Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

First upright from Miele

29 February 2008 This summer, Miele will launch its first range of upright vacuum cleaners – the S7.  It will consist of about six models, all of which feature ultra large dust bags and  “a unique swivel body, which makes it easy to manoeuvre in even the trickiest  of room layouts”. According to the company,  the decision was made following  numerous requests from customers that wanted to buy Miele  but would only use  an upright model. Text: courtesy ERTweekly.com Picture: courtesy Miele.co.uk, 2009 Edited 21st March 2009; reason: loss of original image.

Trilobite:

Several years back Miele introed the art

series uprights for the yuppies in small

upscale residences. The S7 looks like an

actual commitment to enter the upright

market with seriousness [with 6 models]. 

Should be interesting. 

Nice modern styling.  Sleek.  Has nice wow appeal. 

I read the fine print on the ad and Miele is trying to

capitalize on its rep for premier canns and says it's

launching the uprights to meet the demands of its

customers who don't like canns and tanks.

Has my interest.  Keep us posted, please on the

status and price.  Anyone know when they are

coming to the USA?  BTW the ert article was light

on the info and details as I expected.

Carmine D.

Now this I like...

Just doing a search on more info on the Miele S7 Upright and came across this link:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mglong/tags/s7/

S7 made of LEGO!!  But you can see what I believe is the real S7 models in one of the pictures in the background!

DC18

DC18 wrote:
Yes, I see them..

Very Large Picture

The main body of the upright looks slim, I wonder if it is heavy to lift!  Hope they are not like the new 'mach' series from Vax (UK) they are very heavy to lift!

They should be coming out in a few test markets this summer/fall. Only a handful, (VERY FEW), scattered dealers in a cross section of the US will get them. Assuming the response and reliability are OK then other dealers should get them. They are really counting on this being a superior machine.

Though it is quite nice, this is not Miele's first uprights.

Miele has been producing uprights plus stick vacs for years.  See link --

http://www.miele.com/usa/vacuums/product.asp?cat=1&subcat=2&model=33&series=5&menu_id=6&nav=21

Best,

Venson

Those are Panasonics. The new ones will be Miele Made.

What do you know?  Even comes with a head

lamp that lasts forever.  What will Miele think of

next?

Carmine D.

Lucky1 wrote:

Hi Lucky1,

You're right.  Yes, the S184 and S183 are made by Panasonic for Miele. From what I saw on Miele's UK website, the company only offers canisters in its vacuum cleaner listing which I guess technnically makes the S& upright a first for for European consumers.  The only question now is when and if the product will reach the U.S.  I called Miele today to inquire about that and their vacuum rep said she knew of no plans to head the S7 in our direction.  I'm surprised that this wasn't a given as Miele has a following here in the States.

Best,

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

I read the specs on the Panasonic made Mieles from the site you posted.  Note both uprights [the Powerhouse S183/184] are recommended for low to medium pile carpets and smooth surfaces.  I thought that was interesting and honest.  Apparently, Miele sold these primarily for Euro consumption based on Euro designed/made carpets and rugs.  Further adding credence to the ert article in which Miele says it is offering the new Miele made uprights for its customers who do not like tanks and canns. 

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:
My connections say: They should be coming out in a few test markets this summer/fall (OK Maybe Winter). Only a handful, (VERY FEW), scattered dealers in a cross section of the US will get them. Assuming the response and reliability are OK then other dealers should get them.

Well then Lucky1 -- old pal of whom never a derogatory word has passed these lips -- how could I go about getting one?  PM me.  We won't tell the rest of the crew :)

Thanks,

Venson

I'm 3000% sure my shop won't be selected BUT Where I used to work may very well. If they do get it...I will let all know.

Lucky1 wrote:
Well . . . I tried.

HI Venson,i wiil ask my east coast miele connections,you know the new jersey guy's and the new york guy's.Another dealer that should get them is Andy in springfield Mo.

Lets see if MIELE prices the machine out of reach of most customers,

MOLE

 

Lucky1 wrote:
I do not think so.  At least not the past few years.

Mole;
While you are at it, why don't you ask those guys to look on  the machine and tell you where it was made.

Miele has had a new upright vacuum cleaner in the works for a few years now. 

If you look at the head, you can see it still resembles one of the older Miele upright models.

I believe that the machines will range form $700.00-$900.00.  This would be in competition w/SEBO.

Yes, it is true that they are not going to be available to everyone at first.

How successful will Miele be with uprights? 

Not just in Euro but the USA?

Any thoughts?

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:

It appears unreasonable to have 6/7 uprights from $700-$900. 

To many to be so close in price.  Perhaps the upper end will

be, but I imagine one/more will be priced less.  Why?  Some

savvy shoppers, even Miele, will be reluctant to plunk down

$700-$900 on a new model.  May go $500,  then trade up if satisfied.

My sense is the 6/7 uprights are offered in different price ranges

to see which are most desirable among vacuum buyers in different

markets.

Carmine D.

My Uprights say ASSEMBLED IN THE USA, so I'm assuming they are the Mexican Pana's shipped over to the US to be put together. Just conjecture, so I will try to find out for sure.

Canisters are more popular in the East and North East. Miele wants to get some market share of the Midwest & Western upright US market. I also feel the price that you guys have mentioned might be too high as well, especially for Wallymart heartlanders!

Lucky1 wrote:
That is interesting, since I had heard a few years ago that Miele had found someone to assemble their uprights, other than Panasonic(Matsus_h_ita).  So if they are assembled in the USA, then they would be done in Danville, KY.

The price that I had mentioned for the new uprights would be for the higher end models.  I have no idea what the low end would be priced around, but it would not be priced for "Wallymart heartlanders".  The present uprights are priced alittle high for them now.  

Tho Wal*Mart has added the DC18 now in lieu of the

DC07 exclusive, I doubt if Miele would make it there even

at the same price as the DC18.

Miele is a dealer vacuum and caters to upscale vacuum

buyers concerned with quality and dependability.  The

heartland of America consumers are "USA made" minded.

Interesting to see if the components are Miele made in

Deutschland and shipped to the USA for assembly and sale

in the USA markets.  With the dollar down against the Euro

this would be a viable alternative for Miele in the US vacuum market

to keep the prices affordable.

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:
Kentucky it is! Pana Factory/ Miele Specs.

Lucky1 wrote:

Made in the USA.  Miele translates its Deutsch marks into US dollars and realizes a profit just from the conversion.  Very smart.  And Miele gets the nod from the heartland of America consumers who want to buy American.  Win, win.

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:
Not sure if we are confused here...two threads going on at the same time. The PRESENT Miele is USA made, the NEW version is supposed to be German Made.

Lucky1 wrote:

The operative word is highlighted.

Carmine D.

I understand your skepticism but I'm not sure where or why? Doesn't make sense to invest so much in a new vacuum development to get what you already have. Even if they had the forsight to see the collapse of the dollar they still would have gone to China if saving $'s were their main goal. This is still a private family run biz and they have the luxury to answer only to themselves and not stockholders. I commend them for trying to always do better not sell out. So I maintain, in MY opinion, the new upright will be made in Germany. (I have no problem in apologizing if I'm wrong).

And so it may be.  

I recall years ago, many saying that Miele would never enter the upright market, especially in the USA!

Look at the competition.  Who is it?.  Miele has an established name and reputation in the

USA vacuum industry with a network of dealers in place.  It is in a prime position

to shake up the upscale upright market in the USA.  With the dollar down at an all time low

against all the currencies in the world, including the Euro and Deutsch mark, Miele is in a catbird

seat to rule the upright vacuum world starting with the USA: The largest market for uprights. 

Miele is launching uprights and plans 6-7 models.  Wow.  How many years does it take other

vacuum makers to launch that many upright models? 

No, Miele is not just trying to satisfy its cann customers who like uprights.  Miele is on a mission to

dominate the upscale upright market especially in the USA.  I can't think of a better time to do it.  All the right mix of business factors are in place.

Carmine D.

Has anyone got any literature regarding this machine?  I cannot find on the internet or the Miele website.

bucks03 wrote:

Bucks,

I can't find a thing either or the mag article.  Nonetheless, I came across a picture taken either by a Lego or Miele lover.

Venson

bucks03 wrote:
The new line is not available yet.

This is where the info was found-

http://www.ertweekly.com/Default.aspx.LocID-05nnew183.RefLocID-05n021001.htm?sksearchtext=Miele%20S7%20upright

It just seems to me that miele,like the other german manufactures offer too many different configurations of the same thing.I can see offering 2 or 3 different models,but 6 or 7 come on.IT looks like they are trying to protect the brick and mortor shops from the internet.They better not burn their dealers again... their credability has already been hurt...........

MOLE

A recent KPMG report, worldwide finance and consulting firm, states that the USA is the most affordable country for multi-nationals to operate businesses.  Beating out other countries like Britain, France, Germany, etc.  China not included.  Reasons for the USA's win: Falling dollar and euro highs.  This is first time in years the USA is the most affordable.

Carmine D.

Why don't I feel comforted by that?

Lucky1 wrote:
Maybe because you wont make a reasonable profit on them,did you know that miele will sell direct to the consumer,they will tell you different,call customer service and ask about all the wand and hose breakage,i know they will tell you that their stuff doesnt break and are unaware of any problems,Im getting real tired of this outsourced junk.Ditto for BOSCH. made in germany with parts sourced from other countrys just like the rest of them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Although there is great money in the parts and filters and bags,These guys like dyson have a nice long story behind them. Their new canister line looks a lot like BOSCHES does it not?

  THE MOLE

Hello Mole:

What's a reasonable profit on a Miele?

Do you do your own business books and records and/or have someone do it? If you prefer to message privately, do.

Carmine D.

mole wrote:

Quite true.  Miele has a "Buy Online" page at its website.  The S5980 (the Capricorn) sells along with the SEB236 power nozzle for $1,195.  Mieles are vacuums I like a lot.  It just the price that makes me skittish.

The best points in reference to the brand are usually wonderfully low noise levels, very good suction and optional tools, though often expensive, that help you fine tune your manner of vacuuming.  However, I must say that I didn't feel I was missing anything when using a top-of-the-line Kenmore canister I had. 

Nonetheless, there's a guy at the following link who swears by Miele. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5NLlCWNF6U&feature=related

Venson

Hi Venson,it's at the point of downright price gouging,must be taking lessons from the oil companies,and the government,I busted you and now i will have a book written about me telling the world what a wonderful person i am.I know many different dealers in the floorcare and automotive industrys that cant even buy at these prices[wholesale].Heres a typical management quotation when dealers complain about profit margins,if there lucky to get anyone even interested in what they are selling,JUST HIT THEM WITH THE OLD BAIT AND SWITCH ROUTINE.It seems the industry is going to pot.........

