Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I live in Calgary - we get a moderate amount of snow, rarely more than 8 to 10inches at a time, usually in the 2-4" range. The issue here is snow drifts.  I live in a north facing house at the south end of a cul de sac and get drifts all the time on the bottom half of driveway.  My driveway is for a 3car garage - not super long (probably 25ft, but easily 40 ft wide. I have been reading lots about single stage throwers - i like the fact they clean to the pavement, but am concerned if they can throw the snow far enough or can chew through a foot deep snow drifts a few times a year.  The other option of course is the 2 stage throwers - they seem a bit big and I've read they don't get down to the pavement. I am also not the  most mechanically inclined individual in the world...

Help?? Any thoughts on what my best bets would be?  I need something that my wife would be comfortalbe using as well. Any comments are appreciated...

Your best bet would be a single stage based on what you have stated, and an ice scraper to soften up and break down end of drive piles.  Single stage are simple, squeeze bail and steer.  They throw snow a good distance and easy maneuver and operate.

At least start with the single stage, after a season or two you will realize if you need to go up to the 2 stage.   Since both you and your wife are new to operating snowblowers, I would strongly suggest a single stage to begin with.

http://redhouseon7th.com/redhouse/reviews/toroSnowthrower221Q/

Maintenance on a two stage is not so complicated.  If you can read you can do it.  It takes about an hour a year and if you are organized less.  You need a few of common tools which most people have at home i.e. a couple of wrenches and screw drivers.

 

Calgary has an average yearly snowfall of 128 inches.  That’s twice the amount in eastern Mass.

We also get mostly many smaller snows per year and a few big ones. 

 

Clean to the pavement:  A two stage set properly will also clean to the pavement.

 

Toss far:  Single stages blast out the snow so no problem compared to a two stage. 

 

A single stage may not be the best choice because:

 

For the power you need they are very expensive given at least in my estimate that it will not be useful all the time or minimally a struggle to use often compared to a two stage.  Two stages are very easy to use and turn but you hear many comments about how difficult they are to use.  Many do not know how to use their machines.

 

If the cul de sac is large then you get more than ½ of the average road width.   Some plough guys do the area putting the snow more to one side of the cul de sac than the other.  I’ve met a few people who have very large cul de sacs and get huge piles at the end of their driveway.  Seeing you have a three car wide that would be a lot of high snow for a single stage to tackle. 

 

A single stage has limited width but that’s not a huge limiting factor.  Most people with an area like yours and your amount of snow would be happier overall with a two stage.  A decent size two stage would be a better bet at least in my opinion.  I should qualify that I am very familiar single stages up to 4.5 hp and not above other than talking with people.  Their too expensive for me given their overall utility.  The 4.5 I use is a Toro with excellent paddles and powerful Suzuki 4.5 with great compression.  I like the machine very much but it would never do as a main machine here with a 62 inch yearly average snowfall.  

 

Agree with previous poster, as a resident of MA as well, the first snowblower I ever used was a single stage with a 2 stroke, and I would have to say anything above about 4-6" it isn't much help. It worked great on the smaller amounts of slushy snows but a smaller 2 stage may be your best bet. At the EOD the single stage will still have you shoveling to break it up small enough to be manageable with the small single stage.

While I'm sure some of the bigger single stages may be able to handle a bit more than this but still won't be much good in bigger storms unless you are out there multiple times to clear it out. One of my previous neighbors had a single stage Toro with a 2 stroke (not sure of the model number) but he has had this thing for at least 20 years and while it may take him twice as much time and multiple trips outside during the storm he has made do with this for the last 20 years (blizzards and all).

If you set a 2 stage down low on the scraper bar it will often get just about right down to the surface, maybe not as good as a single but  good enough for me, my previous small 2 stage cleaned right down to bare pavement in most conditions.. My current driveway is about 30x25 and about a 15º slope and I have never had a problem with this little bit of leftover, and nothing a few handfuls of salt won't take care of. Often it would be harder to muscle a single stage though deeper snows and battle with the EOD rather than have a self propelled machine you will find in a small to moderate size 2 stage. I just picked up an Ariens compact 22 and it doesn't really take up much more garage space than a single stage would if space is an issue.

gdoll - a good single stage will be perfect for your application.  It will throw the snow fine and will go through a foot deep drift with zero issues.  Look at the Toro 221 or 421 models.

