Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

http://gizmodo.com/345918/dyson-dc24-vac-sir-james-brings-his-ball-back

Two models, one small, one large :-

DC24
http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/product.asp?product=DC24-ALLFLOORS

DC25
http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/product.asp?product=DC25-ALLFLOORS

Dyson Ltd
17 January 2008
 
 
 Concentrated Technology
 
 The next generation of Dyson vacuum cleaners are mini yet mighty
 
 
The engineering challenge:
Dyson engineers have developed a new range of compact
cleaners, Dyson Baby and Dyson Ball, with the all-round performance of full-size
Dyson machines. Ideal for the UK's shrinking homes with limited space and
storage:
 
The UK has more, smaller households than ever before. A combination of an
increase in population, a decrease in the number of people per household (more
people choosing to live alone), an aging population and more people moving to
the UK all add to the squeeze.
 
 •The UK has the smallest houses per square metre than the rest of Europe.
 •Europe build houses of an average 100 sq m
 •The UK squeeze houses into just 76 sq m
 •Britain's smallest house is in Conwy, Wales. The one up - one down is
 just 3.05m by 1.8m
 •The smallest flat went on sale for £170,000, an 11ft by 7ft space in
 Chelsea, London
 •Since 1980, UK house prices have increased by 676%
 
 
Compact and lightweight:
 
DC24 Dyson Ball is a small, slim, lightweight upright that sits on a ball.
 
Conventional cleaners with fixed wheels can only move in straight lines; they're
not designed to steer. But the new Dyson DC24 sits on a ball and turns with
ease.
 
Dyson engineers have replaced wheels with a ball to give DC24 greater
manoeuvrability. The motor sits inside the ball, making it lighter in hand and
even easier to steer. With the turn of the wrist DC24 responds by swivelling its
head to nip around obstacles like furniture, children and pets around the home.
 
DC24 compresses by one-third of its height when it's not in use so it's easy to
store. Its motorised brush-bar captures even ground-in dirt and pet hair, so it
has the all-round cleaning performance of a full-size Dyson.
 
 
DC22 Dyson Baby is a compact cylinder, one-third smaller than other Dyson
cylinders.
 
Its telescopic wand packs down and its hose wraps neatly around its body for
tidy storage.
 
Baby uses the most advanced Dyson cyclone technology to capture more microscopic
dust than any other cyclone.
 
Like all Dyson machines, Dyson Baby doesn't rely on bags or filters to capture
all the dust. Instead patented Root CycloneTM technology spins dirt from the
airflow, so it doesn't lose suction.
 
Dyson engineers have taken this technology one stage further and developed core
separator technology to capture even more microscopic dirt. Dirt now goes
through three stages of separation:
 
 1. Firstly, dirt is drawn into a powerful outer cyclone. Centrifugal forces
 fling larger debris such as, pet hair and dust particles into the clear bin
 at 500Gs (the maximum G-Force the human body can take is 8Gs).
 2. A further cyclonic stage, the core separator, then removes dust particles as
 small as 0.5 microns from the airflow; particles so small you could fit 200
 of them on this full stop.
 3. Finally, a cluster of smaller, even faster cyclones generate centrifugal
 forces of up to 150,000G - extracting particles as small as mould and
 bacteria.
 
Hygienic and allergy friendly: Both machines have a trigger bin-emptying system.
This means with the press of a button, all the dust and dirt can be emptied
directly into the bin.
 
All Dyson machines are approved by the British Allergy Foundation. The air
emitted from a Dyson vacuum cleaner has up to 150 times less bacteria, mould and
allergens than the room's ambient air. Clean and allergy friendly.
 
Robust: They may be compact, but they are tough. Dyson engineers have put these
vacuum cleaners through their paces to make sure they are up to the most
rigorous cleaning challenge. Not only are they made from the toughest materials
(the bin is made from the same material as riot shields) - they have been
dropped down stairs and rolled over 1,000 miles (1,600km) - that's as far as
London to Helsinki as the crow flies.
 
No bags, no extra costs: Unlike bagged vacuums which keep costing, Dyson
machines have no bags - and come with lifetime washable filters - so no extra
running costs.
 
 
 ends
 
 
For further information please contact the Dyson Press Office
laura.brock@dyson.com 020 7833 8244
 
 
 
Notes to editors:
 
Instore from 1 March 2008
 
Stockist details can be found at www.dyson.co.uk or call 0800 279 5127

Hi M00seUK

A bit of a surprise from Dyson!  I didn't expect the ball to be used in 2 vacs in one go, 3 launches in one go.  I see they don't class the DC18 in with the rest of the 'Ball' family!  DC24 looks like a replacement for the DC18 slim!  Again no mention of the DDM in both of the DC24 or DC25 and no use of the Core Cyclone Technology!  HEPA standard on the DC24!  The DC24 do not mention motor watts but has the smae airwatts as the DC25 both 220 AW.   Looks like the post motor filter is in the ball it's self this time!

DC18

Wow, I never saw this coming.  I had hoped they would redo the Ball design sometime, but I didn't think it would be this soon!  The Gizmodo site shows the price in dollars so I assume they will also be brought here.  Wish they had incorporated Level 3 technology and the DDM into these models, though, but hey, you can't have everything at once.

What I see both of them DO have is the much-needed center suction channel in the nozzle...take that, DC15 haters!

Again, I just love the fact that these new models are even better.  One of these days (and I predict in the near future), all of these improvements will come back to bite those dead-set against Dyson in the rear end, in a very BIG way.  They will have nothing to go against anymore; it will be funny about 10 years from now when we will still see the same old drivel about the DC07/14's poor performance, or how the DC15 can't hold a piece of paper to the nozzle ;-)

DC18 wrote:

Hi DC18,
It's a little frustrating not to be able to see the finer details! You could be right re: post motor filter. It appears that they've further refined the construction of 'The Ball' arrangement, which will hopefully mean that they can maintain a lower price point. Good to see the smaller / lighter version too.

Hi M00seUK

It is frustrating but there is some detail on the web. Click on explore features on the DC24 or DC25 and it gives you a inside exploded shot of the new ball setup on these models!

I have to say the price points on them are very good with the DC24 being cheaper than the DC18 and the DC25 the same price!

Seems there is no offical launch on these!?

DC18

We now have the two...

Acerone wrote:
I saw your message and checked the Dyson website now, glad to see they updated their pages.  Now the question is, when will we ever see the DDM?  If not, I wonder if a DC12 or 22 can be imported here from Japan?  Even though Japan has different voltage (IIRC even less than the US, 100 volts or something like that), I was told it's just a matter of switching the DDM's control board out with one that *will* work.  But then that also adds the question on where and how to get a hold of one, and since DDM technology isn't currently in the US...

Both the DC24 and 25 look very tempting, and they're priced less than the DC15 which surprised me.  Assuming that both are improvements over the DC15 (which I hope they are), I wonder if prospective customers will know that they are better?

Hello,

I took some screen captures of the DC24 being demonstrated on Gizmodo.com and one enlarged, "exploded view" of the ball/housing.  The image hosting site I used removed some quality of the photos and so there not as good as I hoped.  View here.      DIB

  < It seems easy for Dyson to get good press.  More.

Doh! 'Beat me, I was just about to post the same image! It's the first that gives you an idea of it's size.
It's interesting to see the way PR works in this web world. For their video, Gizmodo much have had a hands-on with the machine at least a few days before the launch embargo.

I don't know about others but I'm guessing that the test team at Consumer Reports can't wait to get the DC24 and 25 in its sights.  It should be very interesting. 

CR has taken dyson head on for producing high priced vacuum products with more sizzle than substance.  The mommie and baby ball's precursors [the Ball DC15 and Slim DC18] are not among CR's favorites.  Quite the contrary.  The DC15 gets a poor rating for pet hair pick up and is called a waste of consumers' $500 by CR.  The DC18 Slim is heckled by CR in favor of the much better time tested $60 HOOVER Tempo.  Jaydee's new generation of mommie and baby ball vacuums are destined to be scrutinized closely by CR for function and performance.    Count on it.  Quite possibly as a result of the CR reviews the mommie and baby ball uprights could well be the laughing stock of the industry in the USA.  And win a reputation for jaydee as a brilliant inventor who can't tie his own shoes.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

My,My,My, How Desperate Sir Jimmy and the Boy wonders in r&d have become,bringing back the ball [thats already a failure],and trying to fool the consumer into thinking it's something new.I Quess they had to find a place to unload all the wheels left over from the ballbarrow.They look like they need to do research in other markets,they should look into desinger underwear,and get out of the vacuum market,and stop embarrising themselves.

MOLE

Motorhead wrote:
I don't know about others but I'm guessing that the test team at Consumer Reports can't wait to get the DC24 and 25 in its sights.  It should be very interesting. 

CR has taken dyson head on for producing high priced vacuum products with more sizzle than substance.  The mommie and baby ball's precursors [the Ball DC15 and Slim DC18] are not among CR's favorites.  Quite the contrary.  The DC15 gets a poor rating for pet hair pick up and is called a waste of consumers' $500 by CR.  The DC18 Slim is heckled by CR in favor of the much better time tested $60 HOOVER Tempo.  Jaydee's new generation of mommie and baby ball vacuums are destined to be scrutinized closely by CR for function and performance.    Count on it.  Quite possibly as a result of the CR reviews the mommie and baby ball uprights could well be the laughing stock of the industry in the USA.  And win a reputation for jaydee as a brilliant inventor who can't tie his own shoes.

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

When will the boneheads at DYSOON realize that the upright market is loosing ground and at a very fast pace,They will never make it in the canister market,they dont know how to.They better start chasing the real low end market if they still want to be a player.The dc21,22,23, will be the BUTT of many industry jokes.

TIme AND THE CONSUMER WILL REALLY TELL THEM HOW INNOVATIVE THEY ARE.

Can I have the dyson propaganda money now

MOLE

  <  Story here.

Above and below are snaps from a Dyson.co.uk flash movie.  It is much easier to view stills versus a looping movie. Below, "exploded view" can be seen in a  JUMBO size.        DIB

CarmineD wrote:
Hi Carmine,

It will be interesting what CR says.  I do agree with what you said about the ratings, etc., *not* because CR is a reliable source, but because there will undoubtedly be buyers out there that take CR's ratings to be the gospel.  That right there will be the main influence, just because they don't know any better.  Sure, the DC15 was certainly not the best, but it was also far from the worst.  Why CR didn't like the DC18 is beyond me; once again part of their inconsistent ratings.  Aside from the small bin capacity, I really don't see anything wrong with it.  In one issue the DC18 was covered in their "claim check" up front and they bashed it there as well.  Again, I believe CR doesn't like it simply because it's a Dyson.  And a Dyson will never occupy their top-rated position for that reason, no matter how good it is.  That's just how they are. 

