Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Will be draining and replacing the gas (flushing some fresh through the line and what to do with the old?) and clean the carb in place best I can with spray.   The spark plug is aged but has at most a few hours on it.

Thoughts on what else to do?

>>then backfired through the muffler

   Lack of gas then died.

>>clayish colored fine particles in the gas

  Could be flakes of layered prior evaporated gas.

>>Drained some through the inlet (float valve thing) and it was full of junk settling like an almost solid thin layer in the bottom of my container. 

>>so the fuel was in there at least two years

   So coming down from your tank.   Flush the tank and line.  Install a filter and gas shutoff if there is room under the tank.   There should be one inside but seems like it’s ripped or rotted which happens with water in the gas i.e jells to a blob low in the tank by the outlet filter.

 

>>what to do with the old

   Strain it and put it in your car or dump it.

 

>>and clean the carb in place best I can with spray.

   Sometimes works but often after running will develop problems again.  When they’re that bad these days I take the carb off for cleaning rather than clean on the machine and have it likely not work well later.  

 

   Flush the tank vigorously with a hose if you still have one out.  If not then hot water and soap and shake the tank or stir it with a stick, drain and flush. 

   Spray all the carb holes with carb spray then poke and prod them with a stripped tie wrap, emulsion tube (center of carb bottom up to the throat), air vent (square hole in the aluminum plug at the base), outstide on the flat at the side of the carb into the small hole there and see dribbling from the square hole, spray into the gas line inlet,  replace the seat up on where the needle is (ribbed side facing in),  probe throat holes (they’ll be 2 to 4 depending on the carb for air and idle),  spray into the low idle port.  Repeat the above with air.  Clean the bottom nut holder for the jet – there are 1-3 holes, 1 big, one or two tiny up high in the flat between threaded sections.   Prob inside holes i.e. throat.

 

   Check for crud, growth or rust on the idle and high speed jets.    Check the carb/manifold gasket if you take it off that way.  It’s often easier to remove the carb by the top manifold bolts – write down or better take a picture of the throttle and covernor linkages and springs.  The holes where they go are usually forgotten later.   

   Install the float, tip it over and measure the space of the float to bowl rim 11/64ths, can use a drill bit.

Thanks for the direction.  Here's where I'm at:

I drained the fuel tank at the carb inlet hose connection and flushed it some with fresh gas.  I flushed the fuel inlet needle valve assembly with spray carb cleaner by spraying pulses where the fuel goes in and watching it come out around the needle.   I also sprayed up into the area where the bolt goes that holds the bowl on, and in general anything else I could reach.  I did not remove the carb, the needle valve, nor check the float clearance.... just a matter of what I can undertake in the driveway.  I did make sure my single strand of lamp cord wire slid into the carb adjusting screw hole, and the tapered needle looks fine.  I swished a lint free cloth around inside the gas tank with a nifty tool, not near the filter though, and it came out without grunge.  I did not remove or change any other adjusting screws or settings.

Had a hard time trying to start it with the adjusting screw out 1.5 turns.   At best, it rumbled a few times and stopped.  Fiddling with the adjusting screw on the underside of the carb, I was able to start it with the choke closed all the way and the adjusting screw out 1.0 turns. I removed the heater cover box for ease of access, and with the engine running tried turning the adjusting screw out while opening the choke and the engine stalled.   Any combination opening the choke and/or changing the adjusting screw and the engine stalls.

Never noticed this before and don't know if it's significant, but it runs as described with the heater box cover removed and the key removed.  Something about grounding?

What should I try next?

Just got brave and removed the carb.  Took some photos beforehand and it wasn't nearly as intimidating as it looks.

Although it looked fine, I cleaned the hole the mixture screw goes into.  I removed the adjusting screw on the side of the carb (the black screw) that's about 1.5" long.  I gently polished it, and sprayed cleaner in the hole after finding some grunge. It was exactly one revolution from gently bottoming - that's where I set it to. The fuel float looked fine, the valve seated and I wasn't able to blow air into the fuel inlet.   I cleaned everything I saw, but I'll go back to it and search for the holes you describe in the sidewall of the carb throat as I didn't see them and will print your notes as a guide.
 