I'm not sure what type of singles you guys have been using, but I'm in MA as well, and we've had/used GOOD single stages my whole life, and never had any issues.  And I don't live down on the south shore where snow is minimal either - I'm much closer to worcester.  Lived on a cul-de-sac for 23 years - never had a problem (or a maintenance issue either).  Always had at least a 6 car driveway as well.

Sure, I have a big two-stage as well, but in 3 years I've used it twice, both times simply because I wanted to, not because I needed to. 

The talk about "muscling" a single stage around is also a bit confusing.  All the one's I've used (Toros and Hondas) have been as simple to operate as a vacuum cleaner - a mostly one-handed affair as well.  The Two-Stage, on the other hand, is a slow, plodding, "muscling" type effort - and when I need to go to work in the morning, walking along at 0.7 mph behind a 300lb piece of equipment is a waste of time.  My single stage can be moved around quickly, dragged backwards with one hand, spun around, tipped, lifted, pirouetted, whatever, with zero effort and with speed.

gdoll wrote:
You have a 40 feet wide driveway at the end of a cul de sac?  I can see the plow guys can have lots of fun after taking a sweep around the cul de sac pushing all that snow and then dumping in front of your driveway.  That is a very wide end of drive pile to tackle.  I didn't realize your driveway situation until I read your post again.  Around here, even if we have 3 car wide driveway, it tapers down to 1 1/3 wide at the driveway apron.  Of course, in your situation, you can choose to clear enough snow so that a car can pass through, not necessarily all 40 foot of it.

Based on what you said about getting a few foot high drifts a year, and typical snowfall of 2-4" at a time, and Calgary 53" annual snowfall, I would still recommend a modern single stage snowblower.  You can start your snowblower in the middle, and the snowblower can toss snow at least 20 foot to either side of the driveway.

I would go for a small 2 stage like a Ariens Compact 22. It comes with a very good Subaru engine and can handle a lot more snow than any single stage. Thay aren't that exspensive eather.  Most single stage units are 2 stroke engines.You have to mix oil with gas. You also have a rubber paddle to adjust time to time and or replace for ware. A  2 stage you will not have any of those problems. A  2 stage can handle end of day snow too. They are very easy to work on .  All you need to do is keep your oil changed, and keep FRESH gas in your tank. Most of us use Stabil in with our gas to keep it fresh. From time to time you may pick up a rock or something and brake a SHEER pin. A sheer pin is a pin designed to sheer off to keep you from damaging any thing. They too are easy to replace and are good to have a few on hand just in case. Keep it well greased and you are good fo more than 10 - 15 years service. I have a Ariens 924 that is 12 years old and never let me down.

I would have to lean towards a 2 stage as well. The EOD garbage that I deal with is tough for a 2 stage let alone a single. I realize you can chop it up a bit with a shovel but even that can be a task sometimes. I guess the best of both worlds would be one of each! Money being tight these days however, would push me towards a small 2 stage like the previous poster stated - a nice compact 22" or 24".

The reference to muscling the single stage would be the effort required to get through the EOD mess. A 2 stage will simply work it's way though a heap of compacted snow, where the single stage typically requires a lot of pushing and pulling while slowly taking small bites out of a pile. Not being self propelled means you are physically pushing it into and through deeper drifts and piles. While I agree that a single stage is a perfect partner for smaller snowfalls as they are typically very light and maneuverable.

Keep in mind I have never used a more modern higher powered single stage and like I said, my previous neighbor before I moved had plenty of luck only using his toro single stage but for the heavy snow that we tend to get in New England on the coast of MA I am better served with a smaller 2 stage. FYI I picked up the compact 22 referred to above with the subaru engine. While I haven't had a chance to try it out, I wouldn't think that it would cost much more than a better single stage. $699 at the HD, and it seems like a quality machine. Hopefully this is confirmed when I get it out in the snow.

FrankMA wrote:
I agree with FrankMA.  I have both a single stage and 2 stage snowblower, as well as various shovels and ice chippers.  Depending on the snow or temperature, you pick the tool best for the job.  My single stage gets 75% of the work around sidewalks, paver walkways, and near the house or flower beds.   The 2 stage takes care of end of drive and sidewalk intersections, as well as helping out neighbors.

