Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Well........finally getting around to starting a thread on this impeller mod for the snowblower.  Perhaps a little late in the season, but it will give us something to talk about!  In light of the recent thread about plastic liners, I thought I should get this started.

I have to admit that when I first heard of this, I was a little skeptical at first.  Sounded interesting but as with most mods, they are usually more hype than improvement.  Some had been telling me about it and said that it made a real improvement.  Yeah, right.  I checked out the web site and, have to admit, I was being drawn in.  Clarence lives in the same city as I do, so this gave me some more interest in checking it out.  Still back burner though.

So.........one day we are out doing driveways and this occasional client that lives across the street from my client sees that I am having a little trouble with the slush getting plugged up in the machine.  He tells me that he just got the kit installed on his machine and is going to give it a try.  Now I know how his machine performs usually, as I have seen him do his driveway  many times over the years, so this should be interesting.  Well, the next thing I know, is that I almost wet myself!   He was blowing that slush out of his machine like it was being shot from a cannon!  Now we all know that slush usually goes about 2 feet, so seeing  this stuff fly 20+ feet was nothing short of unbelievable.  We tried some snow with it and it was going 30-40 feet.  Normally his machine throws about 20-30 feet.  By the next day, I was over at Clarence's and getting it installed on one of my machines, to check it out for myself.  I have NEVER looked back.  Now, ALL of my machines have been fitted.  My favourite machine is an MTD Pro 13/33 (1986) , with the 13 hp B&S engine, and it will honestly throw snow 50-60 feet!    The Ariens and other MTDs have been fitted too.

ABSOLUTELY no snow or slush will slow down this kit! EVERYTHING that goes in, will come out!  EXCEPTIONS include: newspapers and extention cords!  Havn't picked up a squirrel yet!

Most kits now have roughly 2000 times on them now and the belting is holding up quite well. I see no need for any replacement yet.

Installation will require medium skill, I guess, as you will have to remove the chute and drill the impeller to install the kit.  You are working through the opening for the chute. 

For the first several times you use your machine, the sound will be quite different as the rubber will be dragging slightly on the housing until it gets worn in.  THAT MEANS THAT IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE PAINT COMING OFF OF THE IMPELLER HOUSING, THEN THIS KIT IS NOT FOR YOU!  It will make the metal quite shiny, I must say.  BUT, if that is not a big deal for you, then the perfoermance upgrade will be more than a fair trade off.  Other than the paint coming off, the metal is not being worn out.  With all the use that my machines get,  they are still in fine shape.  With typical homeowner use, you should still get 50 years out of your machine.

So........which machines are likely candidates?  I would say every 2 stage machine out there, with the exception of Hondas and Yamahas.  They already have a tight gap between the impeller and the housing and would not show any improvement.

Clarence is a super guy and I send all of my equipment to him now, (that I can't fix) for repairs.

Hope this helps.

Got any questions............fire away!

Ken

PS Thanks for the push.............Fred!

Snowpro--Man that does me good that you got something that works that well.  eing from the deep south, I know nothing about snowblowers but from your descrioption of the project,  you really  got lan improvement in performance.   Glad for you and may the rest of your day go well---Your friend--Will

Sounds good.  I know I saw a thread on this before.  What is the name of the kit and could you possibly provide a link to the website?

  Al,

Email me: fonions@ comcast,net

I'll send you the info you want.

                        Fred  

I have one of Clarence's kits on my MTD. It made a modest improvement with throwing powery snow, but it made a significant difference with throwing slushy, wet snow. With our last dumping of wet snow, I finally was able to get my chute to clog up - but the impeller drum area was clear. I TOO, RECOMMEND ONE on ANY 2 stage machine...

Marty

PS - Clarence is VERY knowledgeable & helpful with installation if needed, & also a helluva nice guy...

Clarence's site

My advise is, if you are considering them, don't make your own. Just buy them.

 Rob,

Nice going!!!!