I don't have what it takes to do the plugs, but can surely clean passageways.

Based on your description, I might be assembled wrong.

I saw the holes you mentioned on either side of the throat.  One end had two (didn't see three) small ones and I was readily able to insert a bent strand of lamp cord wire in both.  The one at the other end was larger, and could be readily probed.

However, at the end of the mixture screw shaft, I have a tube within the assembly and nothing else is present for the bolt to meet against.  Is that where the o ring and brass washer go?

I'm attaching a link to a photo of the carb, and another to some leftover things I have on hand from an old rebuild kit I used only for the bowl gasket.  Does the washer and o ring belong in the tube?  There's nothing in it now.  Be embarrassing if that's the only problem!


http://i46.tinypic.com/1z1dxld.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/2s61qus.jpg

That parts set. It has the ring and gasket contacting the spring end that's not seen.  And there's the gasket under the bowl that this tightens with.

It's what's within the carb I'm questioning.  Lots of diagrams like this:

http://c.searspartsdirect.com/lis_png/PLDM/10043626-00001.png

but they don't show what's between the end of the shaft the part you posted a picture of meets inside the carb.  There's a tube that comes down within the threaded shaft.  Does anything go between the part you posted a picture of and the tube that's within the threaded shaft it screws into?

Thanks for the help.

Axis wrote:

I'm confuzzled, please bear with me.  I understand what you have posted, and the parts I have are as you describe.   I'll try my question again to be clear, maybe I wasn't

In this link:

http://i46.tinypic.com/1z1dxld.jpg

in the center it shows the threads that the adjusting needle screw onto.  In the center of those threads, there is a copper tube.  Is anything missing in that hole.... should there be something (an o ring, washer, etc) between the tube and the threads?

We posted at the same time.  Thank you.

I have positioned the bowl as described, with the high part under the hinge.

Will try mounting it again tomorrow and see what happens.  Appreciate your help.

Axis wrote:

Axis wrote:

Thanks again.

It's exactly as shown in the last link.  Even the 11/64's is set measured with a drill bit.

There must be some crud by one of the plugs.  Will give it a second good going over tomorrow and hope for the best.  I'll be adding compressed air to my arsenal.

Axis wrote:

No joy.

I took the carb off again, actually hoping to see the small throat holes jtrebor posted in his thread of amazing carb photos were clogged.  I probed them with the thin steel wire of a spark plug gapper tool and then applied some solvent to all cavities and passageways.  I gently blew air into the low idle adjusting needle hole and saw the solvent bubble in the throat where the small holes were, so they appear open.  I blew more air from the float needle hole towards the fuel line attachment, and though every nook and cranny I could find. 

Questioned the integrity of some of the rubber rings, so I bought a rebuilt kit and replaced them.  I did not remove the Welch plugs, or change the fuel inlet needle or seat, but did trade out the other parts.  The high part of the fuel bowl is on the side with the hinge.

It ran a few times like a small rumble of wanting to start and stopped, but never really ran.  I've tried adjusting the low speed screw on the side from it's home position of one turn out  in multiple steps 1/2 turn in either direction.  I've adjusted the bowl adjustment screw from it's home position of 1 1/2 turns out 1/2 turn in either direction in multiple steps.  I've dried the spark plug many times and waited before multiple attempts with the spark plug removed to allow anything that might have flooded the engine to take it's course.  There's good flow coming from the gas tank with the line removed at the carb.

Found the number 1430J4F on the base and that appears cross to a Tecumseh 632371A.  I found their generic manual online.

What might I have missed, besides removing Welch plugs?

The fuel bowl is on properly and I adjusted the screws maybe 1/8 turn each time, up to 1/2 turn incrementally, in both directions.

I can pull a gauge through the spark plug gap snugly with a .030 wire.  Have tried starting both with the speed set at max and at 3/4, with and without priming and with the choke at various positions.  And allowing time between attempts with the spark plug removed to address possible flooding.