With the Tempo, "time-tested" could very well be synonymous with "outdated".  The Hoover Windtunnel/Tempo is like the Chevrolet Venture/Uplander of vacuums, for lack of a better comparison other than the fact that they are from the same year.  Sure, with a few cosmetic improvements they both can look reasonably modern (and even that's stretching it), but underneath it's the same old outdated design from 1996 that really wasn't that great in the first place.  Besides, I'm glad to report that we're out of the phase where the majority of vacuums out there are still made of grainy-textured black plastic like the 90's and the early part of this decade.  The only difference, obviously, is that CR likes the Tempo and hates the Uplander ;-)

-MH

Hi DIB

Thanks for posting the pictures and links.   The 'freeze frames' from the Gizmodo web site are good.  The pictures with James Dyson gives a better idea of size of these machines, the DC25 can not be that much bigger!  Looking at the brush bar on the DC24 and DC25 it looks like one piece which comes out one end unlike the DC15 and DC18 which had 2 pieces.  Post motor filter in the ball itself!  The ball looks bigger in the pictures to the original DC15!  These 2 new Ball Machines have been designed to be more sleek on the outside which gives the nozzle better clearance...not as slim as the DC18 at the base!  The DC24 and DC25 (and DC22) like impressive!

DC18

Motorhead wrote:

Not at all.  Synonymous with "classic."  Performance and price never go out of date.  It gets better with age.  Especially when the "latest and greatest" supposed innvovative competitors can't match up in price and/or performance. 

I don't agree that Consumer Reports is prejudiced against dyson by name and/or products.  I believe more accurately that CR is prejudiced against bagless machines and high priced-low to mediocre performing vacuums.  I empathize with CR and I fully understand its perspective and frame of reference. 

I believe that CR, especially over the last several decades, focuses on brand name vacuums sold by big box retail stores.  Sure Kirby, RICCAR, ORECK, Miele, SEBO, Filter Queen and Rainbow get reviewed continually.  Because of historical reasons and to round out the venue.  But, by and large CR caters to the likes and dislikes of consumers who shop at the big box retailers for vacuums.  This is dyson's sales venue of choice.  The ratings and rankings of vacuums are geared toward their interests and concerns.  Not vacuum collectors, vacuum enthusiasts, vacuum historians, and vacuum cleaner industry experts and professionals.  Hence, once again I say that this is the reason I never subscribe to CR except to buy an occasional monthly edition when the need arises. 

Carmine D.

This link below towards the end says the DC24 Ball does not come with a manual!! (also includes a link to an interview with Sir James Dyson)

http://www.dwell.com/daily/blog/13864047.html

DC18

DC18,

I'm glad you liked my info.  I indeed enjoyed reading and listening to the interview you posted, especially when James thru his vacuum to prove it was built tuff.  I was good to hear how respectful the interviewer was to James.  I read a press relase today that said Dyson has sold 24 million vacuums to date.        DIB

DIB

Just a few vacuums sold then!! I'm sure with these 3 new models a few more will be sold.  The DC24, DC25 and DC22 will do well in the UK.  Price point sare very good as well, the DC24 and DC25 not being anywhere near the original DC15 Ball.  Plus they are around the usual price points which is good!   Even though they are smaller and slim they are still built the same quality or course as the bigger models!  Which James Dyson proved to the interviewer! 

I'm interested to see all 3 models but in particular the DC24 and DC25 with especially the new nozzle on them!  From the first pictures the brush density on the brush bar looks the same as the DC15/DC18!  That aside the whole nozzle setup is completely new so will be interesting to see!

DC18

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Since dyson vacuums have been sold worldwide since 1984, that amounts to about 1 Million vacuums a year.  The annual number of new vacuums sold in the USA is about 20 Million, according to Consumer Reports.  And this number has been fairly consistent for the last 5 years counting.

To put the numbers in another perspective, Dirt Devil which has been selling its plastic body "bagged" (paper optional) handcleaners for about the same period of time, has sold over 25 million to date, according to Dirt Devil.  Just handcleaners.   In 2006, Dirt Devil was the leading seller of new vacuums in the USA for the period January 1-June 30, 2006, according to NPD.   NOT including its handcleaners.  Just vacuums, uprights and/or canisters.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Yay, was good to listen to an interview for once - thanks for the link. James was saying that they're nearly there on their robot cleaner (although that's been the company line for quite some time!). Also in the news this week was the announcement of a break-through in Li-ion technologies :-

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/17/586070.aspx

Regardless of the manufacturer, if they truly can improve batteries by this level, it will make high performance, affordable robot cleaners a reality.

Yeah the Robot vacuum was mention.  From what James Dyson said he wants to do is engineer a robotic vacuum that gives the same cleaning performance as his full size vacuums.  This alone will need a lot of battery power.  Interesting link - thanks M00seUK, on new battery technology.  Hope the Dyson Robotic vacuum will emerge sometime soon!

DC18

DC18 wrote:

'Mentioned in this forum before... Dyson (and others) have patents on robot cleaners that can handle mains-powered cables in the course of their 'run'. Not as fun or as practical as using a battery, but would allow for a deep clean at a low cost.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DC18,

I'm glad you liked my info.  I indeed enjoyed reading and listening to the interview you posted, especially when James thru his vacuum to prove it was built tuff.  I was good to hear how respectful the interviewer was to James.  I read a press relase today that said Dyson has sold 24 million vacuums to date.        DIB

CarmineD wrote:

You’re unimpressed with James’ numbers no matter how it’s presented.  I am.        DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

It's simple to understand: It takes more to impress me.  

If the press release [which you didn't share] said dyson sold 24 million new vacuums in the UK alone in 23 years, I would not be impressed.   Why?  The latter, if it were true and we know it is not, would even be an unimpressive number of new vacuum sales in the UK, considering the UK is dyson's country of origin.  Has dyson impressed buyers in the UK with any of his products' sales?  Vacuums? Washers?  Airblades?  I don't think so.  Quite the contrary.  Sales in his own country of his products are unimpressive.  IMHO.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I have to disagree there.  The Hoover 60-series is classic...it's old enough to be classic.  Even the Convertible series could be considered classic.  The Windtunnel, however, is 12 years old and is outdated (I'd say just plain tired), CR ratings notwithstanding.  TTI will eventually see that it's not selling like it should and slowly drop the design, one by one.  It will be interesting to see what particular model will go first, it's only a matter of time.  No one wants grainy plastic vacuums when they can get something sleek and MODERN, the Uplander comparison bodes well.  Like I said, I never thought it was that great, when Eureka was starting to dabble in bagless and Fantom had been on the scene for a few years Hoover simply re-introduced a clean-air upright.  The first thing I thought when it came out was "about time Hoover did that!"  I'll give them this, they did get the clean-air design right that time.  Took them long enough, though, but at least the WT's handle doesn't wobble and the bags don't look upside down when they're installed.  There are just better machines out there both in construction and performance, even Hoover's OWN offerings!  They have the "sleek look" going on their new models and those seem to have done well.  I've used the Mach series bagless before.  Not an exact copy of the cyclonic design, so there are a few shortcomings, but I didn't think they were bad cleaners overall.  They also felt sturdy with their telescopic metal handle; I know for a fact the WindTunnel doesn't feel like a sturdy machine.  Again, something about that grainy plastic!

I never said CR was prejudiced against Dyson, I know they don't care for bagless in general...that was obvious to me years ago when they tested the Fantom and it still holds true.  They hated bagless then, they hate it now (although their tolerance has improved somewhat over the years).  However, I find it quite odd when the DC17 is #10, and both Kenmore and Hoover FILTERED bagless cleaners are in the top 5.  Something isn't right there.  There's just no possible way those could maintain performance long enough to get those scores!  Especially with all of the fine test dirt, etc.

-MH

The HOOVER WT, whether you like the looks or not, is the premier rug cleaning and grooming upright vacuum on the market FOR ALL TIME [IMHO].  It is the gold standard of carpet cleaning.  Its retail cost is $150 (bagged).  Supreme model. 

For uprights and rug cleaning, the HOOVER Tempo (bagged) for $60 outperforms ALL upright dysons on the market today including the DC17 which sells for $549.  The TEMPO weighs 16 pounds and the DC17 weighs 21.

When a $60 upright vacuum, albeit with a 10 year old form and function, consistently is better rated for rug cleaning than the latest and greatest innovative vacuums selling for 10 times as much, IT IS A classic vacuum.  Not because of age.  Because of the performance and price. 

Carmine D.

Hi,

My feeling re CR and bagless vacuums is that the issue of "tidy" emptying is still solved.  Mind you, this can be no different than what was going on with vacuums with permanent bags way back in the day that led to the welcoming of disposable dust bags.  CR was and reamined highly critical of disposable dust bags with wide mouths or that for whatever reason, by way of manner of removal, etc., promoted notable exposure to dust.  MH, I know your going to tell me that that problem is minimized by frequent emptying, and I thoroughly agree, but again I say the average consumer is out to merely buy another tool to facilitate care of the home.  In light of that, the issue is and has always been -- what's simple, what's easy.  There are those that may find stopping to empty their cleaner several times during cleaning day or having to fuss around with plastic bags to dump full containers into a bit bothersome.

Where I personally might not be overly bothered by the keeping of a Rainbow or even the simpler washing of filters now and then there are lots of people who can't be bothered with it.  The realities of maintenance are usually skirted when a sale is in the process and a lot of buyers of bagless machines are left to think that it will be business as usual the same way it was the bagged vacuums they'd been familiar with.

I don't think CR is particularly biased re bagless just, in this at least, aware of the consumer's desire for not only what's affordable but also easy.

My greatest fear for Hoover is that to TTI it may just be a name to sell.  When the name is finally run down, they will either find some alleged new innovation with a new name or buy up another old name and ride on it ontil they run it into the ground as well.  The Hoover we knew was an organization that appeared to bear a semblance of pride in the product it put forth and sales came.  It took risks on ideas. The market today is not interested in risk but in making money which means you sell anything you've got any way you can sell it.  Not a bright picture for consumers.

Best,

Venson

Venson wrote:
Hi Venson,

I agree.  While frequent emptying doesn't eliminate the problem completely (especially on fine dust pickup), it does help quite a bit I've found.  The way I see it is one small step at a time.  It will be solved eventually, making the dustcloud a thing of the past.  Look how far we've come already, first the cloth shakeout bag, then the disposable bags, now the bin. 

Regarding Hoover, I don't think TTI is going to do that to the brand, at least that wasn't the initial impression I got.  They seem to have picked up where Hoover left off, continuing existing machines and using a proprietary design on the new models...no "rebadged Dirt Devils" as we had all feared.  I predict in the very near future, TTI/Hoover will put much of their effort into the dual-cyclonic Mach series design in order to compete with Dyson and others that use a true cyclonic design, i.e. Bissell and LG/Kenmore.  But that's just a wild guess. 

Hi DIB,

Great pictures and information you provided about these as always, especially the inner workings of the Ball up close.  And it's still mind-boggling seeing the compact size of the DC22!  The sales figures are impressive as well, any way you look at it.  We know that James Dyson has been designing vacuums since 1983 (24 years right there to the end of '07).  That's all well and good and worth mentioning in the press release, but we can't really get a good yearly production average out of that because I'm willing to bet he did not sell very many machines in the early years.  So saying 1 million machines per year would be just a *bit* inaccurate.  The yearly sales figures are likely very staggered in reality.  Besides, I know Dyson has been more successful than that, especially in recent years ;-)

Just out of curiosity, how long have machines produced under the Dyson brandname existed in the UK?  I want to say 1990 but I'm probably wrong.

