Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I have an old Ariens snowblower that is in good shape but with a tired engine. I've been looking into a new replacement. The logical candidates seem to be the Tecumseh OHSK70, the B&S Intek 7.5, and the Honda GX200. 

The Honda seems to have the most torque (10 ft lbs) but is also by far the most expensive - $500 versus around $300 for the other two.

I have never seen a torque figure quoted for the Tecumseh, but it seems like the Intek 7.5 is around 7 ft  lbs?

Another engine that I came across was the Robin Subaru EX series, a 7hp OHC engine that has a lot of advanced features but isn't much more than the B&S or Tecumseh. They all have the same crankshaft (3/4") and height (about 4.17").
B&S sent me data sheets on the replacement: the Honda dealer has an employee who did one; and Tecumseh gave me all the dimensions and concerns (mostly about fitting the chute crank under the engine) but they all seem like they'll work.

I live in Boston MA and the current unit is a Tecumseh H50 on a 1970 Ariens. I checked the compression and it's 65 psi on the first pull and 75 psi after 2 or 3 (by hand pull). I do the sidewalks up and down the street for  some older (or lazier) neighbors so the kids can walk to school without walking in the road. The blower is great because it compacts the snow a bit and the biggest problem here after a snowstorm is finding a place to put it. I've used the unit 8 times so far this season.

  Garandman

Go to Small Engine Warehouse and look  at their engines and prices.

I'd wait till till late summer to do your conversion, warmer and more selection on SB engines.

Also review on this site,Reviews,there is a good   one  on Briggs Intek engines.

                                    Hope this helps.

                                                                               Fred    

Put a Kawasaki on it that thing will throw snow forever lol.Do they even make snowthrowers with  Kaws. on them? 

Does the Honda GX200 offer a heat box for winter use? If not, I would dismiss that choice unless you can locate a heat box for it.

Otherwise, many like the Briggs Stratton Intek Snow engine - I believe it offers electric start too where with the Tecumseh the electric starter is extra.

Marty

The Honda is not offered with a heat box or other Winter configuration. The local guy who put a Honda on his simply removed the air cleaner element and has had no problems with weather and is extremely impressed with the performance of the engine compared to his old H70. My brother has a Honda snowblower so I can take a look at what, if anything, is special for the application.

Small Engine Warehosue does seem to have the best prices. They have some "scratch and dent" engines that are less expensive still. Some pop up on ebay but I'm reluctanct to purchase one  from other than an authorized dealer.

They show a Kawasaki 5 hp and 8 hp and the 8hp doesn't have the correct shaft. That's a little farther afield than I want to go.

I don't need electric start or a headlight, so the provision isn't that useful to me. If a big storm is coming I put the blower in the basement (heated) so starting is not a problem. To boot, I live in Boston so it's not expecially cold, I have a gigantic 40 degree heat reservoir 400 yards away (called the Atlantic). Average snowfall YTD is 37". We've had 83 with more forecast for tomorrow.

I'm not in a rush and will wait until snow season is completely over (April 1) to start, but this is the best tome of year for me to complete the project - Fall is much too busy.

Hey Garandman!...........Welcome to the forum!

Go read my review and you can see what I think of the B&S engines.

As far as the Honda replacements are concerned,  I checked into that a while back and after I picked myself up off the floor, concerning the price,  I took a pass. They would not warranty the engine after modifying it for snow use, and it seemed impossible for them to get a replacement snow engine????????

Ken

The frustrating thing about the B&S engine is that the spec sheet doesn't work on their website. Somewhere I found a spec sheet with torque values and as I recall it was about 7.5. I've never seen one for Tecumseh.

The Intek does seem like the best balance of price/performance. I'd like to go to the next size engine but the output shaft is higher and the amount of work increases dramatically - you need a new shroud and have to make a bunch of adjustments with a new. longer v belt.. For the Intek or Snow King I just have to drill new mounting holes and move the chute feed so that it clears the housing, and another user has sent me a picture of what he did with his - he added a bracket and a u-joint.

Hi Guys!

Garandman- Take a look at the B&S 20D4140017 or 0019 (different shaft sizes). These are  OHV Snow Inteks WITH cast iron bores. If your Ariens has a 24 inch auger or more this would be a great choice. Simplicity is using an Aluminum bore variant of this engine on their 24" to 32" Pro Models.  

If you go with power other than a direct replacement Tecumsh you are going to have to fiddle with mounting holes,belt size and maybe moving the chute linkage.