MOLE

Im real glad im in the parts and service end of the industry..............

The test markets for the upright should be determined in the next week or two. It will (supposed to be) available to dealers in October.

Miele uprights look interesting.  Will be fun to check them out mid to late summer.
Only reason I like Miele is that they run quietly. 
In a room with hard surfaces vacuums can generate an awful lot of noise because no sound is absorbed.
Even the central Vacuflow unit with powerbrush can be an ear bender in those situations.
Not so Miele.
Still, Mieles remain very pricey compared to most vacs.  The appreciated Euro isn't helping them any.

vacomatic wrote:
Not so actually...sales are stronger than ever. Might be that many customers are tired of all the 6 MO-2 YR vacuums they have previously bought.

I hear it very often from my customers.

Ask anyone who spent what was considered PAYING TOO MUCH for a quality vacuum like an Electrolux 20 years ago if they regret it.

I just bought a new Miele S7280 from my local Vac Shop on Saturday.  They got in 6 to sell under a testing phase.  I paid $599.99 for it. 
Pros:
It looks cool.  I have the black/red model.  My husband said it looks like a vacuum cleaner Spider Man or Iron Man would own.  I am hoping that it looks "cool" enough to make him want to use it.
It has a 40 foot cord.  I have a small house and I can vacuum my entire first floor without having to relocate the plug.
It swivels and it's self propelled.  That makes it super easy to maneuver around the house.
It leans all of the way down to the floor.  I haven't actually had to use that feature yet so I have no real opinion of it.  But it's nice to have in case I need to do that.
It has the suction control and switches from floor to carpet.  That has come in handy quite a bit for me as I vacuum carpet, linoleum, curtains, cat trees, and different pet toys.
The vacuum cleaner does an excellent job cleaning up my home.   I have 10 cats and 4 dogs so there is a constant battle with pet hair around here.  The Miele has made vacuuming it up easy and my carpets look better than they have in years.  I was previously using a Dirt Devil Reactor so there is a huge difference in the quality of vacuum I was using.  I expected to fill up the bag by now, but I the indicator is only half way over.  That's a plus for me.
It comes with 3 tools: a crevice tool, a dusting brush, and a upholstery tool.  The wand is telescopic and allows me to reach the corner of my ceilings where cob webs collect.  The vacuum hose disconnects from the wand allowing you to use the tools much easier.
The head lamp is all LEDs.
Also, I can reach the top of my steps with the hose, so no more pulling the vacuum up the steps as I clean them.


Cons:
I hate the dusting brush.  It's too small and gets all clogged up with pet hair since the bristles are too close together to allow for proper air flow into the hose.
The foot pedal to recline the vacuum is difficult to use.  I step on it and I have to move the vacuum around a bit to get it to lean back.  Usually is slams to the floor as I lean it back.
At the Vac Shop I asked them to test the air emissions of this model.  We first used the tester on the Miele Capricorn canister.  It went down to 0 in just about a minute. 
With this vacuum it stayed between 2 - 3000.  However when we tested the Sebo X4 (which is what I was going to buy), it was over a million.
It doesn't edge as well as the Sebo X4 when I compared them using clean cat litter from home at the Vac Shop.  My local Vac Shop let me bring down cat litter and my own pet hair to do some real tests to make sure I was getting the right vacuum cleaner for me.

I hope this review helps.  I really love this vacuum so far and my home looks and feels much  cleaner.  It has made vacuuming much easier for me.  With my old vacuum I usually had to go over things several times to get the pet hair off.  Now I only go over everything once and it's clean.  Even my cat tree looked brand new after a good vacuuming with the Miele.  I shaved my 2 long haired dogs down on Monday and the living room was covered in hair.  We picked up the big chunks and let the Miele do the rest.  We only ran it over the carpet 1 time and all of the hair disappeared.  It also does an excellent job vacuuming my cat litter (World's Best).  I would highly suggest this over the Sebo X4.

Thank you for the review. 

I hope you will post this on the review page here on the site under the Reviews Tab at the top of the page.  I'm sure readers will find your comments and analyses very useful.

Carmine D.

catlady,

Excellent review.  It is almost written too professionally.

With all due respect, what is you relationship with Miele?

Hi catlady,

Thanks for the news.  I've been waiting with bated breath to hear and I'm glad to learn the new upright is of some worth.

I'm only concerned about one thing you mentioned -- the bag gauge.  It is usually better not to put too much trust in it.  The more it shows means the airflow has been impeded.  The same airflow you clean with also is used to cool the motor.  It is best  to manually check dust bags and to dispose of them when they're around three-fourths full.  Anyway . . .

Enjoy the new machine and use it long and well.

Best,

Venson

I will go ahead and post my review in the Review section. 
An update,
The bag indicator has only been halfway over for the last few days.  However, I vacuum daily and was sure the bag should be full by now.  I checked it tonight and it still has some room in it.  The bag holds a lot more than I would ever give it credit for.

HARDSELL wrote:
LOL,
I have no relationship with Miele.  I have been researching vacuums for about 2 years now.  I was having a very difficult time justifying buying such an expensive vacuum cleaner.  Unfortunately, with as much as I vacuum, I was killing my vacuums and needed a new one every year or so anyway.  I began to research vacuums a couple of years ago and decided that with my economic stimulus check, I would finally take the plunge.  I was actually going to buy a Sebo X4 and I have been driving my local Vac Shop crazy over the last few weeks showing up with different things to vacuum up.  I think I tested every vacuum they have in the store.  When I went down that day to buy my Sebo, the guy showed me the new Miele he just got in and we tested it against the Sebo on everything.  I went home and got cat litter and brushed my dogs out and brought back the hair.  I'm sure they thought I was crazy.  But if I was going to pay that much for a vacuum, I wanted to make sure I was going to be happy with my purchase. 
The Miele sold itself to me.  I've been very happy with it ever since I brought it home.

Hello catlady:

You did all the right things before buying your Miele.  And your Miele will last 20 years [based on industry history].  When you amortize the original cost of your vacuum over it's lifetime, you see it is well worth the purchase price.  $30 a year plus bags and routine maintenance.  Very nice.

Thanks for posting the Miele review here on the discussion page and on the review page.  Makes me want to buy one too.  What is the warranty period on this Miele model?  You may want to add that info to your review on the review page too.

Enjoy your new Miele.

Carmine D.

catlady wrote:

catlady,
Thank you for the response.   I do not recall reading such a well written review.  And now you provide very valuable info that others should follow before purchasing a vacuum.To me , at least  daily vacuum simulations are better than any magazine articles.  Would you share with us what  brands you tested other than Sebo (if any).

You are one cool kitty.

CarmineD wrote:
At this time the warranty is "open ended".  I am not sure exactly what that means, but my local Vac Shop told me that since these are not officially released the warranty is open for any repairs until they actually release these on the market.  Then Miele will decide how long to warranty the vacuum.  However my manual states it is only a 2 year warranty.  My Vac Shop guy tells me that it is not official. 

HARDSELL wrote:
I tested every Miele Canister he sells.  They are all excellent, but I just didn't want a canister (maybe even a little better than my new upright).   I tested the Royals, which are just too heavy.  I tested the Sebo canister and upright (loved them, but the Miele outperformed them in every test except the edging).  I also tested a Filter Queen that he had in, but does not normally carry.  I felt that it was too awkward to use and clean out.  I tested an Oreck, but it was no comparison to the Sebo's or Miele's.  It just didn't clean as well.  I also tested another brand that he carries, but I can't remember what it was called.  I'll check on that the next time I'm in there to pick up bags. 
BTW, I did change out the bag today after vaccuming up the entire house.  It still wasn't full, but I followed the advice of Venson.  The vacuum does have overheating protection, but why take the chance.

catlady wrote:

Hello catlady:

Thanks for posting the warranty info.  Miele sets the warranty guidelines.  The vacuum store selling the product applies it.  If the store wants to warrant the product beyond Miele's period, that is the store's personal and professional business.  An advantage of buying from an independent vacuum store owner/operator vice a big box retailer.

Carmine D.

Hi 'Catlady',

What type of brushroll / agitator is fitted to the New Miele Upright?

Is it a simple brushroll, or does it have beater bars?

Is the brushroll metal or plastic?

(Thanks in advance).

As I understand it, this new machine will use the same or very similar brush to the current SEB 236 brushroll.  It also apperantly uses the Vortex motor, and the 500 series (not the 5000) type HEPA filter.

Vacuuman wrote:

Vacuuman,

I believe you are correct.  I was told that the brush is the same as the SEB236 and the vacuum does use a vortex motor.  The HEPA filter is the same that they use in the canisters, but I apologize for my ignorance, I'm not sure if that is the 500 series.

Well, the Miele rep brought in the new upright for us to try and look at today.  We saw the lower of the 2 models (suction dial instead of electronic) in the yellow color.  It does in fact use the SEB 236 brushroll and the 500 series HEPA filter.  The bottom plate is steel and the 2 front wheels are swivel casters which make the turning very easy.  The wheels have a odd setup for the handle release, and the easy way to release it is to tilt the machine back a little and then press the pedal.  The machine was also designed so that you can step on the handle release pedal while the machine is being used and the nozzle will lift up and go over things like the edges of rugs, or the cord without chewing it.  The bag is HUGE and fills from the top (as I suspected) much like how the bags attach in the universal upright, but at the top rather than the bottom.

Hi Reggie

comparing the miele and riccar top end uprights,which has the edge. both in price and performance,,,,,,,,,,,

thanks

MOLE

Well, that is a difficult one to answer.  The Miele rep was asking the same question, as he knows I have the top end Radiance.  The machines are different enough that they both have strong advantages, and disadvantages compared to each other.  To start with carpet cleaning: Both machines clean very well, but I give the Radiance the edge here.  This is because the Riccar uses the Tandem Air (more power) and the brushroll on the Riccar is more aggressive and agitates more, I have the same opinion of the 2 brushrolls in their respective canister/central vac power nozzles as well.  For tool cleaning the Miele was much better, although I still feel that the Riccar's tool power is enough for the average attachment cleaning and does power a turbo nozzle well.  The Miele also steers very nicely and smoothly, this is helped by the swivel wheels on the front.  And the Miele was also much quieter than the Riccar, but lightly heavier.  As for durability, I have no idea how the Miele will hold up.  I would guess that since Miele engineered it, it will do well, but only time will let us know.  The MSRP, as of now is going to be $799 for the top end Miele, and $599 for the lower model.  The Radiance has a MSRP of $1399 for the Premium, and $1099 ( I think, but can't be sure, so don't quote me) for the red one.  I think personally, i will stick with using my Riadiance at home, but because I do still feel the Tandem Air setup gives better carpet cleaning.  And as for what I feel will sell better and be more liked by the customers, I have no idea yet.