-MH

Motorhead wrote:

The dyson G-force sold door to door starting in 1983.  From 1982-84 dyson tried to sell the design to European firms.  No luck.  He sold the rights to an American firm in 1984.  The buyer pulled out.  Dyson took it to Japan and it was successful.  Dyson sued his former American licensee for patent infringement over a machine brought out after the breakup.  It was settled and with the royalties dyson built the 1992 Malmesbury plant.  Dyson's dual cyclone in both upright and canister was launched in the UK in 1993.  You can say that the lawsuit proceeds financed dyson's vacuum launch.

The dyson sales have not been consistently one million a year.  But for lack of the sales data and statistics, which jaydee holds close to his vest, an average can only be estimated by doing the simple math.  Units divided by years.  You can extrapolate the sales number further to the countries where the products are sold.  This further reduces market share by units in any one geographic location.  If I had to venture a guess, I'd say Japan would be dyson's best vacuum sales market [not the UK as one may think]. Quite the contrary only one third of the Brits buy dysons every year.  So the majority of Brits buy and use another brand vacuum not dyson.

Carmine D.

  <  New York Times.

There was a bagless cleaner sold via the "Innovations" Catalogue in 1988/89 (small technology catalogue, normally enclosed with the weekend papers).

I think this machine had the dry-powder cleaning function. It was rather expensive, about double that of the Hoovers and Electroluxes at the time.

The trouble is, I cannot remember if it was sold as  "Dyson" or if it was one of those "Iona" imported cleaners. (I believe some were imported, am I correct?)

Baby dyson ball won't get under furniture, beds, sofa, and cushion chairs.  Not with that huge monstrosity of a ball wheel.  Ditch the ball wheel, make the dirt bin larger, put some rear wheels on the power head, drop the price by half, and it will sell a million units in the first year in the USA.

Carmine D.

Trilobite wrote:
I remember those.  Here it was sold as the NovaDry, and then later the Capture Drytech machine.  One of the things I found interesting about these was that the instructions said that it was not to be used as a regular vacuum cleaner.  This was because the suction inlet/ducting was a small diameter...it could handle the dry powder (and the debris within) but not larger dirt.  I found this out later.

-MH

CarmineD wrote:
Hi DIB,

Again, great information.  This picture clearly shows the small size of the machine; I couldn't really tell from watching the Gizmodo video or looking at the website.  Very neat, the more I see it the more I want one.  If it had the DDM I'd spring for one in a split-second. 

Hi Carmine,

The reason for the large ball wheel is probably because that the motor is contained within (and the motor's large size).  The reason the Slim has a smaller ball, I believe, is that the motor is mounted differently.  One way they *could* possibly make the ball smaller on the DC24 is to put a DDM in it.  I understand the DDM is smaller and since it turns at such a high speed, it does not need to have a large fan.  Since it's a small machine it would be the perfect candidate for the DDM.  Then again, that's just my wishful thinking for a DDM-equipped US machine taking over ;-)

-MH

So does the Dyson DC25 use Core Seperation?  If not, why?  And furthermore, what's with the design of the motorhead; it looks like it has a dual brushroll set-up going on.  Also, isn't the DC24 a bit of a redundancy, especially next to the DC18?  Overall, not bad for a heavily redesigned DC15, however, I would also like to see the DC17 brushroll, Level 3/Core Seperation, and possibly the DDM on a Dyson Ball model one of these days.  But for now, I will be sticking with my DC18.

Update:  I just read on a retailers site that the DC25 only weight 12 pounds; very impressive.  It is listed as a pre-order item only for $499, and they say it will ship in mid-March....Basically, the DC18 has nothing that stands out.

Motorhead wrote:

Probably so.  For a lightweight supposedly quick and easy daily user, the huge monster mounted ball wheel defeats the baby dyson ball purpose.  It limits the vacuum's usage rather than increasing it which is the purpose of the ball: More manueverability.  Not under the bed, furniture and low cushionn chairs.  User still has to move the furniture out of the way to clean underneath.  I'd use the $35 HOOVER Cordless Slider and/or Oreck Classic. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I really don't think people vacuum blindly under furniture/beds blindly; there is always rubbish like coins, socks, small toys, or other large debris than can cause serious damage to your machine.  I would seriously think that people who operate $300-$600 vacuum cleaners would be more mindful of that than someone who could care less about maintaining a working vacuum cleaner and regularly cycle through $50 bargain vacs.  I always move my furniture/beds before vacuuming the carpet under them, or get down and inspect the floor underneath with the cleaning wand in hand to clean under those hard to reach areas.  As long as the Dyson Ball vacs have that low profile motorhead that can roll under extruded kitchen/bathroom cabinets, I could care less if I can't blindly ram it under a couch or a bed, because IMO, that's asking for trouble.

iMacDaddy wrote:

Different strokes for different folks.

I have a English yellow lab who sheds year round.  And a dear Wife who has sinus and allergy issues year round.  Our bedrooms are carpetted.  The lab's hair gets under the bed and bedroom furniture daily.  I wouldn't want to move the bed and bedroom furniture weekly to vacuum up the hair and dust.  Like most, there are books, TV and radios, clocks, clothes, portraits and jewelry weighing down the pieces.  Hair and dust [did I mention I live in the desert] always gather in the nooks and crannies up close to the base board and wall near the bed and furniture and around the legs.  I wouldn't want to move the bed and furniture out weekly to use a $500-$600 upright vacuum to clean underneath.  I don't have the time.  Let alone my dear Wife who spends most her time with our 2 grand daughters [and another on the way].

Instead, I use the $35 HOOVER Slider [weighs 2-3 pounds with a revolving brush roll and no cord] /$150 Oreck [weighs 8 pounds] AT LEAST once a week to get the dog hair and dust that inevitably accumulates under the beds and furniture.  And throughout the year, usually seasonally, I'll move the matress and bed and bedroom furniture to do more thorough cleaning.  In part to make sure there are no big and little items under there so I can continue to do my weekly vacuuming in these out of sight places. 

My dear Wife uses the Slider and Oreck for the same reasons.  And she loathes vacuuming with a passion.  If she had to move the furniture and bed to vacuum under with the $400 dyson DC07 pink, she wouldn't.  She can't.  She uses the Slider to vacuum the lab hair on the beds' comforters [our lab has the run of the house and likes to sleep alot on the beds.  She's old like me].  CAn't do that with the baby dyson ball.  Slider works very well.   My dear Wife loves me in part for these vacuums.  Makes her life much easier.  And mine too.  Happy Wife, happy life.

I guess that's why they call it a "Slider."  And not a slammer, ball, and/or rammer.  And they call the Oreck: Simply Amazing!

Carmine D.

Carmine,

Is it my imagination or has low clearance height in regard to upright vacuums become a none-issue for selling them? 

Venson

Hi Guy's

I have a question,what is the benefit to the customer,if the machine uses the digital motor,do you really think the customer cares?The reason i say this is because MIELE touts it's vortec motor,it's a single fan carbons mounted on the top instead of the bottom with the conical fan,does the consumer really care?.The d.d.m has to be controlled by a computor like rexairs . I would not even venture to quess what the computor cost is and they have been known to fail,The regular e series motor replacement is over 425.00.

God knows how much a motor and computor board change would cost.But i would think a 20.00 carbon brush replacement is a lot more friendly to the customer.

This industry is overteching itself...........It's to the point of insanity.............

MOLE

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

Yes, to a degree.  In part, due to on-board tools on uprights which are a relatively recent development for the upright vacuum industry.  HOOVER Dial started in the early 60's.  But by and large other makers were later.  The 80's.  And its spawned a new venue of daily users: The lites, nanos, etc.  The Regina Electrikbroom was very popular for decades in large part because users found them quick and easy to use in the hard to get out-of-sight places. Oreck and RICCAR-Simplicity catered to these customers cleaning needs for years and now too the lightweights both bagged and bagless. 

Carmine D.

mole wrote:

Mole:

I agree with you.  Hi-tech motors are transparent to end users.  They can care less.  What's important to them is less weight, good performace, easy to use and store, and now most especially PRICE. 

Carmine D. 

Hi Mole,

If digital motor technology could produce beneficial effects by way of increased power, less unit weight, increased dust capacity or lower and simplify repair matters (meaning consumer executable motor changes) I'd say yes the public would be very interested.  Are we talking the same Dyson motor that is also said to be of lesser size?  Anyway . . .

The idea of a "motor module" was pushed some time in the last century by Shetland Lewyt but did appear to gain much interest and Shetland Lewyt, I think, was just about dead in the water by the 1980's.  In any event the idea of an affordable motor/fan unit that could be ordered online or by phone call and then simply be dropped into your vacuum and locked in much the same as you'd pop in a circuit board or RAM chips into your computer would be great.  Too great I think.  I don't think established service suppliers would appreciate it much.

Miele's motor design is interesting and I think a good pitch point but as always, price can soon kill interest in innovation.

Venson

Venson wrote:

The Dyson Digital Motor can apparently produce a third more suction power than a conventional motor. The new motor is very small in comparison to a conventional one. The Digital motor is supposedly more robust than a standard motor; carbon brushes and armatures being, supposedly, the reason for most failures.

It could be said that Nilfisk have a drop-in motor on their GS80 series machines: motor drops in, locks into place, plug in the flex, and away we go!

As for Miele's motor, I think it is just another variation on what has gone before. Most motors that I have seen have had the fan(s), then the armature, then the carbon brushes.  The carbon brushes would get the heat in this arrangement.

Miele has the fan(s), brushes, then the armature. The carbon brushes run cooler in this arrangement.

However, the Hoover 'Powerglide' S4256 cylinder that I once owned, I'm sure had a reverse positioning of the fans to the motor: carbon brushes, armature, then the fans. The filtered air was sucked over the brushes, over the armature and expelled from the fans. This was quite a noisy cleaner.

Yes Trilobite,

The Nilfisk GS 80 still has an easily removable motor unit as well as some other new models meant for office use. That idea goes back years and years with Nilfisk but I did not bring it up because I didn't want to wear the name out all in one day.  The Shetland Lewyt I mentioned was the more commonly known here. SL came to develop two or three "modular" canister vacuums that were intended to be easily repairable by the owner.  Shetland-Lewyt was sold by SCM to a Canadian concern around 1972 per what I've gleaned from the web.

Nonetheless, a smaller than usual, high performing digital vacuum motor that could be easily removed and replaced is not a bad idea If affordable.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

I think there is another major factor at play too for the trend away from low clearance for under furniture and bed vacuuming.

In the first half of the 20th century, USA households were usually one vacuum only, due to the cost and the longevity.  Upright/tank/canister.  The one vacuum household changed in the 60's when vacuums began cheapening.  More households had an upright and a tank/canister vacuum for cleaning and the trend has continued.  Households now have a plethora of floor care appliances for all household cleaning chores.  Hence, the need for vacuum makers to solve all the users' cleaning problems in one/another vacuum whether tank-canister and/or upright is not as important anymore.

Carmine D.