If you must have just one and EOD is a big issue, get a compact 22-24" 2 stage.  They have metal auger to break down hard EOD, and that is their only advantage over a single stage, IMO.   I would venture to say that a 22" compact 2 stage with 200cc engine is unlikely to have more throughput than a 21" single from Toro or Honda.  21" singles have better efficiency.  Their auger/paddle drivetrain is lighter and simplier and no self propel to sap power that should be going to the auger..

Thanks for all the advice.  I went for the 24" 2-stage...ended up buying a Craftsman/MD with a 249cc B/S engine, 11.5 lbs of torque. Wish me luck!

Good Luck!

superbuick wrote:

Here in Upper NH they use Honda and Toro at the colleges for clearing the walks for the students. They do not use singles stage blowers that I have seen or heard of. Single stages are limited and up here when you might get 12+ inches of snow a single stage won't cut it. They are good for places where you get a lot less snow.

I'm in northeastern MA on the NH border and I don't see many single stage machines around these parts. I think if you have small areas to contend with or if working a 2 stage is a problem then a single would be the best way to go. For a property owner with a substantial amount of snow clearing needs, a 2 stage is really the most practical way to get the job done. I'm not trying to start a single vs. 2 stage war - just stating that a single stage would not be the tool of choice for most of the storms in this area.

superbuick wrote:
Not where I live. Single stage is useless here.

The purpose of the forum is to help people.  Giving advice with exaggeration and miss information is not so helpful to the poster or others who’ll search the forum for information.

 

>>In fact, tipping over a 300lb behemoth to change the oil once a season

    Is “tipping over” a machine required for an oil change?  I could not tip over any two stage but can still do oil changes. Machines average 300lbs?   Why do you tip your machine over to do an oil change?

 

>>It takes about 15 years to wear out a rubber paddle here in New England,

The big machines have not been around that long so how do you know that?

 Single stages used as a main machine have their paddles wear way before 15 years judging from the many single stages I have purchased from owners with worn out paddles.

 

>>Check out the commercial snow guys and see what they're running - 2 stroke single stages....fast, powerful, effective, and basically maintenance free.

    I deal with quite a few commercial snow guys and none of them use single stages to do their main clearing.   A couple clear with two stages but most have plows.  Many have small single stage 3-5hp’s because they are light and very good at cleanup, paths and walkways.  I don’t know any that have the big single stage machines 6hp or above.  A few have come here to buy two stages from me and I guide them to single stages.

 

I have met a few people who have very small driveways that use single stages, 5hp or lower and like them.  They were fine with putting up with the shortcomings of a SS on bigger storms and EOD, no problem for them. 

A few around Boston with parking spots or condo owners that clear parking spots like the single stages.  I have only met one guy west of Boston who gets the same snow as me, had Ariens 5hp or larger and loved it.  I bought his Ariens ST724 two stage which he did not use anymore.  He had a double wide drive about 8-10 cars long.  I quizzed him quite bit and he said he had zero problems with EOD or any large storms in the last several years.  Hard to believe but that’s what he said and he stuck to it.

You must use a siphon pump or other device to drain oil.  Most of the 4 stroke engines I've worked on (a few hundred or so) have required tipping to get the oil out.  Short of removing the engine from the snowblower, this means tipping the unit for me.  The bottom line here is that it is a FAR more difficult and laborious procedure than mixing oil and gas, which is basically as messy and complicated as putting sugar in your morning coffee.  Perhaps 200 - 250lbs would have been a more accurate figure, but my point still remains the same regarding maintaining 2 stroke vs 4 stroke.  In your defense, changing the oil on a 4 stroke single stage is even WORSE.

The blowers I have seen all have oil drains on the bottom of the engine.  The older ones had it on the side and it could be easier to drain after removing a wheel.  The newer blowers all seem to have an extended drain tube on the back and look easy to change the oil on.  The old Toro I have with a Honda clone engine on it I did tip on its side slightly so I could get the oil drain bolt out without making a mess.  After tipping it a bit it made all the oil go to the other side and I slid an old oil quart cut into a funnel with the tip sticking out between the engine and frame and it made it easier to change without making a mess.

