Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

UPDATE FROM BEN07 FEB. 3RD

PLS NOTE: THIS PROBLEM WAS ANSWERED BY ARIENS.

POST # 19 explains the upgrade.  

 IT IS A RESOLVED  ISSUE 

I purchased an 8524LE for a price I had to jump at due to an end of season left over last year.   Shortly after, I started hearing horror stories on the gear drives for this particular unit.  I am sure a lot of you are familiar to it.  Ariens advertised  three categories of two stage SB.  Compact, Deluxe, Professional.  What they don't tell you is that this model has the drive unit of the compacts. The one prefixed with "932" rather than "924."   The other two Deluxe models and the Pro models all have the "924."  I feel this is misleading advertising on their part.  I contacted Ariens with my serial number, and all they said was my unit has the reduction unit in it.  I noticed someone in here telling a new owner of this years 8526 model on getting the R3 upgrade.  So maybe that is what I have or maybe not. 

What is this reduction thing.  I can't expect that they altered my gear drive to the same configuration as the heavy-duty one.  Mainly,  because the case appears to be much weaker and a little smaller.

So this year I got to use the machine.  It is quite capable of blowing some serious snow.  The problem is I have to use real high gear selections to do it.  This things ground speed is that of a turtle.  Everything is adjusted correctly, no slippage, proper RPM,  Trust me.  If you want I can get you electronic rpm measurement the next time I get it out of the shed.  I was giving my 15 yr old some lesions/practice etc. and cautioned him on making sure that he was in say forward gear when he starts out with his back against the wall, as the machine is quite capable of pinning him.  He engaged it in reverse and I challenged him to stop the machine from pushing him back on dry pavement.  He got the message that it would pin his belly-button to his spine then plow him right through a old heavy plywood faced garage door. 

He and I just did a neighbors 250 foot double wide with three snowfalls on it.  A 3 week old 4 inch, a two week old 3 inch and a fresh 8 inch.  Naturally the older snow was tough and packed so we were doing probably a good 10 inches plus of some tough underlying snow and some top powder.  Didn't matter, all of it went 30 plus feet in the air for a distance of no less than 40 feet.  The problem is we were doing it in 4th gear.  I don't think that is normal for an 8.5 hp.  When we transported it up there we had to use 6th gear with full throttle or it would have taken forever. First gear and 1st reverse are so slow they are useless.  So naturally I am thinking that what the modification may have been was at least in part to gear it down to take the stress off the inferior drive componets and weaker smaller transmission housing.  Which makes no sense as this machine is big and heavy, and has a large snow box that needs fed to operate properly, so the operator has to compensate by speeding up.  It weighs 240 lbs, that coupled with you say doing an EOD of wet thick heavy slush, filling the whole snow box and spilling a lot of it out on top of the box, can add 100 to 150 pounds to it's weight.  I feel like I am running a 1959 Caddy with a 1962 Rambler slushbox tranny that is gonna blow at any time.

When I contacted Ariens on this they were tight lipped, kinda like you got the reduction unit, buy see you later. 

So I was hoping to get some more information in here before I write a review on this machine. 

I know their will be mentions of advising to call Ariens again etc.  But trust me, they really don't seem to want to talk about it.  What can help prove that out, is they read and post in this forum.  They will read this, and they are quite capable of giving an explanation in here. However that remains to be seen. 

 

Regards. And any info you know of will be appreciated

Ben07-
   I have an 824 that has gotton the r3 drive upgrade, and I have seen the parts.  I'll try to detail them the best I can.  At some point, i'm sure Paul K will post and correct as needed:
    All parts listed are new/changed:
       pulley
       chain & hardware
       drive chain gears for axles
       belt
       bottom cover
       Assorted washers, bushings, etc
       Friction disc

