Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > Ressurecting a sleeping beauty
Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions |
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Axis
Joined: Dec 25, 2012
Points: 20
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Ressurecting a sleeping beauty
Original Message Dec 25, 2012 10:04 am |
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Got a problem. Pulled the trusty I think 43 year old Ariens snowblower (with it's second engine, a Tecumseh HSK70 with maybe 20 hours on it) out of it's covered outdoor storage space. Wanted to look at the belt, grease it and lubricate what I knew earlier was a sticking shift bar (the shaft inside the case gets smeared every few years), so started it up to take it the the basement hatch. It ran for a minute - just long enough to get there, then started running rough, then backfired through the muffler, and now I can't even start it.
Took apart the carb to check the flow and needle, found a clean fuel bowl but clayish colored fine particles in the gas. Drained some through the inlet (float valve thing) and it was full of junk settling like an almost solid thin layer in the bottom of my container. Then I'm thinking - didn't run it last year or drain it so the fuel was in there at least two years. I can't remember the last time I filled the portable can so maybe the gas is three or maybe even four years old. I probed the tiny hole in the needle adjuster and blew it dry. And still couldn't start it, but it sputtered once.
Will be draining and replacing the gas (flushing some fresh through the line and what to do with the old?) and clean the carb in place best I can with spray. The spark plug is aged but has at most a few hours on it. Thoughts on what else to do?
This message was modified Dec 25, 2012 by Axis
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jrtrebor
 
Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539
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Re: Ressurecting a sleeping beauty
Reply #13 Dec 26, 2012 6:27 pm |
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We posted at the same time. Thank you.
I have positioned the bowl as described, with the high part under the hinge.
Will try mounting it again tomorrow and see what happens. Appreciate your help. If you have the carb upside down with the bowl on it. You want the higher part of the bowl to be on the opposite side from the float hinge. Check out this link. It may be of some help as well. Tecumseh Carb.
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Axis
Joined: Dec 25, 2012
Points: 20
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Re: Ressurecting a sleeping beauty
Reply #14 Dec 26, 2012 6:34 pm |
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Thanks again.
It's exactly as shown in the last link. Even the 11/64's is set measured with a drill bit.
There must be some crud by one of the plugs. Will give it a second good going over tomorrow and hope for the best. I'll be adding compressed air to my arsenal.
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Axis
Joined: Dec 25, 2012
Points: 20
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Re: Ressurecting a sleeping beauty
Reply #16 Dec 28, 2012 8:20 am |
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No joy. I took the carb off again, actually hoping to see the small throat holes jtrebor posted in his thread of amazing carb photos were clogged. I probed them with the thin steel wire of a spark plug gapper tool and then applied some solvent to all cavities and passageways. I gently blew air into the low idle adjusting needle hole and saw the solvent bubble in the throat where the small holes were, so they appear open. I blew more air from the float needle hole towards the fuel line attachment, and though every nook and cranny I could find. Questioned the integrity of some of the rubber rings, so I bought a rebuilt kit and replaced them. I did not remove the Welch plugs, or change the fuel inlet needle or seat, but did trade out the other parts. The high part of the fuel bowl is on the side with the hinge. It ran a few times like a small rumble of wanting to start and stopped, but never really ran . I've tried adjusting the low speed screw on the side from it's home position of one turn out in multiple steps 1/2 turn in either direction. I've adjusted the bowl adjustment screw from it's home position of 1 1/2 turns out 1/2 turn in either direction in multiple steps. I've dried the spark plug many times and waited before multiple attempts with the spark plug removed to allow anything that might have flooded the engine to take it's course. There's good flow coming from the gas tank with the line removed at the carb.
Found the number 1430J4F on the base and that appears cross to a Tecumseh 632371A. I found their generic manual online. What might I have missed, besides removing Welch plugs?
