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Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Original Message   Feb 16, 2005 12:40 pm

At least Briggs has all this in writing on their website it you know enough to look for it.  Obviously Tecumseh and any other engine manufacturer follows this same rating procedure.  Pretty lousy numbers when you think about gross HP as opposed to BHP that we are really concerned with.  Still, they don't mention if this rating system takes into account the very lean EPA carburetors, so I'd have to say no, which means its even worse.  If you look at the last paragraph that I highlighted in RED, this supposedly 8 hp engine I have that is run in ACTUAL conditions and NOT in optimum laboratory conditions, has a pitiful rating, as do all of our engines.

Horsepower Ratings

The power ratings shown with the individual engine series on the preceding pages are established in accordance with SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) code J1940 (Small Engine Power & Torque Rating Procedure) (Proposed Revision 2001-09). Power curve and engine performance data are obtained in accordance with SAE J1349 (Net) or J1995 (Gross) Engine Power Test Codes.

In accordance with SAE J1349 (Net) or J1995 (Gross) Engine Power Test Codes, power curves are developed from laboratory test engines and are corrected to standard conditions which are:

Altitude: 100 meters (328 ft)
Ambient Temperature: 77 F (25 C)

If the engine will be operated under ambient conditions different from above standard conditions, the following factors should be accounted for in estimating "on site" power output:

Engine power will decrease 3.5% for each 1000 ft (300 m) above sea level and 1% for each 10 F (5.6 C) above standard temperature of 60 F (15.6 C).

The actual "on site" power output will also vary depending on other factors including the manner in which the engine is operated, the fuel that is used, and the application in which it is installed.

The "Maximum BHP" curve represents maximum performance output of optimum laboratory test engines of a particular model. A statistical mean of production engines, with 95% confidence, will develop no less than 85% of the Maximum BHP when tested after run-in to reduce friction and after clean-out of combustion chamber, with valves, carburetor and ignition systems adjusted to laboratory standards.

The "Recommended Maximum Operating BHP" is a calculated curve and represents 85% of the maximum BHP curve. For practical operation, BHP load and speed should be within the limits shown in the "Recommended Maximum Operating BHP" curve.

If the maximum speed of the engine specified for a given application is governed to a speed less than the speed at which the Maximum BHP occurs, the engine will not achieve the Maximum BHP in that application. For applications requiring operation at other than the recommended engine speeds, complete details of the proposed engine installation should be referred to the factory for evaluation.

Source:  Briggs & Stratton Technical/Warranty
http://www.commercialpower.com/display/router.asp?DOCID=76491

This message was modified Feb 16, 2005 by Richie


Richie
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MountainMan


Overpowered is Usually Adequate


Location: Connecticut
Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Points: 1564

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #4   Feb 16, 2005 4:32 pm
Richie wrote:


And you were saying ?

Ariens 1128PRO- Honda Generator_ Husky 480-257 Jonsered 2050Turbo- Shindiawa T2500 SCAG Mower -little wonder blower-Sears track blower-Coleman Generator- Bombadier ATV-Stihl HS-45 Etc-Etc-Etc
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #5   Feb 16, 2005 4:36 pm
Hi Mountain,

I posted something in the wrong place, but I just fixed it.  I also do recall you mentioning the altitude issue somewhere.  Altitude really makes for some horrible numbers. 

Richie
Ben07


The more you know about something, the more you find there is to know.

Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Points: 178

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #6   Feb 16, 2005 5:26 pm
No problem Richie, I believe you got another Bullseye on that briggs post, Right over the first Bullseye on the Lawnboy disclaimer.  Shootin one Bullseye thru another, where I come from is called "shootin Tacks".  Tacks are sharp.

Ben

Ariens 8524LE, Toro CCR2000, Jacobsen S-B S-blowers, Generac 10hp Gen-convt. to N.G., 5 L-boys(D's F's &Dura( 74,77,80,88,00), Antiq. 1960 AYP 20 in. mag w 3.5 Tech mower. Ryan/Ryobi gas Trim. AYP 205 gas blwr. Mac c-saw,Toro E-blwr, 2 Weed-E e. stg. trims. outboards, boats, util trail, 2 Jeeps 
snowshoveler


tides in dirts out surfs up

Location: bridgewater nova scotia...aka the swamp
Joined: Jan 3, 2003
Points: 1261

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #7   Feb 16, 2005 5:42 pm
youn will loose some ponies with altitude yes .

but you will also notice horsepower numbers are taken at 60 degrees...not much need for a snowblower then.

at realistic temp you will actually be making up for some lost power...when its cold the air is denser and you get a better burn.

the engines are also rated with all there emmisions carbs and if muffler has a calalyst in it then it must be installed.

most engines are tested without a muffler...or with a stack.

any questions.

later chris

craftsman 10/28 snowblower with tracks   husky 372xpg chainsaw   sachs dolmar bc212 bushsaw   mondo trimmer   monster tractor with trailer    cheep wheelbarro and couple shovels and a partridge in a pear tree 
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #8   Feb 16, 2005 8:02 pm
snowshoveler wrote:

the engines are also rated with all there emmisions carbs and if muffler has a calalyst in it then it must be installed.

most engines are tested without a muffler...or with a stack.


