Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I live in central Ohio and don't have a real Ariens dealer anywhere near me.  We don't get a ton of snow but on occasion we get hit pretty good.  My current single stage kind of gets me by but I have had to repair it already after only 3 yrs.  I have a 3 car wide driveway  (but not really long) so I need to be able to throw snow a good distance and also be able to handle the frozen chunky stuff at the EOD. I make a lot of turns.  I'm considering 2 machines: 920015 ($899) on the low end or 921020 ($1249) as a higher end option. My questions are:  How convenient/reliable  is the new quick-turn chute & deflector vs the 2.5x crank?  Is it a must-have? Are the materials in the deluxe better grade (steel thickness,etc.) than the compact series?  I'm not sure if the 249cc Briggs motor is made in the US or China.  Does this thing have enough power for the EOD?  I'm kind of leaning toward the Subaru 287cc motor on the Deluxe series unit, even though I'm wondering if a 30" unit might be a little large for my needs.  To me it seems like you're getting a Honda equivalent engine for a great deal.  But perhaps I'm putting too much stock in the whole Subaru thing and overbuying on the machine.   Given these questions and criteria, which model would be the best choice for the money?  

A couple of things.

First, price. It always nice to save money, but there is a point of no return. A trip to Home Depot with a pickup can cost $6-10 depending how close it is. Having it assembled and inspected by a dealer familar with the brand has some advantages also. Annual maintenance will cost a few dollars, the unit will last 10-25 years. $100 more or less isn't the end of the earth.

Second, I have another thread on the auto traction control, but a couple of things. One, no steering is a big loser. There are dozens of complaints about having to muscle it around and revelations when they later bought a unit with steering. Some sort of left right differential ability is nearly essential IMHO. But which. Some are labeled 'power steering'. These have left and right releases that diengage the left and right wheel, respectively. Others, usually only on larger units, are only for either the left wheel or the right wheel. These, such as the one on the Ariens, can be a toggling mechanism that disengages or engages and doesn't have to be held. They work like a power steering system when the disengaged wheel is on the inside of the turn. When it is on the outside of the turn it probably will have to apply a little elbow grease. There is one response on my auto traction control thread. The auto traction control is in overrunning clutch that lets a wheel move faster than the transmission but not slower. That would make it like having a single wheel release where you always returning with the disengaged wheel on the outside. The one response so far indicates what you would expect: it still takes a bit of muscle to move it around.

Third, width is a very interesting thing. Too little and the job will seemed to take forever. Too much and you may find there are areas that are difficult to maneuver the snowblower into. And there's another problem often found in the automotive world: the best features are only on the biggest models. If you want the nicest interior you can't get it on a BMW 3 Series or Mercedes C class. Even if you want a smaller car than a 7 Series or an S class.

Fourth, there are differences in motors but the whole market is very convoluted. I kind of like what I've heard about the overhead cam SX Subarus. However, unless you are most of these units back to back you would never know the difference. What may be more important is to find out who would be doing service on the unit and asked that dealer what he thinks of the different brands. I imagine all will be fine with Briggs & Stratton and Subaru and would have been fine with Tecumseh if it still existed. They may or may not have issues with the other Chinese brands.

Fifth, some cranks are very fast, less than the returns lock to lock. Some are very slow, 10 to 20 turns lock to lock. You absolutely don't want a slow one. The various joystick handles are probably just as okay as a fast crank, but a slow one is a nightmare. That I know from experience.

Now that I blabbed for a few paragraphs let me state that I find the whole thing very confusing and haven't been able to make a clear selection myself let alone be able to recommend specific unit in a different size or price range.

