Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

http://gizmodo.com/345918/dyson-dc24-vac-sir-james-brings-his-ball-back

Two models, one small, one large :-

DC24
http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/product.asp?product=DC24-ALLFLOORS

DC25
http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/product.asp?product=DC25-ALLFLOORS

What intrigues me most, is the haphazard way in which the new 'Core Separation Technology' is installed in the new range (...or not, as the case may be!)

The UK Dyson site is quite dreadful with the lack of information: ARGOS catalogue states DC22 does have Core Separation; Dyson site has no info.

dusty wrote:

The dyson "Never clogs. Never loses suction" mantra is coming back to haunt.  Takes more than a nifty change in wording and moving on.   Doesn't it?

I posted about my parking lot experience with a female COSTCO customer who was returning a DC14 Exclusive [$469 last I checked] that lost suction after one year.  I asked her if she cleaned the filter?  She looked at me belligerently and said:  "I was told this vacuum never needed maintenance.  That's why I paid $500 for it. "  Not a happy camper.  I bet she got her money back after one year of use.  I wonder if that was a friend or family member who gave her that advice?  Or a dyson rep?  Or a COSTCO sales associate?  Or all of them combined? So much for hearsay.  I mean word of mouth, excuse me.  Best form of advertising. I like to add the caveat:  WHEN AND IF IT"S TRUE.

PS: She had the dyson instruction manual with her.  It didn't look as though it was read.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
And this is why it's a good idea to buy for a qualified vacuum dealer who would (hopefully) explain the ins and outs of how any machine works and what is required to keep it going.  Can't keep count of how many people bring in their Hoovers, Eureka, Bissells and such and tell me what crap they are.  Have they changed the belt?  No.  Filters? No.  The response when you tell them they have to?  Gee, they didn't tell me that where I bought it.  At least they got a good deal on chicken and tires when they purchased it.

I will answer a few queries people have mentioned about the new models from Dyson from what I have seen in the UK:

1. The core serparation technology is only on the DC22/23 canisters as stated in the UK brochure pack which I have been sent.  The brochure states DC22 for smaller homes and DC23 for larger homes.

2. The root cyclone technology is only in the DC24/25 uprights.  Looking at the machines using root 6 technology (like the DC18 Slim and smaller version in the DC16 hand held)

3. In the brochure one of the DC23 canister models has a 'new' lower/slimmer contact head nozzle for going under low furniture.

The brochure packs do not mention filter cleaning.  What I've have seen so far with the DC24/25 in the shops in the UK (awaiting for the DC22/23 to be on display) the filter washing states on machines, the DC24 every month for both and the DC25 every 3 months for both.  I thought this was strange and a step back.  Why?  Well at least the bin set up on the bigger DC25 is the same as the DC18 Slim and that is every 6 months (pre motor only) and the DC24 bin which will be bigger than the DC16 hand held which the DC16 is every 3-6 months!!   The DC24 should be the same, surely!? The cyclones on the DC24 are smaller slightly than the DC25.  I don't understand why this is so with these 2 models, to me it's a step back!  I can understand why they may be getting the customer to wash the post motor filter (used to changed these on the DC01 every 3 months) unlike other models, and with the DC24/25 having 2 HEPA filters pre and post.  

Not sure on the DC22/23 filter cleaning until the modesl are on display!  I believe DC22 that was launched in Japan with it's core technology the filter cleaning (which I believe someone mentioned on here) is every 7 years!  Correct me if I'm wrong. 

Looking at the brochure pack on the DC24/25 looks like the gear system on the brush bar has been dropped in place of a belt on these 2 models.   The belt is at one end not in the middle or slighlty offsite.  From What I can see you have no access to the belt but you can remove the brush bar from one end only (similar to the DC15/18/21).  The bin release from the machine on the DC24 acts as the release to empty the bin as well.

DC18

dusty wrote:

You are probably not an advocate of "blindly" accepting and following advice from friends and family for purchases of $500 plus.  Instead, going to the experts and industry professionals.  Like for vacuums, especially dyson costing $500 plus.  Word of mouth among consumers doesn't always hold true.  You would agree from the customers you service. 

In hard economic times [like now] buying chickens and tires comes before vacuums for most US consumers.  You have to eat and drive your car to work if you want a roof over your head with rugs and furniture to vacuum.  I read that home foreclosures in the US exceeded housing sales for the month of January 2008.  The first time since the great depression in the 1920's and 1930's.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Wishful thinking, again.  If the Hoover Tempo or Elite Rewind had the word-of-mouth popularity of the Dyson (and the Dyson didn't) you would state otherwise.

Motorhead wrote:

Spoken like a die hard dyson worshipper who doesn't think but wishes his friends and family will do it for him.

Carmine D.