Thanks Reggie

I think from what you said both machines will sell very well. Miele priced the machine with in reason [worthy of the price].Its very encourageing to see that MIELE thought the machine out before releasing it to the public,

Dont need another piece of ART work just something that gets the job done,

wonder if it took 500 engineers to develop it

MOLE

mole wrote:

Hi MOLE:

As we know, although not always said, Miele has a very successful line of large household appliances [washers, dryers, ovens] and small [coffee makers] for many years.  With an excellent brand name and reputation.  Abroad and in the USA.

Carmine D.

Hi,

I've been doing web searches like forever it seems to get some new news about the Miele S7 upright.  Per Miele's UK site, the cleaner will officially be on sale this October.  There is now an S7 "teaser" site set up and though there's very little to see you can sign up to win your very own Miele S7 upright vacuum.  Not about to let a little thing like the Atlantic and a hundred or so extra volt difference stop me, I signed up anyway.  Link follows.

http://www.miele.co.uk/s7/index.html

Venson

I've signed up to Venson, be interesting to see this vacuum when it is launched!

DC18

Best of luck DC18.

Venson

Thanks Venson, Good Luck to you too.

I wished they would put a bit more info on the website to have a look at!  Sure they will at some point!

DC18

I signed up as well.  Haven't yet seen one of these in person, but would love to.

Good luck to everyone else who entered, hopefully one of us here will be the lucky recipient!

I've run into my first problem by purchasing the new Miele before it is officially released.  My Vac Shop cannot get the vacuum bags and I have run out.  If anyone knows where I can get vacuum bags for the new Miele, please let me know.

Thanks.

Melanie

Hey Melanie,

First of all when you go back to your vac shop, tell them there is such things as stopping a moment to think.  Per Miele headquarters in New York, there are bags available.  I am told about fifty-some boxes (four bags per box) are on hand.

You may not place the order yourself but must go back to your MIele dealer and ask him to call 1-800-999-1360 and request part number 07282050.  Please note that the phone rep I spoke with would not inform me of the price per box.

Hope this helps,

Venson

Thank you Venson.  I will call them tomorrow with that information.
Melanie

Hi Melanie,

You're very welcome.  If you don't mind saying, please let us know what the going price is for the bags.

Best,

Venson

Miele S7 is available this month in Canada at of all places, select Canadian Tire stores.  Retails for $499

http://www.torontosun.com/life/gadgets/2008/09/19/6809616-sun.html

Dusty

Thanks Dusty.  I noticed the article saying that the S7 is self-propelled.  Cool.  As two models are shown (one silver, one red), I wonder if one or both are.

Venson

Venson, Dusty:

Thanks for the Miele S7 upright info, Dusty.  Good review of the Miele S7 and dyson DC24 by Joanne Richards of th Toronto Sun.

Venson, I noticed from the pics that the S7 silver has a headlight and the S7 red does not.  I suspect both S7 models are self propelled. 

Carmine D.

How long before the public figures out that MY-ELLIE is an overpriced panasonic????

JUST WONDRING

MOLE

Hi Mole,

How's it going?

I get your point but I think Miele rates its prestige by at least usually appearing to go the extra inch (I definitely intend no comparisons to claim they're that far ahead of anybody else) when others who I feel  might find it no particular problem and well worth the time to spiffy up things appear to want to do no more than they just have to.  That can always make people at least take a moment's pause in their purchase considerations.  Yet in reality, Miele is an ideal like a Mercedes or  a Cadillac.   We'd all like to have one but can't afford it or justify the price of one when faced with practical matters.

Kenmore is an old name and not suffering all that much by way of Miele or Dyson's exsistence and may do even better just by being a recognizable and relatively affordable name brand in these especially tight times for those with leanings toward "deluxe" and even not so deluxe vacuums.  Nonetheless I'd love it if Kenmore would fix up a bit and then make so bold as to say, "We have been and still are just as good as any of the rest." 

if Kenmore/Panasonic cans would simply add on that half-an-inch-worth of tubing that Miele fits into its disposable bag mouth to better prevent dust escape in the bag chamber, as far as I'm concerned, that one little thing would rank them just as good and  well worth it due to more sensible price.  After more than 20 years, the flimsy Kenmore hose-to-machine lock could definitely use a re-vamp to something sturdier.  Why haven't they?  Does it cost that much to have a foreign-made machine slightly altered/upgraded when after all the people at the factory that actually makes it get only chump-change for their effort in the first place?

Per Carmine's citing of Kenmore's 25 percent market share, they'll hold their own on name the same as Miele.   Though product information and opinion are a hundred times more accessible to most of us today than in past, there's that crowd that still follows the least path of resistance in ordinary household purchases.  The ideal of course remains but not many of us expect to get it. Many are and will be impressed by the Miele name but more than that many will continue to run to Sears, HSN and big box stores looking for price relief because a vacuum cleaner is just a vacuum cleaner to them. 

As for the Miele S7, again considering tight times, my only question is, will its introductory price be attractive or nose-bleed high as is usual?

Best,

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

I'm going with "attractive" vice nose-bleed high.  You cited the reason: "tight times."  In fact you put it mildly.  Most retail industry watchers are predicting this holiday season to be the worse in 17 years.  Most retail stores agree and are cutting back holiday help as well as prices.  This year is particularly worse because there are 5 fewer days in the holiday season vice last year 2007.

Times are very bad.  Unemployment high, retail sales down, housing market worse since the great depression of the 30's, tax payer bailouts of the Wall Street stalwarts to the tune of ONE TRILLION DOLLARS [does anyone think this is socialism and inflationary beside me], financial markets tanking at home and abroad.  And no end in sight.  No light at the end of the tunnel.  2009?  2010?  Who knows how long the difficult economic times will last?  There's already rumblings of massive credit card debt becoming 'toxic' just like home mortgages and the subprime slime. 

Miele sales prices definitely will have to be affordable for those shoppers looking to buy from independent vacuum cleaner stores.  If not affordable, the Miele new vacuum sales will be non-existent. 

Carmine D. 

Hi Carmine,

What can I say except that you're so right?  "Tight times" is nowhere near an effective description of what's going on as of late.   I find the whole thing so thoroughly confusing that I'm just plain flabbergasted.  Besides which, the result of an effort to more thoroughly put a handle on what is happening to daily life in a world we believed impenetrable by real harm is hard for a guy who still can't watch "Nightmare on Elm Street" without peeking through his fingers.

I just happened to be browsing the New York Times online today and came across a link to a virtual tour of an apartment on sale among many other in downr.  It was in a renovated building on Prince Street in Manhattan but bore nary a stellar feature.  It had just two bedrooms, one bath and no view but the selling price was near $800,000.  All I could ask myself was, how could this be happening when no one is supposed to have any money?  Are there really still people who can either afford to buy or acquire financial backing to buy "nothing" for that much money.

As well, when the first news about the AIG bailout hit the presses a few days back, I wondered how it could be that despite our inescapable awareness here of the homeless situation in the city, the overwhelming need for the development of more affordable housing not for some but everyone, and  the need for a new school or two that suddenly 85 billion dollars could be dug up to help a corporation that had already had a lot of money and blew it mess up some more.

As always -- my Miele was bought on a little bit of "mad" money and that's probably the only way I could with good conscience advise anyone whose income did not balance proportionatly against the expense.to get one.  People will still be wanting vacuums but no matter the talk of convenience and ultimate effectiveness, bottom line, the larger part of us will learn to make do.  I hope that the longtime price gougers will find a lesson in that somewhere along the line.

Venson 

mole wrote:

Nothing to do with Panasonic, whatsoever . This new design range of uprights, are Miele thoroughbreds. The shape of the bag compartment area takes its design cues from the cylinder cleaner range.

The agitator design is from Miele cylinder powerheads, with an enclosed agitator cavity. Panasonic use a different agitator design with those edge-wheel brushes and metal end plate covers, that allow too much air to skim over the surface of the carpet, and not enough air to be drawn through the carpet.

The motor will very likely be of the latest Miele 'Vortex' design. Panasonic have their own motors.

The bags are Miele; filters are from past Miele designs.

The hose design is different to Panasonic's.

And it will probably be made in Germany. Panasonics were originally Spanish made, and now made in China.

All-in-all, a totally dissimilar machine to the Panasonic cleaners.

INFORMATION: The correct pronunciation of Miele, is "Meal-a", with the 'a' sounding as in "apple".

Hi Trillo,

You are right to a certain point,

However the panasonic / riccar simplicity mid range machines work and feel just like the meela, after 3 years the same problems will crop up [its just the way it is,its called the human factor],

Should the customer be charged nose bleed prices just because meela says they should?

There is no one on this forum or any vac dealer in the country that can look their customer strait in the face and say that the meela is a better machine than a panasonic.The s7 bag housing looks a lot like the riccars right down to the latch.

I just hope myellies reputation is not compromised, Lets face it they were never known for an upright cleaner,they are testing the waters and lets just say that [THEY WONT GET EATEN UP BY THE SHARKS].


Here some advice for them and the others[ITS THE ATTACHMENTS STUPID]

The only function of a vacuum cleaner is to suck air in and blow air out, Who watches you do housework? Vacuums have been the same for over 100 years they pick up dirt and filth in the dwelling thats real enticing isnt it? Since when has a vacuum cleaner become an art form, Oh i know MIELE has or had a machine called the ART remember them? IT was a real black mark for emmer besser,

B.T.W. the upright market is really going down the chute,in case you have not noticed................

regards

MOLE

mole wrote:

Hello MOLE:

You think and speak like an old time vacuum man.  [God Bless you!]

Ironically, Joanne Richard from the Toronto Sun, who reviewed a dyson DC24 and Miele S7 [posted on this thread] is a self-proclaimed canister loving lady [could be her Canadian culture].  The cann fans are the rise in the USA.  Up to and through the 50's, tanks/canns were more prevalent in US homes than uprights.  The trend changed in the 60's and later, thanks to HOOVER.  But, the vacuum pendulum is swinging back again towards canns.  What's old is new again!

The lines of distinction between vacuum makes are getting blurred too.  Miele S7 looks like a RICCAR Radiance.  HOOVER cann looks like a RICCAR cann!  What gives here?  The times they are a changing.  Brand name loyalty is kaput.  Price and performance are the key reasons.  A $50 Dirt Devil upright cleans and grooms carpets as well as a $700 Kirby!  In tough economic times, [like these now] many vacuum customers prefer the former to the latter.  If the DD lasts a year or 2, rather than 30 years, who cares?  People are worried about keeping the roof over their heads and putting food on the table tomorrow and next week.  Not what vacuum they will pass down to the next generation. 

Miele prices comparable to other high end vacuum store brand prices.  Count on it!

Carmine D.

