Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dyson working on new generation of fast, green cars

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/dyson-working-on-new-generation-of-fast-green-cars-852023.html

Not a huge news story, in that it's merely confirmation that they're actively working on projects in this area, as are lots of people around the world. They're hoping that the work they put in to the DDM, along with research in to solar cells will help them. Anyway, to show that those 400 engineers aren't just working on the vacuum cleaners.

M00seUK:

Interesting as cars go.  Dyson is certainly trying every way possible to justify 450 engineers/scientists and 12 designers.  But, it begs the questio: Where's the beef?

Dyson's mainstay is vacuums.  How have dyson's 450 engineers done with the 5 minute run time on the $45 batteries in the DC16 Hand held?   After 2 years on the market, with a new turbo brush version too of the DC16, has dyson progressed to get the operating run time up and closer to 30 minutes?  This is the standard for most of today's cordless [less expensive] hand and stick vacuums in the industry.  

Is dyson still silent on the run time for the DC16 in its product literature and advertising?  Or does dyson state the time period now?    Kind of embarrassing for a maker to admit that a $150 plus floorcare product can only run 5-6 minutes tops on a full charge. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

There's been a lot of talk in the news over the last 6 months, of researchers finding methods to get more run time from Lith-ion batteries :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion#Breakthrough_Research

All very useful for Dyson's long postponed robot cleaner, the DC16 handheld and a car powered by battery power.

James Dyson admitted in a recent interview that the 5min run time of the DC16 was one of the main points in product feedback. He went on to explain that a lot of people were clearly using in a situation as replacement for a full sized vacuum (rather than spot cleaning) and perhaps they'd develop it further with this in mind, in the future.

This is pretty much my experience. Having wood floors throughout, I found the DC16 was great for picking up swept debris, but could do with working a bit longer between charges. Now, I'd never bothered with the small form factor hand vac until the Dyson, so I took a look at another brand of handheld vac my parents have. It is perhaps a 1/4 of the price of the Dyson, but it is frankly terrible. The opening is tiny, to make up for the small motor and filter / bag thing. I can now see why people have been pushing the Dyson handheld to it's limits, this other vac would have problems picking up anything beyond toast crumbs.

CarmineD wrote:
I'm so glad I can take you on a trip down memory lane. It's good to think back about all the fun times once in awhile.

I wasn't aware I was "word smithing".  I thought I was clarifying what I had said

I mentioned the Asthma society simply because during our discussion at the time we were talking about airborne hazards while emptying the bin on the Dyson.  I mentioned it because it was relevant to the conversation and I simply posed the question as to how Dyson could get this rating if it was as bad as you said.  Not once did I ever mention anything about the authenticity of the rating...for that matter, not once did you ever suggest it could be a bogus rating.  You brought up Oreck and the CRI.  I looked it up as a matter of interest (hadn't been to their site before) and saw that manufacturers could be members and have their product rated.  I made comment on the fact, just as you could have done with the Asthma society.

I am curious.  When I make $200 on an Oreck sale, is that a bad thing?  The fact that this is helping pay my mortgage and keep my business running, is it wrong to be selling these Orecks? Should I be sticking with Panasonic and Hoover and taking my $50-$75 instead?

Dusty

Dyson working on new generation of fast, green cars.  Here.

Dusty:

I explained to you that the reason dyson gets the approval from the Allergy and Asthma Foundation is the elaborate 2 pages of directions with illustrations in its Users Manual for the proper dumping of the dyson dirt bin by asthma and allergy sufferers.  The only addition to MOLE's showroom floor bagless display that would drive home the fallacies of bagless dirt bin dumping would be blow ups of the dyson illustrations and directions.   

You my good fellow, just as the dyson fan before you, brought up the profit of $200 on the sale of dysons.  No one asked him or you.  You both volunteered the information about dysons.  Ironic?

My answer to you and to him is the same:  Never sell a product [vacuum or other] for the profit in it.  Not if you are in business for the long term.  Definitely don't boast and brag about the markup.  When you and he do, the message the readers and customers get is that you sell them for the money.  

Instead, sell and brag about products because you believe in your heart and mind that they are the best ones for the money and for your customers.  If you do, all the rest falls in place.

I certainly would never recommend/sell a bagless vacuum, even dysons, to a person[s] who suffers with sinus, allergy, and asthma problems.  Never.  Even If he/she insisted.  I wouldn't.  I'd tell them to buy from another store. 

Consumer Reports and medical doctors advise persons with these breathing conditions to avoid using bagless vacuums.  I do too.  Even dysons, despite the elaborate instructions that are complete with diagrams and illustrations. 

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB:

M00seUK posted already.  What do you want to do give twice the credit to dyson just because he hired 450 engineers and 12 designers.  Once is enough.

BTW, you may want to read my response to M00seUK and his reply. 

Carmine D.