Only the DC22's equipped with the brushless motor have the pre filters that require cleaning every seven years. The DC22's equipped with standard brushed motors still rely on the 6-month cleaning intervals for the pre-filter.

As for the DC25, I am very disappointed to say the least, especially with the filtration system it was designed with. If you ask me, they should have directly carried the Level 3 Root Cyclone/collection canister from the DC17 (still the real flagship IMO) directly over to the DC25. But what do they do instead? They carried over an antiquated filtration system with a collection capacity that is less than half of previous Dyson models. The DC25 All Floors is going to be the most expensive base model upright in the range, so logically, it should be better in every way than it's lower numerically labeled stablemates. But no, it uses the same old cyclone tech, costs more, and holds less debris than it's full sized brethren. However, it does weigh only 16 pounds, and is easy to maneuver on a ball pivot...oh wait, the DC18 also weights 16 pounds and rolls on a ball pivot, can be had for around $420-$450, and technically holds more debris than the DC25, and only requires pre-filter maintenance every 6 months, not 3 like with the DC25.

I was hoping for a DC15 successor that would really showcase the best Dyson has to offer, but in this case, the DC25 is nothing more than a bloated DC18. For a company that prides itself with engineering and R&D, the DC25 is certainly several steps backwards. On the other hand, the new DC22 and DC23 canisters look to be big improvements over previous models, but there is no word on those being sold in the US...yet.

And while I'm airing by grievances, I would like to say that Dyson should drop the continuously building numerical naming scheme, and just develop several classes of products. I have in my mind what BMW does with their automobiles: 1/3/5/6/7 Series for their sedans and coupes, X3/X5/X6 for their SUV's, and Z4/Z8 for their coupe convertible roadsters. I would rather see an independent Ball range like B3 (DC24) B5 (DC18) and B7 (a proper DC25 designed the way I would prefer: DDM, Level 3, exchangeable brushrolls for different carpets). Then you would have your regular uprights: D3 (DC14), and D5 (DC17). Canister would be labeled as C3 (DC21), C5 (DC22), and C7 (DC23). With this line up, you will not see models disappear through discontinuation, only redesigned or revamped under a production cycle of, let's say, 1.5 to 2 years. Through this, you can also introduce new features and technology through newer models that would trickle down to lesser models once they are redesigned for their next generation product cycle.

Also, having established designations like D3 or C7 would let consumers see what models are in which end of the low to high end spectrum, and what product class they belong in. Some shoppers may go to best buy and think that a DC18 would be a better vacuum than the DC17 at deep cleaning, just because the numerical designation of the Slim model is one higher than the Absolute (which we all know is not true). Or maybe someone would think that the DC25 may be better machine than the DC17 because the number is higher; in this case, it doesn't make sense to compare a lighter weight, less aggressive Ball model to a more traditional model that deep cleans better and has a superior filtration system. That's why I think Dyson should establish fixed nameplates, and segregate different products in different classes to avoid confusion.

Dyson, like we were told by Tom Gasko and his drivel, was looking for the DC15 Ball to be his signature vacuum.  "The greater dyson," I believe Gasko called it.  It flopped.  It is a dud.

Dyson is still trying, as this subject name says, to bring his ball back. 

A DC18 can be bought now from Linens-n-Things for less than $400 WITH a $50 Gift Card.  Wait awhile and it will $100.  DC18, made and sold in 2007, ranked below the DC07 [almost 6 years old] but above the DC15 [3 years old]. 

Dyson has been slipping downward since 2004, probably its best year due to DC07 sales.  2005/6 was better because of higher dyson product prices and new market opportunities, like Canada.  But the last 2 factors are one time spikes. 

Dyson fans and followers are perplexed by the dyson differences among its products.  What do you think "average consumers" think?  I forgot.  They don't think.  They accept and follow the advice of their friends and family when they make purchases.  Word of mouth. 

Carmine D.

I have to say on inspecting the DC25 up close the bin could have been taller and wider in diameter.  But would this of added to overall weight!?  I would also say the DC15, DC18 and the new DC25 probably give the same performance.  The only advantage is the DC25 is lighter than the DC15 and less bulky.  Although the DC25 is cheaper than the DC15 was but the same price as when the DC18 was launched - £279.99. 

One thing to note is both the DC24 and DC25 have smaller cleaning nozzles than the standard models.  You could say the DC25 is a enlarged DC18, but the DC25 does move more smoothly than the DC18 due to the bigger ball.  There is no metal soleplate on these new models like the DC15 had, plus the 2 pivot point flexing nozzle head on the DC15 is not present on them either. 

If someone had to choose between the DC18 or DC25 apart from size to me underneath they are the same.  I think I would go for the DC18 due to it slim profile, but saying that the body of the cleaner feels heavier due to the upright mounted motor unlike the DC25 which is in the ball which is on the floor!

DC18