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I'm down to the Platinum 24 or the Deluxe 30 w/Subie.  These seem to be the models in my desired budget (< $1300).   I can live without heated grips and the quick turn chute.  Some people in the past have called the Subaru motor "the gold standard", but now that Ariens doesn't use it anymore they say that the engine doesn't matter.  Any old aluminum bore motor seems to be "good enough" for the residential use that we give them.  I thought the Subies were smoother (less vibration), quieter, more powerful per cc, and able to respond better (quicker) to heavier snow loads than their competitors but it seems that this is no longer important.  Therefore what it all comes down to for me is the Auto traction on a Platinum 24 model vs remote locking axle on a Deluxe 30.  I think I understand how the Auto traction works...just push a little harder on one handle than the other.  Some people claim it's great, some say not so much.  Remote locking axle on the other hand I'm not sure of.  Is there only one trigger on the left handlebar that you click once to disengage the left wheel?  This would seem to make left hand turns easier.  Are right hand turns a PITA?  Is the only alternative to release the drive paddle and then freewheel the unit around or back and forth until you turn it?  I'd like to hear from anyone who has Remote locking axle to give their impressions of it's operation, especially on a larger (28-30") unit.

 

I would say the Subaru engines are every bit as good a has been mentioned elsewhere in other threads, only that the Briggs models will do everything 90% as well. That fact that the Subaru engines may last ~8X longer isn't really worth much when the engine life far exceeds the rest of the Snothro. The power density is also only important if the competitiive displacements are the same (generally they're not, 287cc Subaru versus a 305cc Briggs, etc ). The other advantages (vibration, sound, emissions, governor) are less significant, but of some value. That is, my feeling is a Subaru should be preferred over a Briggs only if the upcharge is minimal. I'd personally pay an extra $50 for a Subaru equipped unit, but no more. I'd also not let it determine which unit to buy (if the unit I wanted did not have a Subaru equivalent). Ariens is still using the Subaru engines on 3 models (only 1 is in the standard lineup, 2 are limited production). 920013 is available at Home Depot (22" Compact). 921019 ST24E and 921020 ST30LE are limited production models.

The Auto Traction Control does have to generate a certain torsional load accross the axle to unlock. This is created when a person starts to turn the unit and one wheel spins faster than the other. It's not alot, but it isn't purely a freewheel load. I've only heard of one or two folks that thought it wasn't real easy. You should push one around a showroom and check it out for yourself. The nice part about the feature is that it is fairly tranparent. No triggers, you don't have to know how to work it, it just works.

The remote axle lock will lock and unlock the left wheel for easy turning. One "click" of the trigger unlocks, then the next one locks it, and so on. You don't notice much difference turning left or right except if you were to turn sharply right on dry pavement in one of the higher speeds. Honestly, turning sharply in one of the higher speeds isn't something I would recommend with any unit. Others on this forum might be able to chime in to comment on this feature. Again, the best way to have an opinion and make the best purchase decision is to run one yourself. In this particular case however, the unit would actually have to be under power to evaluate. You won't be able to do that at Home Depot.

I hope this helps.

PK

Having the Toro 1028 and having used the trigger sytem all last year I can say it's very intuitive. There is no learning curve to it. If I had to compare the difficulty I'd say it was a bit less difficult than dialing a phone. My wife isn't good with anything mechanical at all sand it toook her about 5 minutes. The auto lock differential requires muscle to activate it. We found that out at the dealership. That said you do NOT want to turn any of these at high speed and I mean these snowblowers will turn in their own radius and you do not want to do that quickly. Also the Toro isn't instant as it turns it take about a half a wheel rotation to unlock and reengage. This is consistant with the one we tried in the showroom and very similar to the Ariens that only turns Left.

Steve_Cebu wrote:

The Ariens and Simplicity work as Snowmann described; either the inside or outside wheel is powered depending on turn direction.. The Toro, Husqvarna, and MTD (Yardmaster, Club Cadet, etc.) allow the left or right wheel to be free wheeled; the outside wheel is always powered creating a 'power steering' effect. The auto traction always powers the inside wheel. At low speeds on clear pavement this is probably not much of an issue. Pushing it uphill into 12" of snow in a turn may be a different issue.

