Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hi guys,

Called Briggs with the spec # on the Simplicity I am looking at . The guy was very nice!! Called me back and spent a lot of time  but couldn't find the exact # I gave him. He said he was 90% sure the spec# I gave him  is an aluminum bore engine. What he was able to give me was the Phone # for Simplicity which I couldn't get on Friday. For you Simplicity fans the #is (262)284-8669.Hit 2 on your phone after you get through to get to the tech dept. Real interesting conversation with that gentleman.

1)All the engines in the large frame line are the same except for the 13hp unit."If you buy the the 9560E,1060DLXE,1170Eor 1280E you get the same engine."

When I asked him why he said it's more cost effective to power everything with the 12hp engine than to buy different engines for each model. He was very specific about saying the engine is the 12. The stickers are different.

2)" All the engines are aluminum bore models because they are the same engine" Simplicity chose to go with aluminum bore because they run cooler and in an environment absent of dust and dirt the cast iron isn't necessary.Today"s Aluminum alloys wear very well under winter conditions according to their tests."

3)"I should consider using the Briggs synthetic oil because it doubles  the life of the warranty. There is a chemical dye in the oil that colors the internal parts of the engine. If you have a failure they check for the color and you get a replacement." Sounds like a good deal to me.

4)He suggested using Simplicity part #1704636 to lubricate the gearbox. Infomed me that it is really a Snapper lubricant and that when Simplicity bought Snapper they found it worked very well. Said it doesen't thicken in the cold as much as other gear oils.

I pressed him a little on the aluminum bore issue reminding him that Simplicity used cast iron bore Tecumsehs before Briggs bought the company. He said that the purchase by Briggs had nothing to do with it.Simplicity started using Briggs three years ago when the Snow Intek first came out. He reminded me this was before Simplicity was bought by Briggs.When I asked him why the change he said there were too many issues with the Tecumseh carburetors .

 I went to the Briggs web site and spent some time looking at their replacement engine spec. book. Sure enough there are 9,10 and 11 hp. engines of the same displacement. To further confuse/enlighten me they listed engines of the same horse power that have different displacements.And to further confuse the issue Briggs does not list a 12 hp engine. 

I have a headache,

Marc

mml4 wrote:

Hi Guys-

I started this thread on Feb.21 as a report of the conversation with Simplicity trying to find out if they were using Aluminum or cast iron bore engines! If you remember that was my original issue. Who would have thought it would have gone in  this direction?

What we have done in this thread is to become enlightened and informed consumers. We now know how to judge which machine we purchase and the role HP should play in that decision.

It is arguable as to whether or not the 1280E is not good value. It may not be for a homeowner who figures a few more passes is no big deal when looking at the price differential. But what about a school custodian who is trying to clear the bus entrance and parking area before the kids arrive? The extra width means a lot to him. Bet he is willing to pay for it. Remember we are speaking of commercial machines not the intermediate units designed for the home. In addition no one has complained that the units are under powered no matter which frame they are in.

Maybe I am too accepting of these practices but I don't believe the manufacturers are trying to defraud us. They are faced with trying to explain to an engine loving public that once you have enough power engines are not an issue. I believe that the use of the same power keeps the price of the entire line down. This is a good thing ,no? 

Finally ,OPE should be advertised and promotional literature printed that stresses the frame and options and lists the power as guaranteed to be adequate.

Marc  

Keep in mind gentlemen this is a chance for a 2-FER

Good point Max427 ,(is that a chevy or a ford 427?)  I will have to think that one over, actually I will hope for someone more of an expert to answer it.

What I want to point out.  Is there is an opportunity here for any of you power enthusiasts. to get some more power at minimal cost. May be a good time to buy a different machine while the extra horsepower could be a deal.

My personal experience with this is.  I think I have a new machine that is Downlabeled.  I am not sure in writing yet.  but the point I would like to make is it can really go almost (and I stress almost) unnoticable under normal snowfalls,  like 8 inch or below.  

However when you get into like a foot or more.  The display of the horsepower  is incredable.  I am running a labeled 8.5 tec that seems to run like a 11/12 minimum.  I stated this before a lot of this was brought up. I am no expert, but I didn't fall off a tree yesterday either. 

And if it is true .  It is a great advantage,  because the machine doesn't tear itself apart under normal snowfalls,  you know I am not rocking and rolling coming up to the line at a drag race,  but when it needs the extra power, it doesn't hesitate.  I almost feel I bought two machines  for the price of 1 actually 2 for the price of 2/3 because of it being a no frills machine , as that is a model that they sold at home depot and discounted the heck out of it/

Ben07

hi guys and girls (Paula, Sherri any others im unaware of)

Marshall did a good thing actually making the call to the briggs boys...ive done that but havent gotten a return on my calls.

and Marc.you made some very good points about the way this new generation of snowblowers should be sold.

with this new  briggs engine on the snappers that we sell ,horsepower is no longer an issue.

we test every one on the lawn and some times they are blowing in snow thats a foot deeper that the bucket.

and you never even hear the engine strain,governor dosent even kick in.

power no prob.

it now is the rest of the machine.

how easy will it turn ...

good weight balance...

is the headlight any good...

are the handlebars flimsy or wrong height,how about adjustable height.

does it shift easy.

are repairs like belts and bushings very hard or do you spend an hour and a half putting an impeller belt in.

this is the stuff that should now be an issue.

you may have come up with a good idea Marc...well done  

later chris

I have to disagree with the idea of selling a 12 hp engine to a consumer and labeling it 33 percent lower.  That is rediculous and what they are going to find out is it actually is a safety issue.  All somebody has to do is get hurt or hurt someone when using one of these downlabeled things and the Lawyers will clean house,  Wether it is true or warranted or not.  Leagally they will be liable.  If people can make millions of dollars on McDonalds coffee being too hot,  when all coffee has been server that way for hundreds of years  , got to make you think it is possable.

