Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I live in Calgary - we get a moderate amount of snow, rarely more than 8 to 10inches at a time, usually in the 2-4" range. The issue here is snow drifts.  I live in a north facing house at the south end of a cul de sac and get drifts all the time on the bottom half of driveway.  My driveway is for a 3car garage - not super long (probably 25ft, but easily 40 ft wide. I have been reading lots about single stage throwers - i like the fact they clean to the pavement, but am concerned if they can throw the snow far enough or can chew through a foot deep snow drifts a few times a year.  The other option of course is the 2 stage throwers - they seem a bit big and I've read they don't get down to the pavement. I am also not the  most mechanically inclined individual in the world...

Help?? Any thoughts on what my best bets would be?  I need something that my wife would be comfortalbe using as well. Any comments are appreciated...

NotMoneyGuy: Nice picture.  Could you please reformat it smaller so it won't blow out the page formatting?

>>Commercial snow removal guys who need a snowblower don't drive around with a 2-stage in the back of their truck - they'd need ramps or a team of guys to get it in and out.

 

    Are you saying commercial guys can’t have ramps or have helpers?  Are you saying the commercial guys who were here and had two stages they used for their main clearing device were not here and I did not talk with them or see the two stages in the back of their trucks and on flatbeds?   Are you saying the ramps I saw or the helpers that were with them were not there?  You can’t figure out how to get oil out of an engine so getting a two stage out of a truck is way beyond that and not a surprise you have trouble with that also.  Today a guy picked up one of my high price premium expensive snowblowers and I got it into his trailer by myself while he was getting something from the cab.  Are you going to challenge that also?

 

 

>>required tipping to get the oil out.

   A slight angle and gravity work fine.  I don’t have to tip them over to get all the oil out.  I don’t have to lift them while they drain.  Are you lifting and waiting for them to drain?  That’s not a good way to do things.  You must be very strong if lifting for a side drain.  A board on one side does the job fine or roll it to a spot with a slight angle.  Changing oil should not be a labor as it seems to be for you.  If you were not exaggerating then you need to change your method.

 

   The comments about easy of maintenance merits on a two vs four stroke was not made by me.  They are different ball games and not enough trouble to be concerned about.

 

>>Here's a 22 year old single stage that has been used basically every storm on a 4 car driveway for 20 years.

     You’ve used a CR20E for your main clearing all the time for 20 years until 2007?  I’m very familiar with the  CR20E .  It’s cool but only for small storms.   It won’t handle much and if you claim it does fine.  The only way that machine would be viable is to go out many times before any buildup.  It’s a bit of a pain to use for the very limited low angle toss and very restricted side angle toss but if you like it fine.

 

>>It has never had new paddles and the paddles are identical to what you would get on a brand new single stage Toro.

    So no wear after 20 years of extensive use.  Great, you’ve got a winner there that beats your 15 year limit.  That’s a vane type with straight paddles isn’t it?   I thought flat paddle vain types were scrapped years ago.  What new Toro models have straight paddles these days?  I’m not familiar with any.   I’ve seen a few 20E’s with very worn paddles but they were probably doing 30-40 driveways per storm and not like the light load 3-4 driveways you have been doing for 20 years resulting in zero wear.   

   

   I use two stages and single stages every storm and plenty of times using a 20E.  If you want to claim it’s a great snowblower to use with no hassle for the amount and type of snow we get then fine.  If you want to claim it will even do big storms as implied by what you said, fine.   It can’t.  No worn 3hp CR20E is capable of the miraculous clearing in eastern Mass as you claim.  Your the one who said it was lacked power right?   

#1 "You’ve used a CR20E for your main clearing all the time for 20 years until 2007?  I’m very familiar with the  CR20E .  It’s cool but only for small storms.   It won’t handle much and if you claim it does fine.  The only way that machine would be viable is to go out many times before any buildup."

Yes, I have.  You also said "’Im very familiar with the  CR20E" and "That’s a vane type with straight paddles isn’t it?" - if you were very familiar, you would know that the CR20E has curved rotors - thus the CR.

#2 "Are you saying the ramps I saw or the helpers that were with them were not there?  You can’t figure out how to get oil out of an engine so getting a two stage out of a truck is way beyond that and not a surprise you have trouble with that also."

I'm not saying what you did or didn't see - I wouldn't be so ignorant as to make those assumptions.    95% of the guys around here using pickup trucks keep a small single stage for walkways, etc. that they toss in and out of the bed.  Are there guys who use 2 stages? Sure, but in my experience it is much less prevalent due to the time spent getting it in and out of the truck.  That cuts down on productivity, obviously.

To say I can't figure out how to change oil (or remove a snowblower from a truck) is a reflection of your own anger and ignorance that someone would dispute your knowledge.  I have no doubt you are an intelligent man and good at what you do.  Your experience and opinions may differ from mine on the performance of snowblowers, but I won't doubt your intelligence or ability to perform simple tasks - please show me the same courtesy.   I've probably (very probably) rebuilt more motors in more types of things than you've even heard existed (or maybe not?).  Adequately getting all of the oil out of a small engine with no oil pan requires tipping - we both know that - especially an L-Head tecumseh which is extremely dependent on regular oil changes for longevity.  You can put it up on boards, or tip the unit as I do, or use some other approach.  The same thing goes for lubing the friction disk assembly and tractor drive.  It requires getting the unit into a position other than sitting flat on the ground.  Not a big deal to you perhaps, but I'm not imagining it either.

#3 "I use two stages and single stages every storm and plenty of times using a 20E.  If you want to claim it’s a great snowblower to use with no hassle for the amount and type of snow we get then fine.  If you want to claim it will even do big storms as implied by what you said, fine.   It can’t."