Another way would be to find a new short block for the existing engine. Less of a problem for installation and you get to use your "old" style adjustable jet carb.

 If you replace with a new Tecumseh L head see if you can use your old carb on that application as the new fixed jet carbs are a pain in the a$$.

Marc   

The short block  for the 5 hp H50 is available, for around $200. I could also recondition the one I have. But I'd like more power so that I can throw snow a bit farther and run in second gear more often. With the current (old) engine I have to run in 1st for anything more than 5-6" of powder or even less if the snow is at all heavy or wet. It seems to me it didn't do a lot better when it was newer. The crankshaft is in the same location and the shaft is the same diameter (or I'd go with a 8hp!) and the new mounting holes aren't any big deal. All I need is one flat sheet metal bracket and a U-joint to change the chute handle - a guy who has done this (with an OHSK70) sent me pictures.

I'm thinking that a new 7.5 hp engine has to be more powerful than a reconditioned L-head 5 hp. Given the small cost differential between the two options the new engine seems attractive. I could buy another used Ariens 7hp and sell mine for only about a $50 delta but thought that going with a new engine was more attractive since I can sell the running 5hp on eBay or the like. I could also buy a 24" 8hp but they weigh more and that wouldn't be helpful for the manuevering I have to do.

Tough call, Garandman.  Sounds like you will have to do some fabricating regardless of engine used.  The B&S Intek  would be the engine of choice.  Don't let the numbers fool you. It WILL perform well.

Although..................replacing that machine with a newer one, that could receive a new engine, more easily if needed, is an option you can't ignore.  You may be able to find one that you could get many years of service from, and recoup some cost by selling the old one as is.  There always seems to be someone looking for something to tinker with.

As far as rebuilding goes,IMHO, they usually don't last all that long  that you feel you got your moneys worth.

Ken

Garandman,

Why not go with a Tec OHV 7HP.

With that , I don't  think you would have any bolt up, or foot print  problems.

                                                                  Fred     

jubol wrote:

I agree.  I don't know for sure, but that engine would seem to be the least fuss to install and more HP to boot!

Ken

The amount of work required to replace the H50 with the Tecumseh OHSK70 or the Briggs & Stratton Intek Snow 7.5 is identical. In both cases (and the Honda, and most engines of this size, it turns out) have the same 3/4" shaft mounted at the same height.  I have pictures of both the Snow King and Intek Snow mounted on the same blower from folks who have done it. The local Honda dealer has an employee who mounted a GX200 on the same one, to boot, but I have not seen that one.

  All of them (and me) were interested in keeping the same extraordinarily robust old Ariens but with a more modern engine. The Honda is more expensive but has 10 ft lbs of torque compared to 6.5 for the B&S. That's a big increase. The Tecumseh torque value is unknown: only answer I've gotten is "same as the Intek Snow."

 Garandman,

I think the Tec engine mount holes are the same on the 7HP as your present 5.

Briggs will require drilling new engine mount holes, with the Tec, bolt it on.

Also check out, Tulsa Engine Warehouse, as they have the drawings of the engines,both Briggs and Tec's, with bolt patterns.                                          

                                                                                                         Fred    

The new Tecumseh has the same size bolt pattern - but it's in a different location. The shaft height is the same for all of them. I have a picture a guy sent me that shows the relationship between the old and new. I took the drawings and made a dimensional cutout to see how the replacements would fit, and have pictures of my exact model with a Snow King and an Intek.  The exact same amount of work is required to fit any of the new engines. The exact same amount of work is required to fit any of the new engines.  The exact same amount of work is required to fit any of the new engines.......

I don't need electric start, so hunting around online including ePay, the best delivered prices I have so far:

Tecumseh HMSK 70 w/ 3/4" shaft - $255.
B&S Intek Snow 7.5 w/ 3/4" shaft - $240.
Honda GX200 w/ 3/4" shaft - $355.

Small Engine Warehouse seems to have the best prices overall, and folks who have done busines with them seem satisfied.

Garandman wrote:

Prices really drop sharply when you don't purchase an engine with the lighting alternator or 110 volt electric starter.  I'd go with the Intec.  If that engine performs as good as it looks, you'll have a winner. 

  Garandman,

If it is the same work for all, I agree with Richie, go with the Briggs Intek.

It should make one heck of a difference.

Also I think you are going to have to change your pulleys , because of the increased HP.

You will be going from a 5 to a 7.5 which is 150% of original!