Trilobite wrote:

Speaking just from the US perspective:  Dyson convinced itself that the increased air watts in the DC07 at the expense of a wimpy brush roll would excel its rug cleaning performance over all other conventional uprights on the market which used standard brush rolls.  He even convinced supposed industry experts that his was an improvement.  They believed him at first.  We saw and know the results.  Dyson has been on a campaign since the DC07 to revamp the air watts downward and improve the brush roll.  Still hasn't gotten there yet after 5 plus years IMHO.  And that of Consumer Reports.

The DDM may be stronger and last longer, TIME WILL TELL not words.  However, if the vacuum doesn't have equally good components comparable TO THE LESS EXPENSIVE COMPETITION, like a decent brush roll and rug adjustments, jaydee will have a reputation in industry for being a brilliant inventor who can't tie his own shoes.

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,I totally agree with you, Even dyson is catching on to the total package,The newer 18 series are being hailed by the dyson experts as much better cleaners than their older cousins.

Their cleaning[sweeping capabilitys are on par with a hoover convetible.......

As one of the real vacuum gurus said,[STAN].as long as the machine pulls the dirt and debris into the bag,everything else is just for hype and advertising purpose.Lets face the facts that the dyson cleaners are just overhyped,cheap molded plastic,left over fantoms.

MOLE

iMacDaddy wrote:
Hi iMacDaddy,

GREAT post, you hit the nail right on the head and I agree 100%.  Aggressive brushroll, Level 3, and the DDM...it would be as close to perfect as one can get.  The DC24 is neat, but I think for now I'll stick with my DC21 and wait for a better machine.  BTW I don't think the DC25 has a dual-brushroll setup, that's just the way the nozzle looks but it had me confused for a second as well.  The DC24's nozzle looks the same, from one side.  I could tell from the picture on the other side it was normal; the asymmetrical shape may have something to do with where the motor/gearbox is positioned.

In regards to low clearance height, blindly vacuuming under beds is asking for trouble.  To me it seems that a canister is better suited to that.  I can get on the floor with the power nozzle of my DC21 (which is fairly low-profile, but the next Motorhead will be even better in that regard), go all the way under the bed without a problem, and the machine actually picks up quite a bit.  It also lets me LOOK to see if there's anything that could damage the machine under there...usually there isn't but one can never be too safe.  I've found that with uprights, since the handle is fully pivoted (and most of them don't lie 100% flat without raising the nozzle slightly), they don't seem to seal to the rug as well under the bed than a canister's power nozzle would.  That's just my opinion.

-MH

I don't think either DC24 or DC25 have dual brush bars, for one the website would mention this in the spec.  The cleaning nozzles on these machines look simiular to the new motor head on the DC22 Japan model.  It looks like a second brush bar but probably where the motor is to power it.  If anyone has noticed both models have one long brush bar centre suction channel and looks like it is powered from one end (like the sebo vacs to mention one!).  From the pictures so far there is no where that covers part of the brush bar for the belt/gear that connects to the motor (like the DC15 and DC18).  I could be wrong!?

I don't think the DC24 will replace the DC18 Slim, the DC24 is more compact in size/height/weight making it easier to storage for people with limited space.  I don't think the wattgae of the DC24's motor is the same as the DC18 and DC25 which is 1200 watts although it gives the same performance of these full size models!  One thing which is a vast improvement is the cleaning head much lower profile than the DC15, probably lower than the DC18 too!  I wonder if the metal soleplate off the DC15 is on both of these!?  One advantage of the slim is the slims narrow body, so the cleaning head 'sticks out' either side of the body. This making it easy to cleaning along walls with radiators or 'kick boards' in the kitchen.  Although from pictures of the DC24 and DC25 the cleaning head is protuding slightly unlike the DC15.

I would have like to have seem at least on the DC25 the DDM and the Level 3 Cyclone technology but as is mentioned on this post that would have pushed the price up.  Both these models are very well priced from what I have seem on the UK Dyson Web.   The DC25 comes in at the same as the basic DC18 (UK) model.  Plus both these new models have standard HEPA filters which is a first for the UK.  Usually HEPA filters are fitted on higher spec Dyson models in the same range.  

I agree with iMacDaddy no one blindly cleans under furniture/beds, but I have mentioned in the past Dyson has never come back with anything to replace/match the slim profile of the DC03.  That is one model that would have benifitted from the DDM! Like the DC18 slim was a much needed model to the line up so are the 2 newcomers DC24 and DC25.  I can't wait to see both these 2 models myself!  Quite like the small DC24!

Thanks DIB for posting this picture, certainly does give a idea of the size of the DC24!

DC18

Motorhead wrote:

There's a simple solution whether its using a low profile upright like Oreck, a cordless HOOVER Slider, and/or a wand and hose from a canister vacuum.  Look under the bed and/or furniture before vacuuming.  Preferably in the daytime with your eyes open.  You can see for miles as the saying goes.  And, if there is anything that shouldn't be picked up by the vacuum, like toys, socks etc, or the dyson case that was reported by the hotline 10 twenty pound notes [that clogged the dyson hose] remove them before vacuuming.  Simple. 

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

True, yes, but from my experience with the Oreck it didn't seem to do well when the handle was all the way down.  When I vacuum under the beds I want the machine to do as good a job as it would if I was vacuuming carpet in open areas.

Regarding Mole and Venson's comments about the switched-reluctance (SR) motor technology.  The reason SR motors will be more desirable, I understand, is that they can withstand being run for long periods of time (if not indefinitely) due to the lack of a commutator and carbon brushes.  And because of the lack of a commutator and brushes they are also capable of much higher speeds than standard universal motors.  We all know the SR "Hurricane" motor in the Rainbow E-series is designed to be run on low speed 24/7 to clean the air; for vacuuming the hose is connected and the machine switched to high speed.  We haven't come this far yet, unfortunately, but I predict that one day magnetic bearings (where the only moving part is the motor shaft, being held in place by the magnetic field) will be added to this technology, making the SR motor virtually indestructible.  I am *not* in the business myself, but from talking with people who *are* in the industry I have not heard of any instances of motor/board failures in the E-series, yet.

Hi DC18, I was thinking the same thing about the nozzle, it threw me off for a minute because the powerhead motor in my DC21 is mounted above the nozzle.

Hi Motorhead

Yeah the pictures of these new models are deceiving!  Another thing I've noticed is that it doesn't look like the cleaning heads are detachable like the DC18 Slim!  Also the cleaning head only has one pivot point (excluding the pivoting point where the nozzle is attached to the main part of the machine) unlike the DC15 and other models DC14, DC07 etc...

Looking at the Gizmodo vid again the DC24 looks very flexible and easy to steer and move about!  Looks like another new change over valve is used to switch from floor to tool!

DC18

I have been looking up the specs of both machines, and I have been curious about several things. First off, the DC25 USA and UK counterparts share the same air watt rating of 220, however, the USA DC24 has only 110 AW in comparison to the UK DC24 AW rating of 220.

Also, the clear bin on the DC25 looks to be about the same size as the clear bin on the DC18, however according to the specs, the DC25 only holds .34 gallons of debris, less than the DC18's .44 gallon capacity. Has Dyson done something inside the canister to take up some space, I.E. - widen the center chute to squeeze in some sort of inner core separator cyclone? This could be the case, but it seems they won't go as far as to point it out on the Dyson online store; in the UK online store, the DC22 that DOES have Core Separation Technology is only said to have Root Cyclone, with a detailed image of a regular Root Cyclone assembly to accompany it.

And aside from that, why is Dyson keeping the Level 3 tech exclusive to the DC17? I mean, how hard is it to slap on the DC17 clear bin onto a DC25? Perhaps the Level 3 assemble would have added extra weight, and they decided against that (the DC17 is a 33 lb. machine after all).

Dyson definitely needs to start expanding their Core Separation line in order to stay ahead of the game.  The Root Cyclone technology is still very good, and has brought them to where they are now, but it's not the end.  I'm hoping they bring the DC22 here and give it the DDM and an electric power nozzle...we would then have both an upright and canister with the Level 3 system.  Until I looked at the Dyson UK website, I had no idea that they did not have any other Level 3 machines, and that the DC22 "Baby" was the first; however, that does make sense as I remember the DC17 was designed primarily to clean thick American carpets. 

-MH

The DC24 on the UK website has been changed to AW120, I'm sure I saw it originally at AW220 to start with.  On the UK Dyson web the bin capacity is 1.4 litres for the DC25 (0.85 litres for the DC24) compared with 1.7 litres for the DC18 Slim.  Although the bin capacity for the DC25 is smaller to the DC18 it looks wider looking at web pictures with the shroud filter bigger on the DC25.   I can not see any core cyclone technology being on the DC24 and DC25!  Both use root 6 - DC24 and root 8 DC25 for a guess!

The Core (level 3) is not exclusive to the DC17 as the DC22 in Japan and the DC22 Baby (UK) both have this technology as well although the Dyson UK web does not say it does for some reason!  A UK catalogue retailor features the DC22 Baby and mentions the core technology.   Putting this technology on thse 2 models may have increased weight plus Dyson may not have developed a scaled down version of this technlogy as yet!  No reason why it can not be achieved!

DC18

Motorhead wrote:

Mine works perfectly for both.  Maybe its the handle grip on mine.  I have the old conventional grip that goes all the way down to floor/rug.  In the complete prone position, for under bed vacuuming, the Oreck is on the same level from the rug nozzle to handle grip.  Perhaps, this would not be the case with the ergonomic loop grip.  I don't know since I haven't used it. 

Carmine D. 

DC18 wrote:
It appears they already have with the DC22; look at how small the entire machine is compared to the DC21 (with the cyclones twice as small). I don't see why they can't design a collection bin based on the DC22 bin for an upright, that is slightly taller, with fewer cyclones. I really don't think Core Separation needs a DDM, especially if it will work with a 200AW DC22 canister and a 220AW DC17 upright with standard motors.

On a side note, does anyone know if a Japanese appliance (I.E. Dyson DC22 DDM Motorhead) will work with American outlets?

iMacDaddy wrote:
Not unless you use a step-down transformer; the voltage in Japan is only 100 volts.  I know a higher voltage will ruin the DDM's control board and possibly take out other components with it...

Hi all,

Can't say that I buy into it but here's Lord D's spin on things:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/18/ndyson118.xml

Best,

Venson

Hello Venson:

Thanks.  I don't buy into the dyson drivel.  Couple of things I noted:  First, no prices indicated.  Second, no mention of the launch of the baby dysons in the USA at the VDTA next month.  Why?  The jaydee of years past would have publicized the dyson USA launch at least one month in advance and more likely months in advance. 

In the USA the baby dysons may do okay depending on the price.  Jaydee's philosophy is mark them up as high as possible.  DC18, a lite version of the dyson uprights, for $469.  BBB and LNT have it right.  They typically sell the DC18 for 20 percent off or about $100.  Still despite Airblade's mention years ago that this practice upsets dyson not to mention the retailers who take it on the chin with the dyson MAP.  $369 should be the retail for the DC18 before discounts.  Look at the DC16 for $149.  A joke. 

Baby dysons should also be baby prices not full prices.  But knowing dyson, if and when they come to the US, dyson will mark them up too high.  Even in the best of economic times, US consumers wouldn't give them a second look at the high prices.  Compound the situation with a recession, and vacuum buyers will think: What is dyson thinking? 

Carmine D.