Hi Chris,

For the first time in over two years I've known you on Abby's I have to disagree with you   With the pain staking research I've done in the last few weeks, I've come to realize one thing with these engine manufacturers; don't take anything for granted with them.  Unless I actually see an engine performance chart stating in the fine print that those charts reflect the emission carburetors, I just can't swallow it.  I don't recall if you saw another disclaimer on one of the other threads I posted on, but just in case, look below at one of LawnBoy's 6.5 HP walk behind mowers.

* This engine was manufactured and laboratory rated by the Tecumseh Power Company at 6.5 gross horsepower in accordance with SAE J1940. As configured to meet safety, emission, and operating requirements, the actual horsepower on this class of lawn mower will be significantly lower.

Chris, they are not simply saying slightly less here, they are saying significantly lower.  This is strictly my opinion here, but significantly to me means something in the neighborhood of actual HP being 3-3 1/2.  So why wouldn't my 8 hp Tecumseh be rated similarly since all these engines are rated exactly the same way? 

BTW...Chris, I hope this doesn't mean you're going to fire me for not agreeing on one point



Richie
MissSnowshoveler


If you don't have free speech, what do you have?

Location: NS
Joined: Feb 5, 2005
Points: 706

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #9   Feb 16, 2005 8:22 pm

BTW...Chris, I hope this doesn't mean you're going to fire me for not agreeing on one point

Well believe me, if the Boss fired everyone for disagreeing with him, I'd be out of a job along, long time ago...

You should see the bench he's designated for you.  It'll take you months just to find it under all the junk - no that's not the right word - crap - no, trash - no...well you get my point.

There's a power saw sitting there from 1950 and a 36 volt generator - so your work is all ready cut out for ya - when shall we expect you to be arriving?

Sherri

If you don't have free speech, what do you have?
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #10   Feb 16, 2005 8:39 pm
MissSnowshoveler wrote:
Well believe me, if the Boss fired everyone for disagreeing with him, I'd be out of a job along, long time ago...


Hey Sherri,

That's good to know, thanks.  Hey, I love working on the old stuff, I'll get that Saw and Generator working in no time.

BTW...I'm actually buried under all that stuff.  The other day, while kneeling down trying to clean the place up, someone rolled a big heavy snowblower over my back and pinned me there.  I wish someone would come and help me, the tire chains are still digging into the back of my head

Richie
MountainMan


Overpowered is Usually Adequate


Location: Connecticut
Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Points: 1564

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #11   Feb 16, 2005 9:14 pm
Richie wrote:
* This engine was manufactured and laboratory rated by the Tecumseh Power Company at 6.5 gross horsepower in accordance with SAE J1940. As configured to meet safety, emission, and operating requirements, the actual horsepower on this class of lawn mower will be significantly lower.


All the more reason for " OVER-POWERED IS USUALLY ADEQUATE"

Ariens 1128PRO- Honda Generator_ Husky 480-257 Jonsered 2050Turbo- Shindiawa T2500 SCAG Mower -little wonder blower-Sears track blower-Coleman Generator- Bombadier ATV-Stihl HS-45 Etc-Etc-Etc
snowshoveler


tides in dirts out surfs up

Location: bridgewater nova scotia...aka the swamp
Joined: Jan 3, 2003
Points: 1261

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #12   Feb 16, 2005 9:15 pm
Richie...

the lawnmower is a bit of a different story,your gonna love this.

the engine is capable of its 6.5 horsepower.however the blade is the limiting factor.

there is a certain rpm allowed for the length of blade installed on the mower.

basically it amounts to how many feet per minute the tips of the blade travels.

so in a sense you are CORRECT the numbers are crappy.

they take a high horse motor and slap it on a mower and then wind the throttle speed so far down that it can barley get out of its own way.

remember when we had those little 3.5 or even 2.75 horse 19 inch cut mowers.they would turn up like a racecar and would mow down anything you could push it through.

its all about the blade tip speed  and that even changed,i think it was 21000 feet per minute and now its 19000 .not positive on the actual number but you get the idea.

longer blade ,slower its allowed to go ...or it will break up and thats not pretty especially if you wear sandals.

ps i hope you get your butt out from that pile of junk...i have a bunch of work to get done .

later chris

craftsman 10/28 snowblower with tracks   husky 372xpg chainsaw   sachs dolmar bc212 bushsaw   mondo trimmer   monster tractor with trailer    cheep wheelbarro and couple shovels and a partridge in a pear tree 
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #13   Feb 16, 2005 9:41 pm
MountainMan wrote:
All the more reason for " OVER-POWERED IS USUALLY ADEQUATE"


Mountain,

I have to agree with you on that one  The problem is that over-powered or purchasing more engine than you may need is really expensive.  I suppose the way things are, it's a no win situation for the consumer.

Richie
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