                                                               Fred 

Another option online.   http://engine4less.com/shop/customer/home.php?cat=357

                                                                                                                         Kevin

SnowPro wrote:
That would be simplest, and probably cheapest. But least entertaining.

I have some nostalgic attachment to this unit as my dad bought it new in 1970. It's been extremely well cared for and maintained with new parts as apropriate and is overbuilt in a way modern design science doesn't accomodate. 

None of this makes economic sense. I use this thing 3-8 times a year to clear voluntarily clear sidwalks that I'm not obliged to clear - I just do it to be nice to some neighbors who are elderly, single moms, etc.  Las year I used it twice. So it's mostly for entertainment value.  The used market is pretty well developed around here - $200 to $250 for an old 5hp, $250 to $350 for an old 7hp. The 8hp often sell for less because they're heavier and harder to handle. Newer ones sell for $400 to 600.

The 10 ft lbs of torque on the Honda is appealing. I could paint it  white like the old Tecumseh and cause great puzzlement amongst owners of newer equipment. The folks I've spoken with who've "hot-rodded" them with large frame engines have regretted it because of the need for a different length v-belt and other changes. But the Intek is reasonably priced and may produce as much as 9 ft lbs of torque, so that looks like a prett nice choice. Having something that pollutes less is a good thing, as well.

I bought a B&S Intek Snow 7.5 with electric start & alternator. 

B&S was the most helpful in giving advice about the transplant; the engine seems to perform well; and they have a two year warranty. Tecumseh was responsive but didn't have the pictures and directions B&S offered. Honda would not offer any advice at all and referred me to a local dealer, who quoted me $499 for a GX200. He'd put an 8hp Honda on his Ariens but that's a more difficult change because the crankshaft is a different height. I never got a square answer as to what changes would be required to use a Honda on a snowblower.

Since I had to send the blower housing out for welding anyway, I cut off the bracket for the auger crank handle and will have it welded on to facilitate adding the u-joints required with the new engine. My blower is not the one shown (that's a B&S picture, I believe, but on the smallenginewarehouse site) but is otherwise the same model, so the OHV engine would interfere.

I'm changing the friction disk while I'm waiting, repainting everything, changing to Snow Hog tires, etc.  I bought the Duplicolor Chevy Orange DE1620 as suggested by Itzbinnace, and it does seem to be a perfect match for Ariens Orange.

Here's the new and the old.

Imagine my surprise after  hearing from various sources that this change was difficult or impossible (local dealer) to see that the new engine mounts perfectly on the old studs for the H50. They're too short and will have to be drilled out and  longer bolts used, but everything will bolt right on.

A  couple of ujoints for the chute crank and we'll be done!

i have swapped a lot of the 10 and 11 inteks for old tecumseh.

havent had many problems with the swap.in fact we usually do it for the old engine.

we sell the iginition and carbs and make a few bucks here and there.

the ariens is sometimes a bit more time ,like you said you will have to modify the chute crank.but its not to bad .and wow what a machine you have when your done.

later chris 

Reminds me of an Escalade sitting next to an old Dart. 

Congrats, that's going to be a great set up when you're finished.

Only one little four barrel.



Now that's a snowblower engine.



Garandman, People love those Inteks. You should be real happy. Don't forget the pics of the conversion if you can. It should be great.

Garandman wrote:

It doesn't seem like you left a message, ut here's the completed machine.

Just saw this part of your message.

[quote]I just bought a used Ariens just like the picture that you posted.  The model # and serial # were cut off of it so I am not able to figure out the best matching model number for this blower.  You said you have one along the same line, mine matches the picture exactly, does yours?  If it does, would you give me the specs of it along with Model # so I can look up more information about it?  It's a very clean machine with a tired motor and some light carb work that needs to be done.  I am also debating about changing motors or repairing the one I have.  I have found some really good engine prices online and compared to fixing the existing engine, it is much more worthwhile just to buy a new one.[/quote]

Have to add another post because the Moderators (who must be strange people indeed) removed the ability to edit posts......

The engine is a 7.5hp Intek Snow with a 3/4" shaft and electric start. The shaft was a little longer than requird on the one I bought as a "scratch and dent" special - I cut it off with a hacksaw. I had to drill out the old studs and replace them with longer bolts. I have a personal website with more pictures and details, PM me if you need more info.

Here's a comparison between the new OHV Intek and old H50.



Because I bought an 8hp Ariens I haven't actually used this one yet. I'm bringing it to my brother in  a week or so. He has a teenager to wring it out.