Miele may have never been known for an upright, but they have never been known for a BAD upright either.  The Powerhouse models, while not a dedicated Miele design (Panasonic if I recall?), are still good vacuums that are fairly lightweight, reminiscent of the old Sharp uprights.  And their Universal Upright, when equipped with a power nozzle, is a fantastic cleaner, only downside is no brush on/off switch.  Definitely gives cleaners of similar size a run for the money, like Oreck...

I haven't yet seen one in person so I can't tell, but I do agree that the S7 appears to be a bit on the large/heavy side, like the Radiance/Synergy which weigh a TON.  Hopefully, unlike those, the handle grip won't snap off.

CarmineD wrote:
Hi Carmine,as you already observed this trend has been going on for 4 years now, many insiders that you and I know have said this same thing,there is no distinct design differences, bagless,bagged,uprights,canisters,all little clones of each other.

The only companies that have held true to their tradition are AERUS/ELECTROLUX, KIRBY, AND REXAIR/RAINBOW, I would even throw in TRISTAR/COMPACT,Even a few imports have held true also,such as HENRY,SEBO IN THEIR UPRIGHTS[OTHER THAN THE FELIX] which the jurys still out on,The germans have seemed to sell out bosch/miele are almost the same,And the chinese stuff looks like they use the same set of blueprints and specs,

MOLE

mole wrote:

Hi MOLE:

God Love these companies and their managements for keeping them unique and classic.  If I were in the vacuum business still, or getting into it now, I would specialize in these vacuum brands exclusively and even perhaps Venson's pick: The Nilfisk not to mention my own fave: Lindhaus.  Might even consider Dave's ORECKS for the older crowd.  And thumb my nose at all the others for giving in and going along to get along. 

Be well vacuum cleaner Old Timer.

Carmine D.

You know Carmine,I would also say that lindhaus[ although shunned by most vacuum experts because of name reconition] .Make possibly the best vacuum in the world.

They are sold and serviced by true vacuum guy's that know the business,they stay small and have a very loyal following.Not to mention they have not folded into the bagless scheme..............

MOLE

mole wrote:
The Simplicity Tandem Motor system, is in my opinion, pretty revolutionary.

mole wrote:

Hi MOLE:

It's not a household vacuum brand name that many are familiar with.  Not sure you remember this incident.  Not too long ago,  a self-proclaimed vacuum insider/expert posted on a vacuum Forum that Lindhaus vacuums are made in Germany.  I believe at the time the gentleman had been in and around the vacuum business/industry for almost 20 years, if not even longer.      

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

Despite the name -- I believe Lindhaus is an Italian company.  They are indeed unique.  Both upright and canister power nozzle brush rolls are easily removable and there are plenty of tool options.  There is also a "dam" option for some power nozzles that allows you to spread and work in dry carpet cleaner easily. 

The Lindhaus USA website seems a bit limited but check out the following link to Italy: http://www.lindhaus.it/

Best,

Venson

Lucky1 wrote:

Hello Lucky1:

Agreed.  Lindhaus has the two motor system too: Check out the Diamante upright on the Web Site that Venson was gracious enough to post.  And the "hottie" standing along side the Valzer!  Now that's a piece of equipment that would make any man want to vacuum daily!

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Thanks for the Web Site.  You are correct: Definitely Italy, despite the name.  MOLE would probably agree with me that when it comes to vacuum filtration Lindhaus beats them all: Including the Mighty Miele.  Excellent vacuums for those allergic/sensitive to dirt/dust.  As they say in the industry: Born to last.

Carmine D.

Comparing the Lindhaus HF6 canister to the Miele Silver Moon 500 series, leaves little in comparison. The Miele wins out, hands down every time. I own them both and know from personal experience the Lindhaus canister is bulky and clumsy. The hose attachement clamp flips up at times while using it and the hose falls off. The canister even tips over and snags on furniture. And no auto cord rewinder to boot.

I've had bad luck with the HF6 from the motor brushes sticking to the exhaust filter retainer clip breaking off. The HEPA filter is thinner and smaller than Miele's and does not seal well, allowing exhaust air to bypass the filter. Very poor design! The canister clips that attach the motor housing to the can fall off all the time.  I've even had problems with the vacuum switch/bag full indicator light malfunctioning. Noise levels are "considerably" louder as well. 

I was happy to see that Lindhaus finally upgraded and made available a high efficiency filtrete type bag. But even with the upgraded bags, the suction and airflow are nowhere near what the Miele produces. I consider the HF6 a disaster for Lindhaus since their other machines are so nice. It does make a nice shop vac and have left it in the garage. That's about all it's good for.

Can't wait for the new Miele S7 uprights to appear. My local dealer is expecting them the middle of October.

Bruce

 

hbw248 wrote:

HF6 is an older LIndhaus model, probably the oldest of the cann line-up.  Very ancient design and styling, like a Shop Vac, Rexair/rainbow, Filter Queen.  Caters to the old fashioned traditional stand up canister lovers and users.  Not my preference in a cann either.  Carbon active filters are not standard on this model but are available as an extra upgrade.  Tho, HF6 cann has a standard HEPA filter which is Hospital Grade and rated HEPA S.  I believe this model can be bought now for several hundred dollars less than the Miele Silver Moon and also comes with a 10 year warranty.

Carmine D.

hbw248 wrote:

This model has the slow start feature to reduce unneeded high amp usage for motor startup.  Probably a contributing reason for the sticking brushes.  Especially if the vacuum is not used daily and sits for long periods of time.

Carmine D.

hbw248 wrote:

This surprises me on the HF6 which IMHO is very quiet in comparison to canns of the same size and bulk.

Carmine D.

hbw248 wrote:

I'd say it is a 'has been' for today's canister lovers and users.  However, it is ideal for garage/work shop usage if carpeting is used as a floor covering on part or all of the floor room space.  IMHO, an excellent vacuum for commercial and industrial use, especially at the price about $900 new.  For home canister use, I'd go with one of the newer line of Lindhaus canns which are very comparable and competitive with the best in the Miele S 500/600 line. 

Carmine D.

Hi Bruce, Carmine,

Bruce is correct in his breakdown of the HF6. Every thing he said is true i also have run into the same set of problems he mentioned.Yes its true that the hf6 is lindhaus's problem child.The few great features the machine has are far outweighed by its clumbeness and massive bulk, i would mention also the powernozzles cord and management system its in the stone age.

Its really a shame where lindhaus has such a wonderful upright product that are really the epitone of performance and use,that they just cant get the hf6 right,i really think they missed the mark with the hf6's newer brother the aria,the dealers are really shying away from selling it,and looks to go the same road of the other lindhaus canister machines.

The aria and hf6 are meant to compete with the mieles,bosches,sebos,aerus/electrolux. but just come up short.

Sorry Mr Carp............. but i call things as they are,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


MOLE

mole wrote:

Hello MOLE:

I do too!  I'd agree with you, most independent vacuum stores sell the Lindhaus uprights.  The Lindhaus vacuums are rarely ever pushed and/or pitched.  But usually asked for by name by customers who are interested first and foremost in the vacuum's filtration and room air quaility after vacuuming. 

Lindhaus Aria has 3 cann models, if I recall: The Aria, Aria Elite; and Aria Platinum.  All 3 were intro'ed in 2007.  They are so new on the vacuum market they are still rare and hard to find.  The Arias sold are still under warranty [3 years I think].  I suspect the shortfalls of the HF6 are being translated onto the Arias.  I could and may be wrong.  But I would be interested to hear which Arias come up short, where, and why? 

I think the Lindhaus HF6 is too different in design and form from the brands like Miele, Aerus, SEBO to be competitive in that venue.   I think it's in a class by itself and meant to appeal to the old fashioned stand up canister lovers and users.  Not today's canister market buyers/users.   

Carmine D.

Hello Carmine,

The aria series has been hit by the vacuum gremlins,cord rewind problems,hose control board problems,latches and wand problems, The canister itself is pretty much standard issue as far as canisters go nothing really there to seperate itself from the mieles,bosches,riccars and sebos of the world. They have played the powerhead game also [a few different looks, none which really compliment the machine as being distinct from the others i mentioned.

If the indy's have problems from the start with a machine they are very hard to win back and are very critical on the product from then on out,I know i have and you have been too.

It's the same old story one minor miscue makes the whole product look bad, but believe you me they are all guilty of the same thing at one time or the other,I would blame it on the outsourcing of parts to the lowest bidder.

Lets face it the chinese have the general opinion just ship it you cant see it from my house,let the greedy americans deal with it.....................

nuff said'''''''''''


MOLE

Thanks MOLE:

I'm sorry to hear the latest in the Lindhaus cann line falls short in the basic areas of usability.   I would have thought based on the years of attention to detail of the LIndhaus uprights that the Aria canns would measure up and even exceed the likes of the today's cann competition including the foreign imports. 

Do you think Lindhaus will correct and perfect these faults in the future Arias in short order and/or give up/dump the Aria cann line?

Carmine D.

I would hope so Carmine if they want to stay committed to the canister powerteam market. It would not be a total loss of business though because their strong point is the top end upright market,they will survive,

If i can mention without starting a WAR , dysons still hanging on even after the dc21 disaster, they should get out of the canister market.......................


MOLE

Hello MOLE:

Thanks for your insights into the Aria's pitfalls and shortcomings.  I would hope and expect Lindhaus to correct the usability problems of its Aria canns pronto, or suffer the consequences you mentioned: A lack of credibility for the Lindhaus canns by the independent vacuum owners/operators.  The HF6 IMHO is a lost cause.  Niche use only and marginal for a $900 price tag.  Tho, the 10 year warranty is attractive.

Cordwinder, wand, latch and power head problems on a premium priced Aria cann are inexcusable.  I have a $50 HOOVER sourced cann with a cordwinder that works great and has for over a year.  The wands on this HOOVER cann are steel and adjustable.  The wands retail for one third the price of the vacuum.  Workmanship and quality issues causing malfunctions in a $1000 plus cann within the first year of sales are product killers.

I must say that it's rare in the industry for a vacuum maker [foreign and/or domestic] to nail down both a top rate upright and cann model at the same time.  HOOVER never did it despite numerous attempts, IMHO.  More often than not, the lesser of the two [upright/cann] is kept around to complement the household line of floor care products. 

Economic reality sometimes sets in and prevails especially in hard times, like now.  That will, if current conditions continue, be dyson's rude awakening:  i.e. the ill-fated contra-balancing washer.  Classic case of one man's ego over the reality of the product's performance and price.

IF [big IF] Miele nails down a quality upright [and I suspect you have your doubts just like me] it will be one of a hand full and very few who can boast a top of the line cann and top of the line upright both at the same time. 

Like you and Bruce and others, I'm waiting to see the new MIELE upright at my local dealer.  If anyone can, Miele is the one.  Time will tell.

