Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I've got an Ariens 824 that I bought new in 2002 which until recently has served me well.  Late last season, it seemed that the drive was "slipping" in that you could hold down the drive lever, but you'd have to give it a push to get it moving.  Also, it would not pull through deeper snow - it would just sit there.   Additionally, it didn't seem to throw the snow as far as it used to.

I pulled the bottom pan and found that the rubber friction disc was totally gone.  The aluminum drive disc to which the friction disc engages is scored up pretty badly fom the metal-to-metal contact with the wiped out friction disc.

It seems that the rubber friction disc is pretty easy to replaced based on the instructions in the manual.  To do this right, I will need to replace the aluminum drive disc as well.  I can't find any instructions anywhere on how to do this, and in looking at it on the machine I can't see how that disc can be removed.  In operating the handle that engages the drive, I can see that the disc moves toward the rubber friction disc - the hexagonal shaft with the aluminum disc slides out from the belt-driven pulleys.

The question - how is the aluminum drive disc removed so it can be replaced?  What holds it?  What other components need to be removed to facilitate the removal? 

I searched for a service manual for the 824, and came up with this - although it says its for the 9-series.  You can see the drive disc diagram in  Fig 6-2

http://apache.ariens.com/manuals/000123A.pdf

I'm pretty mechanically inclined and have proper tools, so with a little guidance I think I can get this done.  I think with new discs and new belts the machine will be performing as it did when it was new. 

Not to muddy the waters, but in researching this I discovered that there were "update kits" offered for this machine to correct drive ratios , improve torque and increase service life (better compound on the friction disc).   I was never informed of this from Ariens or the dealer that bought this from, despite the dealer saying that letters were sent to everyone with an 824 who was affected.  No chance that they will replace under "warranty" at this point.  While the upgrade may be an improvement, I don't want to spend a lot of money to install the update, being as the machine has done well for me until now and winter is here in the northeast and I need to get the unit up and running quickly.  I believe my failure to check/replace the friction disc is what put me in this situation, not necessarily a poor drive design.

Any help appreciated .

Thanks

Derek

What is the factory model number off the back of the machine?

You did not give your model but a 924104 should match what you have.

You can get a parts breakdown at the link below.  I'll reference the figures on pages 6, 12 and 14.

http://apache.ariens.com/cgibin/ctrg0005?SESSIONID=28702a3ad72bf4c0aa733c4cb825206b&site=arienss

FIrst all I'd try to avoid the drive disk replacement if possible.  The friction disk can be very rough and still work without destroying the friction disk.  It may require replacing the friction disk again later but one I did is on it's third season and working fine.  The metal on the drive disk was very chiewed up as he used the machine for a season with it screatching.

I think the way it comes out is toward the friction disk and why the manual says get friction disk parts out of the way. 

Break the bucket apart from the tractor section by the two large bolts on the top right and left of the tractor frame.  Support the handles tilted back and lift off the intake housing from the support rod on the tractor. 

The drive assembly gets unhooked by removing nut 37 page 6 which holds on the drive pulley and attaches to one end of the drive disk spindle (page 12 figure 18). 

You unscrew the three bolts to the housing and according to the manual pull the housing out with the drive plate assembly. 

You will probaby have to unbolt the shift fork, page 14 figure 47 so it can slip out.  With the assembly out you can unscrew the drive plate from the spindle.  

Seems straight forward but room is probably going to be a problem and getting clearance may involve rmoving other parts. 

Again I would gladly avoid that at the cost of replacing the friction disk again in later years.  Much cheaper and much less involved.

Thanks for the info.  Sorry I forgot the model number - it is 932101.

I picked up both parts today, just in case I can do both.  About $26 for the rubber friction wheel, and about $41 for the aluminum disc.  We have a noreaster due here tomorrow night, so I want to have something up and running even if it is a one-season fix. 

The aluminum drive disc on the machine is grooved up pretty good, but it was functioning (somewhat) with no screeching.  The edges of the grooves seem a bit sharp, but not razor sharp.  Due to the way that the rubber contacts the aluminum drive disc when engaged, it seems that the (additional) "side friction" or "side scrubbing" caused by the grooves would "peel" the rubber sideways, sort of like skiddding a car tire sideways. 

