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aa335


Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434

Glitter in motor oil
Original Message   Jan 31, 2011 4:15 pm
I changed the engine oil in a Toro 421Q snowblower.  First time at 2.5 hours, then again at 5 hours, per the manual recommendation.  I noticed both times there are glitter specs in the oil.  The engine is a Loncin 163cc engine.  Is it normal to continue seeing glitter specs at the second oil change? 

My other engine is a Honda GX340 which I changed the oil a couple times since new and did not see any glitter. 
This message was modified Feb 1, 2011 by aa335
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CharlesW


Joined: Jan 9, 2011
Points: 76

Re: Glitter in motor oil
Reply #1   Jan 31, 2011 4:35 pm
Probably only in Chinese engines.
And unfortunately, I don't mean that as a smartalec answer.
I own the same machine and I didn't see anything in the old oil when I changed mine.

I'm beginning to think our problems with the Chinese engines have just begun.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Glitter in motor oil
Reply #2   Jan 31, 2011 5:04 pm
The two Chinese clones I have (a 196cc Champion and a 208cc Mitsubishi) were some of the cleanest engines I've ever changed oil on.  The Champion engine which I bought last year was amazingly clean.   When I dumped the oil on the initial 5 hour change, I strained the hot oil through a coffee filter.   There was no visible glitter to be seen,  even out in broad day light.  The oil still looked new. 

Regarding the Loncin engine, there might be some residual filings that don't come out with the oil and stick to the bottom of the crank case.  Probably nothing to worry about.   If you want, you could put a couple oz. of gasoline/Varsol into the empty crank case and slosh it around a bit then quickly drain it.  That might be all you need to loosen the stuff off of the bottom.  
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: Glitter in motor oil
Reply #3   Jan 31, 2011 6:36 pm
No reference to how many or much which would be very difficult to determine or describe.  You may see "specks" for a long time.  I'd tank the oil in a clear jar and see what it looks like in a week or two.
aa335


Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434

Re: Glitter in motor oil
Reply #4   Jan 31, 2011 7:21 pm
Well, I'm not too overly concerned.  Looks like they're fine enough that they won't be a big issue.  Maybe they'll act as lapping compound to help hone the cylinder smooth.  I'll just change the oil again at +2.5 hours. 

Anyways, I'm glad I switched back to conventional motor oil.  No need to waste synthetic oil trying to flush/purge the metal glitter bits.
carlb


Joined: Nov 16, 2010
Points: 279

Re: Glitter in motor oil
Reply #5   Jan 31, 2011 7:25 pm
Pretty normal as the rings and to some extent the bearings wear in.
aa335


Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434

Re: Glitter in motor oil
Reply #6   Jan 31, 2011 7:27 pm
CharlesW wrote:
Probably only in Chinese engines.
And unfortunately, I don't mean that as a smartalec answer.
I own the same machine and I didn't see anything in the old oil when I changed mine.

I'm beginning to think our problems with the Chinese engines have just begun.

So far, this Chinese engine has performed better than my expectation.  Fuel leaks is fairly minor, I dealt with the problem temporarily until Toro respond with a proper fix.   It could be worse.
CharlesW


Joined: Jan 9, 2011
Points: 76

Re: Glitter in motor oil
Reply #7   Jan 31, 2011 10:35 pm
aa335 wrote:
So far, this Chinese engine has performed better than my expectation.  Fuel leaks is fairly minor, I dealt with the problem temporarily until Toro respond with a proper fix.   It could be worse.
The 421 has done a great job for me as well.
It's my first single stage machine and so far it has been pretty impressive.
Like you, I have no real complaints about the Chinese engine, no gas leak or any other problems, but I am still not as comfortable with it as I could be.

FWIW, The mechanic at my local dealer told me that other than the carburetor recall, he has not had to work on any of the Toro Chinese engines.
Also, none of the 20 or so 180s he did the recall on was actually leaking when they were brought in.
Just a little more info, the carburetor is removed and if it looks new and pristine inside, it gets a new needle only. If the carburetor has gunk, rust. or shavings in it, a new carburetor is installed.

To me, the gunk and rust sounds like classic ethanol problems. The alcohol collects moisture and that probably causes the rust. The gunk residue is also pretty common when ethanol gas is used.
I can still buy "pure" gas and I avoid ethanol blends in everything I own.
aa335


Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434

Re: Glitter in motor oil
Reply #8   Jan 31, 2011 11:55 pm
trouts2 wrote:
No reference to how many or much which would be very difficult to determine or describe.  You may see "specks" for a long time.  I'd tank the oil in a clear jar and see what it looks like in a week or two.

I was just reporting what I saw and see if anyone else has similar observations.  I guess I could go through the trouble of quantifying the metal glitter via RMS, pmm, or % weight, but most of the audience here wouldn't really care.

I'll change the oil again +2.5 hours and post what I found then.  Hopefully, it should be glitter free by the third oil change.
niper99


Location: London Ont
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Points: 354

Re: Glitter in motor oil
Reply #9   Feb 1, 2011 1:23 am
nothing to worry about, completey normal.....l would say u could easly see "glitter" for the next 2-3 oil changes. and yes the "glitter" will stick to the crank case so make sure the engine runs for a good ten mins then change right away while still hot. l would change it at least one more time before the season out.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Glitter in motor oil
Reply #10   Feb 1, 2011 9:39 am
"To me, the gunk and rust sounds like classic ethanol problems. The alcohol collects moisture and that probably causes the rust. The gunk residue is also pretty common when ethanol gas is used."

I doubt it. 

Not to go off topic, but the ethanol issue is way over-blown and from my experience, ethanol is taking the rap for contaminated fuel. 

Think about it.  If 10% ethanol was as bad as some people claim it is, every second vehicle on the road would be out of commission due to fuel issues.   Bad gas is far more of a problem than ethanol.  Any problems I've had with fuel is water/dirt in it coming right from the pump.  In all of my years using/working on multitudes of machines, and opening up carbs, I've yet to come across any obvious deterioration caused by ethanol. 
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