Superbuick - Easy on the wax and chrome polish. You're blinding me here

Makes me want to get polish out the chute controls but methinks that after this season, I may be flipping as I figure out a 'ole blue model

How did you ever find a 22 year old snowblower that looks as  good as that?

We owned it since new so we were able to maintain it and keep it nice and shiny :)

superbuick wrote:

Well to be honest it really depends on your needs. For certain If I had to use a big single stage, I could probably get it to work. The EOD would be a royal pain as it's a LOT of snow. But I'm in the middle of NH. Years ago when I lived in Mass, a single stage would have probably sufficed for my apartment there. For some people overkill is the way to go. No idea if a big single stage 2 stroke would be best for heavy snow but for most storms in Mass depending where you are in relation to Rt 128 you could manage.

The colleges do the walkways and they all use tracked Hondas or Toro's, of course they have major stuff for the parking lots. Some of those walkways are very long and would take 2 passes with a 2 stage. If you have a plow you can't do walkways without tearing up all the grass. I looked at getting a single stage Toro the 221 I believe but it would not have had enough oomph!

No doubt your single stage does the job for you and that's good. Mixing gas and oil is no big deal unless you mix it wrong some how. I don't think there is any one right answer, but for a big heavy EOD it's tough to beat a 2 stage.

superbuick wrote:
I get one of the highest annual snowfall amounts in my Country(Canada).
Not only have I never seen commercial guys use a single stage, I have never seen them in residential use either LOL. No doubt it serves you well, but they just won't cut it here.

Steve_Cebu wrote:

I hope so. This will be my first winter with one.

NotMoneyGuy: Nice picture.  Could you please reformat it smaller so it won't blow out the page formatting?

>>Commercial snow removal guys who need a snowblower don't drive around with a 2-stage in the back of their truck - they'd need ramps or a team of guys to get it in and out.

 

    Are you saying commercial guys can’t have ramps or have helpers?  Are you saying the commercial guys who were here and had two stages they used for their main clearing device were not here and I did not talk with them or see the two stages in the back of their trucks and on flatbeds?   Are you saying the ramps I saw or the helpers that were with them were not there?  You can’t figure out how to get oil out of an engine so getting a two stage out of a truck is way beyond that and not a surprise you have trouble with that also.  Today a guy picked up one of my high price premium expensive snowblowers and I got it into his trailer by myself while he was getting something from the cab.  Are you going to challenge that also?

 

 

>>required tipping to get the oil out.

   A slight angle and gravity work fine.  I don’t have to tip them over to get all the oil out.  I don’t have to lift them while they drain.  Are you lifting and waiting for them to drain?  That’s not a good way to do things.  You must be very strong if lifting for a side drain.  A board on one side does the job fine or roll it to a spot with a slight angle.  Changing oil should not be a labor as it seems to be for you.  If you were not exaggerating then you need to change your method.

 

   The comments about easy of maintenance merits on a two vs four stroke was not made by me.  They are different ball games and not enough trouble to be concerned about.

 

>>Here's a 22 year old single stage that has been used basically every storm on a 4 car driveway for 20 years.

     You’ve used a CR20E for your main clearing all the time for 20 years until 2007?  I’m very familiar with the  CR20E .  It’s cool but only for small storms.   It won’t handle much and if you claim it does fine.  The only way that machine would be viable is to go out many times before any buildup.  It’s a bit of a pain to use for the very limited low angle toss and very restricted side angle toss but if you like it fine.

 

>>It has never had new paddles and the paddles are identical to what you would get on a brand new single stage Toro.

    So no wear after 20 years of extensive use.  Great, you’ve got a winner there that beats your 15 year limit.  That’s a vane type with straight paddles isn’t it?   I thought flat paddle vain types were scrapped years ago.  What new Toro models have straight paddles these days?  I’m not familiar with any.   I’ve seen a few 20E’s with very worn paddles but they were probably doing 30-40 driveways per storm and not like the light load 3-4 driveways you have been doing for 20 years resulting in zero wear.   