I did call Ariens today about this thing, mostly to find out the real scoop on the drive update kit.  The story I got was that the rubber used for the friction discs back then was not well formulated - something about government regulations wouldn't allow the use of certain compaounds (not sure I buy that one...).  Therefore, the update kits were "necessary" to correct the torque/friction/issues by changing the ratios/speeds to offset the lack of proper friction.  The guy went on to say that a new rubber formulation was developed subsequent to all that which DOES provide proper friction/torque/etc.,...therefore with a new friction disc installed, the drive update kit is now unnecessary.  Hmm..not sure on that one either - seems like a lot of effort for Ariens to re-engineer the drive system. issue kits, and pay for the "update" install, etc. jjust because a suitable compound couldn't be found/used.  Maybe...

I have a new belt to install as well, which I believe will solve the throwing distance issue. While I'm in there, I might as well replace the drive belt too  - they do seem worn and ride pretty low in the pulley grooves.  They are the original belts on the machine (almost 10 years old now).  So, if I'm breaking the machine to do the belts, I may tackle the drive pulley as well if it's not too much of a task.  I still can't see how the drive pully is attached to the shaft - in looking at the new one the pulley has a boss on the backside with a hex shaped blind hole in it, with what looks like a keyway groove inside  one one of the sides of the hex.  Press fit?  If the hole is blind, how do you press the old drive disc off the hex shaft? Perhaps the drive disc presses into a bearing?  You mention it is threaded - ther are no visible threads on this replacement disc.  Unless this disc presses into something that is threaded?  Just thinking out loud...

Garage is heating up now, so I'll be getting into it shortly.  Laptop will be on the workbench so I'll be checking in here to see if any further answers.etc. have been posted.

Thanks again.

>>>Thanks for the info.  Sorry I forgot the model number - it is 932101.

   The link you had was for a 924xxx series model so the wrong model.  The 932xxx is a different design so what I wrote above does not apply to this model.  They have a different drive design.

 

 >>>sort of like skiddding a car tire sideways. 

I think you are referencing how in lower gears the disk comes in from an angle to the friction disk compared to how it is more aligned in the higher gears.  That’s ok even with a rough drive plate but I don’t know how bad yours is.  The one I worked on was pretty bad but still lasted as I mentioned. 

  While you are in there it might have been good to pickup an auger support bearing.   It is at the back of the intake housing behind the auger drive pulley.   If you have time it would be good to take off the auger pulley, flange and grease or put anti-seize on the shaft.  Those rust and sometimes have to be heated or sawn off.

 

>>just because a suitable compound couldn't be found/used. 

   Sounds like a fish story.  Their rubber was fine 30 years ago until cost cutting improvements.  Is yours a 4 inch friction disk?  They went from 6 to 4 but possibly after your model year which I think is 02.  They are back at 6 these days.

 

>>>You mention it is threaded - ther are no visible threads on this replacement disc.  Unless this disc presses into something that is threaded?  Just thinking out loud...

What I wrote in the other post applies to a 924xxx not a 932101. 

 You are probably well in there by now so no point in my giving any info. If you’re stuck post what’s up and I’ll try to help.  The drove pulley has a hub which will probably come out.  That might also be a future problem and should get some grease or anti-seize.

Please let me know what holds on the drive plate to the hex end of the shaft. It looks like it is just a loose/tight fit. Also what supports the hex shaft. There's a flange bearing at one end which the shaft may go through out to the drive pulley. It looks like the key in the hex shaft goes to the hub which is screwed to the drive pulley.

Decided to try to run the existing drive disc. ..not as bad as thought.   We'll see how it goes...can always get into that at another time.  Done with the friction disc...btw it is about 5" O.D.

Now on to the belts....

Your on. Sometimes the washers on the yoke can be trouble when refitting the disk holder. The scored drive disk should get you through the season even if very harsh on the friction disk. Open it up in May and redo the job then if required. My Ariens dealer will take take back parts out less than 30 days. Makes it very convenient to have extra parts around without overspending with the return if not used. Now you know how simple snowblowers are on the inside. If needed, going in later for drive plate will be cake. Good job.

Every year I say I'm going to go through the snowblower in the summer and get it tip-tip for winter.  And I never do...

Doing some general lube now, at the pointes specified in the (paper) manua that came with the machine.  I can't see the tiny little diagrams. 

Should the drive gears at the left side be lubricated with grease?  they are covered with rubber shavings from the friction disc wearing over the years. If so, what type of grease?  there is a fitting on the left side, but that appears to grease the shaft for teh small gear/chain drive.   And what about the chain?  Chain lube?  The manual doesn't address those items.