Then to boot have workers use a misbadged machine on the job and get hurt  OSHA will have a field day.

Ben07

Well,
It looks as though through many of your good detective skills you have discovered a great scam here.......
While those who bought a lower hp unit are now pleased to find that they bought more then they thought they did, others who may have bought the higher HP model solely based on wanting the most power they could get have been ripped off.
Now it is true that they bought other features with that unit that MAY justify the price difference, IF their buying decision was based on HP, they were deceived.

It looks like I dodged the bullet here somewhat because the Tec 13hp supposedly is NOT in this group,  BUT, even with the Ariens, if the 9-11.5 HP are really 12hp engines mislabeled, then perhaps the ONLY difference between the 11.5 and the 13hp Ariens Pro is the 4" width and ONE hp.

Now, for me, I got an awesome deal with my 1332DLE, and am very happy with it.........BUT, perhaps I would have bought the 926 DLE for much less had I known that it really had a 12hp engine on it.......I may have been willing to give up Key start and 6 inches width and ONE hp, for a unit that cost hundreds less then my 1332DLE.

The fact is that I correctly assumed that the 926DLE was 4 HP less then the 1332DLE.....not ONE HP less.  No wonder there are many here who are THRILLED with their 926DLE.

I find this all hard to believe, it seems VERY WRONG.

Is there a lawyer in the house??.....( Seem to remember that we DO have a resident lawyer here....time for a Abby's class action suit??)

I'm half kidding......but am a bit more cynical now with ALL OPE makers when it comes to HP......I'll keep this in mind for future OPE purchases.......check with you smart OPE guys first.

If I had one of these units that are currently labeled 9 hp......and I planned on selling it soon, perhaps I'd order a 12hp sticker to slap in it first and truthfully get more......

Frank D.

okay Ben you have my attention now...

not trying to be a smart A... but how are you gonna hurt your self with a 12 horse engine labeled as a 9 on a snowblower.

the rest of the snowblower is exactly the same except for the width of the auger.

this is a fact i checked the parts lists on all the snappers.

same gear box same tranny setup same motor box same belts and pulleys.

well actually the tires are wider on the wider machines but thats all.

i dont understand the problem with this.

if it was a lawnmower ,yes i would be concerned .

but the impeller in a snowblower  simply dosent turn that fast.

where is the danger ? i know about the lawyer thing but...

again im not trying to be a smart a...

later chris

Title this one why can't they just label them all 12 horsepower if that is what they are???

Snowshoveler Chris

Ok Chris somethin wrong with my computer as I cannot copy your quote.  Here is my point on the safety thingy.  Sure harder to get hurt on a snowblow application  but it can be done.  that is not my actual point  What someone can do is have an accident and blame it on the underestimated horsepower stated by the manufacturer.. 

I am not a lawyer but the whole thing will result in them pinning the manufacturer by saying  "Well why didn't you label them all as 12 horsepower engines when that is what they are in the first place    They will be guilty of deception and the accident that may not have even been the cause of the operator knowing the actual horsepower.  

If you want a good example  of danger  I let someone use my snowblower and they had used it before on smaller amounts of snow  Now there was a hughe amount.  I surveyed the location and let them go .. soon to find that the machine blew way higher than I thought .an 8 hp could ever possably blow, especially in a deep amount of snow.  But the deep amount is what it  caused it to increase it's throwing distance, when it wouldn,t have happened with a smaller horsepower, it may then have dexreased the distance.    . there was a utility transformer right in the turn around area.  If I wouldn't have caught it it would have been hosed down for 20 seconds.  They could have started out in this area and never dreamed they would hit that object,  If you don't think that is dangerous let's look at it this way.  How about someone trying to take a metal garden hose and soaking down a high voltage transformer for about 30 seconds , and see if it is dangerous or not.  Hope that was a good enough example cause it is a true story .. and I can come up with examples that would be fictisious but possable.  Like someone gets an eye put out. could happen with a two horsepower etc.  but the legal process will beat up the safety issue of understatement of HP

Now I am not being smart either but safety issues are almost always caused by the mind set of it can never happen. and taken further as in it can never happen to me.

And again why don't they take all the guesswork out and label them all 12 horsepower.

Ben07

max427 wrote:

Hi Guys

According to the Simplicity brochure the 1060E throws 40' while the 1170E and 1280E throw 45'.Given that the engine is the same  and they all sport the same4 blade 12" impeller perhaps the difference is the wider blower housing. It may also be that the chute on the three larger units is taller or-------?

The 1390E which is powered by a DIFFERENT engine than the other three also is listed at 45'.

UH OH!

Just looked at the footnote on the bottom of page13 in the brochure:

"*Distances and snow stream can be affected greatly by snow conditions.

Marc

Marshall wrote:
Nice job Marshall.  Best news I have had this week.

When you lean on people they evidently crumble.  Hopefully I will never be on the receiving end.