Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I live in central Ohio and don't have a real Ariens dealer anywhere near me.  We don't get a ton of snow but on occasion we get hit pretty good.  My current single stage kind of gets me by but I have had to repair it already after only 3 yrs.  I have a 3 car wide driveway  (but not really long) so I need to be able to throw snow a good distance and also be able to handle the frozen chunky stuff at the EOD. I make a lot of turns.  I'm considering 2 machines: 920015 ($899) on the low end or 921020 ($1249) as a higher end option. My questions are:  How convenient/reliable  is the new quick-turn chute & deflector vs the 2.5x crank?  Is it a must-have? Are the materials in the deluxe better grade (steel thickness,etc.) than the compact series?  I'm not sure if the 249cc Briggs motor is made in the US or China.  Does this thing have enough power for the EOD?  I'm kind of leaning toward the Subaru 287cc motor on the Deluxe series unit, even though I'm wondering if a 30" unit might be a little large for my needs.  To me it seems like you're getting a Honda equivalent engine for a great deal.  But perhaps I'm putting too much stock in the whole Subaru thing and overbuying on the machine.   Given these questions and criteria, which model would be the best choice for the money?  

slinger wrote:
The 30" is a little large for your needs. If you have to turn a lot, the better features are the Quick Turn chute, remote cap deflector, and the ATC. That said, the unit you should be looking at is the 24 Platinum (Deluxe). The Quick Turn chute works well when it is adjusted properly (and it's fast). The narrower housing is also a benefit when blowing the EOD. The Compact and Deluxe are comparable in quality and durability, only that the Deluxe is capable of moving more snow, faster (than the Compacts, and many other units for that matter). The Platinum would be capable of moving more than than you'll see in central Ohio. All 205cc and 249cc Briggs snow engines are made in China, but most snow engines are so I wouldn't let that determine anything. The Briggs 249cc has plenty of power for your snow conditions. The 920015 would work too if you want to save a few bucks, but you'll be compromising the ATC and Quick Turn chute. That unit will move all the snow you need as well, albeit less quickly than the Platinum. The Subaru engines are excellent, but the models best suited to you are not equipped with such.

Snowmann, I realize that on the Compact series I lose the ATC, but I was under the impression that the 920015 DID come with a Quick-Turn Chute and remote Deflector.  Not true?   Hopefully the Ariens mechanism is more robust than some of the other joystick chutes that have reported problems.  If I elect to go that way (920015) to save a few $$$  would the 26" width and 249cc Briggs still do well on the EOD?

Maybe you meant a Quick Stick?  What is the difference? 

slinger wrote:

The "Quick Turn" feature on the Platinums and Pros is a single lever with ~80 degrees or so of travel that will turn the chute 200 degrees. It has a feature whereas the chute automatically locks and unlocks when the control is used. It is very fast, but it requires reasonably accurate adjustment to work correctly (expertise that you might not get during setup at a mass retailer). It's simple to adjust (detailed in the owners manual).

The Deluxe,Compact, and Sno-Tek models use a "2.5X Quick Turn" which is a crank mechanism that turns the chute 200 degrees (205 degrees on Compacts) with only 2.5 Turns of a crank. The "Ice Drill" variant of this is the same only that the handle is inline with the crank instead of at the end (like a manual ice drill). The chute is held in place during operation by friction materials under compression in the pivot axis. As this feature is much simpler in design, it has the potential to be less problematic than more complex systems (requires little or no adjustment, fewer moving parts).

The 26" Compact model with the 249cc Briggs has power to spare for any condition and will be more than enough for the EOD. This same engine is used on the larger 14" impeller (Deluxe) models whereas the power consumption and capacity can be much higher. That said, it's has plenty of reserve power for this model. The 26" Compact also does have a remote cap deflector.

PK

Last year I initially bought the Deluxe 24 and later exchanged it for the Platinum version.  The biggest benefit to me and the reason I upgraded was that the traction control made the Platinum a helluva lot easier to turn-- you really have to horse the Deluxe around when it's time to change direction. That gets old very quickly!