Garandman wrote:

Wow, you did a nice job at cleaning that machine up.  Looks brand spanky new!  I believe mine is pretty much the same exact model, could you tell me the Ariens model number of yours?  So you went 7.5HP Intek, I am still debating on which engine to put into my frame.  I was hoping to go to at least an 8.5 or 9.5HP motor but need to be careful that the internal components can handle it. 

Mind if I ask the website where you got your engine from?  I remember seeing those "scratch and dent" ones, but didn't save the link.

Thanks!

pcardone wrote:


The blower unit is 10995.

The 8.5+ hp engines have the shaft in a different location and as this unit only has one blet, you're pushing it.

I bought it at Small Engine Warehouse.

Garandman wrote:

Thank you!!  You answered questions that I wasn't able to find yet.  So basically I should prob go the same route you did, Intek 7.5 and make the linkage arm for the chute.  I could prob go to 8HP without a problem but no higher. 

Awesome!  Thank you for all the help!!!

Ariens snowblower engine upgrade.  High performance Ariens snowblower.

Check out this work in progress.  Upgrading from a 6 HP Tecumseh to an 11 HP Honda!

Had to relocate the motor mount studs.  Needs a custom pulley as the new engine has a 1" dia shaft.

5" OD cast iron pulley on order from McMaster-Carr.  More Later...

Dans wrote:
Wow!  wish I could listen and see this snow eater!!! Good job pal keep the good work

Nice, I'd like to see what you're going to do for the chute control. I've been toying with the idea of using a stepper motor, I think that would be cool.

Professor,

The stepper idea sounds good.  I had been planning on using the old crank with a 3/8" socket set universal welded in line to make the turn up from under the engine to the handlebars.  I like your idea-it eliminates a lot of cranking back and forth.  You may be interested in a similar idea from utube-it's awesome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBL3GxBduyU

I'm still waiting for my new engine pulley.

Regards, Steve

This might work for you if you didn't buy the pulley yet: Ebay Item number: 320177893719. Also, Garandman bought his universal joints from McMaster-Carr ~$12 each.

Save money on universal joints!!

Go to a used hand tool shop and buy socket wrench universals.

I bought 2 for a dollar when I mounted a new engine on my buddies snowblower!!

Works great!

                                 Fred

The new pulley arrived today.  It is installed on the shaft along with a longer belt.  The original engine is shown for a side by side comparison.  Note the increased size of the engine pulley.  I am looking at incorporating a "Dead Man"  belt tensioner as the auger and wheel drives on these old Ariens keep going if you let go of the handle bars while blowing snow.  Thanks for your tips and suggestions.

6HP Tecumseh and 11HP Honda

It looks like the new pulley is at least double the size of the old one. That means the auger and impeller will be going over twice as fast. While this means the snow will be thrown faster and further it also means there is a lot more stress being put on the entire auger/impeller system. You will probably get a great deal of vibration and things will wear out pretty fast. Try using the lowest gear possible for the traction system or you might be running after a snow bazooka. Make sure you're no "aiming" at anything important.

Excellent point Nibbler. Dans the engine pulley on my similar Ariens is 2.5" in diameter matched to a 9" drive pulley that reduces the 3600rpm of the motor to 1000rpm for the impeller. By using only a 2.75" pulley the angular frequency of the impeller increases to 1100rpm, a 10% increase. Match that 10% with your 11HP (wow) and you should achieve very good distance. Please keep us up to date.

According to a previous post the new pulley has an OD of 5" as opposed to the probable 2.5" of the original. That means the auger rakes are running at about double their designed for speed. Add in the extra horsepower and there might be a problem with the auger system being too powerful and fast.

The other thing to note is that the final RPM reduction occurs in the worm gear that converts the front to back axis of rotation into a left to right axis of rotation. I'd be afraid of an auger running at 1000RPM although you wouldn't need an impeller for a second stage boost.

With a 2.5" pulley the impeller runs at 1000rpm, there is a 10:1 ratio for the auger, therefore auger turns at 100rpm. BTW a 3" engine pulley would increase speeds by 20%. probably the max. that can be achieved without too many problems as nibble mentioned above 5" pulley means impeller runs at 2000rpm way too fast. please note that I am no OPE expert.

nice

Dans, how's the engine swap going? I'm curious b/c I'll be doing the same in the spring, in the time being I’m looking on eBay for a good deal on the engine.

Garandman,

Sent you a PM.  Would like to do exactly what you did with your 70's Ariens.