Essentially, anything you see in the tranny case that turns or transfers motion gets replaced.  Now, i can't from memory detail what gets bigger or smaller(Paul will have to do that)  But I can tell you that my ground speed seems to have remain unchaged(the dealer that did the job said it would decrease a bit-if it has i can't tell), but the machine has much more oopmh when pushing through stuff, and much more pull if you try to fight it.  I actually think there are units of your year that qualify for the R3, you may want to post your serial # and see(again Paul will know if he sees this thread)  I actually think the ground speed of the machines is good, the way I blow my drive.  I guess if you're always looking to hit the governer or get the max throw, yeah, you're gonna hang in the higher gears and even at that if there is less than 6" of snow you still won't get it..  If you ask real nice , i suppose i could gps my unit's speed so we can have official numbers(what the h*ll, my neighbors already think i'm nuts), but I don't have an inductive tach to attach to tell you what rpm my engine turns at.  2 weeks ago when we got crushed here in WNY(i was moving 1.5feet - 3.5feet), i found that second was the fastest gear i could use without really digging into the gov and stressing the engine, so I can say there's a use for those slow gears, you might not have seen it yet.  For the record my R1 is a bit slower than F1 and R2 is a bit slower than F2, going by feel.  HTH

Terrapin Thx for the post. Excellent post. that is what i am looking for, someone that knows their stuff.  and there are a lot of you out there, I just need someone in here familiar with this problem.  And yes you must have understood. I have no slippage.  However you also recognized the fact that I may not have the complete upgrade and that i may have been partially blown off when i first inquired about it.  At least you also didn't accuse me of trying to back Ariens in a corner.  If there is a corner than they created it not me.  Also I didn't want to personally Pick on the engineer who tries to help out sometimes.  I also know that he does have to be conscious of product liability.  However if my questions don't get answered I think it is reasonable to make negative assumptions.  And they are not Rocket science questions.  thx I will get back to you on the ground speed thingy next day or two.  reason being that I was so dissapointed in the machine that I put it back in a hard to get at shed and put my old faithfull TORO in front of it as I got a lot of work to do this week in the garage etc, and I figured if I left it in there being I was having difficulties with it, all would have to happen is for it to get in the way and I may want to take a sledge to it.  Just kidding of course. 

Also I wrote my next comment out before I read your post.  So i am going to post it anyway, so don't think I am changing anything I said here in case it comes across that way

Thx ben07 

Marshall I respectfully understand what you said.  However I am asking them a question.  A question for which they won't seem to answer.  However they take action on the issue, they upgrade and modify etc.  You know as well as any reasonable person that they would not be doing that if there was not a problem in the first place.   I don't think I am the one that backed them into a corner.  If they are in a corner, then it very well may be a corner that they put them themselves in, and yes it can be intensified by them not answering questions on it.  .  

"Devulge their engineering."  My question is not how they do their engineering. Doesn't manufacturing companies like auto manufacturers offer Parts and Repair manuals to the general public.   So does this company, however there is no mention of the retrofit etc in their parts radar.  So how do you buy parts for it in the future and know you got the correct part etc.  

Also I know that you are not saying that if someone buys one of their machines that end up having proven problems, and you inquire about it, that they do not have to give you the time of day.  Because if that were the case then less people would be willing to buy  their products.  

Keep in mind this all started with two simple questions. What is the R3 upgrade.  Real simple here.  I am not asking for only the results.  The other part is did they gear the machine down to accomplish this, thus causing overall loss of ground speed.  

One of my objectives here was I saw that the forum was asking for reviews.  This is the first winter on my new machine.  I have a lot of negative things to say about it.  So I figured i would research it more before I post a review so as to avoid over bashing  the manufacturer.  As sometimes happens, you don't get credit for the positive things.  Now you are mentioning that I am trying to back them in a corner and I don't deserve the time of day.  Maybe that is not your intent, however it clearly stated that to be your opinion. (to quote you "it would surprise you if they gave me the time of day") I am glad you don't work for Ariens, you don't, do you? (Just kidding here)   I am entitled to my opinion also.  I asked questions first.  Didn't get and still don't have the answers.  So I am entitled to my opinion, that being if someone didn't have something to hide then they would be more open to answer the questions. 

If anyone else has an opinion then pls post.  If there are others out there who would like to know what the R3upgrade is then pls feel free to say so in a post

Ben,

You're missing the point, I hope.