Which is best? Beats me. Intuitively the left/right controls seem easiest.

There are no real reports of any engines being junk or maintenance prone. All the major manufacturers except MTD use Briggs and Stratton on their high end units. That Subaru isn't more widely used is probably a matter of cost and size, at 287cc/9hp it is smaller than then the largest systems. The comparable 305cc B&S is not used on the bigger systems. My guess is few people could tell the difference unless they used them back to back. However, back to back, you probably could tell.

In this case I'd first decide on a size. My guess is if a 24" is right, a 30" will seem too big, and visa versa. If you have lots of area, the 30" make sense. If the area is smaller, if you may want to use a side door rather than the overhead garage door, if deep is more the problem than wide, the 24" may be the better choice.

Thank you again for your input.  I don't really have an Ariens dealer close to me so HD is about it and the stores by me don't have either of these models on the floor.   Do you have to stop the movement of the machine in order to use the Remote Locking Axle feature?    I've heard it should not be operated under load.  Also, what's the backfiring issue I keep hearing about on the Briggs motors.  Is that just someone shutting an engine off without throttling down first?   Steve, I like the idea of the Toro's dual triggers for steering.  I've been a Toro guy for 30 years as far as mowers, trimmers etc.  Just bought a new Zero turn this year.  But they don't have this steering feature in a thrower at my desired pricepoint (~ $1300).  Snowmann, I thought for sure I was going to buy a machine with a Subaru motor.  You are starting to convince me that I really shouldn't put so much weight of my decision on the engine as that is going to be the last thing to go bad on the unit.  I guess I'm starting to agree with your recommendation of the Platinum 24.  But it's tough for me to give up on the Subaru...it's a $650 engine vs the Briggs 1150 series which goes for about $300 or so...

OK, after thinking about this WAY too much I think I'm going to get the Platinum 24 today for these reasons:

Price is actually less on Platinum 24 vs Deluxe 30 through HD.

Hand warmers, quick chute, auto trak diff. (read up on the hilliard website about the diff. - think I understand it now. Thnx DavidNJ)

24 will store easier.

24 will take a few more passes to complete the job than the 30 (a little more time to enjoy using the new toy!)

DavidNJ said that in the store that Remote locking Axle seemed "iffy".

Amazer praised his Platinum over his deluxe and made good sense.

Everyone says not to worry about the Briggs 249cc engine.  It may be made by Briggs in China but at least it has ball bearing crank journals.

And finally because Snowmann told me to!  He provided a wealth of technical info and using all of my criteria was able to steer me toward the proper machine.

Thanks to all of you.  This forum was of great assistance especially when there are very few local dealers in my area that carry quality products.

I don't recall saying it is 'Iffy'. Just, their are 5 ways to turn: wheels always locked together, one wheel always in freewheel with pin removed, one wheel toggled into freewheel with hand lever (Ariens Deluxe 28/30, Simplicity), differential powering wheels to a minimum of output shaft speed (Ariens Platinum/Professional, some Deere), operator controlled momentary left/right/both freewheel (some Toro, MTD/Club Cadet/Troy-bilt, some Husqvarna). Reports are inconclusive of which is best with no reported disadvantages to the last.

Sorry DavidNJ, didn't mean to misquote you.  Here's exactly what you said: "The Deluxe has a release on the left side only. In the store it seemed a little erratic;".  Anyway, I don't want to have to worry about stopping every time I need to engage/disengage the axle lock mechanism.  There's my reason for going with the Auto trac diff.  If it's good enough for the Pro models I'm sure its probably pretty good. 

I tried the Hillard AutoLok on a Deere 1330SE today...it wasn't bad. There wasn't any snow, but it seemed easy enough to handle.

In the end the dollars and sizes are fairly small; over the next 15 years you will be spending 'quality time' with it for hours in bitter cold weather with a piercing wind. The Platinum Ariens should serve you well.