I never said it was the best choice for all storms, but I disputed and will continue to dispute the fact that a single stage cannot handle larger snow.  The CR20E was used as an example of the life of the paddles (you also claimed I said it had "no wear" - I said it hasn't needed the paddles replaced due to wear - meaning they are still within spec).  Were I to point to a single stage that IS a great alternative to a small to medium 2 stage, I would point to the Toro 221QR, not the 22 year old CR20E.  The 20E is an extreme example as pointed out by both you and I, but for its size it is pretty capable, especially for a 22 year old machine.

NotMoneyGuy wrote:

Yeah a competant 2 stage will have no problem with a pile like that. My Toro ate into berms created by a plow from the guy who was doing our yard. That stuff was frozen pretty solid and my Toro just ate it and spat it out. Looks like the snow in the pic is light and fluffy. We rarely get nice snow like that. Our snow is generally wet and heavy and our EOD has a ton of salt in it. It looks like those are nice short residental driveways. My driveway is 220 feet long and pretty wide with a 50 foot L-section off of it. Our EOD is at least 30 feet long. I will have to measure it when the snow hits. Hard to see getting out if you don't clear it wide enough.

There are two reasons to get a 2 stage snow blower. One is the width of the driveway and the other is when you get that heavy wet snow. Unless you want to blow the snow halfway and then have twice as much to blow to get it out into the yard a two stage is the only way to go. Wind as you mentioned could also effect how far a single stage blower is going to go. Whether or not the snow blower is going to get down to the pavement depends on how flat your pavement is and if the wheeled unit is using side skid plates then your not going to get the scoop to drag onto the pavement but the next sunny day shoulds take care of the rest. After John Deere, Ariens and snow king I finally bought the Honda HS928TA which runs on two tractor threads. The good points are: 3 step height control selected by a pedal, easy to start, no pressure plate and no shifting. The electrostatic drive works like a joy stick. You can go a slow as you want forward or backwards. Once you squeeze the auger handle down on the right, once you squeeze the left drive handle, you don't need to squeeze the right one any longer. It stay locked until you release the left side. No wheels or chains are required so you get much better traction to drive through the big drifts and the frozen sludge at the end of the driveway. The pedal height adjustment will allow you to scrape the driveway clean after the heavy snow have been removed. The tractor treads alows you to basically walk behind it basically following it, not pushing it. The tractor model works fantastic for longwide driveways. The engine is rock solid and easy to start. PS with the tractor treads you can drive right up a snow bank to transport it into a pickup truck.. You can't do that with wheeled snow blower.

The bad points with the tractor tread design is that it is obviously not as easy to turn around 180 degrees. It isn't bad with a short forward and short reverse action to turn it around, You'll get the hang of it once you stop trying to spin it like a wheeled snow blower.

The only other point is the price you have to pay for a quality, long lasting snow blower that doesn't have all the traction problems of those with tension and dirt accumulating on a pressure plate on the other systems. You can certainly buy a $1,500 snow blower that may work for one winter of 3-4 storms. Then budget the repair and service and possibly transportation charge every year for as long as you own the thing. I bought my Honda in Jan 2003 and it is as good as the day I bought it. I live in New Hampshire which gets some good storms.

You can save $500 by ordering a new blower in the early fall, How much over $2,800 you have to spend depends on the widths and light options which in your case you shouldn't need lights on a wide short driveway when you have garage lights.

PS The guy in front of me bought the same unit and returned the Craftsman snow blower he bought the week before. I love mine and it saves me about 2 hours on my huge driveway.

Jan 2003 and the wacky guy complaining about his Craftsman.  It was quite a scene and I'll never forget it.  What a small world.  I was standing behind you.  I remember the cracker Craftsman guy ranting about how his friction disk was useless and wanted his money back.  Can't blame him though for being dissatisfied but the commotion he caused was rediculous.  The place was jamed with people going out of the showroom door and around the block twice waiting to return their machines for crumny friction disks.  His commotion caused such a delay it wasn't fair to everyone waiting outside in the line.

How's the track working out way way up there New Hampshire?  It's so far north I can't see how people live up there with all the snow and high altitude.  Everytime I look at a map I have to crank my neck to look at New Hampshire as it's way up at the top of the map and even next to another country.  It's up so high I get a nose bleed just looking at it on a map.  I think the people up there are very tough to survive in the high altitudes of New Hampshire.  I suspect the interbreading of locals with the Canadians has gone a long way to strengthen the stock up there.  Truely a harty bunch.   

NotMoneyGuy wrote:

2009 was my first year and it really is a blast! Nice pic you have there. Small driveways in your area, lots of snow tho. Your neighbors are going to want your help ....... a lot!

gdoll wrote:
I think that you made the right choice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI-AFIA56yo&feature=related

This video illustrates pros and cons of single and two-stage snowblowers. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI-AFIA56yo&feature=related

MN_Runner wrote:

That's definetly a skewed test. How about in actual condition of a residential property with sidewalks, walkways, and shorter driveways. Homeowners dont have huge commercial parking lots. All that was shown was cons of single stage versus pros of 2 stage. The price comparison wasn't fair , high end single versus low end 2 stage.

aa335 wrote:

Its absolutely a skewed test. However, my observation last year with my tracked MTD and the neighbor's toro single stagers last year in deep snow: The single stage is fine as long as the snow doesn't get too high. That means in practice for large storms you'll go out several times. This is not a criticism, simply an observation. I was impressed by the single stage toro, and I could see having one in places where it might be tight to take the Honda 1132. I have a large area to cover and a single stage isn't for me, but for most suburanites and city dwellers around me, its probably the right choice. For me in the country with a long road, the single stage is just outmatched with the conditions I get.