This message was modified Dec 28, 2012 by Axis
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jrtrebor
Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539
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Re: Ressurecting a sleeping beauty
Reply #17 Dec 28, 2012 9:32 am |
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Tecumseh carbs can be a pain. I've had some off, and back on three of four times. Adjusting the needles a 1/2 a turn per adjustment may be to much. I usually do a quarter of a turn in the beginning stages. If the plug is coming out wet. Your getting to much fuel for one reason or another. With the choke on I would try just pushing the primer bulb once. Using some Instant Start can sometimes help. With the cylinder and plug dry. Spray a little in the carb. Don't prime it and leave the choke off. See what happens. With old engines you just don't know how much fuel is too much. The rings may be worn, valves may not be sealing as well as they should be. So the compression may not be what it should be. They will flood easily. I would also put a new plug in it. You just need to get it running so you can adjust the needles. It can get confusing when talking about the float bowl and what is the correct position. Here are a few photos I pulled off the web. If your holding the carb right side up. The deeper side of the bowl should be on the opposite of the float hinge. Or on the opposite side of the fuel inlet tube. That depression allows the float to drop further down into the bowl. The float hinge is on the fuel tube inlet side of the carb.  
This message was modified Dec 28, 2012 by jrtrebor
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Axis
Joined: Dec 25, 2012
Points: 20
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Re: Ressurecting a sleeping beauty
Reply #18 Dec 28, 2012 9:51 am |
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The fuel bowl is on properly and I adjusted the screws maybe 1/8 turn each time, up to 1/2 turn incrementally, in both directions.
I can pull a gauge through the spark plug gap snugly with a .030 wire. Have tried starting both with the speed set at max and at 3/4, with and without priming and with the choke at various positions. And allowing time between attempts with the spark plug removed to address possible flooding.
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Axis
Joined: Dec 25, 2012
Points: 20
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Re: Ressurecting a sleeping beauty
Reply #20 Dec 28, 2012 10:38 am |
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The HSK70 was purchased several years ago as new old stock, in a sealed Teucmesh box. I was without doubt the first one to set it up.
Got a lot of use out of the original H70 (?) motor that came with the Ariens. It was one of the most hard worked engines we've ever had, and took us though some mighty big storms. I consider the replacement engine hardly broken in.
Tempted on one hand to just replace it, but on the other hand really want to get it going.
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trouts2
Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328
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Re: Ressurecting a sleeping beauty
Reply #21 Dec 28, 2012 1:35 pm |
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>>And allowing time between attempts with the spark plug removed to address possible flooding. Some Tecumseh engines can require up to a half hour to clear a flood even with a pulled and dried plug. I’m not sure why that is but it might be gas saturated in the carbon buildup. ? Tecumseh’s can be extremely fussy with primes and choke and flooding easily as mentioned above. Finding the right combination is a pain and take many attempts over time to get it right for some engines. The way sort things out is to pull the plug often to check for dampness or dry. 1 ½ on the main and 1 on the idle should be fine for starting and tweaks not needed. ¾ to full throttle should not make a difference. Choke and prime will swamp the small throttle difference and the governor will probably have the throttle butterfly open anyway. Give it 1 prime and 4 pulls at full choke and pull the plug. If not damp, two primes, full choke and 4 pulls. If the plug is not damp 3 primes, full choke and 4 pulls then pull the plug. If not damp look to carb cleaning. If the engine puts check for black smoke.
If the plug is damp through any of those tries wait a half hour with the plug out and do the same level of prime and choke on one pull and back off the choke one click for 3 pulls and check the plug. Adjust on the condition of the plug. Another is: spray ether or gas into the throat, full choke and 4 pulls. If wet and no start look into weak spark or being grounded. Give the engine is fairly new compression, valves and probably spark are ok. You get the “rumbling” and to me it seems like flooding (not backfiring which would be lean). If you get that again check for black smoke on the puts as it seems from what you’ve described your flooding. I’m working on one at the moment which behaves like yours and it’s flooding for some reason very easily. It’s takes a single soft prime on this engine every few pulls and backing off the choke after the first pull to get it started. Just a little over prime or pulling a time or two and not backing off on the choke will flood it. A very fussy starter. Anyway it’s good not to pull too much and check the plug often to see where things stand. Whenever wet give at lest a half hour rest with the plug out. ADD: If you give it two stiff primes does gas dribble out of the throat?
This message was modified Dec 28, 2012 by trouts2
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