The bigger Deluxe models have triggers that remotely release locking pins on the axle, which makes them easier to turn than the Deluxe 24.  I suppose Ariens thought the 24" model was light enough to simply push and twist around to do a 180, but I found it to be a real pain in the a$$.

The Platinum 24 also has a headlight, which comes in handy at my EOD where the driveway illumination peters out (no streetlights here in Hollis, NH!).  The upgraded controls for changing chute direction a half-second faster and for remotely controlling the deflector did not seem to be major advantages, and I could certainly happily live without them.  Similarly, the handwarmers are a nice touch, but not a necessity.  If I had to choose, I guess I'd pick the handwarmers over the chute control upgrade.

By the way, I found the Briggs engine to be great-- it starts very easily (no need for the electric assist, but it's there if you need it) and ran smoothly and powerfully, which was a pleasant surprise.  I am very happy with the Ariens quality, especially at its price-point compared to Toro and Honda.  It's a well balanced, solidly built machine.

NOTE:  I just went to Ariens' website and this year they no longer are producing the Deluxe 24--  only the Deluxe 28 and 30.  If you want a 24" model, your choices are the Compact 24 or the Platinum 24. To my mind this makes sense-- the Compact with its smaller engine would obviously be easier to turn around than the old Deluxe 24, and the Platinum 24 has a bigger engine plus all the bells and whistles.  I'd say that if you typically do not get more than two storms a season that exceed 8 or 10 inches, go for the Compact.  If you get a lot more snow than that at a time, go for the Platinum.

Thanks Snowmann & amazer for your input.  Initially I was considering the Compact 26" because I thought that it had remote chute and deflector controls, but Snowmann says this model still uses a crank.  Now I have it narrowed down to 2 or 3 machines: The Platinum 24", the Deluxe 30" w/Subaru and I am also interested in the John Deere 1330se (nice looking machine- about as much as a 30" platinum).  All of these would be more than enough machine for my needs.  I must admit like some others I seem to be very impressed by the Subaru engine and wish it were available in other configurations of machines.  I know I shouldn't be worried about the Chinese built Briggs 249cc motor because I have heard that the Ariens Polar Force motors are beefed-up somehow beyond the 249cc motors that other manufacturers are getting.  With Subaru I feel like I'm getting Honda-like quality at a helluva deal!   The Platinum 24 is probably the right size for me however, if I get a 30" unit, I can clear the entire circle in the court where I live, thereby eliminating the EOD mess for all 6 residents on the court.  I could be a hero!  (And maybe they would send over some fresh baked cookies or pies to show their appreciation!)

I would just add that it's easy to underestimate how fast you can do a driveway with one of these things.  For example, our driveway is about 70 feet long, plus in the area adjacent to our two-car garage there is a parking area about 30x30 feet.

I got the Platinum 24 instead of a larger machine because I need to park it in front of my car and there's not a lot of extra room there.  I figured it would take me a bit longer to do the driveway, but I just didn't want to try a squeeze a wider machine in that tight a space.

Well, it turned out that even with a 9 inch storm (about the biggest we got here last year), it took only 30 minutes to clean the entire driveway.  I was surprised at how quickly the 24" unit made quick work of the snow, throwing it across the drive like a cannon.  The 249cc B&S engine worked great, as I wrote above.  I would say that unless perhaps you were using the machine commercially, going for a more expensive Subie engine would be a waste of $$$.

It strikes me that going for a bigger unit or pricier engine for a relatively modest sized driveway is akin to buying Hummer because you need to negotiate a gravel driveway.

amazer you are correct...I'm sure the 30"er is more than I need but the Deluxe 30 with the Subaru is actually less $$$ than the 24" Platinum.  I guess you are saying that the remote chute and Auto traction are worth more than the Subaru engine and the wider machine? 

If you are paying more than $1299 for the 24 platinum, you are paying too much. Home depot has it for 1299 with free shipping. They shipped mine to the local Ariens dealer for setup. I bought a set if slides and shear pins and everyone was happy.