             Fred    

I got stuck between a slush storm and a weekend, so I looked on Clarence's site and confered with someone who has the impeller kit to make my own. The concept works really well. As I found out the materials used are real important. I used what I had and they did not hold up. So now I am on version two, but have not had a chance to use it yet. That's why I say to just buy it if you want to use them. The PITA that is involved with the R&D is not worth the 30 bucks. Clarence already did the testing for you.

My MTD was real easy to do. In addition to taking off the chute, I could remove a portion of the impeller housing. The impeller on the MTD is made of a fly's wing so it was very easy to drill. And the modification does work very well in less than perfect conditions. Most anything can blow powder, even an MTD. Now my MTD can blow slush too. I hate to say, but better than some orange and red machines on my street. How long my machine will last is another question.

we have an ancient murry at work with one of those in ,might be different brand.

serviced the machine and took it outside to try ...boss thought i was crazy and even said why it cant work in this wet heavy snow.we has about 6 inches of real wet stuff almost slush.

it was unbeliveable.never saw anything blow that kind of snow as well as that.

im sure it would do good on a newer machine as well.

later chris

From what I have seen of the newer machines, they need it the most!  As manufacturing gets sloppier to keep the price down,  I have noticed that the gap between the impeller and the housing is getting larger all the time!  The need to make up for this  downward turn, is sadly becoming ever more important.  I have noticed that the impeller blades are getting smaller too.  How are they supposed to throw the snow, fed from the auger, with those tiny things?

I think that a common thread on this site, since I have been around, has been the ability to handle slush.  This kit will make up for that.  Powder just becomes a LOT more fun!

I knew there were a couple of guys here that had the kit too, but I couldn't remember who.  Glad to see you posted!

Ken

I installed clarence's kit last April on my  MTD 10.5 HP Blower.

I never got to try it on slush, but on heavy EOD and powder, I gained about 20% in throw distance!!

I just bought a new blower, and I am going to install the kit on it this summer ( late August ) because it really helps to blow snow!!!

                                                                   Fred    

I wonder how the kit wold work on the newer PowerMax Toros.  There is a plastic part on the top of the auger housing that (for lack of a better way to say it) holds snow that's waiting to hit the impeller, so the housing is not smooth and continuous except for the chute opening.  Also, the impeller itself is not solid and flat but has an open center (also for the lack of a better way to say it).

LL

lland wrote:

That's one that  I am curious about too.  Toro has been the only one to really change the design of the snowblower, in the last 30 years or so.  I have only seen one machine in use that has this new design, and it was doing a great job, under good conditions.

I am going to go an take a look at them and see.  I think I'll call Clarence and see if he has had any come in for the upgrade.

Ken

lland wrote:

Hi lland,

I was going to purchase the kit myself last week and decided to look over my Toro more carefully to see how it would be installed.  After doing this, I decided to pass on the kit.   The impeller tips are only 1/8" distance from the housing, which isn't much at all.  Also, the impeller tips are a little different on these new Toro's and are actually 4-1/4" wide.  From say, 3-3/4" to 4-1/4" the tips are tapered at a 45 degree angle to further aid in lift, similar to the tips on a mulching lawn mower.  Even if you used the 3" wide rubber paddles from the kit, a good part of the impeller would have to be left as is, especially due to the added bracing you may have noticed on the tip ends.  I'm not saying the kit would not make a difference on a Toro, merely that I don't believe it would yield some of the better results that have been mentioned due to the already optimized design on this particular snowblower. 

If you look on the inside top of the auger housing, as you mentioned, it makes it very obvious why this snowblower can throw snow so far even if the snow is only 1" deep and moving only in 1st gear.  The design is optimized already whether used for 1" or high amounts of snow.  Any snow that gets drawn in by the auger, that is more than the impeller can handle, it immediately gets drawn up into that large recess and metered back down when the impeller is able to discharge it.  I'd also have to say that those angled impeller blade tips definitely aid in throwing wet snow.  I still have not been able to clog the chute on this machine no matter what I do to it. 

That kit is a great idea, but I believe it would make more of a different on a snowblower that has something like 1/4" spacing between the impeller tips and the housing. 