   

   I use two stages and single stages every storm and plenty of times using a 20E.  If you want to claim it’s a great snowblower to use with no hassle for the amount and type of snow we get then fine.  If you want to claim it will even do big storms as implied by what you said, fine.   It can’t.  No worn 3hp CR20E is capable of the miraculous clearing in eastern Mass as you claim.  Your the one who said it was lacked power right?   

#1 "You’ve used a CR20E for your main clearing all the time for 20 years until 2007?  I’m very familiar with the  CR20E .  It’s cool but only for small storms.   It won’t handle much and if you claim it does fine.  The only way that machine would be viable is to go out many times before any buildup."

Yes, I have.  You also said "’Im very familiar with the  CR20E" and "That’s a vane type with straight paddles isn’t it?" - if you were very familiar, you would know that the CR20E has curved rotors - thus the CR.

#2 "Are you saying the ramps I saw or the helpers that were with them were not there?  You can’t figure out how to get oil out of an engine so getting a two stage out of a truck is way beyond that and not a surprise you have trouble with that also."

I'm not saying what you did or didn't see - I wouldn't be so ignorant as to make those assumptions.    95% of the guys around here using pickup trucks keep a small single stage for walkways, etc. that they toss in and out of the bed.  Are there guys who use 2 stages? Sure, but in my experience it is much less prevalent due to the time spent getting it in and out of the truck.  That cuts down on productivity, obviously.

To say I can't figure out how to change oil (or remove a snowblower from a truck) is a reflection of your own anger and ignorance that someone would dispute your knowledge.  I have no doubt you are an intelligent man and good at what you do.  Your experience and opinions may differ from mine on the performance of snowblowers, but I won't doubt your intelligence or ability to perform simple tasks - please show me the same courtesy.   I've probably (very probably) rebuilt more motors in more types of things than you've even heard existed (or maybe not?).  Adequately getting all of the oil out of a small engine with no oil pan requires tipping - we both know that - especially an L-Head tecumseh which is extremely dependent on regular oil changes for longevity.  You can put it up on boards, or tip the unit as I do, or use some other approach.  The same thing goes for lubing the friction disk assembly and tractor drive.  It requires getting the unit into a position other than sitting flat on the ground.  Not a big deal to you perhaps, but I'm not imagining it either.

#3 "I use two stages and single stages every storm and plenty of times using a 20E.  If you want to claim it’s a great snowblower to use with no hassle for the amount and type of snow we get then fine.  If you want to claim it will even do big storms as implied by what you said, fine.   It can’t."

I never said it was the best choice for all storms, but I disputed and will continue to dispute the fact that a single stage cannot handle larger snow.  The CR20E was used as an example of the life of the paddles (you also claimed I said it had "no wear" - I said it hasn't needed the paddles replaced due to wear - meaning they are still within spec).  Were I to point to a single stage that IS a great alternative to a small to medium 2 stage, I would point to the Toro 221QR, not the 22 year old CR20E.  The 20E is an extreme example as pointed out by both you and I, but for its size it is pretty capable, especially for a 22 year old machine.

NotMoneyGuy wrote:

Yeah a competant 2 stage will have no problem with a pile like that. My Toro ate into berms created by a plow from the guy who was doing our yard. That stuff was frozen pretty solid and my Toro just ate it and spat it out. Looks like the snow in the pic is light and fluffy. We rarely get nice snow like that. Our snow is generally wet and heavy and our EOD has a ton of salt in it. It looks like those are nice short residental driveways. My driveway is 220 feet long and pretty wide with a 50 foot L-section off of it. Our EOD is at least 30 feet long. I will have to measure it when the snow hits. Hard to see getting out if you don't clear it wide enough.