And I will say that this cable setup for the drive clutch leaves a lot to be desired.  No wonder they changed to a linkage for later models.

derek

The drive plate only slides on the hex shaft. It is attached to the engagement fork/yolk, I'd recommend you replace this plate or the new friction disk might not last very long. When you replace the drive plate make sure you clean off all the old lubricant from the hex shaft and re-grease. Also oil the bronze bushings the shaft rides in with gear oil.

Check your mailbox on the upper right of the page when you log in.

>>>Should the drive gears at the left side be lubricated with grease? 

   There’s usually no mention of lub for those in manuals but I grease them with EP.

>>>rubber shavings from the friction disc wearing over the years

    In better weather solvent and a garden hose.

>>there is a fitting on the left side,

   EP

>>>And what about the chain?  Chain lube? 

  I get that with light oil then grease. 

    Marine grease for general greasing and any good EP you can find with water resistance.  It's tough to find recommended greases.

Snowman>>>The drive plate only slides on the hex shaft. It is attached to the engagement fork/yolk.

 

   How does the drive plate get held to the yoke?  There’s a C-clip there but I can’t see what it would catch to on the drive plate if that is the keeper for it.  From what is shown for parts it seem the drive plate would only slip into the yoke as a press fit.

 

There is a groove in the outside of the shaft boss on the new alum. drive plate, but I also cannot see where a retaining clip would do anything.

Well, just got done blowing 24" of snow with this machine, and it performed like a champ.  I only did the new rubber friction disc and belts, using the existing (grooved up) aluminum drive plate.  Didn't have any traction/slipping issues at all.   I'm gonna have a look at the new friction disc to see if it is getting chewed up...but I won't get to it today.

The boss sticks through the bearing assembly (figure 22 on the drawing) then gets that C-clip to keep it moving with the drive yoke.

When you get to looking at the friction disk please post what you see.  It would be interesting to see how long it lasts. 

Derek,  What is the part number for the new updated friction disc??  I have the same machine as yours and the same issues. Thanks, MYCATS...  Also, you mentioned that you bought yours in 2002 and my not knowing the s/n of yours how can I tell what year mine was made??  Mine is ST824 mod. # 932101 S//N 017081. Does anyone know??

Go here and enter your model and serial numbers.

http://www.ariens.com/corporate/Pages/OwnerManuals.aspx

Download the manuals and you can reference your part numbers.

If you want someone else to double check for you you will need to post the model and serial numbers off the tag under the handlebars.

I have a 824/932101 that I have had issues with. The friction disc rubber was shredded, and the drive plate was all scored up. I have replaced all of this, however, the thing that I am really nervous about is the shift fork that hooks onto the friction disc assembly. This mounts into a hole in the frame. The problem I am forseeing prior to putting this all back together is there is a bit of play in this assembly and causes the shift fork rod to dislodge from the mounting hole and the fork will come off the friction disc assembly completely.

Anyone familiar with this issue and or the complete parts lineup for this and how to eliminate the play? I did find a flat washer when I removed the bottom panel. However, unsure if this is related.

Thanks for any help out there!

-=Kurt

   Can't remember about the looseness of the arm. 

   There are two big washers that go over the points of the bearing holder and under the yoke arms.   I think you swing the fork to the right to get the holder and washers back in.  I always have a tough time with them.  You can go to the Ariens site and get the service manual for their procedure on how to put that back together.  You can get an exploded view also for checking out the arm.

kramm wrote:

Hi Kurt,

I will take a look at the problem you are concerned about on my 824/932101. There should be bushing flanges at each end of the shift fork- 05514500 and 05503700.

I have mine apart because I am changing my Friction disk and plate. I ordered the parts today. I already removed the old disk but I have not removed the plate yet. I see you have replaced both on yours. Is there anything you can tell me about replacing the Plate? There are no direction for this replacement so I was going to wing it. My idea after looking at it was if I remove the cotter pin in the far back left hand corner from the clutch fork it will let me move it further toward the back wall and free up the bearing assembly that sits under the Friction plate. Then it looks like I can just lift the plate upward of the hex shaft to remove. Am I in for a surprise when I go to lift what looks like a free floating plate? Is there anything holding it on the hex shaft or is the clutch fork the only thing keeping it down?

Thanks in advance for any help on this.

There are posts above that mention a C-clip for holding on the drive plate.  The service manual is useless.  The parts manual unclear.  Given that only one thing is floating in the area and a C-clip right there it's probably to capture the back of the drive plate after it goes through the bearing.

Snowmann wrote:

I was hoping snowmann was correct on this one. The above is what it looks like to me. I see Kurt has done it so I am hoping he can clear it all up. Or maybe snowmann actually did both. If he did my apologies for questioning what he posted.