The ariens deluxe 30" with the subaru engine is on snowblowersdirect for $1249 with free shipping and no tax for for all US buyers with the exception of Illinois.
If I lived there I would be all over that, a local dealer wants $1750 with tax for the same machine here in Canada and the local home depot is even more expensive than that and the one they have has the b&s engine.

slinger wrote:
I didn't realize that the D30 w/ Subie was actually less than the Platinum 24.  That makes the decision an interesting one.  Personally, I'd go for the P24 because:

• I'm not convinced that the Subie engine is that much better than the B&S.  Perhaps it is, but I'm totally happy with the easy starting and power of the B&S
• The ATC makes the P24 very easy to turn-- you never have to stop the unit, press the trigger, turn it around and get it to re-engage every time you change direction
• The handwarmers are definitely nice on the Platinum series
• While the Platinum's quick chute reverser and remote deflector control are not a must-have, they are nice features.
• A 30" wide unit will go through snow quicker in general, but once you get to a storm more than 8 or 9 inches, you'll have to slow down the speed or you'll overstuff the chute.  Don't forget, the chute is the same whether you have a 24" or 34" model, and it can handle only so many cubic inches of snow a second.  Given the size of your drive, you probably won't save more than a few minutes using a 30".

Anyway, these are just my $.02.  I don't think you can make a real mistake with either unit, but I know you'd be happy with the Platinum 24.

Thanks to all for your input.  I know the Deluxe 30" w/Subaru is a great deal.  I would love to have that engine on a Platinum 24...now THAT would be one helluva machine!  Yes, I am aware of the pricing at HD & Snow Blowers Direct. At HD I'd have to pay tax which makes a $1299 Platinum 24  $1390 delivered (free).  Snow Blowers Direct has free shipping as well and no tax but their price is $1399, so it's a wash.  I asked them (SBD) if they would have this sale price like HD has.  Snow Blowers Direct's reply:

That would depend on Ariens.  They went ahead and fulfilled all of Home Depot’s order and then didn’t have any left over for anyone else.  So the sale they were running through the month of September does not apply for us since we won’t get any of these units in until October.  There sale is all rebate incentive, so we need a serial number to get the money.  We are hoping they will extend it, but we may have gotten the short end of the stick.

A couple of things.

First, price. It always nice to save money, but there is a point of no return. A trip to Home Depot with a pickup can cost $6-10 depending how close it is. Having it assembled and inspected by a dealer familar with the brand has some advantages also. Annual maintenance will cost a few dollars, the unit will last 10-25 years. $100 more or less isn't the end of the earth.

Second, I have another thread on the auto traction control, but a couple of things. One, no steering is a big loser. There are dozens of complaints about having to muscle it around and revelations when they later bought a unit with steering. Some sort of left right differential ability is nearly essential IMHO. But which. Some are labeled 'power steering'. These have left and right releases that diengage the left and right wheel, respectively. Others, usually only on larger units, are only for either the left wheel or the right wheel. These, such as the one on the Ariens, can be a toggling mechanism that disengages or engages and doesn't have to be held. They work like a power steering system when the disengaged wheel is on the inside of the turn. When it is on the outside of the turn it probably will have to apply a little elbow grease. There is one response on my auto traction control thread. The auto traction control is in overrunning clutch that lets a wheel move faster than the transmission but not slower. That would make it like having a single wheel release where you always returning with the disengaged wheel on the outside. The one response so far indicates what you would expect: it still takes a bit of muscle to move it around.

Third, width is a very interesting thing. Too little and the job will seemed to take forever. Too much and you may find there are areas that are difficult to maneuver the snowblower into. And there's another problem often found in the automotive world: the best features are only on the biggest models. If you want the nicest interior you can't get it on a BMW 3 Series or Mercedes C class. Even if you want a smaller car than a 7 Series or an S class.

Fourth, there are differences in motors but the whole market is very convoluted. I kind of like what I've heard about the overhead cam SX Subarus. However, unless you are most of these units back to back you would never know the difference. What may be more important is to find out who would be doing service on the unit and asked that dealer what he thinks of the different brands. I imagine all will be fine with Briggs & Stratton and Subaru and would have been fine with Tecumseh if it still existed. They may or may not have issues with the other Chinese brands.