Axis wrote:

The HSK70 was purchased several years ago as new old stock, in a sealed Teucmesh box.  I was without doubt the first one to set it up.

Got a lot of use out of the original H70 (?) motor that came with the Ariens.  It was one of the most hard worked engines we've ever had, and took us though some mighty big storms.  I consider the replacement engine hardly broken in.

Tempted on one hand to just replace it, but on the other hand really want to get it going.

>>And allowing time between attempts with the spark plug removed to address possible flooding.

   Some Tecumseh engines can require up to a half hour to clear a flood even with a pulled and dried plug.  I’m not sure why that is but it might be gas saturated in the carbon buildup.  ?

    Tecumseh’s can be extremely fussy with primes and choke and flooding easily as mentioned above.  Finding the right combination is a pain and take many attempts over time to get it right for some engines. 

 

    The way sort things out is to pull the plug often to check for dampness or dry.

 

     1 ½ on the main and 1 on the idle should be fine for starting and tweaks not needed.   ¾ to full throttle should not make a difference.  Choke and prime will swamp the small throttle difference and the governor will probably have the throttle butterfly open anyway.

 

    Give it 1 prime and 4 pulls at full choke and pull the plug.  If not damp, two primes, full choke and 4 pulls.   If the plug is not damp 3 primes, full choke and 4 pulls then pull the plug.  If not damp look to carb cleaning.   If the engine puts check for black smoke. 

    If the plug is damp through any of those tries wait a half hour with the plug out and do the same level of prime and choke on one pull and back off the choke one click for 3 pulls and check the plug.  Adjust on the condition of the plug.

 

    Another is: spray ether or gas into the throat, full choke and 4 pulls.  If wet and no start look into weak spark or being grounded. 

 

   Give the engine is fairly new compression, valves and probably spark are ok.  You get the “rumbling” and to me it seems like flooding (not backfiring which would be lean).  If you get that again check for black smoke on the puts as it seems from what you’ve described your flooding. 

 

    I’m working on one at the moment which behaves like yours and it’s flooding for some reason very easily.  It’s takes a single soft prime on this engine every few pulls and backing off the choke after the first pull to get it started.   Just a little over prime or pulling a time or two and not backing off on the choke will flood it.  A very fussy starter.   

   Anyway it’s good not to pull too much and check the plug often to see where things stand.   Whenever wet give at lest a half hour rest with the plug out.

ADD:  If you give it two stiff primes does gas dribble out of the throat?

Joy!

It simply started and ran like it always did.  I have no explanation.  It was rumbling and dying, and one time it just caught.   Let it idle for 20 minutes, adjusted the two screws (low speed side screw is exactly one revolution out from a soft bottom and fast bottom of the bowl screw is out 1.25 turns from a soft bottom), restarted it a few times and put it away.  Like nothing happened!

And yes, trouts2, it does flood very easily when priming and gas was visible in the throat with two pumps, three and it would drip out.  In fact, there were times when I first started this ordeal that I'd tilt it on one wheel to drain the excess fuel from the throat and then wait awhile before trying again.  I was thinking of restricting the rubber prime line that goes to the carb so it's not so potent!  You also wrote "Anyway it’s good not to pull too much and check the plug often to see where things stand.   Whenever wet give at lest a half hour rest with the plug out." which is exactly what was done.

Off topic but will ask in this thread anyways, the HSK-70 calls for a 33328D 120 VAC starter.  Is there one that'll fit the engine that's 12VDC and can be powered off a battery?

I'm really baffled and wondering if I should I have confidence in this carburetor....  would feel a lot better if I could say that xx caused the problem. 

Now that you have gotten it running I would suggest trying to find out how it likes to be started.    I would start by trying to start the engine with the throttle set at mid position without using the primer and set the choke to full.  If it doesn't start after three or four pulls I would then give one shot on the primer and maybe even take the choke off and give it another two or three pulls. 

The key is not to flood the engine trying to start it.  If it still doesn't start I would then put the choke on full and give it a few pulls.  After a bit you will find out how it likes to start cold.