Richie wrote:

Richie..........
Great review of the inner workings of the Toro impeller setup.  I agree with you, 1/8" clearance is fantastic!  You would not see any improvement in performance.  The whole idea is to move ALL snow in the impeller area OUT.  With that "cutout", you are correct in stating that any excess snow will be metered back in, so that the impeller is always fully loaded, making it more efficient.

Sadly, most machines made today have a spacing closer to 1"  leaving a LOT of snow in the impeller housing to just get clogged and tossed about.  Very inefficient.  But, cheaper to make.

Ken

  Richie,

My new Husky only has 1/4 clearence from the impeller to the housing. I'm still going to install it.

For $30.00, if it only improves performance 10%, it is a cheap mod!!

But I l think the kit would improve the blowers performance more, even Toro's about 10% dry snow, and at least 25% in slush.

Can you think of a water pump being used with a 1/4 inche gap all the way around (total 1/2) on the diameter.

It would not pump crap!!!

Anything done to reduce that gap, has to improve performance.

Also the impeller rubber and metal are 3 1/2 inches long., which would do the Toro's flat area. 

                                                                                     Fred  

Is there a kit that I can use on one stage blower?

jubol wrote:

Exactly!  When I said 1" earlier, I ment 1" on one side! That's 2"  of space total!

When I looked at those new MTDs and Murrays, my honest opinion was that they were junk!

Ken

walbroman wrote:

No.  If the rubbers are worn, you will have to replace them.  On the Honda that I have, they actually wern't that much money.

Ken

Question on danger when installing these things.  I know everyone will have the plug out no gas etc etc.  But when you look on clarences site he was talking about finger loss.  In a hurry here so no time to direct quote.  Maybe he was talking about compression backlash or something maybe some type of tension backlash from a pulley system  or the auger break still holding back force, don know? .  When clearing snow from the chute  I won't reach in there to save my life, however i don't carry a cleanout either.   Just curious what to tell other users when they think it is safe say just the machine off naturally not engaged as they are going to have to walk around the front of the machine etc.  is there a chance if they reach in there to clean  it something could happen.  I always assume there is a chance so I don't do it,  however I get close.

Thx 

Ben07

SnowPro wrote:

Hi there Ken,

Thank you.   I also couldn't believe what I read in your post that some snowblowers have up to 1" of space between the impeller tips and the housing, holy cow, that is way, way too much  Those individuals should really thank Clarence for inovating such a great and practical component to improve one's snowblower.  I actually believed most other snowlblowers usually had about 1/4" spacing.  It really rubs me the wrong way how some manufacturers skimp on R&D.  Thanks for the information.

jubol wrote:

Hi there Fred,

I think you are making the correct choice since you have a 1/4" space.  If mine was that wide, I would have gone with it.   I would definitely install it and expect to make a noticable difference on your Husky.  It was also my understanding that the paddles come in two different widths, 3" and 4."  Yes, I'm sure the 4" wide version I'd be able to trim down to the actual size required for my Toro, but to make a modification like this just to add 1/8" to my impeller tips doesn't seem worth it to me.  If someone with a similar snowblower makes the modification and can notice a difference, I'd consider doing it.  I've never had a problem with this machine blowing any type of snow.  I think all this 828 LXE needs is a Briggs & Stratton Intek engine.  Then I'd feel like I have the ultimate snowblower. 

Richie,

Thanks...I didn't measure the impellers but figured the kit wound't work as well with the redesigned Toros.  As is, it does a decent job of throwing slushy stuff so I'll keep it the way it is.

LL

I saw this mod online and he wanted $30 plus $8.95 shipping. I went to my local Family Center (tractor/farming store) and purchased a foot of hay baler belt and the brackets and bolts for $6.41.

I had to replace the belt on my MTD 5/22 anyway so I took off the 6 bolts that hold the auger body to the body. I took off the chute and placed the whole unit on a bench. I used a long board to stick through the auger which held the impeller in place.

The whole process was quite easy and took about 40 minutes. The trick is sharp drill bits. I started with a small bit to get the two bolt holes lined up then used the larger one to finish the hole to the correct size for the bolts.

Fired up the blower and let the rubber wear to the size and shape needed.

