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jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Original Message   Feb 13, 2012 7:33 pm
That brings the Toro count to five.   It really needs to snow so I can get rid of a couple.  Or just stop counting.  Got this one at another auction for $29.00 .
Said it needed a flywheel...  It does and has a few more issues,  But the rest of the blower is in excellent condition.  2010 model  210R   38517  



Flywheel is junk.  This is like the chicken or the egg thing.  Don't know what could cause this.
Unless the nut backed off.  But the magneto did get trashed.  Nor did the recoil.
So what ever happened it happened fast.  Ive seen keys shear if the engine does a massive seize.
Or drops a rod off the crank.  But I've never seen a hub crack even thought it's aluminum.






Tore up the key way slot as well.
What's interesting is that the slot is flared out on both sides.
There is galling on the crank so the flywheel did spin at least a couple of times.
Maybe someone installed the wrong size key? Which allowed it to tip in the slot first.
Then things just started to happen. 





Took out the governor parts.




Am finding out some interesting things.  Such as, I've got a flywheel off of a 1999 Toro CCR2400 and according to
the Toro Parts Master.  The two engines (084132-0120-E1) are the same and they both use the same flywheel.
I say they are the same, but one is an E1 and the 210R is and E8 not really sure what that is?
They also both use the same crank.  And I have the crank as well.
Haven't  decided exactly what I'm going to do with the key way slot.  The slot still has some pretty good sides but
the top portion is pretty bad.  I may just eith tack weld a new key in place on the sides.   Then square it back up with a with a cutting wheel
on a Dremel.  Not sure.  I cleaned it up and it doesn't look to bad.




The casing is so close to the auger pulley that you can't get the belt off without taking off the pulley.  The casing doesn't appear to be bent.
From what I could see.  That's a pain.





The cutting edge / scraper tilts under spring tension.  And is much beefier than the older ones.  It would also be easier to replace.
Two bolts, and they are in a much better location.  Won't take as much abuse and rust as badly.





The tank just slips on a mounting post.  That's it, no other supports other than the neck going through the top cover.



And there is a little "tang" that hooks on the edge of the oval opening that keeps it from sliding off.  Once you push it all the way down and on.
Which it is not in the photo.




Overall the thing is in really good condition.
I also looked down the plug hole and there isn't any carbon at all on the head of the piston, none.
Which is a little strange. 



This message was modified Feb 13, 2012 by jrtrebor
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aa335


Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #9   Feb 14, 2012 2:06 pm
jrtrebor wrote:

     


That's quite a significant difference between the newer flywheel (left) and the older flywheel (right).  Not only older flywheel has a steel insert, but the area surrounding the insert is raised and has a thicker cross section.  In addition, there also four ribs radiating from the center outward.    I'm not saying that the newer flywheel design doesn't perform as well, but it is likety to be more prone to failure when it is not properly torqued down (too loose or too tight) or when casting defects are present.  The newer flywheel was probably a result of a cost cutting or value improvement program.  1)  Remove steel insert, 2) Lighten flywheel to reduce material use and shift the rotating mass outward to keep the same polar moment of inertia. 

If I were tasked to reduce cost, these are the first two areas that I would probably concentrate on.  It's a valid change, but definitely reduce the safety factor.  It's a fine balance, reliability and cost.  :)  You can optimize a component up to a certain point to reduce costs, that has to balance out with warranty claims and recall costs. 
This message was modified Feb 14, 2012 by aa335
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #10   Feb 14, 2012 3:30 pm
   The 38517 should probably be 38587.

    Looked at the PL for the back and it looks like it might just be big enough to get the carb out which would be very nice.  Murray addad a pannel which is just enough to make a linkage adjust with a screwdriver but that's about it.

   No listing in the manuals for RPM.  Do you what those ran at?

   Nice rig and great price.  Also great picts and review.

This message was modified Feb 14, 2012 by trouts2
jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #11   Feb 14, 2012 5:17 pm
trouts2 wrote:

  No listing in the manuals for RPM.  Do you what those ran at?