Fifth, some cranks are very fast, less than the returns lock to lock. Some are very slow, 10 to 20 turns lock to lock. You absolutely don't want a slow one. The various joystick handles are probably just as okay as a fast crank, but a slow one is a nightmare. That I know from experience.

Now that I blabbed for a few paragraphs let me state that I find the whole thing very confusing and haven't been able to make a clear selection myself let alone be able to recommend specific unit in a different size or price range.

.

I'm down to the Platinum 24 or the Deluxe 30 w/Subie.  These seem to be the models in my desired budget (< $1300).   I can live without heated grips and the quick turn chute.  Some people in the past have called the Subaru motor "the gold standard", but now that Ariens doesn't use it anymore they say that the engine doesn't matter.  Any old aluminum bore motor seems to be "good enough" for the residential use that we give them.  I thought the Subies were smoother (less vibration), quieter, more powerful per cc, and able to respond better (quicker) to heavier snow loads than their competitors but it seems that this is no longer important.  Therefore what it all comes down to for me is the Auto traction on a Platinum 24 model vs remote locking axle on a Deluxe 30.  I think I understand how the Auto traction works...just push a little harder on one handle than the other.  Some people claim it's great, some say not so much.  Remote locking axle on the other hand I'm not sure of.  Is there only one trigger on the left handlebar that you click once to disengage the left wheel?  This would seem to make left hand turns easier.  Are right hand turns a PITA?  Is the only alternative to release the drive paddle and then freewheel the unit around or back and forth until you turn it?  I'd like to hear from anyone who has Remote locking axle to give their impressions of it's operation, especially on a larger (28-30") unit.

 

I would say the Subaru engines are every bit as good a has been mentioned elsewhere in other threads, only that the Briggs models will do everything 90% as well. That fact that the Subaru engines may last ~8X longer isn't really worth much when the engine life far exceeds the rest of the Snothro. The power density is also only important if the competitiive displacements are the same (generally they're not, 287cc Subaru versus a 305cc Briggs, etc ). The other advantages (vibration, sound, emissions, governor) are less significant, but of some value. That is, my feeling is a Subaru should be preferred over a Briggs only if the upcharge is minimal. I'd personally pay an extra $50 for a Subaru equipped unit, but no more. I'd also not let it determine which unit to buy (if the unit I wanted did not have a Subaru equivalent). Ariens is still using the Subaru engines on 3 models (only 1 is in the standard lineup, 2 are limited production). 920013 is available at Home Depot (22" Compact). 921019 ST24E and 921020 ST30LE are limited production models.

The Auto Traction Control does have to generate a certain torsional load accross the axle to unlock. This is created when a person starts to turn the unit and one wheel spins faster than the other. It's not alot, but it isn't purely a freewheel load. I've only heard of one or two folks that thought it wasn't real easy. You should push one around a showroom and check it out for yourself. The nice part about the feature is that it is fairly tranparent. No triggers, you don't have to know how to work it, it just works.

The remote axle lock will lock and unlock the left wheel for easy turning. One "click" of the trigger unlocks, then the next one locks it, and so on. You don't notice much difference turning left or right except if you were to turn sharply right on dry pavement in one of the higher speeds. Honestly, turning sharply in one of the higher speeds isn't something I would recommend with any unit. Others on this forum might be able to chime in to comment on this feature. Again, the best way to have an opinion and make the best purchase decision is to run one yourself. In this particular case however, the unit would actually have to be under power to evaluate. You won't be able to do that at Home Depot.

I hope this helps.

PK

Having the Toro 1028 and having used the trigger sytem all last year I can say it's very intuitive. There is no learning curve to it. If I had to compare the difficulty I'd say it was a bit less difficult than dialing a phone. My wife isn't good with anything mechanical at all sand it toook her about 5 minutes. The auto lock differential requires muscle to activate it. We found that out at the dealership. That said you do NOT want to turn any of these at high speed and I mean these snowblowers will turn in their own radius and you do not want to do that quickly. Also the Toro isn't instant as it turns it take about a half a wheel rotation to unlock and reengage. This is consistant with the one we tried in the showroom and very similar to the Ariens that only turns Left.