You asked for an answer and I gave you the best I had and that I could find. I am trying help you get what you need and have no problems with you asking for it. But to draw the conclusions you are throwing out there is not necessarily correct and not the best way to get answers.

If you came to me and said, I need something from you and if you don't give it to me it means you have something to hide, I would take it as rather demanding, extremely assumptive and probably tell you, forget it.  That's all I am trying to point out to you. You catch more flies with honey.

Now, explain what it is you really want to know. Is it, does the upgrade work? Does it help? Is it worth it? Are those not the bottom lines? The members here that have had the upgrade done or done it themselves can tell you first hand if it works and if it was worth doing? I guess if have to know more than that and more than what Terrapin has given you, you'll have to hope Ariens feels like answering you.

Good luck to you.

Ben,

You asked "So how do you buy parts for it in the future and know you got the correct part, etc"

I don't own an Ariens, but you might want to check with the company, or Terrapin who has the R3 upgrade, if they stamp the serial #'s on these parts.

If they don't, ask them if they'll give you 2 R3 upgrades for the price of 1 - that way you'll have an extra set of parts.  But I agree with Marshall here, you'll get more with Honey than vinegar - and believe me - I'm a heavy vinegar user!

--SnowRemover

Marshall thx for all your help.

I really don't understand why you are asking or guessing at what i really want.

Here is the original unchanged summary of questions.

And it is what I really want!!

1."What actually is the R3 upgrade"

2. "Does the upgrade (any of them) reduce the ground speed of the unit "

Now in asking that I find from some well mannered and knowledgable people that there may be two levels of upgrades, and that I may or may not be at the most recent fix and maybe that is why I am having problems.  There was also another owner who discovered the same thing in his other thread.

How are you gonna know if it is worth it if you don't know what it is?   If someone just wants to go on an opinion of results, then I am sure someone has a case of snake oil to sell them.  I heard it relieves grouchieness.

Respectfully Ben

Ah Ben, I'm not questioning you in that way, not assuming you have motives or anything. I just was trying to get to the bottom line to help you out better. I figured you could tell what you had by what machine you had and what serial number it was so then you would know if you needed the upgrade. I was just trying to cut thru the bull, so to speak.

Again, good luck.

Thanks Marshall.  You have been a positive help.  And sure i kidded you a little, but from what i have seen you are one of the bigger stone crushers in here as far as kidding around go's.    That is fine and welcomed.  Your attention to the issue and additions of help are important.    sometimes they are only small bits of info, but as a moderator., that is important and i think quite part of your role.  A lot of times you answer big and complex issues, fast,  and it saves everybody a ton of time.  Sometimes one can get caught in the middle by trying to help.  Fact of life.     So don't just wish me luck.  feel free to keep helping me.  

Snow remover good advice, on the "2 for."  

Also I didn't do any vinegar with Ariens, Last year in April.  One time an e-mail with my serial number.  Got answer "my unit has the reduction unit in it. Any of the 932104 's have it in it"  (if that is true then why are people with this years model getting advice to get the upgrade??  E-mailed back for a little more clarification, no answer. I did call a couple of times and got a receptionist etc and they asked why I was calling I just said I had some general questions on the R3 upgrade.  Got put on hold twice and eventually got disconnected. 

Now there have been indications that some of this years models have to be upgraded.  Being mine was last years model then maybe I got some interim level fix that could be called a reduction unit.  . who knows?  But believe me no vinegar here, just standard communications.  Is the "reduction unit the same as the R3 retrofit?"  Dun Know.

Here is the model and serial

932104                        025158  

Ben07-
   I have never heard the R3 referred to as anything other than R3.  That being said, "R" for Reduction "3" for generation/revision level 3 makes sense to me.  The only way for you to know for sure what you got is for Paul K from ariens to confirm it.  Now that you've posted your model & serial number, If/when he comes across this thread hopefully he'll shed some light on what you got.

When I had the R3 upgrade done in Oct 2003 for my  824 model 932101  the part number for the Kit was 53212100.  My dealer said it came in a large box.  Even bottom cover was replaced to clear the upgrade components.

It would be nice to know  all the part numbers in the kit.