Carmine D.

Quickly used the top line Miele S7 yesterday. a few Quick thoughts

Quality feel

Vacs nicely (but I did not have a Synergy to compare head to head with)

It swivels very nicely as well.

Easy to thrust but a little heavy to pull back.

VERY LONG HOSE and it's not supposed to tip over when it is extended

Bags and Filters easy to change plus HEPA is the same as the canister

Premium price

Hi Lucky1,

Thanks for the news.  Was the model you tried self-propelled?  Pricewise, are we talking above the $600 mark?

Best,

Venson

Venson wrote:

I am really unhappy with the availability and cost of these bags.  These are U style bags.  The cost is almost $17.00 ($16 something, can't remember exactly) for 4 bags!!!  I vacuum almost daily because I have a large number of animals in my home.  I'm going through a 1 bags every 2 weeks.  These bags are going to cost me a fortune and have almost made me regret my decision to buy this vacuum.  Plus my Vac Shop took weeks to get them in after I ran out.  I ended up borrowing a vacuum cleaner while waiting for the bags to come in.

catlady wrote:

Looks like you're one of the lucky ones to already have one of these vacuums! From what I've read on the S7, the bags are suppose to be huge. I'm surprised you're going through this many so quickly? The availability of bags should improve over time since this is a new model cleaner.

Please let us know what you think of the cleaning performance and user-friendly features. I'm sure we'd all love to hear from you on this.

Bruce

Hi Melanie,

Sorry to hear you're having a problem.  Also, thank you much for sharing the bag price with us.  Unfortunately, most expensive appliances, as well as pricey cars, carry burdensome prices on replacement parts and necessary maintenance items.  Personally, I think bigger reason for the higher expense is merely that you bought into a "name".   I hope there's some sort consolation in this by way of the machine's performance. Nonetheless, to be fair, since the cleaner was out for pre-market testing I don't think maintenance items are usually easy to get before it becomes a bona fide part of company inventory.

I have a Miele canister and a four-pack of high filtration bags can cost about the same.  I have found the best relief for Miele disposable bags' high cost is to look for a good discount for two or more packages of bags through sellers on eBay.  It may take a little time I think before bags for your upright will be regularly in stock at Miele dealers.

In the interim, hold on to that phone number and hope for the best.

Thinking on pricing, I once had a friend whose mother had left him a wonderful, large house that he probably would be paying on 'til who knows when if he'd had to have bought it himself.  It seems every time a tradesman stopped by his price went up about twenty bucks.

Best,

Venson

catlady wrote:
I have never purchased belts, bags or paid for servicing of my Dyson... ever. Sorry to hear you're unhappy. DIB

catlady wrote:  May 28, 2008

catlady wrote:  October 8, 2008

It appears something went seriously wrong between May 28 and now with your selection and opinion of the MIELE upright S7.  The $4 cost per bag blindsided you.  Is this now a deal breaker for you?

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB:

I'm sure you mentioned before, but would you mind repeating when you bought, which dyson, and what you paid? 

Carmine D.

I do still love the vacuum and stand by my earlier review.  It does a great job in my home.  It's better than any vacuum I've ever owned.  Although I am really curious about the Riccar so many people love.  But I don't think I'll be getting another stimulus check anytime soon.  The bags are a big downfall for me though.  Because I vacuum so much and I have so many long haired pets I fill up the bags quickly (about 2 weeks, sometimes a few extra days if I slack on my vacuuming).  The bags that initially came with my vacuum were 5 bags for $15.35.  Still expensive, but I did expect them to be pricey because of the quality.  I just didn't expect the actual U bags to be less for more.  I am going to mention this when Miele sends me my next survey.

catlady wrote:

Hello Catlady:

Early next year, regardless of the President/Party.  The question now is: How much?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

It seems that the imports MIELE,BOSCH,LINDHAUS,SEBO,ELECTROLUX[THE OTHER ONE] HAVE BEEN VERY LETS SAY LOFTY ON THE BAGS AND PARTS PRICING,

In Vensons shop talk discussion with the vacuum cleaner dealer from N.Y. The replacement parts,bags,filters, are really jacked up by the manufactures to the dealers.

The profit margin by the dealers is minimal,the 16.95 bags your talking about cost the dealer close to 12 bucks a package. And have to be bought by the case in most circumstances,6 or 12  in a case.

Dont expect to see aftermarket bags for this upright for at least a year [when envirocare makes them].

All in All i can see where the dealers are fed up with this B.S. from the high end vacuum makers. Miele in box stores its been going on for a while.

As a little history for them [remember what happened and look where it got HOOVER.

regards

MOLE

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,
It's a DC15. It was a demo model I bought from Best Buy about 2 to 3 years ago and I paid $300. It's been doing double duty and I have been using it as my garage vac too (I use only the hose and wand). It's unstoppable and so is it's filtration! It is a bit heavy/feels heavy to turn, true. But also and thus far it has proven bulletproof.
DIB

catlady wrote:

Hi Melanie,

Don't shoot but -- if youre living in a single home -- you might consider a central system later on down the line.  It crossed my mind since you have a lot of animals to clean up after are fastidious about it. Though the dust collection method should probably not be bagged. you would not have to worry over emptying a properly-sized unit  more than every two or three months. 

The cost of a decent central vacuum may not be all that far away from the price of some niche brand portable cleaners.  Besides the expense of HEPA filters and dust bags, you can choose a power nozzle pleasing to your purposes as well as attachments to suit your needs.  MOLE and some others here are specialists in the field and can probably give pretty accurate advice regarding the overall cost factors.

A central system is not an option for me as I am an apartment dweller (and life is not complete unless I have some gadget or another to fiddle with) but I think a central systems can be a boon in a private home with lots of kids and/or pets.  Less frequent emptying and zero emissions concerns.

Best,

Venson

How about a nutone cv850,with the centralux attachments or the wessel-werks platinum kit for 699.00, plus install beat that mr miele.............

mole

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Excellent price.  But I would not recommend the dyson DC15 for most women users.  It's too much of a monstrosity: Like the HOOVER Z!

Carmine D.

Hello Catlady:

The vacuum store owner/operator, knowing the S7 was new, should have provided you a year's supply of bags FREE with the purchase.  One or more of the other 5 buyers got more bags than you did.  

If the cost of bags is a dealer breaker for you, now is an excellent time to sell the S7 on eBay.  You will have many bidders and probably recoup most of your $600 if not all. 

A central vacuum system [CVS] is an excellent option for you.  You can use your 2009 stimulus check to make the purchase.  And the proceeds from the S7 [less the cost of a temp vacuum] for 2008 Holiday shopping.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

Free bags would have been nice but the only thing you get free these days is criticism.  What I can't understand is why the store did not have the foresight to order an ample amount of bags along with the cleaner.  Even though it was a "market test" a buyer should be accomodated with whatever's needed. I am surprised, because when I researched this the Miele helpline said they had bags aplenty. They probably still have a good number on hand even now.

Anyway, the eBay idea is a great one.

Venson 

Hello Venson:

A year's supply free may be exaggerated.  At least enough to cover Catlady's usage until bags are readily available from the market sources knowing her household needs: 14 pets as I recall.  The S7 bags are still not on the MIELE USA site. 

The good vacuum store owner, if he's been around for awhile, got a liberal supply of bags with those 6 S7 MIELE's.  More than the 2 and/or 3 that come with each model.  No criticism of Catlady's buying persona, but I suspect her enthusiasm for the new MIELE and/or her reluctance to ask, squelched any chances for a reserve of bags from the store owner/operator.  He saved that trump card and deal maker for the more apprehensive, cost conscious and reluctant MIELE S7 buyers.

Carmine D.

When I first bought the Miele, my Vac Shop guy told me that he only had 1 box of bags per vacuum and they were not free with the vacuum (I thought they would be).  At that time I paid $15.35 for 5 bags in a plain white box.  I went through those bags in about 2 1/2 months.  When I returned to the Vac Shop he told me they were ordered but never came in and they were having problems getting the bags in.  I waited and waited and borrowed a vaccum from my MIL.  Finally I posted my frustration on here.  I called Miele directly and was connected with a Salesman.  He told me that they had plenty of bags on hand and that my Vac Shop should not have any problems getting them in.  I called the Vac Shop and told them what the Miele Salesman told me and asked them why they were having such a problem getting the bags in.  The guy sounded suprised by what I told him and said he was going to call his Salesperson right away.  A week later I got a call saying the bags were finally in.  That's when I was shocked that the bags were now $16.95 (checked my receipt last night) for just 4 bags.  I thought the bags were always going to be $15.35 for 5 bags and I was more accepting of that. 

I agree that a central vac would be a much better option for me, especially because I have severe asthma.  That is why I clean so often.  So I can continue to do rescue and keep myself somewhat healthy.  I did look into a central vac before the Sebo (that was the one I wanted to buy) and before I finally bought the Miele.  My husband feels that since we want to eventually move into a bigger house in a better neighborhood we should wait and put in a central vac when we get a new house.  He doesn't want to put any more money (such as a central vac) into our current home since it needs so much work already with more important items such as a new roof and ceiling repairs from water damage.

catlady wrote:

Hi again,

I tried Canadian Tire's toll-free number, 866-746-7287, thinking there might be a way to save you a few bucks on bags by ordering them onlne from across the border.  But I learned -- first -- Canadian Tire does not ship outside of Canada -- and second -- they offer a five-pack of high-filtration bags but they cost $19.99 in Canadian money which would add to about $17.40 in currency.  Still a no-win/no-win situation.

In any event being a lover of animals, or at least animals that don't talk back, I much admire your rescue effort despite the obstacles in your way.  It must mean a chunk of work all around.  Since you have asthma, despite the possible economic advantage I will not suggest trying to re-use the bags.  (Yes, I know I'm talking sin here -- but sometimes you've just got to do what you've got to do.)  Yet, to do that would technically void any warranty coverage you're due.

In any event, I hope opportunity for the new home you and your husband are planning for will come soon and that you'll be able to avail yourself of a larger capacity cleaning unit.

Keep up the good work.

Venson

Catlady;

With all the animals in your home, I would have never recommended the machine you have.  At this rate, the cost per year, for bags alone, is going to be approx. $100.00.  I would have recommended a bagless vacuum cleaner and just ask other family members to empty it , if emptying is a problem for you.

With Miele bags, as well as other bags using the polymer, clothlike material,  the amount of debris collected can be much more than   microlined bags before performance is compromised.  The Miele will have tremendous power until the bag can fill no more.  So keep filling.  With other bags I say to chance when 3/4 full, but these bags can hold much more.