Now I await the first snow. of course, none in the forcast. :)

Lannie

PS The gap on my impeller was over a half inch!! No wonder it plugs a lot. Cant wait to try it.

lschafroth

Ischafroth,

   >>hay baler belt<<, I don't know the stuff but it sounds perfect and strong.

   I've had a number of the MTD 522's around and they are nice.   Arm extenders on that machine would be interesting.  Please come back and update how it worked.

I had that kit once on my blower and it shoot snow good but it takes much power on engine and gear case so far it gives a premature used parts. I dont recommended, why manufacture doesn't put them on their machine? well security question: if you grab a piece of rock it will jammed between the impeller and the auger and the engine will quit but with the kit it will go away somewhere on a car windshield or whatever in a somebody faces ??? think about it

trouts2 wrote:
Well I posted that no snow was in the forecast.  We were supposed to get a dusting here in Iowa and Minnesota shared with us instead!  We got 8 inches and 50mph wind gusts. ugh.

Fired it up yesterday morning and now I have a new problem with the snow blower.  My neighbor's porch now has snow in it!!  wow does it throw the snow!!  The true test will be wet snow but its way too cold for that.  We are having a high of 11 today.

Anyway, it blows the snow farther than it ever has.  very cool and well worth it so far.

Lannie

PS Hay baler belt is a durable rubber with a layer of string all through it so it never gets too hard in cold but is very very strong.

I am on year three of using the Clarence Impeller Kit.  My machine is a Craftsman 28" with a Briggs engine.  Some people responded to a YouTube video I put up of the thing in action saying the kit causes added stress on the gears and will cause premature wear.  So far, knock on wood, I have had NO problems.  Let me tell you, that beast throws the snow clear into the neighbors yard!  And the comments about slush are absolutely true - the thing just fires that end-of-driveway slush out. 

My review is a thumbs up for the kit! 

ISCHAFROTH (wrote) Fired it up yesterday morning and now I have a new problem with the snow blower. My neighbor's porch now has snow in it!! wow does it throw the snow!! The true test will be wet snow but its way too cold for that. We are having a high of 11 today. Anyway, it blows the snow farther than it ever has. very cool and well worth it so far. CAN YOU PLEASE POST PICS WHEN YOU HAVE A CHANCE ??

You can check out a video of the kit in action at       http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=FIM-dmutqKI

After reading several posts about the Clarence Impeller Kit, I decided to install one on my 2007 Ariens 926LE Deluxe snowblower.

What motivated me to do so is that my snowblower has outstanding performance in powder snow, but on the other hand, its performance in wet snow is to say least very poor i.e. throwing distance of 3 to 4 feet and a lot of jamming. The impeller gap to the housing is not uniform; it is about 1/4" at the center and about 3/8" at the edges of the impeller.

So last weekend I installed the 4 blade / 3” wide kit (the 3" wide kit is perfect for this machine as it just fits the flat section of the impeller) and it took me about 2-3 hours to complete the installation. I started by positioning the impeller at 90° and I used a punch to mark the centre of the middle bolt so that the drill bit would not slip, then I installed the blade, and then used the blade as a guide to drill the remaining holes. Everything went smoothly.

I could not wait to test the kit and fortunately we got 4" of wet snow 3 days later. The results are outstanding: this machine now throws wet snow, slush and water!!! at about 40 feet. This is impressive. I was scared to throw snow on the neighbour's driveway and car. So I'm very satisfied with the kit.

While reading other posts I noticed that some concerns have been raised about this kit and I would like to provide my opinion.

One of the main concern is that this kit will produce premature wear on the motor and belt. I do not believe this. With this kit installed whatever snow that comes in the bucket goes out. Before installing this kit, wet snow accumulated until a jam occurred and engine almost stalled. My conclusion is that there is a lot more stress on the impeller and belt when the snow accumulates until the engine almost stalls. Less snow going out = more show in the bucket = more stress on the machine. With the kit installed, the engine is forcing, mainly due to weight of the wet snow, but is never near to stall. This answers this concern by itself.

The second concern is that in the case one blade of the kit brakes then it would be ejected, causing potential injuries. I do not think that is worst than blowing pieces of ice that are present at the end of the driveway. Also for this problem to happen all three bolts would need to break at the same time.