  < DC24 & DC15 side by side.  For those who do not "Nail Their Dyson's To The Ground", enjoy.  Enlarged view here.

Amazon UK.  Here and here.

Super hi-res photo of the above here :-

http://item.slide.com/r/1/0/i/_E55sox20z_cmTYdGuOKk_93RdR3PuZB/

It shows it's construction looking a lot more simplified.

Hey Guys:

Nice pics!  Really.

How about one with the Ball, Slim, Mommie and baby dyson ball models?  Showing the evolution of the ball technolgy by dyson.  And if you are really energetic and resourceful, the major features: Like year of launch, Price, Cord length, Weight, and Dimensions and maybe Air Watts.  With the assumption that the new dyson baby ball models: Mommie and baby will make it to the USA sometime soon.  And price estimates on the baby ball dysons based on the UK amounts.

Just a thought from a non-dyson fan to consider for the Forum readers. 

Carmine D.

How about the warranty?

Hows the parts availability?

is the customer service line up to snuff?

Will consumer reports like it?

It should be priced at about $179.00,to $199.00,to compete with the other box store cleaners.

MOLE

Hi Mole,

I think "baby" will run more in the area of $250.  If Dyson released a hand vacuum at $150 -- which should have priced at $75.00 all things including its novety toy aspect considered -- and still wants it, I don't think it will price this new model which to my mind is a basically a stick vac,  at a reasonable amount either.  Does "baby" have tools?

Venson

Venson wrote:

Not sure about the tools.I would hope so though.

Does baby got tools......... Maybe but babys got back,one of my favorite songs from Sir MIX A LOT.

MOLE

GO NEW YORK FOOTBALL GIANTS..............

M00seUK wrote:

Moose, I'm impressed!  I’m pretty sure this link/code came from the slide show I took my pic from.  If so, how did you do it or could you link me a tutorial if not to much trouble?  Many thanks.        DIB

Hi DIB,

This is probably the best picture of the DC24 by far...side-by-side with the DC15 which IMO seems to be the best comparison.  The DC24 must be quite small in reality, because we all know the DC15 isn't much bigger than the DC07.  I like how it retained the same basic design of the DC15, but simplified slightly and with a few improvements like the center suction channel in the nozzle.  Now I'm anxious to see a real-life shot of the DC25.

Hi Venson,

I thought the same thing, that it resembled a stick vac or one of those "mini-sweepers" in a way.  While it's a small machine it's definitely not a stick vac, and it does have tools (in fact you can see the brush peeking out in the high-res photo).  I can't imagine a Dyson without attachments or the ability to do above-floor cleaning, it would go directly against their marketing for one machine to do all.  The reason for the DC24, or so I heard, is to counter Oreck's negative ads about the Dyson.  It's 4 pounds heavier than the Oreck, but this one would give the added advantage of having the attachments right there, instead of having to grab a separate minicanister to do above-floor cleaning. 

-MH

DysonInventsBig wrote:
Yay, just naturally inquisitve! I saw the news article before you posted and discovered you could get the URL to the original images by clicking through from the slideshow Flash object.

Motorhead wrote:
To mention that by including 'the ball' it would feel lighter in use than a wheeled vac.

It also presents a handy size for above ground cleaning tasks :-

http://item.slide.com/r/1/0/i/Lsy64tPX2D_XWPc7bIAsJz0VZc8Qz7U2/

Motorhead wrote:

I don't know about negative ads by Oreck, but recently when I was in an Oreck Clean Home Center, a customer was performing a test of the DC14 [average retail is $450] vice the Oreck XL Deluxe [average retail is $400].   For doing the in-store test, the Oreck customer gets a free gift.  I understand that the test has become a staple of the Oreck in-store sales.  

I heard the Oreck employee mention that Orecks are certified by the Rug and Carpet Institute of America.   And dysons are not.  The customer appeared interested in this fact and the literature that Oreck uses in concert with the demo.  When asked why by the customer, I thought the Oreck employee had a very good neutral [not negative] answer.  He said, with the supervision of the Manager of the store standing by, that dysons were made primarily for European carpets [even the US dyson models] which are less difficult to clean because they are lower pile than the American rugs and carpets.  Then the employee turned the Oreck and dyson over so the employee could see the differences in the brush rolls. 

I left shortly after this so I don't know if the customer bought the Oreck and what the free gift was for doing the test.

Carmine D.

M00seUK wrote:

Just a remnder, the same argument was made by dyson with the DC15 which weighs 20 pounds.  When Consumer Reports tested the DC15 Ball, it countered the dyson claim by saying that the wrist, hand, elbow and arm weight of the DC15 was too heavy, awkward, and bulky for many of its testers.  Including the men.

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

As a reminder, the Oreck compact canister is 5 pounds and has a HUGE dirt bag capacity.

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:

iMacDaddy

I meant to say a scaled down version for an Upright Dyson Model.  The bin diameters on the Dyson canisters usually are bigger than the uprights.  The cyclones on the DC22 are smaller but there is more of them at a guess about 15 compared to the current models of 8 cyclones (previous models UK - DC08/DC08TW had 12 small cyclones).  I agree the Core Separation could have been adapted for the DC24 (even the DC25!) but looking at the bin capacity the bin must be smaller than the DC18 Slim.  The Core Separation on a bin and cyclone setup that small would need the out cyclones making smaller.  Where as the DC22 has a bigger bin diameter.  I'm sure Dyson is already working on this.

DC18

HI DIB & M00seUK

Thanks for posting the links/pictures.  You can certainly see how small the DC24 is in comparison to the DC15.  Be nice to see the DC25 along side the DC24 and DC15. The ball looks bigger and more prominent in the DC24 compared to the DC15 probably due to the post motor filter being in the ball this time.  As I've said before the new model looks sleeker and the ball design simpler and the cleaning head slimmer in height.  Doesn't look heavy to pickup like the picture shows for using the tools for above floor cleaning.

I'm intrigued as to how the change over valve works on this model (and the DC25) as the dirt path has changed on this new model.   Although the same basic design from the DC15 has been kept!

DC18

If you look at the links/picture DIB & M00seUk has posted you will see some sort of tool on the DC24, plus the woman using it for above floor cleaning has some sort of crevice tool on the end of the wand.  From website pictures on catalogue sites etc.. I believe the DC24 (and maybe the DC25) comes with the smae combi tool as the DC18 Slim - crevice and dusting brush combined!  Also looking at the side profile looks like the stair tool (or upholsterty tool!) clips in at the bottom near the hose!  Could be wrong!

DC18

M00seUK wrote:
Here's the back view, showing the handle release and retracting wheels (that look similar to the Slim):

http://item.slide.com/r/1/0/i/XkiW38-T0j-PbmpnGeJWYB9GDVcZ14oJ/

CarmineD wrote:
Rather interesting that they were (once again) comparing the Oreck to a Dyson designed for European carpets, the DC14.  Why?  Well, if they did this with a DC17 (which *was* designed for American carpets), the Oreck would lose.  As I mentioned before, the test machine is always the DC07, 14, or 15 used in videos/demos/etc. that bash Dysons.

Perhaps they weren't negative, but the ads *were* critical of the Dyson, so James answered by bringing out another machine ;-)

CarmineD wrote:
The difference here is that the DC24 is considerably lighter, therefore it would be considerably lighter at the handle end as well.  Since the handle is fully extended that would decrease the weight even more, as it would give the user more leverage.  Look at the side-by-side comparison picture of the DC24 and DC15...it's no wonder the DC15 is top-heavy!

CarmineD wrote:
Exactly.  That's 5 pounds of extra machine (with no wheels, no less) that has to be carried around since the hose is too short.  I don't know if it's changed over the years (the new design can't be that different but I can only hope they have), but the Oreck XL canister I had had a TINY bag capacity.  I was changing those things every couple of weeks because they would get so full.  And while it had strong suction, the airflow was practically nil even with a new bag.

At least with the Dyson, it can stay on the ground, AND as I mentioned before, it's one machine for both carpet and above-floor cleaning.  Either way, there's no doubt the airflow is better than the Oreck minicanister.

Motorhead wrote:

I conclude from your statement then that you agree with Oreck that the DC07, DC14, and DC15 were not designed for American carpets.  And it took dyson almost FIVE years to make an upright for US carpets.  If the DC17 is designed for US carpets, I pose the same question the Oreck customer asked: Why doesn't dyson submit the DC17 Absolute for testing and certification on US carpets by the Carpet and Rug Institute of America?  Like all Oreck uprights.

My sense is the DC17 and Oreck XL would come VERY VERY close in test comparisons on varoius carpets for cleaning.  And it would be very hard to declare an overall winner.  Plus the DC17 weighs 21 pounds vice the Oreck which is only 8.

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

The DC24 should be compared to lightweight vacuums like the Sears Permalite and HOOVER Tempo even the SEBO Felix for manuevering and ease of handling.  Not a full sized vacuum.

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

No, not exactly.  That's 8-10 pounds less than the dyson DC24.  And the Oreck compact canister does come with a shoulder strap.  And the paper bags, at least on the new Oreck compact canisters, are a decent size for a compact canister.  Like I said huge.  And even using the early models with smaller bags, the combined dirt capacities of the Oreck XL upright AND the compact canister are much larger than the DC24. 

Contrary to you,  I prefer TWO vacuums than 2 in 1: A lightweight upright as a daily user for rugs/floors and a lightweight canister for all the above the floor cleaning (once a week and/or as needed).  Not one vacuum for both cleaning modes ALL THE TIME.  I also expect both lightweight vacuums to perform as well as their full sized counterparts and not be more expensive to buy.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
As you mentioned previously, different strokes for different folks I guess...I could never get used to using two different cleaners for different purposes.  If I'm vacuuming and I see cat hair on the sofa, dust on the window sill, etc., I like the idea that the vacuum is right there with me and all I have to do is detach the hose and pick it right up rather than make a mental note to go over it with another machine after I'm done.  Or, worse, stop vacuuming to get the other machine.  It's the same situation for uprights that can clean above the floor but don't have the attachments on board; I don't use my Ultimate G much for that reason.

While I will admit that yes, the bags of both Oreck machines are bigger than the DC24's bin, the user isn't expected to change the bag before or after each use either unlike the Dyson. 

Motorhead wrote:

There's an inexpensive cleaning invention and wonder on the market.  It's called a Swiffer duster.  Comes with a plastic handle and 5 disposable dusters.  Very cheap and easy to use.  About 10 inches long.  Almost weightless.  I always have one handy in the jacket pocket of the outer bag on my new Oreck XL.  When I'm vacuuming the rugs and floors, I take an extra few seconds just to swipe across the areas that need a light dusting and voila, all is clean until I'm ready to use the cann.  Works great.  It's made by Proctor and Gamble AND traps and locks in dust.  And it is an energy saver because it doesn't need electricity to operate.

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

No, not exactly.  Having lived and worked in Missouri for awhile, I always have doubt until I see the proof for myself.  I've used Oreck canisters and I am impressed with their performance for baby canns and light household cleaning, for garages, and cars.  And the price [free with purchase of the XL upright] is hard to beat.  Of course, the price is built into the XL cost.