M00seUK;

Just to pick up on some essential points that I raised.  Dyson and his army of engineers have not found a solution to the run time on the DC16 after 2 years of operations.  Dyson now specifies the run time of the DC16 on its Web Site.  Not sure about the latest dyson product literature in stores that carry the DC16.  I've seen DC16 advertisements and product literature that are silent on the run time.  Is that dishonest?   

I believe if people are told the run time, they wouldn't buy the DC16.  BTW, in the US dyson takes $100 off the DC16 with the purchase of any new dyson vacuum.  In time, retailers, who carry the DC16 and not many do, will do the same.  And then they will be a free giveaways with dyson purchases.

Which begs the question for me to ask:  If dyson can't improve the battery run times on the DC16 hand held vacuum in more than 2 years, what makes me/anyone think they can design and produce a car that operates on batteries?  Just because you boast of 450 engineers, doesn't mean they are gainfully employed, utilized and earning their keep. 

Since we are on the subject of cars, GM employs 400 engineers and scientists to rework all the cars in its 8 divisions to be more fuel efficient.  The US has 435 Congress men/women governing the US with over 300,000,000 people, 50 states plus territories, and a budget of 13 trillion dollars annually. 

Carmine D.

Dusty:
I explained to you that the reason dyson gets the approval from the Allergy and Asthma Foundation is the elaborate 2 pages of directions with illustrations in its Users Manual for the proper dumping of the dyson dirt bin by asthma and allergy sufferers.



Yes, this is what you explained.  Was this a fact or once again your professional opinion?  When I look at the testing requirement from the website I find that there is no mention of an elaborate user manual.  Where were you getting your facts from?  The testing procedure follows....

WHAT IS A VACUUM CLEANER CERTIFICATION STANDARD?
Vacuum cleaners that are certified asthma & allergy friendly™ are tested to the ASP-VC-01: 07
Vacuum Cleaner Certification Standard.
The Certification Standard utilizes an algorithm of proprietary and recognized scientific techniques
to assess vacuum cleaners for their ability to reduce allergenic and irritant materials, both when new
and after extended use. Submitted vacuum cleaner models that pass certification testing are granted
a certificate stating that the particular vacuum cleaner meets the requirements for the asthma &
allergy friendly™ ASP-VC-01: 07 Certification Standard.
Allergy Standards Ltd (ASL) subjects the vacuum cleaner to allergen and particle count-based
performance testing to ensure that the vacuum cleaner reduces total allergen burden, while
minimising any increase in airborne allergen levels.
The Vacuum Cleaner Certification Standard includes:
(a) Evaluation of capability to remove allergen-containing test dust from carpets
(b) Evaluation of airborne allergen levels during vacuuming
(c) Evaluation of the integrity of the air filtration system
(d) Assessment of the performance of the vacuum cleaner immediately prior to activation of
bag replacement / receptacle emptying signal and filter change signal
(e) Assessment of exposure to allergens during bag change or receptacle emptying
If you require further information on this aspect of testing please contact:
standards@allergystandards.com

My answer to you and to him is the same:  Never sell a product [vacuum or other] for the profit in it.  Not if you are in business for the long term.

So we should sell for the warm fuzzy feelings we get when we make a sale?  How can one last in business when that is the case.  We try and choose the best product we can with a decent enough margin to continue in business.  I personally believe Dyson is the best bagless vac on the market, I have no problem selling it.  We also carry product that we feel is a good customer buy that margins are limited on..we have to have these to compete with box stores.  If we were to rely on them completely we'd have closed up shop years ago.  The vacuum business is like any other business...high end products return higher profits.  You think Cadillac is that much better than any of it's GM counterparts?  Same cars, different trims much bigger profits.

Dusty

Hello Dusty:

My my, good fellow.  What a web of deception mortals weave when they begin to deceive.

In your latest position on certifications here  [after I pointed out the contradiction of your 2 posts: One in support of a professional association cert for dyson (which accepts fees for services) and another in objection to a cert from a professional organization (for accepting fees) that you said you take all certs/approvals with a grain of salt.  Neither for and/or against.  You just mention them for argument's sake. 

Now you quote the testing process and appear to have had an epiphany!  Would you like to change your mind on the subject?  Again?  4 times in a week.  Flip, flop, flip, flop where will he stop?  

Isn't it a well known fact that dyson paid to have the testing and cert?  Isn't it also a well known fact that you question the objectivity of any cert/approval granted by an organization that accepts a fee for the service?  Then, based on these factual statements, you can't accept the dyson approval and not the CRI approval?  Regardless of the tests/bases for passing and approval.

You are right.  Maybe you should start a separate thread devoted just to vacuum certs and approvals.  In fact, one thread just for your posts on the matter.  Seems you have all the bases covered: For, against, neutral and then back through and start all over again.

Carmine D.