this would come to pass with the big box store venues and dysons.  It has.   One dyson supporter, Dusty, recently posted that he agrees with us as it concerns dyson and big box stores.   

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

Let's recap 6 years of dyson facts and circumstances in the USA and our predictions.  

The DC07 and DC14, supposedly the dyson signature models [you owned the DC07 but sold it], are being discontinued and sold on clearance by all the major retailers.  The DC07 as low as $289 this week.  Brand new.  From an MSRP of $439.  MOLE and I predicted this would happen.  

The DC11 canister for $499 was pulled off the USA markets after 9 months.  I was one of 2 of the biggest critics of its puny power nozzle as early as April 2004.  Right again.

The DC15 original Ball was launched for $699 in March 2005.  By September, dyson dropped the price to $599 starting with BEST BUY stores, as I predicted .  Currently, it is $499 and less. 

The DC16 cordless hand held has a 5 minute run time.  Disgraceful for a $150 vacuum product.  I was a huge critic of the product when HSN demoed it and one went dead on air in less than 2 minutes.  It is currently being discounted by dyson for $49 with any new dyson purchase.  Right once more.

One major USA rug maker voided its warranty if any of the dyson vacuums are used on its carpets. 

Consumer Reports consistently rates all the dysons, save the DC17, as fair to middlin at best in a field of many less expensive makes and models.  Even the DC17, with an original MSRP of $549, is discounted now for $499 [before other buyer incentives]. 

The DC16 Slim for $469 [supposedly dyson's best selling sku] is currently being sold for $369 and is being scrubbed by most big box retailers after just 2 years on the market. 

The DC24/25 are too new to have a past.  But the filtering is seriously degraded from the earlier dyson models.  Still researching and learning the reasons.  Tho MOLE posted the reasons in a post awhile back.  And we are slowly learning he's right.

The air watts and dirt bin capacities have been consistently down sized with subsequent dyson model.  Now the filter maintenance is also increased.  Making the user more burdened with performing frequent filter cleanings which degrade the life of the filters.  Prices are the same and/higher.

A sad commentary for dyson, its products and dyson fans who praise them.  The only glimmer of hope that dyson can point to here in the USA is the reliability rating it received from Consumers Report in March 2008.  It was second only to Kirby.   But this is the first time it was rated for reliability.  CR adds the caveat that the rating must be sustained to be meaningful.  Time will tell.

Carmine D.

Isn't high product turnover good for a company?  I mean what company doesn't want new product turnover to boost the bottom line with resales?  As I read here there definitely seems to be a healthy "Dyson" debate with a couple of posters on both sides.  It is obvious by the Pro Dyson side who they like, but I am curious what company the other sides posters prefer?  Is there currently a more succesful company that you guys stand behind?  If so how do they hold prices in these economic times, re sell without product line turnover, and how are they currently more succesful than Dyson?  It just seems so easy to nit pick a company if all you are going to do is take the negative side so I am wondering what you see as the current and climbing success story.

Hello JackD:

Can I conclude, since you have changed directions in your posts, that your concerns are satisfied at least for now with the dyson printed claims, their revisions, and the events and dialogue surrounding them?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Not really, I am still researching.  A little confused by the posts here.  Seems to be both some strong support for Dyson here as well as what seems to be some vitriol towards the company and/or product.  I guess I am just first trying to figure out what the animosity is about from both sides as well as trying to figure out some facts as I don't think I could figure them out from this site alone as it appears to be a bit of emotional "gotcha" rather than Pro and Con discussion.  I suspect there is not really a "consumer" debate going on here but a few "insiders" looking to influence the market in thier direction.  I do appreciate the answer and the point in the right direction but in reading the posts I think I might be better off looking for the answer myself.

I guess my follow-up was really just trying to figure out what the Non-Dyson side's "angle" was as the other side seems obvious.  So I really didn't "change direction" in my posts I am still fact finding, perhaps guards may come up quickly here.

Perhaps others will respond and provide some more answers and insight for you. 

Most of the posters here, unlike you, are veteran posters of many years on several different vacuum Forums.  Going back to even before dyson launched in the USA in 2002. 

Not having the benefit of the past history and personalities, it's understandable to look at this site now and have the view you have.  Particularly about the persons who critique dyson.  It's like reading the last page of a novel, learning about the death of the protagonist, and asking why.  Well to get the answer, you need to read the beginning, middle and end of the novel.  Then, it all comes together.  Unfortunately they don't make/sell Cliff Notes for Vacuum Forums with the main characters, themes and plot neatly summarized!

I was in the vacuum business from 1949 to 1992.  I owned and operated a vacuum store in Bloomfield NJ.  I sold the business to another vacuum dealer who still has the store.  He and I still talk and keep up to date on the bsuiness.  The store is an historic landmark on the Newark, Bloomfield, Belleville border lines.  After 1992, I was a self-employed consultant to the industry working for both private and government entities on all matters related to vacuums.  In August 2006,  I retired and moved to Las Vegas.  I receive at least one offer of part/full-time employment every week related to the vacuum business.   So far, I've turned them all down.  Some reluctantly.  Not for love of money, but love of the business. 

I trust your research and fact finding will be successful.  If I can assist, I certainly will try.  If you prefer private emails, that's fine too.  Just send me a message offline and I will answer in kind.

Carmine D.