Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I changed the engine oil in a Toro 421Q snowblower.  First time at 2.5 hours, then again at 5 hours, per the manual recommendation.  I noticed both times there are glitter specs in the oil.  The engine is a Loncin 163cc engine.  Is it normal to continue seeing glitter specs at the second oil change? 

My other engine is a Honda GX340 which I changed the oil a couple times since new and did not see any glitter. 

The two Chinese clones I have (a 196cc Champion and a 208cc Mitsubishi) were some of the cleanest engines I've ever changed oil on.  The Champion engine which I bought last year was amazingly clean.   When I dumped the oil on the initial 5 hour change, I strained the hot oil through a coffee filter.   There was no visible glitter to be seen,  even out in broad day light.  The oil still looked new. 

Regarding the Loncin engine, there might be some residual filings that don't come out with the oil and stick to the bottom of the crank case.  Probably nothing to worry about.   If you want, you could put a couple oz. of gasoline/Varsol into the empty crank case and slosh it around a bit then quickly drain it.  That might be all you need to loosen the stuff off of the bottom.  

No reference to how many or much which would be very difficult to determine or describe.  You may see "specks" for a long time.  I'd tank the oil in a clear jar and see what it looks like in a week or two.

Well, I'm not too overly concerned.  Looks like they're fine enough that they won't be a big issue.  Maybe they'll act as lapping compound to help hone the cylinder smooth.  I'll just change the oil again at +2.5 hours. 

Anyways, I'm glad I switched back to conventional motor oil.  No need to waste synthetic oil trying to flush/purge the metal glitter bits.

Pretty normal as the rings and to some extent the bearings wear in.

CharlesW wrote:
So far, this Chinese engine has performed better than my expectation.  Fuel leaks is fairly minor, I dealt with the problem temporarily until Toro respond with a proper fix.   It could be worse.

aa335 wrote: The 421 has done a great job for me as well.
It's my first single stage machine and so far it has been pretty impressive.
Like you, I have no real complaints about the Chinese engine, no gas leak or any other problems, but I am still not as comfortable with it as I could be.

FWIW, The mechanic at my local dealer told me that other than the carburetor recall, he has not had to work on any of the Toro Chinese engines.
Also, none of the 20 or so 180s he did the recall on was actually leaking when they were brought in.
Just a little more info, the carburetor is removed and if it looks new and pristine inside, it gets a new needle only. If the carburetor has gunk, rust. or shavings in it, a new carburetor is installed.

To me, the gunk and rust sounds like classic ethanol problems. The alcohol collects moisture and that probably causes the rust. The gunk residue is also pretty common when ethanol gas is used.
I can still buy "pure" gas and I avoid ethanol blends in everything I own.

trouts2 wrote:
I was just reporting what I saw and see if anyone else has similar observations.  I guess I could go through the trouble of quantifying the metal glitter via RMS, pmm, or % weight, but most of the audience here wouldn't really care.

I'll change the oil again +2.5 hours and post what I found then.  Hopefully, it should be glitter free by the third oil change.

nothing to worry about, completey normal.....l would say u could easly see "glitter" for the next 2-3 oil changes. and yes the "glitter" will stick to the crank case so make sure the engine runs for a good ten mins then change right away while still hot. l would change it at least one more time before the season out.

"To me, the gunk and rust sounds like classic ethanol problems. The alcohol collects moisture and that probably causes the rust. The gunk residue is also pretty common when ethanol gas is used."

I doubt it. 

Not to go off topic, but the ethanol issue is way over-blown and from my experience, ethanol is taking the rap for contaminated fuel. 

Think about it.  If 10% ethanol was as bad as some people claim it is, every second vehicle on the road would be out of commission due to fuel issues.   Bad gas is far more of a problem than ethanol.  Any problems I've had with fuel is water/dirt in it coming right from the pump.  In all of my years using/working on multitudes of machines, and opening up carbs, I've yet to come across any obvious deterioration caused by ethanol. 

CharlesW wrote:

I'm trying to grasp how rust could be formed if the alcohol in the ethanol collects moisture.  If the alcohol is hydroscopic and absorbs the moisture, that deprives rust of moisture, how does rust continue to form? It's like starting a fire, you need three things to get it started and keep going.

Anyways, a little off topic too, but until we know more of the plausible root cause(s), I wouldn't want to place the blame on ethanol and/or Chinese engines.  As much as I hate losing our jobs to another country that is more than willing to do it at a fraction of what we demand here, there are people here who made short-sighted decisions to outsource overseas to appease investors and stockholders quarterly reports.  Don't blame the Chinese, they have as much drive as us progressing through the Industrial revolution in the US years ago.  Instead of blaming, how about a restrospective look at our spending habits and penchant for cheap consumables?  If you want to buy products cheap at discount stores, how many Americans are willing to produce it?

Sorry to get off topic and going political.  But every problem has multi faceted root causes.  I've done my fair share of failure analysis and if anyone think they found a smoking gun without data to back it up, they're just a clown with an opinion.  Sorry, but not all white papers are unbiased truth.  They can be bought and sold just like any fiction books out there.

Off my soapbox now.  Back to our regular topic.  :)