The last concern was that small rocks could jam between the impeller and the housing. I think that with this kit installed small rocks can not go between the impeller and the housing as there is no more gap. Rocks will simply be ejected with the snow.

/SnowStorm

The kit I installed on my old JD TRX26 a couple years ago turned it into a snow hog!!!!   I love the "new" old machine.....

Hi all,

I am considering installing an impeller on my Ariens Platinum 30. Been reading some comments that people believe it will cause premature wear. I am thinking that I would hear that extra "strain" in the motor and would work the motor no harder than normal, so my belief is that it would have no effect on the longevity of the machine. Would that be a logical assumption or am I way off base here?

GC

Engines that see even minimum levels of maintenance usually outlast the chassis they're mounted on.   Why do you need an impeller kit?  Isn't the Ariens throwing well enough?   My stock Simplicity bombs snow like a 9 h.p. Honda.

borat wrote:

I am considering the impeller kit. Not positive. I haven't used the new blower enough to know if I need it yet. It throws fine. I am just thinking that if I can improve performance for 30 bucks with no detriment to the machine, then I just might do it. I would need to be absolutely sure that it isn't going to damage the machine first.

Yeah I've seen the Simplicity blowers around. They are certainly good machines!! Those I know who have them speak highly of them.

GC

GreatCanadian wrote:
First check the gap between your impeller and the housing.  If it's less than 1/4", adding an impeller kit would not gain anything except pumping slush and water.

Considering your machine is fairly new design, I would think that Ariens have "closed the gap" between their models and the Honda/Yamaha competition.  

aa335 wrote:

Right on. The impeller kit closes the gap when it's too big. If your gap isn't too big it's not going to do enough to make it worth it.

I have installed an impeller kit (home made) on my Ariens Platinum 24 (2010 model).  I can tell you that it does improve the throw distance and slush capability a bit, but probably not nearly as much as on some of the older machines.  Would I do it again?  Yes, because I seem to always want to fix things that aren't broken  .   But it's a bit of work and don't expect miracles out of it on these newer machines.

GreatCanadian wrote:
I'm sure your Ariens works fines in powder snow. What I would consider before installing the Clarence kit, is if you are satisfied with how it works in wet snow and slush.

If your machine currently plugs when throwing wet snow, then longevity will be improved. A lot of stress is put on the machine when it plugs, as snow don't come out but still comes in. The result is that more and more snow (and weight) accumulates in the housing putting stress on engine, belt, and auger gear case.

When the wet stuff comes out the load (weight of snow) is less.

/SnowStorm

snowstorm wrote:

Hi Snowstorm,

I have thrown some heavy snow (quite heavy in fact, but I wouldn'g go so far as to call it slush) - although I did test it on the cul-de-sac where the snow was thick and gray with salt, and it threw it on top of the 15 foot high pile of snow in the middle of the cul-de-sac with ease. The 342 cc engine seems to be powerful enough. It hasn't even come close to clogging. So perhaps I don't need the kit. Might have to wait til next year to find out. Seems like winter is fading here (at least storm wise). 

GC

GreatCanadian wrote:
Even a Honda snowblower can clog, although rarely happens unless I overdrive it faster than it can pump out snow.    In this case, I rather have more cc and hp so that the impeller tip speed is maintained high, rather than slowing down and churning around slowly like homemade ice cream.

Not sure how wide your snowblower is, but 342cc on a bucket 30 inches or less is a good healthy combination.  If the impeller kit is a magic sauce for modern 2 stage snowblower, it's a shame that none of the manufacturers have equipped it from the factory.

If the snowblower can't handle wet heavy snow, you'll know for sure.  No need for a solution go looking for problem.

Not to dissuade you from modding, but it seems this is a project that is high on effort, low on gain.

aa335 wrote:
Thanks to all for your responses.

jrtrebor is right. If your impeller has too much clearance, check if it is equal all the way round. It should at least be less that 3/16" in the area shown in my "drawing".

Just measured. It's a full 1/4 inch space...perhaps a touch more.

GC