I haven't used a DC24 yet.  I owned and used the DC07 pink [$400].  Very unimpressed with it.  Used the DC15 All Floors [$500].  It is absolutely the worse vacuum ever to come to market in the USA in the last 50 years with one possible exception.  I had the opportunity to buy and use a DC11 [$500] dyson cann for $100.  I turned it down and the dealer offered it to me for $50.  I turned it down again.  Why? This is IMH the one exception to the DC15.  And the DC16 hand held dyson [$150] is a very close second.  Dyson has the 3 worse vacuums I've seen come to market in the last 50 years.  And it took them just 2 short years to make the Triple Crown of the 50 years' worse in vacuums.

So you see I do have doubt.

Carmine D.

The DC24 "Blue" Animal and the DC23 "Bronze" Stowaway can be seen here.        DIB

Hi DIB

Thanks for posting the link.  I thought I was imagining it the other day on a UK website thought there was a DC25 Animal but siad product/picture removed!  So the DC23 is another canister!  I take it a bigger version of the DC22!?  Using 'Core' separation technology as well!

DC18

CarmineD wrote:

The dc17 is  another dyson MISTAKE.If the machine was priced right it may do a lot better.As Mark from florida says The DYSON advertising department is laughfing at you.tHE Dyson absolut is a absolute waste of money.

Please feel free to read his review on E-BAY.

MOLE

mole wrote:

Hello Mole:

I read Mark's review a while back and it is balanced and objective.  The shortcomings with the DC17 are its weight [21 pounds] and price [$549].  Retailers even on this site advertise them new for $440.   LNT and BBB consistently [both stores cater to female buyers and users] sell them for 20 percent off [about $440] despite dyson's objectives, so we are told by Airblade, a dyson insider on this site.  The DC17 has been in the US since September 2006. 

I expected dyson to intro a new full sized upright but thought it would be a revamping of the DC17 not the DC15.  I was wrong in that regard.  Why?  The DC17 is the ONE dyson model which most dyson admirers agree [with support from Consumers Report] is the best of the dysons.   I didn't expect a recycling of the Ball.  I will match the new recycled full size ball with the DC17 and compare. 

I'm not as excited about the new recycled ball dysons as the posters on this site.  I think jaydee will strike out again with the new ball uprights as he done with the DC15.  Why?  In part the consensus of opinion on the DC15, which next to the DC11, is generally agreed to be the worse of the dyson worse.  And CR is part of that consensus.  Have to give him kudos for perseverence.  His perseverence may not win favor among vacuum users for the new ball generation of uprights. 

We'll see if the new recycled dyson ball uprights come to US retailers. 

Carmine D.

Hello,

I have a super HQ picture of a DC24 for viewing.  I have more HQ pics of the DC24 and DC25.  If you want me to upload these additional pics, then "reply" and let me know.        DIB

Post them all here :-)

Oh, I had no idea it would be this big...

How Long does it take to get this machine apart?

Hi DIB

Very good super HQ picture of the new DC24 up close!

DC18

Hi DIB and Acerone,

Excellent pictures of the new DC24, thanks for sharing.  I'm anxious to see one in person, it should be out any day now...

-MH

Hi all,

There was a post a while back estimating the selling of the "ball-ette", the DC 24, and I responded that I felt Dyson would price this mini machine at a higher $250.00 -- even though Miele and Emer ask as high as $350 on their stick vacs.  Apologies to all, was I ever wrong.  Per the online shop at Dyson's website the DC 24, to be released March 10th, the cost on an advance order is $399.00.  I also noted that the handheld "Animal" -- the Root 6 with an added-on motorized brush is set at a going price of $200.00.

http://www.dyson.com/store/productmodel.asp?model=DC16

Venson

Anyone seen the 24 or 25 yet in person?

Venson wrote:
Hi Venson,

I don't know if I would classify the DC24 as a "stick vac", to me it's more along the lines of a lightweight upright like the Hoover Nano Lite, Eureka Optima, or even Oreck.  The result we have yet to see, but I think James' main goal with the DC24 was to design a machine that's lightweight but packs a good amount of power in a small package (and of course doesn't lose power).   Not to mention the added advantage of above-floor cleaning. 

Looks can be very deceiving on many levels.  I was blown away when someone told me that the DC18 (yes, the Slim!) is a favorite of ladies who clean houses professionally...

Motorhead wrote:

Hi MH,

Are we talking women who indepentdently buy and use vacuums for their own home cleaning services or women who work in the home as either live-ins or dayworkers?  How did he or she form this opinion?

I'd hope your friend's estimation is correct.  If it is, it would more likely apply to women in the home cleaning business.  Both a large portion of dayworkers and live-ins, who usually don't qualify as technicians, worry more over proper pay than the vacuum supplied. 

Venson

Hi Venson,

Yes, I was referring to women who run their own home-cleaning businesses.

Does the panel on the ball component actually detach?

Trilobite,  take a look.        DIB

The same guy who covered the DC22 Japanese launch event has recently posted what looks to be from a (recent?) DC24 launch event.  I’ve posted the only pic he's posted.  Enlarged.        DIB

Hi DIB,

Thanks for posting, excellent picture.  I'll have to check the album for more.  What caught my eye in this one wasn't the DC24, but the picture of the Cyclon on the left.  I only recently had the opportunity to use one of those and examine it up close...what a fascinating machine it is.  Being the first Dyson design, there are a few changes but it shares a lot of similarities with the DC07, especially the pivoting nozzle and the telescoping handle/wand.  The brushroll is a reverse chevron which I thought was unique.  Being such an early machine with this technology, it works surprisingly well on both 120 and 240.

-MH

I got to play with a DC24 today.  You can say what you like about "the ball" but on this particular unit it makes pushing it around a breeze.  I'm not sure about the new washable hepa filter, I've yet to see one that flushes clean use after use.  Perhaps the fact you have to clean it once a month means you'll never get the build up like you do in a filter that sits in the vacuum for  months to a year. If nothing else at least it should be good for extra filter sales.

Hi Dusty,

In your estimation, how many times a year would you replace this washable filter? 

Thanks,

Venson

Venson wrote:
I guess that would depend on whether the person using it followed the recommended monthly cleaning instructions.  Because there is also a pre-filter before the hepa I don't imagine it will get overly dirty but constant flushing under water will eventually break down the material.  I'm only basing this on other washable Hepas that I've seen, perhaps Dyson has a new wonder material that this thing is made of but only time will tell that.  Hepas take longer to dry than just a foam filter so on that alone I'd think that most people will want an extra filter so they're not always waiting for theirs to dry.  A shorter answer would be to say one filter a year with if cleaning instructions are followed :-)

dusty wrote:
Dusty, play around in the US or UK?

dusty wrote:

FYI:  Per Dyson’s U.S. customer service, the DC24 pre and post (HEPA) filters will need to be cleaned ever 3 to 6 months.        DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:
Yet if you look at the machine, both filters are clearly labeled wash AT LEAST once a month.  Having run the machine around the store for a week I'd say every few months wouldn't be enough.

Acerone wrote: Only on holidays.  Canada the rest of the time :-)

DIB: Thanks for that, I completely forgot about that exploded photo.

Dusty mentions about the filters being cleaned every month. Is this not going in the wrong direction? I thought Dysons' thinking was to have as little maintenance

as possible. Certainly, previous machines 'Root technology'  had 3 month intervals, and doesn't the alternative 'core separation / level 3 root technology' have longer washing intervals?

Seems like a counter-productive step to me; almost as bad as the cheap bagless' "...clean after every use..."

Trilobite wrote:
"concentrated technology", seems to mean smaller and fewer cyclones resulting in less efficient dirt separation in the chamber which in turn means more cleaning of filters.  Personally, I think this machines size fits a market segment and the people buying it wont mind the extra maintenance it requires.  Either that or nobody will ever touch the filters, the machines will clog and they'll wonder why they ever spent the money on the darn thing in the first place

Dusty

dusty wrote:

Dyson customer support was not up to speed on the in and outs of the new DC24/25, I was put on hold while customer support located the answer/s to my questions.  I did ask twice if the HEPA needed cleaning and each time was answered "yes and every 3-6 months".  That’s all I know of this.  Indeed, cleaning a HEPA once a month seems excessive.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
Hi DIB,

I agree, it doesn't make any sense why Dyson would modify the pre-motor filter type for this particular model.  I thought that it would have the same pre-motor filter as the other models, that should be rinsed every 6 months. This is interesting.  I guess we'll find out the real details in due time.

-MH

Motorhead wrote: The rep hinted that changes may be coming to filter cleaning requirements to the rest of the line too.  Apparently they want the customer to be a little more involved with the machine rather than just a once a year rinse out.  As you say, time will tell.

Dusty

What intrigues me most, is the haphazard way in which the new 'Core Separation Technology' is installed in the new range (...or not, as the case may be!)

The UK Dyson site is quite dreadful with the lack of information: ARGOS catalogue states DC22 does have Core Separation; Dyson site has no info.

dusty wrote:

The dyson "Never clogs. Never loses suction" mantra is coming back to haunt.  Takes more than a nifty change in wording and moving on.   Doesn't it?

I posted about my parking lot experience with a female COSTCO customer who was returning a DC14 Exclusive [$469 last I checked] that lost suction after one year.  I asked her if she cleaned the filter?  She looked at me belligerently and said:  "I was told this vacuum never needed maintenance.  That's why I paid $500 for it. "  Not a happy camper.  I bet she got her money back after one year of use.  I wonder if that was a friend or family member who gave her that advice?  Or a dyson rep?  Or a COSTCO sales associate?  Or all of them combined? So much for hearsay.  I mean word of mouth, excuse me.  Best form of advertising. I like to add the caveat:  WHEN AND IF IT"S TRUE.

PS: She had the dyson instruction manual with her.  It didn't look as though it was read.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
And this is why it's a good idea to buy for a qualified vacuum dealer who would (hopefully) explain the ins and outs of how any machine works and what is required to keep it going.  Can't keep count of how many people bring in their Hoovers, Eureka, Bissells and such and tell me what crap they are.  Have they changed the belt?  No.  Filters? No.  The response when you tell them they have to?  Gee, they didn't tell me that where I bought it.  At least they got a good deal on chicken and tires when they purchased it.

I will answer a few queries people have mentioned about the new models from Dyson from what I have seen in the UK:

1. The core serparation technology is only on the DC22/23 canisters as stated in the UK brochure pack which I have been sent.  The brochure states DC22 for smaller homes and DC23 for larger homes.

2. The root cyclone technology is only in the DC24/25 uprights.  Looking at the machines using root 6 technology (like the DC18 Slim and smaller version in the DC16 hand held)

3. In the brochure one of the DC23 canister models has a 'new' lower/slimmer contact head nozzle for going under low furniture.

The brochure packs do not mention filter cleaning.  What I've have seen so far with the DC24/25 in the shops in the UK (awaiting for the DC22/23 to be on display) the filter washing states on machines, the DC24 every month for both and the DC25 every 3 months for both.  I thought this was strange and a step back.  Why?  Well at least the bin set up on the bigger DC25 is the same as the DC18 Slim and that is every 6 months (pre motor only) and the DC24 bin which will be bigger than the DC16 hand held which the DC16 is every 3-6 months!!   The DC24 should be the same, surely!? The cyclones on the DC24 are smaller slightly than the DC25.  I don't understand why this is so with these 2 models, to me it's a step back!  I can understand why they may be getting the customer to wash the post motor filter (used to changed these on the DC01 every 3 months) unlike other models, and with the DC24/25 having 2 HEPA filters pre and post.  