   Nice rig and great price.  Also great picts and review.


trouts2 - All it says in the manual is.  Torque values are derived at 3060 RPM; horsepower values are derived at 3600 RPM.
It also states "Engine power will decrease 3-1/2 % for each 1000 feet (300 meters) above sea level"
Thanks for your comments
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #12   Feb 14, 2012 6:03 pm
JRT:

That's the 5 h.p. R-tek right? 

I have a Toro PDF file  that  shows the operating range from 3850 to 4250 rpm.   At 4250, my Toro is a handful to hold back.  I'm certain that it's making over 5 h.p. at 4250.
This message was modified Feb 14, 2012 by borat
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #13   Feb 14, 2012 6:13 pm
    Interesting on the 3.5%.   Suprising it is that much.

    I looked again at the manuals and no hp and torque figures given.  If you have Toro lit that gives the torque and hp numbers for those rpm's please list them

This message was modified Feb 14, 2012 by trouts2
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #14   Feb 14, 2012 6:35 pm
No h.p. rating just engine operating speed ranges for various Toro products.    If you look around on the Toro site, they have a lot of data in .pdfs.    Note that this lists the different engines Toro used.

When I mention  five horsepower, that's the advertised output for the 141 cc R tek engine.  If it's making 5 h.p. at 3600 rpm, then the additional 650 rpm to bring it up to 4250, will give a considerable boost in power.  Two stroke power builds considerably with revs.  From my experience with the R-tek engine, it make noticeable power with even moderate increases in rpms. 



 
This message was modified Feb 14, 2012 by borat
jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #15   Feb 14, 2012 7:24 pm
borat - Yes, it is the 5hp R-Tek
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #16   Feb 14, 2012 7:50 pm
The R-tek is a fine engine but I wouldn't be as inclined to spin it up like the Tecumseh 139 cc engines.  The connecting rod big end is a two piece arrangement and I wouldn't be confident that it could handle very high rpms.  I'd probably be comfortable with 4500 -4700 but not much above that.  I have no data nor experience with the R-tek to validate my reluctance to spin it up.  It might hold up just fine.  However, being that my 221 is only one year old, I'm not in too much of a hurry to see if it will stay together or let go.   If I can  get my hands on an older one in a cheap used machine, I'll gladly crank it up.  Until then, maybe someone else will volunteer to jack theirs up and let us know how well things go.
jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #17   Feb 14, 2012 8:06 pm
I think before I put the engine back in the frame.  I'm going to pull the muffler and do a little very mild porting.  Nothing more than smoothing out any casting  bumps etc. 
And maybe matching the ports to the gaskets or vice versa.  Same thing with the intake.  Always wanted to do that.  Used to do it on my 125 and 250 Honda moto cross bikes.
Mainly work to the reed valve housings.  We'll see.  Hopefully I can locate the gov. parts tomorrow.  And my friend will be available to Tig weld the broken bolt stud.
That's all I think I'm going to need.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #18   Feb 14, 2012 8:46 pm
Are you planning on taking the engine completely apart?   If not, you might get grinding dust and debris into the cylinder. 

You might be able to get around that by blocking the carburetor and supplying compressed air down through the spark plug hole while you're working.  Pressurizing the engine should prevent debris from getting into the crank case and intake ports. 

Not the way I'd do it but if you're careful, not much if any should get into the cylinder.  you'll need a fairly stiff breeze coming out of the exhaust ports.  After the work is done, I'd tip the engine to have the spark plug hole on the bottom and blast a copious amount of something like solvent or WD-40 into the cylinder to flush anything that may have gotten inside out of the cylinder.  

Good luck.

Edit:   Reference previous discussion concerning the size of ports limiting engine speed.  Below are cylinders from a 1974 RD350 motorcycle.  Engine in stock form produced 39 h.p. at 8500 rpm.   My modified engine is making close to 50 h.p.  Note size of intake and exhaust ports compared to the ports on a 139cc Tecumseh engine.  Each Yamaha cylinder is 175cc which is only 36cc larger than the Tecumseh.  The Yamaha's ports are  huge by comparison to those on the Tecumseh.  Hence the ability to spin faster and make much, much more power. 


RD350 stock intake ports:


RD350 stock exhaust ports:




RD350 engine

This message was modified Feb 14, 2012 by borat
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