A central vacuum system has its advantages like filtering the dirt away from the living area and larger dirt capacity.  There is something I do not know if you have considered in your situation.  You will be vacuuming everyday.  This means that you will have to get the 30ft hose out, plus the other attachments.  You will have to figure out if you want to do this everyday.  There are those who use a regular vacuum cleaner and add a lighter one, because they do not want to even pull out the full-sized vacuum cleaner.

CarmineD wrote:

Hello Catlady:

I'm sorry to hear that the good vacuum store owner/operator did not offer the bags to you with the sale but instead nickel and dimed you for $15 more. 

If you an/or your husband signaled any unwillingness to spend $600 on the new MIELE S7, I would guarantee you that the store owner/operator would have sweetened the deal with a free box of bags.  Why?  To make the sale.  He would not have lost a $600 vacuum sale and a future customer for $15 worth of bags.  If he did, he would not be in the high end [read expensive] vacuum sales market for very long.

Mike's point is well made and taken.  $100 per year for bags [at $4 per bag] is a deal breaker for the MIELE S7 unless you like throwing money away.  What if the price goes up to $5 per bag.  That's $125 per year for the bags.  That's 20 percent of the cost of the vacuum for one year's worth of bags.  You should be very upset with your present/future predicament.  Unless you did not specifically tell the seller you had 14 pets, and/or specifically told him you did not want a bagless, he sold you a bill of goods with the MIELE and the bags.  If the MIELE lasts 20 years, and it will, at $100 plus per year for bags, you're facing a $2000 plus future bill for bags.  Something to consider seriously if you decide to keep the Miele.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

$2600 for 5 years of vacuuming.  Dyson is loking better all the time.

At this point in time, would you guys recommend I sell the Miele and get a Dyson?   I had researched vacuums for almost a year before finally purchasing my Miele.  I read a lot of reviews that the Dyson had frequent repair issues so I decided to look into other options.  My Vac Shop guy is very aware of my situation with the rescue I run and the amount of animals I keep in my home.  I spent a couple of months running to the Vac Shop testing vacuums after I knew how much my stimulus check was going to be.  If you guys remember from my review, the vacuum I was going to buy was the Sebo X4.  I had thoroughly tested it, but the Miele outperfomed it except in the edging test with the cat litter.  I was tired of buying vacuum cleaners that couldn't hold up to my use and felt I was wasting my money on buying a new vacuum every year.  I wanted one that was going to last.  The biggest reason I went with the Miele is because of the low emissions and how its really well built.  It's solid.  With my last vacuum I would often sneeze and cough the entire time I was vacuuming.  I do not have that problem with this Miele.  Also I don't mind hauling the vacuum around the house.  My home is small and the 40 foot cord allows me to do an entire floor at a time without having to switch the plug.  The Miele is actually pretty convenient for me and easy to use.  But now that I see how much those bags will cost me over time, it doesn't seem to make sense for me to keep the Miele.  A lot of spays/neuters could be done with that money.

HARDSELL wrote:
I always get a kick out of your posts. 

Hello Catlady:

You have a dilemma.  There is no perfect solution except the central vacuum system because of your sensitivity to dust and dander. 

A bagless like dyson, as Mike pointed out, is an option if you have a person in the household who can dump the dirt bin.  The job will have you sneezing and coughing and dreading the chore.  If you ask any doctor about using a bagless vacuum, he/she will advise you against it!  And rightly so.  Read the dyson User Guide for dirt bin dumping.  It illustrates/explains an elaborate process for allergy and asthma sufferers requiring the use of plastic garbage bags to contain the dirt and dust cloud every time you dump.  In your case, dumping will be daily if you vacuum daily.  More time, effort and trouble to use a dyson vice your MIELE!  And money spent for garbage bags!

You should familiarize yourself with these dyson dirt bin dumping instructions.  Only you can determine if the extra work, time and effort for dirt bin dumping are worth it to you to offset the $100 plus per year for MIELE bags.  The bag cost is really a need for your own personal health and well being to continue your professional animal rescue mission.  

Visit your MIELE vacuum shop owner/operator and ask what is the best deal he can give you on a year's supply of bags.  Then take his price proposal and shop around. 

Carmine D.

Lets see pets,kids, vacuum everyday bagged, bagless upright tank,canister, you think that bags are expensive, I'm just glad your NOT one of my customers.There is no right way out of this for you, If we sat down and dicussed your situation prior to buying ,i would have sent you somewhere else,because i dont want to marry you for whatever the warranty period is,I see you as a malcontent........

sincerly

MOLE

mole wrote:

No, I don't have kids and I do not see how me being upset with the cost of the bags makes me a malcontent.  I have been very satisifed with the vacuum and have had no complaints about it.  I felt I posted a very honest and fair review of the new Miele and the only complaint I have is with the cost of the new bags and the fact that I had to wait a very long time for them to come in and had to borrow a vacuum while waiting.  I think you have misclassified me as a chronic complainer.  That is not the case.  I am glad you were not my Vac Shop Salesman.  You seem a bit quick to misjudge.

I did a lot of research before I bought my vacuum and I spent a lot of time with my Vac Shop Salesman testing various vacuums.  I knew the Miele bags were pricey, but I feel that 4 bags for $16.95 + tax is excessive.  If you recall the first box of bags I purchsed were 5 bags for $15.35 + tax.  I did not know the price was going to go up for less bags.  And yes, I will go through them quickly with the amount I vacuum to reduce my asthma symptoms.  If I want to continue to work as a rescuer (and I do) this is something that I need to do to stay healthy.  I have no complaints about the vacuum itself.  I am very happy with it for a number of reasons. 

Getting a Central Vac will definately be a goal for our next home.  Hopefully we can make that happen within the next 3 or 4 years.  Until then, I will be sticking with the Miele because I like the fact that I am not sneezing/coughing when I vacuum anymore.  The bagless systems (which is what my previous vacuum was) just aren't a good option for asthma sufferers like myself.  When I went in for my allergy shot this morning, the nurse told me the Dyson is not recommended for someone with severe allergy/asthma problems like I have.  She said no bagless system is recommended due to having to empty them.  She also told me that Miele and Sebo are recommened, but a Central Vac is the best option.  So I guess I will deal with the cost of these bags for my health until I can get a Central Vac.

Hi Melanie,

I have placed a call to friend who has a vac shop in my neighborhood.  He's out today but I explained the situation to his assistant who suggested I try him this coming Monday.  No promises, but I'll inquire if he can work a deal for a bulk order.  If he can I'll send a PM with his contact info so that you may get in touch.  Basicallly, you'd need to figure out how many bags you need over x-period of time.

On the other hand, should you be able to sell your Miele upright at a good price AND if you think you coulld live with a canister machine . . .

I would not recommend a bagless machine not only because of your respiratory issues but because of the frequent need for emptying due to the volume of work you face.  Nor, for the same reasons and also because of extra maintence requirements would I suggest a water-type vacuum.  You need a cleaner with a big bag and such machines do exist. 

Not necessarily a favorite to some, there is an alternative big-bagged canister vacuum like the Nilfisk GD 930 which uses a 15-litre (4 gallon) disposable bag and that can be fitted with a power nozzle kit (Part No. 70014).  This simply designed vacuum cleaner is more usually acquired for commercial usage but is of a size suitable for use in the average home.  It comes equipped with a HEPA filter and, per tthe rep I spoke with today, I am told that the standard NIlfisk bag made for it in combination with the foam and HEPA filtering medium already in place should suffice in providing quality emissions without the use of high-filtration bags.  The canister itself weighs about 16.5 pounds, is quiet in operation plus its power cord is 50-feet long.

Standard replacement bags come in packs of ten and at the cost $22.00 per package direct from Nilfisk.  (I checked with an independent dealer and his price is the same.) The high-filtration counter-part would cost about $72.00 per pack.  The downside is that a dealer who was pricing the basic canister at $565.00 price the power nozzle kit at $300. 

However, the basic GD 930 can probably be found for at about $100 less -- again with some looking around.  Therefore the thing here, if you're interested, would be finding the machine at the best price. 

PLEASE take careful note that I am not affiliated in any way with the makers or sellers of the products I suggest and receive no compensation or special consideration from them by way of my recommendation.

Best,

Venson

Catlady aka Melanie:

Happy to hear your health and happiness of your friends are more important than money!

Take Venson's advice to heart about reusing the MIELE bags.  Most bags can't be reused.  MIELE's, especially with your usage, can be reused once. 

Your dear Husband can be your assistant.  But you will have to buy another straight suction canister vacuum [for $50/less] to accomplish the job.  You can only reuse the bag once.  Here's what your husband will do [using a face mask to keep from breathing the dirt, dust and dander]:

Cut the TOP edge of the full bag [paper/cloth].

Dump completely.

Vacuum clean the inside and outside of the used bag completely with the new straight suction canister.

Fold the edge of the cut over twice about one-half inch just enough to staple the folded seam completely closed.  If you use the clothlike paper, make a wedge out of thin flexible cardboard.  Put the folded edge of the used bag in the cardboard wedge and staple closed.  Some tape over the stapled fold will seal further and prevent leakage/breakage.

This procedure will save you some money over the long term.  This procedure will work fine for your 4 legged furry friends and you!.  The new vacuum will pay for itself after reusing 10 MIELE bags or even less.

Caveat: MIELE will void the warranty for this, as Venson said.  Don't lie, but don't tell the truth.  When you take the MIELE in, remember to insert a new [unadulterated] bag.

Carmine D.

C.L..

I hate to burst your bubble about your asthma problem,but a vacuum cleaner is not going to help you with them ,after using the machine for a month get back to us and let us know HOWS THAT WORKING FOR YA.I already know what happens,and please tell the truth.

Maybe you should buy a HALO.

MOLE

Venson and Carmine,

You have both been very helpful.  Thank you so much.

Venson, you have really gone the extra mile to get information for me and I really appreciate it.  There is a good group of people on this site. 

CarmineD wrote:

Congratulations Carmine.  You just gave the most absurd post on the forum.

You would not recommend Dyson in part due to the problems associated with emptying the bin by alergy sufferers.  Now you recommend a messier and costlier process to save a bag.

Let her husband empty the Dyson.  No allergy problem for her and no bag cost.

Thanks for the laugh though.

Happy to assist Catlady:

I suspect even if you came here before you made your MIELE S7 purchase that once all the facts and circumstances of your situation were known, and we made our recommendations, it would have resulted in the same outcome:  Purchase of the MIELE S7 for the short term with the Central Vacuum System next on your agenda.

BTW, when you get your 2009 stimulus payment, remember you heard it here first! 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Hello HARDSELL:

My good friend, I would not recommend a dyson in Melanie's case.  Firstly, the MIELE is without a doubt a better vacuum for Melanie's needs and wants than a dyson.   Secondly, for the money, MIELE is the better vacuum.  Period. 