There are two reasons to get a 2 stage snow blower. One is the width of the driveway and the other is when you get that heavy wet snow. Unless you want to blow the snow halfway and then have twice as much to blow to get it out into the yard a two stage is the only way to go. Wind as you mentioned could also effect how far a single stage blower is going to go. Whether or not the snow blower is going to get down to the pavement depends on how flat your pavement is and if the wheeled unit is using side skid plates then your not going to get the scoop to drag onto the pavement but the next sunny day shoulds take care of the rest. After John Deere, Ariens and snow king I finally bought the Honda HS928TA which runs on two tractor threads. The good points are: 3 step height control selected by a pedal, easy to start, no pressure plate and no shifting. The electrostatic drive works like a joy stick. You can go a slow as you want forward or backwards. Once you squeeze the auger handle down on the right, once you squeeze the left drive handle, you don't need to squeeze the right one any longer. It stay locked until you release the left side. No wheels or chains are required so you get much better traction to drive through the big drifts and the frozen sludge at the end of the driveway. The pedal height adjustment will allow you to scrape the driveway clean after the heavy snow have been removed. The tractor treads alows you to basically walk behind it basically following it, not pushing it. The tractor model works fantastic for longwide driveways. The engine is rock solid and easy to start. PS with the tractor treads you can drive right up a snow bank to transport it into a pickup truck.. You can't do that with wheeled snow blower.

The bad points with the tractor tread design is that it is obviously not as easy to turn around 180 degrees. It isn't bad with a short forward and short reverse action to turn it around, You'll get the hang of it once you stop trying to spin it like a wheeled snow blower.

The only other point is the price you have to pay for a quality, long lasting snow blower that doesn't have all the traction problems of those with tension and dirt accumulating on a pressure plate on the other systems. You can certainly buy a $1,500 snow blower that may work for one winter of 3-4 storms. Then budget the repair and service and possibly transportation charge every year for as long as you own the thing. I bought my Honda in Jan 2003 and it is as good as the day I bought it. I live in New Hampshire which gets some good storms.

You can save $500 by ordering a new blower in the early fall, How much over $2,800 you have to spend depends on the widths and light options which in your case you shouldn't need lights on a wide short driveway when you have garage lights.

PS The guy in front of me bought the same unit and returned the Craftsman snow blower he bought the week before. I love mine and it saves me about 2 hours on my huge driveway.

Jan 2003 and the wacky guy complaining about his Craftsman.  It was quite a scene and I'll never forget it.  What a small world.  I was standing behind you.  I remember the cracker Craftsman guy ranting about how his friction disk was useless and wanted his money back.  Can't blame him though for being dissatisfied but the commotion he caused was rediculous.  The place was jamed with people going out of the showroom door and around the block twice waiting to return their machines for crumny friction disks.  His commotion caused such a delay it wasn't fair to everyone waiting outside in the line.

How's the track working out way way up there New Hampshire?  It's so far north I can't see how people live up there with all the snow and high altitude.  Everytime I look at a map I have to crank my neck to look at New Hampshire as it's way up at the top of the map and even next to another country.  It's up so high I get a nose bleed just looking at it on a map.  I think the people up there are very tough to survive in the high altitudes of New Hampshire.  I suspect the interbreading of locals with the Canadians has gone a long way to strengthen the stock up there.  Truely a harty bunch.   

NotMoneyGuy wrote:

2009 was my first year and it really is a blast! Nice pic you have there. Small driveways in your area, lots of snow tho. Your neighbors are going to want your help ....... a lot!

gdoll wrote:
I think that you made the right choice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI-AFIA56yo&feature=related

This video illustrates pros and cons of single and two-stage snowblowers. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI-AFIA56yo&feature=related

MN_Runner wrote:

That's definetly a skewed test. How about in actual condition of a residential property with sidewalks, walkways, and shorter driveways. Homeowners dont have huge commercial parking lots. All that was shown was cons of single stage versus pros of 2 stage. The price comparison wasn't fair , high end single versus low end 2 stage.

aa335 wrote:

Its absolutely a skewed test. However, my observation last year with my tracked MTD and the neighbor's toro single stagers last year in deep snow: The single stage is fine as long as the snow doesn't get too high. That means in practice for large storms you'll go out several times. This is not a criticism, simply an observation. I was impressed by the single stage toro, and I could see having one in places where it might be tight to take the Honda 1132. I have a large area to cover and a single stage isn't for me, but for most suburanites and city dwellers around me, its probably the right choice. For me in the country with a long road, the single stage is just outmatched with the conditions I get.

Most people don't own four snowblowers or even more than one.  For me, I just prefere owning one snowblower so a two-stage is the best option given my situation.  When the snow is light and dry (i.e., 1-2"), a shovel is very effective and quick.  I use my blower for EOD or when snow is higher than 3". 

I would accept a single stage blower if someone wants to give me one.