Not sure on the DC22/23 filter cleaning until the modesl are on display!  I believe DC22 that was launched in Japan with it's core technology the filter cleaning (which I believe someone mentioned on here) is every 7 years!  Correct me if I'm wrong. 

Looking at the brochure pack on the DC24/25 looks like the gear system on the brush bar has been dropped in place of a belt on these 2 models.   The belt is at one end not in the middle or slighlty offsite.  From What I can see you have no access to the belt but you can remove the brush bar from one end only (similar to the DC15/18/21).  The bin release from the machine on the DC24 acts as the release to empty the bin as well.

DC18

dusty wrote:

You are probably not an advocate of "blindly" accepting and following advice from friends and family for purchases of $500 plus.  Instead, going to the experts and industry professionals.  Like for vacuums, especially dyson costing $500 plus.  Word of mouth among consumers doesn't always hold true.  You would agree from the customers you service. 

In hard economic times [like now] buying chickens and tires comes before vacuums for most US consumers.  You have to eat and drive your car to work if you want a roof over your head with rugs and furniture to vacuum.  I read that home foreclosures in the US exceeded housing sales for the month of January 2008.  The first time since the great depression in the 1920's and 1930's.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Wishful thinking, again.  If the Hoover Tempo or Elite Rewind had the word-of-mouth popularity of the Dyson (and the Dyson didn't) you would state otherwise.

Motorhead wrote:

Spoken like a die hard dyson worshipper who doesn't think but wishes his friends and family will do it for him.

Carmine D.

Only the DC22's equipped with the brushless motor have the pre filters that require cleaning every seven years. The DC22's equipped with standard brushed motors still rely on the 6-month cleaning intervals for the pre-filter.

As for the DC25, I am very disappointed to say the least, especially with the filtration system it was designed with. If you ask me, they should have directly carried the Level 3 Root Cyclone/collection canister from the DC17 (still the real flagship IMO) directly over to the DC25. But what do they do instead? They carried over an antiquated filtration system with a collection capacity that is less than half of previous Dyson models. The DC25 All Floors is going to be the most expensive base model upright in the range, so logically, it should be better in every way than it's lower numerically labeled stablemates. But no, it uses the same old cyclone tech, costs more, and holds less debris than it's full sized brethren. However, it does weigh only 16 pounds, and is easy to maneuver on a ball pivot...oh wait, the DC18 also weights 16 pounds and rolls on a ball pivot, can be had for around $420-$450, and technically holds more debris than the DC25, and only requires pre-filter maintenance every 6 months, not 3 like with the DC25.

I was hoping for a DC15 successor that would really showcase the best Dyson has to offer, but in this case, the DC25 is nothing more than a bloated DC18. For a company that prides itself with engineering and R&D, the DC25 is certainly several steps backwards. On the other hand, the new DC22 and DC23 canisters look to be big improvements over previous models, but there is no word on those being sold in the US...yet.

And while I'm airing by grievances, I would like to say that Dyson should drop the continuously building numerical naming scheme, and just develop several classes of products. I have in my mind what BMW does with their automobiles: 1/3/5/6/7 Series for their sedans and coupes, X3/X5/X6 for their SUV's, and Z4/Z8 for their coupe convertible roadsters. I would rather see an independent Ball range like B3 (DC24) B5 (DC18) and B7 (a proper DC25 designed the way I would prefer: DDM, Level 3, exchangeable brushrolls for different carpets). Then you would have your regular uprights: D3 (DC14), and D5 (DC17). Canister would be labeled as C3 (DC21), C5 (DC22), and C7 (DC23). With this line up, you will not see models disappear through discontinuation, only redesigned or revamped under a production cycle of, let's say, 1.5 to 2 years. Through this, you can also introduce new features and technology through newer models that would trickle down to lesser models once they are redesigned for their next generation product cycle.

Also, having established designations like D3 or C7 would let consumers see what models are in which end of the low to high end spectrum, and what product class they belong in. Some shoppers may go to best buy and think that a DC18 would be a better vacuum than the DC17 at deep cleaning, just because the numerical designation of the Slim model is one higher than the Absolute (which we all know is not true). Or maybe someone would think that the DC25 may be better machine than the DC17 because the number is higher; in this case, it doesn't make sense to compare a lighter weight, less aggressive Ball model to a more traditional model that deep cleans better and has a superior filtration system. That's why I think Dyson should establish fixed nameplates, and segregate different products in different classes to avoid confusion.

Dyson, like we were told by Tom Gasko and his drivel, was looking for the DC15 Ball to be his signature vacuum.  "The greater dyson," I believe Gasko called it.  It flopped.  It is a dud.

Dyson is still trying, as this subject name says, to bring his ball back. 

A DC18 can be bought now from Linens-n-Things for less than $400 WITH a $50 Gift Card.  Wait awhile and it will $100.  DC18, made and sold in 2007, ranked below the DC07 [almost 6 years old] but above the DC15 [3 years old]. 

Dyson has been slipping downward since 2004, probably its best year due to DC07 sales.  2005/6 was better because of higher dyson product prices and new market opportunities, like Canada.  But the last 2 factors are one time spikes. 

Dyson fans and followers are perplexed by the dyson differences among its products.  What do you think "average consumers" think?  I forgot.  They don't think.  They accept and follow the advice of their friends and family when they make purchases.  Word of mouth. 

Carmine D.

I have to say on inspecting the DC25 up close the bin could have been taller and wider in diameter.  But would this of added to overall weight!?  I would also say the DC15, DC18 and the new DC25 probably give the same performance.  The only advantage is the DC25 is lighter than the DC15 and less bulky.  Although the DC25 is cheaper than the DC15 was but the same price as when the DC18 was launched - £279.99. 

One thing to note is both the DC24 and DC25 have smaller cleaning nozzles than the standard models.  You could say the DC25 is a enlarged DC18, but the DC25 does move more smoothly than the DC18 due to the bigger ball.  There is no metal soleplate on these new models like the DC15 had, plus the 2 pivot point flexing nozzle head on the DC15 is not present on them either. 

If someone had to choose between the DC18 or DC25 apart from size to me underneath they are the same.  I think I would go for the DC18 due to it slim profile, but saying that the body of the cleaner feels heavier due to the upright mounted motor unlike the DC25 which is in the ball which is on the floor!

DC18 

CarmineD wrote:

Foreclosures are the result of greedy finance companies (the pros) and idiotic home buyers.  Sort of like a vac purchase from a lying vac pro.

CarmineD wrote:

I have called all my family and friends and invited them over for a vacuum party.  I am recording all vacuum commercials so we can watch them.  I have bought every magazine with a vacuum ad and will likely have these passed around as we praise the local vacuum shops who have so graciously screwed us.  Oddly they tell us that what they sell is the best.

Thanks for the idea carmine.

HARDSELL wrote:

Hello HS:

It's not my idea.  It's Oreck's.  I can't take the credit.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Why does that not surprise me?  You know how the old saying goes, birds of a feather flock together...

CarmineD wrote:
I'm not an advocate of blindly following anyones advice no matter what the cost of purchase.  Different strokes for different folks.  What works or doesn't work for one person doesn't mean it'll be the same for me.

Motorhead wrote:

You consider it a privilege to know and "love" James in just a few short years of friendship.  I've known Dave for over 50 years.  He is an icon in the vacuum industry in the USA.  He and his vacuums pass the test of time.  He's probably the last of the best of the industry still around.  It is an honor and privilege to know him.  His children's children will call him blessed. 

The only feathers flocking around him are the ones that the dysons can't pick up in the match offs against ORECK.  Not to worry.  ORECK gets them up, contains securely for disposal in a huge paper bag, and leaves no feathers, dust and dirt behind.  Not in the air, on the vacuum or in the vacuum.  Simply Amazing.  More clean.  Less money.

Carmine D.

dusty wrote:

Way to go.  I'd buy a vacuum from you.  Why?  You're honest and sincere.  Good qualities in the vacuum sales and service industry.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
You know the only reason Oreck came up with that idea is because they couldn't sell the damn thing in the first place.  They were encouraging people to talk about it because it wasn't coming naturally as it did for the Dyson. 

Funny that all of the Oreck tests involve nothing but surface dirt...I'd love to see what happens with ground-in sand or potting soil (which the Dyson does well on).  I am fully aware that the Dyson takes a bit longer to pick up kapok on a rug than most because the brushroll isn't turning as fast as the Oreck's...I've seen the video of an Oreck XL21 and a Dyson DC14, and again with my own eyes when I tried a kapok test with a DC07.  The twist (or what is not seen) is that because of the slower brush speed, the Dyson can actually deep clean while the Oreck only removes the surface dirt...there will always be added dirt from within the carpet along with the test kapok in the bin.  These little "speed tests" mean NOTHING in the grand scheme of things.

And for what it's worth, the XL21 is $749, $200 more than the DC17 Absolute.  And that's if you're buying it from a big-box retailer.  Buy the DC17 from an independent and the XL21 will be $300 more.  Less money?  I think not. 

-MH

This thread is about DC24/DC25, so keep on topic.

Hello Mike:

I figured you chime in.  But I thought it would be because of this comment I made in my post here:

"The dyson "Never clogs. Never loses suction" mantra is coming back to haunt.  Takes more than a nifty change in wording and moving on.   Doesn't it?"

You let me down.

Carmine D.

BOYS,BOYS,BOYS, How many times do i have to tell you guys that the upright market is fading away and fast,just ask your customers what their floor plan is,95% of the floor plans today do not call for an upright.Canister/Tank machines with electric power nozzles clean as good as any upright out there,dont give me the cyclonic suction B.S. bagged bagless it just customer preference.

B.T.W does water filter the air...................

MOLE

Dyson will never go in the canister market,it dont know how to get it right,it seems like the public isnt swallowing their line of B.S. anymore.

Hard sell,you were suppose to give me a review on your rainbow,you know the one you have in storage.HA.HA.HA.

MOLE

mole wrote:
Mole, your statement baffles me, because uprights are still very prevalent today, and Dyson already *is* in the canister market.  Unless of course it's more wishful thinking which I wouldn't doubt coming from you.

First off, on the subject of canisters.  Dyson learned with the US DC11 (that may no longer be produced in the US but is still being produced elsewhere, FWIW) that people wanted a canister for other tasks besides bare floors and dusting, namely carpets.  That was answered in March of 2007 when a canister with an electric power nozzle (one of the best I have to say) was brought out.  Not to mention the upcoming canister model which I thought was going to be released last month but isn't on the Dyson website as of yet.  If you want to talk worldwide, then let's name them off:  DC12, DC19, DC20, DC22, DC23, and those aren't even all of them.  How's that for "will never be in the canister market?"