Remember Sir, reuse of the MIELE bags is not a necessity for using the MIELE like dumping a dyson dirt bin.  This is discretionary to save some money on bags.  Melanie's dear Husband can perform the reuse process on his own time and leisure.  Not dependent and restricted to CATLADY's vacuuming time and his presence both coinciding for dumping a dyson dirt bin.  MIELE bag restoration can be done when and if desirable.

HS I recommend that you restrict your golf play to 9 holes rather than 18.  And just during the times of the day when the sun is not out.  The heat is frying the few brain cells you have left to think with.

Carmine D.

Emptying a Dyson bin with vert little dust escaping is easy...
1) Use a plastic (grocery) bag > use a pump spray water bottle and coat the inside of bag with water (dust sticks to water).
2) Per Dyson’s instructions, place bag around and under bottom of clear bin securely.
3) Dump contents into bag > be patient, allowing as much dust as possible to be absorbed by the water. > Tie bag handles into a knot and dispose or...
4) Place (without tying into a knot) dirty bag into a second clean bag and lay flat and tie the second bags handles into a knot. This will further reduce movement of dust or dust escaping.
5) Wipe clear bin dry of any water. That's it.

DIB

DIB:

Dyson devotes two pages in its User Guide with illustrations and narrative to decribe the dirt bin dumping process for asthma and allergy sufferers.  Do vacuum users have the time and energy to follow these instructions [even your abbreviated version]?  After vacuuming the house? 

Add loads of pet hair to the dirt.  One of the criticisms often heard of bagless, not just a dyson, is that pet hair sticks to all the plastic dirt bin parts and components, like the infamous shroud.  Do you have any recommendations for this?  Please don't say to spray the pets with Static Guard!  The animal rights people will be livid!

Rainbow uses water to contain dust and dirt in the canister.  Why?  You said it: Dirt sticks to water....BTW, making mud.  Mud and severe allergy and asthma sufferers don't mix well.

My advice to you: Don't play golf with HS!  Even if he lets you use his brand new $2000 golf clubs and ride his new lawn mower!

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

I have a better idea let her bring it back to her MIELE dealer that gave her such a great deal on it,with all the money he made off her im sure he will do it for free and give her a free checkup problem solved,but she would complain about the cost of the gas to get it back and forth.

MOLE

mole wrote:

MOLE:

Gas prices have come way down and still are falling.  Do you really think the consumption of gas by Americans has gone down in half since February to bring the prices down from $140 barrel to $75?  We were told demand made the prices double!  My two SUV's are looking better and better.

Sorry Mike, I know this has nothing to do with vacuums!  Just some food [gas] for thought!

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hi DIB,

If you were speaking of a less challenging situation where light vacuuming was only called for once or twice a week there'd probably be no big deal.  However, you're overlooking Dyson's small dust capacity and the frequent emptying a heavy use situation as has been described would require.  Even Dyson is not a machine that will well endure be impacted with dust and fur for long.  You could also have just about  the same amount of "clean-up fun" with a Rainbow, a "bagless" but $#%*bersome vacuum that allows you to dump stuff down the toilet but that has its own strict maintenance regimen - if you want to keep it.

If we're speaking of a household where there's a lot of other duties to be tended to, the practical housekeeper learns how to be as quick and effective as possible by way of the least complicated execution of the tasks at hand so that most of the tasks a given day brings get done.  (Not to mention gaining time for one's self.)  There's seldom time for specializing or maintenance with every use.  Thus, methods and machines that simplify the work at hand are prized and those that further complicate or make daily tasks more complicated are not considered of much use.

Vacuuming in Melanie's household is understandably a daily necessity.  Whether you like vacuuming or not, the ideal is to do the job, put the machine away and get on to the next thing that is also of importance.  That in mind, even if I were to be able to afford hired help to do my housework, I doubt if I'd actually want to pay someone for the time required (15-30 minutes) to do maintenance on my vacuum when it could be used in a more worthwhile fashion.  The best answer to the problem is a machine or system with large dirt capacity and the least painless manner of disposal for sweepings. A vacuum with a big bag and good filtration or a central system are probably probably the better answer.

Also -- no -- a vacuum cleaner will probably not be the best method to promote overall indoor air quality BUT one with good filtration and an exhaust method designed to allow the least disturbance of standing dust, fur, debris, whatever, before it can be vacuumed up should reduce the amount of uncollected matter that may be set airborne by hand methods or badly designed machinery.

Best,

Venson

Hi Carmine,the real reason for inflated gasoline, and diesel, GREED,GREED,AND MORE GREED, speculators? there was never a shortage [notice that].Your government at work,DUBYA the worst president in the history of this country.

The NEO-CON agenda, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED...........

MOLE

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine, maybe it does.  Fuel charges for delivery of goods, whether to vendors or consumers, also affect the price of just about anything we buy.

Venson

Carmine and Venson,
My dumping method takes me approximately 45 seconds to accomplish. - This is hardly a time suck.


Carmine,
As I have posted of the Dyson Shroud many times before, it's the best on earth and no others can do what he and/or his engineers did.  It is the worlds first sweeping shroud (air traveling into the bin sweeps shroud). - Fact.  Come-on, you know I recently posted you of this genius shroud invention.  Make no mistake (outside readers), hair rarely gets stuck or sucked into Dyson patented shrouds.

Reply #10
http://abbysguide.com/vacuum/discussions/30669-0-1.html

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB: 

Your enthusiasm for all things dyson is commendable but alas the facts speak for themselves. 

I'll paraphrase Consumer Reports which says pet hair has a propensity to stick to the plastic dirt bins and bin parts, including the shroud.  CR states that its test staff has to pick off the pet hair by hand to measure the amount actually picked up after vacuuming in order to score the pet hair tests.  CR consistently sites this shortcoming about bagless vacuums.  For this reason and others, CR recommends asthma and allergy sufferers avoid bagless vacuums and/or recommends the use of breathing masks in concert with bagless vacuums. 

Carmine D.

 

"As I have posted of the Dyson Shroud many times before, it's the best on earth and no others can do what he and/or his engineers did.  It is the worlds first sweeping shroud (air traveling into the bin sweeps shroud). - Fact.  Come-on, you know I recently posted you of this genius shroud invention.  Make no mistake (outside readers), hair rarely gets stuck or sucked into Dyson patented shrouds." DIB

In my experience, ladies' long hair, feathers (from duvets and pillows), synthetic long fibres from certain carpets, can and do stick to that damned Dyson shroud. That I can attest to.

It should also be mentioned that over a period of time, the Dyson will start to smell, even if the bin is emptied regularly and the filter washed. This is because the fine dust accumulates in the airducts within the shroud area, as well as the small cyclone depositing area.

I found the answer with my DC15: wash the complete, removable cyclone bin assembly.

Here is what I did. (Wear eye protection!)

Empty bin, remove clear bin, wash clear bin with detergent.

Remove pre-filter, wash both parts of pre-filter in warm water, by hand, with laundry detergent. I used P&G's "Bold" powder. Rinse well, allow to thoroughly air dry.

Remove filter lid (hinge can be gently forced off one side), set aside. There should only be the shroud and inner cyclone assembly now.

Fill a 2-gallon bucket with hand-hot water, add a scoop of laundry powder, place the inner cyclone assembly into bucket, and agitate up & down vigorously, and rotate clockwise & anti-clockwise.

Invert the cyclone assembly and place back into the bucket, using same up & down and rotating motions.

You may find that you have to empty the pail and start again, due to the amount of dirt released.

Rinse all washed parts thoroughly, and allow to air-dry for a couple of days. When all parts are dry, re-assemble and enjoy a clean machine once again!

Of course, you could save yourselves all this hassle: by buying a bagged machine. Then, when the bag starts to smell bad, simply replace the bag with a new one. Problem solved!

The best way to wash the cyclone is to not bother unhinging the filter lid, and instead remove the screws in the top od the cyclone assembly, then remove the top, and the white plate and then wash it.  Works much better.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

Is Consumer Reports science or “Laurel and Hardy laughable”, or a blend of the two?        DIB

CarmineD wrote:
Hey Carmine,

I say Consumer Reports is a “blend”...  science and Laurel and Hardy laughable.  What say you?        DIB

Trilobite wrote:
Trilobite,

While unpopular here, my tutorial of eliminating the great majority of dust pluming when emptying a Dyson undoubtedly would get tens of thousands of hits if and when I choose to upload a tutorial vid to YouTube or alike.  How do I know this?  Because it is simple to do, safe to do, fast to do, costs nothing and answers a problem that no others have answered.        DIB

If the Dyson shroud is as bad as you say, then why are multi-billions worth of corporations copying the many Dyson expired patent shrouds (Fantom, DC01, etc.) and designing around the current Dyson (DC14/15) patent?  Bissell’s Healthy Home is almost an exact copy of the patented DC14/15 shroud...  why?  Can you name a better designed shroud than the most sought after shroud - the DC14/15 shroud?

DIB

Carmine D wrote:

DIB:

I say you are definitely delirious.  It takes readers, if they read it, more than 45 seconds to go through the dyson USER GUIDE just on the instructions for dirt bin dumping.  Even so with your abbreviated version.  Do you think they accomplish the task correctly in that time?  If they don't have indoor faciliites for the dirt bin dumping, they will have to go to the garage, basement, and outdoors to do it.  That will take a few minutes or more.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hi DIB:

That's an easy one.  The Shroud of Turin!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
DIB:
I say you are definitely delirious. It takes readers, if they read it, more than 45 seconds to go through the dyson USER GUIDE just on the instructions for dirt bin dumping. Even so with your abbreviated version. Do you think they accomplish the task correctly in that time? If they don't have indoor faciliites for the dirt bin dumping, they will have to go to the garage, basement, and outdoors to do it. That will take a few minutes or more.

Carmine D.


Carmine,

You can make unwrapping a stick of gum sound difficult.

Perhaps you might want to rethink quoting CR’s findings of Dyson shrouds which you personally know nothing about. The DC15 shroud is bulletproof; little to no hair clings to it as you guess and/or quote CR. What say you?

DIB

P.S. I love proof - I hope the Shroud of Turin turns out to be the real thing by way of "good science", unlike CR’s spotty so-called science and virtues (of Dyson vacuum cleaners).

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB:

Faith allows us to believe when reason tells us we shouldn't.  Like you with dyson [and its infamous shroud].  

I find your enthusiam for copying dyson's shroud misdirected.  Brands and models with an MSRP of one-fourth and one-half the MSRP [HOOVER Whisper for $119 and BISSELL HEALTHY HOME for $249 to mention 2 of the of the bagless brands]  copy the shroud of a dyson DC15 [with an MSRP of $499.]   This is a testament to the less expensive brands not to a dyson and a DC15. 