MN_Runner wrote:
I think you're trying to be slight.  :)  .  I own just 3 snowblowers.  I just don't get enough playtime with 3 single stage snowblowers.

Owning multiple snowblowers isnt portrayed in Arien's video.  Otherwise, a 24-28" snowblower would embarass the little 22" 2 stage in the wide open field and EOD.  And the little 21" Toro single would embarass that 22" 2 stage in tight quarters and 6 inch deep snow.  But thats apples to oranges comparison.

That 22" Ariens 2 stage was designed as an in-betweener.  For certain homeowners, this product is a perfect "compromise" to deal with EOD and deep snow.  However, if anyone have big areas to cover, a 22" is tiny and would take too long.  And if that EOD is packed and crusty, the 22" would barely do the job. 

I'm sure I can get a long fine with the 22" too.  It comes down to technique. 

MN_Runner wrote:
I'm thinking about letting go of the HS621, but I will have remorse if I do.  I have put in quite a bit of money and time into restoring it.  It's one of those things.

I have been thinking about buying a new Honda HS621 but the price is a bit too steep and will have to drive 6-7 hours to Winnepeg to get one.  So I am not sure if HS621 will perform that much better for additional $700.  A new HS520A is going for $550-600.

MN_Runner wrote:
It's not worth that price huge differential.  I can tell you that since I had both 621 and 520 last winter.  Also, the price of replaceable consumables like paddles and scraper blade is higher on the 621 too. 
But if you get a chance to see a brand new 621 in person, it's a beautiful machine and may close the deal right there. 

The 520 actually has longer throw distance most of the time.  The 621 is much better built, awesome engine, and a lot more gutsy dealing with EOD and heavy snow. 

Are there any differences between your HS621 and the current year model HS621?  I am assuming probably no or minimal differences just like HS520.

MN_Runner wrote:
I don't think there is are any differences, not that can see from comparing to the Canadian model.  The European models have additional muffler guard and chute guards, but the running mechanicals are the same. 

So what are differences between GC vs. GX?  Are they really worth that much more?

>>>2 Stage vs Single Stage Snow Blowers

There's no mention of an offical "test" valid for all conditions all homes & etc.  It's just A vs B in specific conditions.  It seemed pretty accurate for what I experience in the same conditions.  I have a new Toro 2450 which I've used in the past two storms and what was in the video looked pretty much the same as what I experienced.  The guy is going down a length of paved area that could have been a sidewalk, driveway or massive parking lot.  What difference did that make?  He's clearing 20 inches of snow someplace and where makes no difference. 

I had to struggle with the thing quite a bit by hard pushing in unpacked driveway snow, over the bucket, level with the bucket and below the bucket down to about 5-6 inches and even then it had to be assisted.  The snow was not wet or dry and pretty decent stuff for tossing.  When I used mine it was well below freezing and just as the snowfall was ending.  OK stuff to toss.

I've seen UTube videos of guys going along in full bucket snow and slightly higher with very little effort.  The snow seemed to be very light in that video.

I've had Toro Powerlites and Toro CR2000Es and it's the same for them.  They are nice for 1-5 inches or much higher if lighter snow which we don't get all that often in eastern MA.  The can travel alone under their own power in light not so high snow but anything worse requires assistance which goes up proportionally.  In the last storm there were some low spots of 6" which the thing could not clear and travel by itself. 

They require a very flat surface to work well, pull themselves along and not bounce around.  They are ok and I'm never without one and use one every storm and like them.  But even when the conditions are good enough for them they don't toss well to the sides.  They fall of rapidly after about 45 degrees of forward.

Over the last two storms I was pretty dissapointed with the 2450.  It was about the same as the CR2000's which I like a lot.  I was probably expecting too much from the 2450.  For general cleanup, watery sluch and low in snowfalls it would be great but not a big improvement over a Powerlite.

It could do the job with lots of assistance and would be a huge improvement versus shoveling but you still get quite a workout from pushing. 

Maybe in the next storm it will do better but the past storm in reasonable height snow it did not do well, could not pull itself along and reqired quite a bit of pushing.

 

Sounds like you have a reason to visit the cemetery again. 

aa335 wrote:

You know he's just dying to go!