Now, to get this thread back where it was, at least somewhat related to the DC24, uprights perform just as well as canisters on bare floors if they have a provision for shutting off the brushroll and a well-designed nozzle.  The DC24 has both, making it a good candidate for both surfaces.  If the nozzle is anything remotely close to that of the DC15, then there's a good possibility it has a suction channel in the front for larger debris on bare floors as well.  I don't understand what you mean by "floor plans", because if we're talking multi-level, a canister would actually be more of a nuisance to carry up and down a flight of stairs (or several).  So in that regard, wouldn't an upright, especially one with a telescoping handle, be easier and better suited to this type of floor plan?  Looking at your statement again, we could say that traditional uprights with no bare floor capability are becoming less common, not modern uprights.

-MH

Motorhead wrote: The motor head runs on 3 small wheels that give it enough clearance to gobble up rice and such. I like this system on bare floor compared the the standard brush type that just seems to collect everything on the front bristles.  I'm not sold however on using this on nicely finished wood floors.  The ball isn't exactly soft and has a tendancy to have grit stick to it making scratching a possibility. 

Dusty

CarmineD wrote:
Aww, thanks!  So where can I send your new Dyson?

Motorhead wrote:

Hi Tom, your right i'm sorry it will never happen again. I will put down my sword and sell out my integrity to sell and devoit my life to Sir James and his band of Einsteins,I will follow the DYSON credo to a T. How foolish of me even to think that I could question you and Sir James,I'm should bow my head in shame. B.T.W  have you been banned from the vacuumland site recently?

sincerely.........THE-MOLE

DC18, Thank you for all the information you've provided from the Uk.  Interesting indeed.  How did the handle weight of the DC25 feel compared to a DC14 or DC07?  Thanks.        DIB

DIB, your welcome.  I'm not sure that is something I didn't check but will do and let you know.   One think I do understand is why they use the handle design on the DC18 Slim and changed it back like the rest of the models (UK) oin the DC25.

DC18

mole wrote:

Today, Forbes magazine online came out with an article called; “The World's Richest People”- “Billionaire Inventors”.  Dyson leads the article and is only compared to/referenced with Edison.  But your Einstein reference is good too.        DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:
I (along with a few others I recall?) think of James Dyson as the Preston Tucker of the vacuum industry, going up against the "big guys" with his creation that is an improvement over the existing technology.  Thankfully, though, unlike Mr. Tucker, James came out successful in the end, no doubt due to the era he brought his invention to the world.  He couldn't have picked a better time to do this, as I honestly don't know that he would have succeeded 30-40 years ago.  Now, however, the older "bags are best" generation who wouldn't have given his machine a second look in the 1960's or 1970's has for the most part gone by the wayside (died off and continues to die off for lack of a better word).  That or some look at the new technology with optimism and see the positive changes.  Whether or not members of that generation (especially those who are dead-set in their ways and refuse to adjust with the changing times and advancing technology) buy the Dyson is unimportant, it's not their sales James is looking for.  The younger generation which the machine is largely being marketed to sees it as something new, innovative, and (most of all) effective, a large improvement over what existed before.  They ultimately buy it without regret and love it, as I have.  That, to me, is what has attributed to the millions of Dyson sales worldwide, especially in the last 5-6 years.

Comparing bags to true cyclonic bagless is like comparing drum brakes to disc brakes, or carburetion to fuel injection.  Old vs. new.

-MH

Numero Uno is Warren Buffet, my favorite and the owner of Kirby.  $62 Billion.  Even beats out Gates this year who held the spot for 13 years.  [Unlucky number].

It was winning 2 vacuum lawsuits that gave jaydee the start up capital to open the plants in the Malmesbury UK in 1992 and Malaysia in 2001 to mass produce dysons in the UK and then worldwide.  He faltered in the vacuum business for years until he won the 2 lawsuits.  Essentially giving him in excess of $8 MILLION US. 

I think I could have parlayed $8 Million US into a BILLION in 7 years too.  And I wouldn't have had to move away from my computer to do.  How?  I would only have had to invest the sum in Berkshire Hathaway stock to make the $1 B mark in that timeframe.  Just as Buffet did.

Carmine D.

I stopped by Sears today to take a look at the 24 or 25 and they weren't allowed to bring them on the floor until Monday....

CarmineD wrote:

With all your years in the vacuum business you had the same opportunity as J D to improve the vacuum.  No reason to hate J D just because you made no contributions to improvement..

HARDSELL wrote:

I'm happy for him.  I don't hate him.  I bought and still own my DC07 pink.  At least $45 of the purchase price went to a good cause [I'm told]: Susan G. Komen Foundation for Breast Cancer.  I think it will be a collectable soon along with other dyson models.

Carmine D.

The Japanese, DC24 Motorhead launch.  Here and here.

The DC24 and 25 are official launched today for those living in the US....

Looks like jaydee's audience of one is focused on something else.

Carmine D.

I think it looks quite cute.  I can't believe I'm saying that about a vacuum cleaner.  I saw it in shops and liked the look of it but its too small for a whole clean.  It isn't designed for that I suppose.

I saw the DC24 in the shops yesterday - it looks good and certainly stands out alongside the other bagless vac clones.

As mentioned, a sticker on the cyclone unit reminds you to check the filter every 1month... is this because with the reduced bin size, there's more chance of the user overfilling?

I like the multi-purpose bin release / trapdoor switch - simple and effective.

What is the big deal about checking / changing a filter.  If it is not getting dirty it is not performing it's job.  Does anyone change the oil and air folter on their auto?

Has anyone ever cleaned the filter on a Hoover.  This is the worst ever, however our pro doesn't want this mentioned.

HARDSELL wrote:

Hi Hardsell,

No, there's really not much to making  filter checks but most unfortunately the larger part of owners appear to think that vacuum cleaners take care of themselves just like brooms.  (They don't know there are care rules for brooms either.) They won't empty bags or notice clogs until the machine either doesn't pick up well or at all -- not a good thing -- and as for filters this seldom crosses the mind of the average user until -- again -- something crucial happens.  This is why repair shops are full.

When a pitch is being made regarding just about any brand of bagless vacuum what is stressed is that all you have to do is walk over to a trrash can and dump it.  I have never heard much regarding the negatives -- the dust raised in the process of emptying, the fluff that gets caught on the shroud requiring removal by hand -- mentioned.  Of all things, filter maintenance is the last thing mentioned.  I've encountered numerous buyers who think bagless means absolutely no maintenance other than dumping out the bin.  Worse yet, there seems to be no line of logic that leads them to see otherwise.

The hope is that the better bagless machines and even bagged ones are being made as "user proof" as possiblle.  The only thing they've come up with so far iis the thermal overload switch.

Best,

Venson

As much as I like and respect James, he seems at times to over react in an attempt to fix problems.  Dyson, at present is being sued by Oreck, and was just sued by Hoover.  Oreck states Dyson’s do clog and is suing claiming this pitch hurt Oreck sales.  Oreck wants to collect money from James’ DC18 sales.  Getting sued in many countries can lead to an over reaction and an defensive position to the cleaning the pre-filter (and now HEPA).  Dyson needs to just stick a “time to clean your filter” indicator on all his great vacuums and the problem/s solved.  He is design guy and has a hard time (at times) making consumer friendly (dummy/worry free/child proof) tweaks.  Put an indicator on your vacuums Mr. Dyson, and you will put an end to the confusion and/or complaints and/or needless breakdowns.

.

The DC24 looks to have a typical Dyson type HEPA (thickness and pleats) filter.  Overfilling past the “max line” on the bin, thereby dust loading the high efficiency filters/cyclones is real and plausible and leads to dirtying prematurely the pre-filter and then onto (dirt escaping) and passing onto and clogging the HEPA.  Who knows, perhaps this motor cranks out the rpm’s thereby putting out more carbon dust than what’s typical for James’ vacuums (it’s just a guess).

.
Canister emptying and is it messy?  Well Dyson is suing Oreck over Oreck’s claim to just this and many other false advertisement claims (alleged by Dyson) that were made by Oreck when Oreck compare their XL21 (I think this is the number) to a Dyson DC14 in their infomercials and related marketing.  Read the directions and use a bag when empting your Dyson (Dyson says in the lawsuit) and eliminate much of the dust leaking when empting a bin.        DIB

HARDSELL wrote:

My Man:

In fact today, changed the oil, filter and air cleaner on the old Explorer XLT.  Yes Sir, still like to do it myself.  Especially here in the desert where it needs doing more often.

On the second point, HOOVER has a patent on a teflon coated bin filter.  Easier for the dust/dirt to fall off Allows washing with water.  Available in its least expensive bagless models, like the $100 EmPower.  Now that's a model that's been around since 2003 and still going strong.  Especially with Consumer Reports.

Carmine D.

I posted this picture only because I saw an earlier picture (from an online magazine) of a woman testing a DC24 and holding the vacuum above the floor (at her hip), just only so she could get enough reach to vacuum at ceiling height. – She was doing it incorrectly.  Remarkably, Dyson himself shows the proper way of using a hose and wand on the DC24 with its far reaching ability.  Well done!        DIB

DIB:

Thanks again for the photos, it does appear to be a user access port to get to the filter.

The photo of the cleaner next to James Dyson, makes the cleaner look like a child's toy.

I was wondering about the suction power rating for the DC24. It is supposed to be 100 airWatts. Would I be correct in thinking that lesser suction power excerts lower gravitational forces upon the dust particles, thus allowing more dust through to contaminate the pre-motor filters?

I wonder what electrical wattage the motor is, in this cleaner?

DIB:

Looking at James Dyson using the tools above the floor, the hose looks to be fully stretched, and a little on the short side. No use for cleaning a staircase.

Aha!!!

Just checked Currys.co.uk.

DC24 has 650 Watt motor, generating, apparently, 120 air Watts of suction power.

DC03 had a 700 Watt motor, achieving around 90 air Watts suction power.

I believe the DC24 has been designed for apartments and flats and small houses.  With the DC24 being small and lite in a small hoise cleaning the stairs th euser would have to hold/rest the vacuum on the stairs and they vacuum with the hose.   I had the same issue with the DC15 as the hose on that is smaller in length to the other models (DC04/07/14) which when I spoke to Dyson (UK) helpline they sent me out a flexible hose extension to solve this issue!

DC18

Do you think jaydee needs a wardrobe consultant?  Nehru jacket

and banded shirt collar.  Really!  Talk about retro look.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I thought you liked retro.  How about all fhose old vacs.

Its a cute looking product and very stylish!!

HARDSELL wrote:

Hello HS:

Ah but those old vacuums are classics.

As a high ranking retired exec of a Fortune 500, you can appreciate the importance of maintaining the proper business attire for your prospective clientele.  The Japanese business men are very conventional in their dress.  Suits, shirts, preferably white, with ties. 

I like jaydee's use of the banded collar white shirt.  However to attain a more classic business look, he should have combined the banded collar with a traditional single/double breasted suit.  Then he has the business professional look by buttoning the collar without the need for wearing a tie.  My preference in fact to the conventional shirt and tie for almost 20 years.  Then removing the jacket and unbottoning the collar allows him to become casual dress without the need to change clothes.  Excellent for those dress down/casual Fridays when you have a morning meeting with the CEO, CFO, and/or COO.  But still want to have lunch at the local favorite place and toss down a couple of cold ones with the rank and file.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I am sure you would know about corporate dress code.  Which corporation did you work for?  I forgot.