Vacuum consumers don't care who is first.  The one who can copy the best and sell it for less wins in the market place.  It's more about economics than it is about science.

Carmine D.

Hi everybody,

For those interested, Miele UK has put a a new page re the S7 -- linkis here: http://www.miele.co.uk/products/S7hub.aspx

This next link is regard to the tests Miele claims to have done re the S7: http://www.miele.co.uk/products/S7Testing.aspx

Best,

Venson

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,
Famous shrouds not infamous shrouds...
My guess is 100 million Dyson or Dyson knocked off shrouds have or will soon be manufactured since these shrouds were invented at Dyson or by his prior company.

When you cheerlead and support knock-off artists you support the lazy.  Dyson pours money into R&D and knock-off artists do not.  Are consumers better off and the consumers standard of living better off when no new innovations come forth?

Knock off artist and the lazy vacuum manufacturers have and always will be with us and it shows.  Their belief in antiquated products have been nothing short of a gift to the innovative...  to Mr. Dyson.  Lazy manufacturers simply give Dyson the right to print money.

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Let me answer the question.  It's a good one. 

The benefit of science for every day consumers is the application of new technology [innovation] to make life easier and better: i.e higher standard of living.   [We can argue whether improving the standard of living is better since it makes people LAZY just as we can who was first to market with a shroud (Filter Queen/dyson).  But let's assume for talking purposes that increasing the living standard for society is better in this case].  If the majority of people can't afford the technology, what is the impact on society except as scientific theory?  If the technology is made affordable and practical [economics] and consumers embrace it, then you have a higher standard of living and progress. 

Now, are $400 plus for a household vacuum beyond most persons' family budgets, especially now?  How about $100-$250?  What's more affordable?  The latter, of course.  So, less expensive copies make products more affordable to everyone thereby increasing availability and the standard of living [progress].  It's' not who does it first, but who copies best and sells for less.  Economics at work in the market place after science leads the way.  Aren't both [Science and Economics] equally important for society to progress?

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Very impressive Web and product presentation by MIELE for its S7.  Thank you for posting.   Makes the competition look like high school level/caliber by comparison.  As MIELEsays:  Immer Besser.  Of the five S7 uprights, the 2 most expensive [read deluxe] have headlights.  A new and novel concept in vacuums??

So far, I like what I see, read  and hear.  Still I need to get over to the local MIELE dealer.   I'm a month overdue.  My dear Wife has already started:  You're not getting one!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

I was most impressed by the testing videos. They meant more to me than the total of features described.  It's great when a company lays it on the line in that fashion because when they show you something that at least appears concrete and encourages choosing their product.  The inference being, "One of ours will spare you the purchase of several machines over time," the testing videos also led me to a slightly gentler frame of mind regarding Miele's prices.  Though I'm sure there are brands that will last and clean well for less maybe there is real, justifiable  value in a Miele purchase for those who can afford it.

The headlight thing is old as can be.  Hoover and Eureka, among the oldest and most known big market vacuum makers, sold "economy" versions of basically the same upright that was at the top-of-the-line.  This was certainly true of the Hoover Convertible and Eureka's basic upright, already simple machines.  I just could never get a grasp of how a ten-cent light fixture, a little bulb and the two minutes worth of a man-hour could or should effect price all that much.  (But that's why I'm not rich by now.) However Miele did not remove but modified the speed options for the lower three of the S7 series by replacing the electronic adjustment with a rotary dial.

Venson

Thanks for the Miele links. I checked a few days ago but didn't notice any change from the previous generic S7 barker advert.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

We can argue who invented the shroud that is common place today, true.  Although mechanically the Health-More shroud cannot be demonstrated as having Dyson shroud benefits which is necessary and used by the global players today.

The Hoover Fusion (and its rebranding) use more-or-less a scaled down Health-Mor shroud which proves NOT to have Dyson shroud benefits.  The Fusion is demonstrated weekly on HSN and this conical shroud proves (weekly) to be an outright disaster (for user and for filtering).

DIB

Fusion on HSN...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th0sGJfUVx4

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

The mere fact that the FUSION, 3 years after it's launch, still maintains its original MSRP of $119 on HSN, is a testament to its popularity.  Even after Consumer Reports!  BTW, it's time to update with the MACH 3-4-5-6, the FUSION successors.

Recall that Wal*Mart [and Sam's Club] contracted with HOOVER for the FUSION after Wal*Mart and dyson had its falling out.  HOOVER sourced the FUSION to VAX [TTI] to use the HOOVER name.  The FUSION/+ were produced and marketed quickly in the Summer of 2005 for $119.  One of WM's best vacuum sellers of all time. 

Three years after the FUSION, the bagless brands' shrouds have gotten even better while the prices are 1/4 to 1/2 that of dyson.  Consumers get the bagless benefits/technology [as you call it] for less with the knock-offs like the MACH-s, Whisper-s, BISSELL Healthy Home-s, etc.  Dyson gave all the competition enough time to produce less expensive knock-offs and market in all the big box retail stores.  With hard economic times into the foreseeable future, the knock-offs will sell more and dysons won't.  Especially at the big box retail stores with inexperienced store staffs that can't sell the high priced dysons like the expert independent vacuum store owners/operators.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

I’m glad you agree.  The Health-Mor conical shield or screen simply fails compared to the self-cleaning Dyson screen (shroud),

Dyson created an entirely new market (low w/ high efeicency cyclonic) and has since found himself competing against his own technologies (the Dual Cyclone and multi-cyclone).  And as illustrated, (the Fusion) the conical is comical and complete rubbish.

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB:

Before you pat yourself on the back because I agree with just one of your observations, don't ignore the rest of my post.  The shrouds AND performance of today's bagless upright dyson knock-offs like the VAX, MACH, Whisper and BISSELL Healthy Home are just as good as dyson, IMHO.  These makes/models are considerably less expensive than dysons.   AND the reason these knock-offs are multiplying and selling at all the big box retail stores while dysons are sitting on the shelves collecting dust. 

MIELE on the contrary MAY fare much better than dyson with the new S7 line in big box retail stores.  Why?  What is the high end vacuum bagged competition for MIELE in the bb retail stores?  AND,  MIELE has an established name and rep for vacuums and household appliances.  Consumers know the value of the MIELE brand name.  It sells itself.  MIELE-s don't need an expert vacuum sales person to demo and close the MIELE sale at a big box store, like is the case with a $400 plus dyson.  Typically, MIELE vacuum customers are repeat MIELE buyers and pass down/gift away the old MIELE.  No need for trade-in.  Dyson?  I've not heard the repeat buy stats.  Do you know what they are?

Carmine D.

&amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;BR&amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;amp;lt;BR&amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;lt;BR&amp;amp;gt;&amp;lt;BR&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;<BR><SPAN CLASS="quotedmessageheader">CarmineD wrote:</SPAN><BR><DIV CLASS="quotedmessage">DIB:&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/p&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;p&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;Before you pat yourself on the back because I agree with just one of your observations, don't ignore the rest of my post.  The shrouds AND performance of today's bagless upright dyson knock-offs like the VAX, MACH, Whisper and BISSELL Healthy Home are just as good as dyson, IMHO.  These makes/models are considerably less expensive than dysons.   AND the reason these knock-offs are multiplying and selling at all the big box retail stores while dysons are sitting on the shelves collecting dust.  &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/p&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;p&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;MIELE on the contrary MAY fare much better than dyson with the new S7 line in big box retail stores.  Why?  What is the high end vacuum bagged competition for MIELE in the bb retail stores?  AND,  MIELE has an established name and rep for vacuums and household appliances.  Consumers know the value of the MIELE brand name.  It sells itself.  MIELE-s don't need an expert vacuum sales person to demo and close the MIELE sale at a big box store, like is the case with a $400 plus dyson.  Typically, MIELE vacuum customers are repeat MIELE buyers and pass down/gift away the old MIELE.  No need for trade-in.  Dyson?  I've not heard the repeat buy stats.  Do you know what they are?&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/p&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;p<BR><BR>&amp;amp;amp;lt;BR&amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;amp;lt;BR<BR><BR

Carmine,

You do the rope-a-dope when you're put on the spot. I have never backed down from yours or Moles baiting. I like a challenge. Sometimes I have to think for a while before answering the “bait”. But I do answer. And sometimes I do not have the free time to answer the many statements, but I try to “go after” the most pertinent or something I have an answer to. Hey, you never answered my CR question of... Is Consumer Reports (w/ vacuum testing) Science, Laughable or both?

The many variations of Dyson technologies that have been reversed engineered or copied (Dyson’s many expired patents) are indeed successful; in dollars, in sales and in the eyes of the end users. Dyson will need to re-think his floating nozzle arrangement if he wants to out-perform his own technologies (used by competing manufacturers) at Consumer Reports, Which and Better Homes and Gardens (they do their own testing too).

The Miele “swivel” launching[?] at Best Buy is an obvious attempt to siphon off or profit from Dyson proving out another segment... the Dyson “steerable’s”. Like leeches, Miele and Hoover Uk wait for Dyson to spend the big money on television advertising and only then do they launch their swivels. Dyson invented steerable’s, Miele and Hoover UK have unpatentable swivelables.


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

I was at a BEST BUY store here in Las Vegas and did not see/hear of the new MIELE S7 launch.  May be due to the fact that the Appliance Associate at BB relocated from another department and is just learning the ropes.  Also of note since my visit in April 2008, the floor space for vacuums is substantially downsized.  And all the display vacuums, which have been significantly culled since my last visit, are plugged in and ready for buyers to use. 

MIELE is a top tier bagged, high end, premium made vacuum with a well known reputation for German made quality.   The vacuum industry agrees that MIELE-s last on an average of 20 years.  If and when MIELE S7 makes a presence in BEST BUY stores, and any others, it should sell itself with little or no need for the sales staff intercessions. 

Carmine D.

Hi Guys:

If your facts were right, you wouldn't need to fight........

But alas, all the untruths you tell, are as old and bad as ........H-E-double hockey sticks. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hello DIB:

I was at a BEST BUY store here in Las Vegas and did not see/hear of the new MIELE S7 launch.  May be due to the fact that the Appliance Associate at BB relocated from another department and is just learning the ropes.  Also of note since my visit in April 2008, the floor space for vacuums is substantially downsized.  And all the display vacuums, which have been significantly culled since my last visit, are plugged in and ready for buyers to use. 

MIELE is a top tier bagged, high end, premium made vacuum with a well known reputation for German made quality.   The vacuum industry agrees that MIELE-s last on an average of 20 years.  If and when MIELE S7 makes a presence in BEST BUY stores, and any others, it should sell itself with little or no need for the sales staff intercessions. 

Carmine D.

I am always amused when people talk of European quality.  All they have to do is over price their products and Americans assume it is the best.