Steve_Cebu wrote:

I'm sure the locals are going to be floored.

aa335 wrote:

They're so excited they're rolling in their graves.

Steve_Cebu wrote:
It's not like they have anywhere to go or anything else to do. 

aa335 wrote:
MNrunner,

These video shows a HS621 in Hungaria.  Notice the additional guard for the chute and muffler.  Other than that, I don't think they changed anything else.  Is it worth the additional $ over the HS520?  Nope.  But what else is there like this?  Toro Snow Commander?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IllKHB8Cwls&NR=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_O6g_uHAA4&feature=related

Thanks AA335, I have seen these video clips and HS621 is a nice machine.  The video on Toro 421Q was also pretty good.

With regards to the 2 stage vs single stage video. Would anyone really consider a single stage machine for clearing out a parking lot of that size? Not likely. That was a lot of snow for a single stage machine but the video showed the machines taking full bites.  I bet once the first pass was made by the single stage machine it's performance would have improved with half bites to the point where it would be moving considerably faster than the 2 stage machine. Before you say that it would still take the single a lot longer even though it was moving faster, I would agree in that situation that would be accurate but not in the case of a normal suburban driveway and sidewalk situation. It all comes down to how much snow you expect to get each year. In my situation a single stage(Toro 221QE) is faster and more efficient, even with snowfalls up to 18 inches. I find this machine can handle snowfalls much deeper than most give it credit for, drifts and all. EOD is another story but I find that if I get to it before it freezes and I attack the snow parallel to the street and sidewalk it does an adequate job.

That was the whole reason why I bought a two-stage snowblower since I was only going to buy one.  A single stage is good when you get 2-6 inches of snow but sometimes that can be a bit of work at the EOD. 

Make sure you look at the tracked models if you get that hard blown snow like we in Saskatchewan do.

MN_Runner wrote:

Single stage like the Toro and Honda can take on 12" fresh snow at a slow pace, not just 2 to 6 inches. EOD up to 12" can also be tackled, but requires some technique. If you normally get 12+ inch at EOD and you can only have one machine, 2 stage is more appropriate.

I tried out my Garant snow scoop on the EOD the other day and it actually worked faster than my 928 two-stage (albeit an MTD).  If I had it to do over, I would go with the Toro 421/221 and the snow scoop, and forget the two-stage altogether.

They have the snow scoop at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Garant-YPSS26-2-Inch-Ergonomic-Sleigh/dp/B000JLK0SM/ref=pd_sim_ol_2 but you'll probably find them cheaper at your local ACE Hardware store or Home Depot. 

longboat wrote:

I have to be on the other side on this one, I'd rather take a big shovel and a two-stage, and forget the single-stage.  Sometimes stuck at work while the EOD gets nice and hard.  The shovel can push most snow down to make a "bigger" EOD and then let the two-stage loose.

I am with you NotMoneyGuy as that is my approach on snow removal.  $25 shovel is good for a few years and I can really clean down to the surface.

aa335 wrote:

If technique means hard pushing then it would bring the above more in line with my experience with a few 4s, 4.5s and 5hp.  My expeience in "average" weight snow around eastern Mass is 5-6 which is about the max for them and only if on a very level surface.  They can do higher but we don't get snow that light very often.   The hard pushing at lest for me is not problem compared to shoveling.   The preference is a two stage but I'm never without a single stage and use one every storm for cleanup of certain problem areas. 

I got rid of a couple Powerlites which I like very much.  One was just about new and the other in excellent condition.  I dumped them thinking the new Toro 2450 would be much better.  Over three storms I find the Toro 2450 5hp less capable than I read about and expected and sorry I did not keep a Powerlite.  

It could not do much with snow higher snows and as a cleanup machine harder to flit around than the very easy to use Powerlite. 

I have both a single and 2 stage but could not live without the 2 stage. I use the single primarily for my deck and the occasional light, fluffy snowfall that accumulates on my driveway. To be honest, if it's that light and fluffy, I find my Stihl BR550 Backpack Blower works the nuts and is very fast as well. The typical storm I see in my neck of the woods is the heavy, dense, cement type snow that is best handled by a 2 stage machine. I'm not saying that a single can't do the job, it's just a whole lot easier and faster with a 2 stage.