Steve_Cebu wrote:

The Ariens and Simplicity work as Snowmann described; either the inside or outside wheel is powered depending on turn direction.. The Toro, Husqvarna, and MTD (Yardmaster, Club Cadet, etc.) allow the left or right wheel to be free wheeled; the outside wheel is always powered creating a 'power steering' effect. The auto traction always powers the inside wheel. At low speeds on clear pavement this is probably not much of an issue. Pushing it uphill into 12" of snow in a turn may be a different issue.

Which is best? Beats me. Intuitively the left/right controls seem easiest.

There are no real reports of any engines being junk or maintenance prone. All the major manufacturers except MTD use Briggs and Stratton on their high end units. That Subaru isn't more widely used is probably a matter of cost and size, at 287cc/9hp it is smaller than then the largest systems. The comparable 305cc B&S is not used on the bigger systems. My guess is few people could tell the difference unless they used them back to back. However, back to back, you probably could tell.

In this case I'd first decide on a size. My guess is if a 24" is right, a 30" will seem too big, and visa versa. If you have lots of area, the 30" make sense. If the area is smaller, if you may want to use a side door rather than the overhead garage door, if deep is more the problem than wide, the 24" may be the better choice.

Thank you again for your input.  I don't really have an Ariens dealer close to me so HD is about it and the stores by me don't have either of these models on the floor.   Do you have to stop the movement of the machine in order to use the Remote Locking Axle feature?    I've heard it should not be operated under load.  Also, what's the backfiring issue I keep hearing about on the Briggs motors.  Is that just someone shutting an engine off without throttling down first?   Steve, I like the idea of the Toro's dual triggers for steering.  I've been a Toro guy for 30 years as far as mowers, trimmers etc.  Just bought a new Zero turn this year.  But they don't have this steering feature in a thrower at my desired pricepoint (~ $1300).  Snowmann, I thought for sure I was going to buy a machine with a Subaru motor.  You are starting to convince me that I really shouldn't put so much weight of my decision on the engine as that is going to be the last thing to go bad on the unit.  I guess I'm starting to agree with your recommendation of the Platinum 24.  But it's tough for me to give up on the Subaru...it's a $650 engine vs the Briggs 1150 series which goes for about $300 or so...

OK, after thinking about this WAY too much I think I'm going to get the Platinum 24 today for these reasons:

Price is actually less on Platinum 24 vs Deluxe 30 through HD.

Hand warmers, quick chute, auto trak diff. (read up on the hilliard website about the diff. - think I understand it now. Thnx DavidNJ)

24 will store easier.

24 will take a few more passes to complete the job than the 30 (a little more time to enjoy using the new toy!)

DavidNJ said that in the store that Remote locking Axle seemed "iffy".

Amazer praised his Platinum over his deluxe and made good sense.

Everyone says not to worry about the Briggs 249cc engine.  It may be made by Briggs in China but at least it has ball bearing crank journals.

And finally because Snowmann told me to!  He provided a wealth of technical info and using all of my criteria was able to steer me toward the proper machine.

Thanks to all of you.  This forum was of great assistance especially when there are very few local dealers in my area that carry quality products.

I don't recall saying it is 'Iffy'. Just, their are 5 ways to turn: wheels always locked together, one wheel always in freewheel with pin removed, one wheel toggled into freewheel with hand lever (Ariens Deluxe 28/30, Simplicity), differential powering wheels to a minimum of output shaft speed (Ariens Platinum/Professional, some Deere), operator controlled momentary left/right/both freewheel (some Toro, MTD/Club Cadet/Troy-bilt, some Husqvarna). Reports are inconclusive of which is best with no reported disadvantages to the last.

Sorry DavidNJ, didn't mean to misquote you.  Here's exactly what you said: "The Deluxe has a release on the left side only. In the store it seemed a little erratic;".  Anyway, I don't want to have to worry about stopping every time I need to engage/disengage the axle lock mechanism.  There's my reason for going with the Auto trac diff.  If it's good enough for the Pro models I'm sure its probably pretty good. 

I tried the Hillard AutoLok on a Deere 1330SE today...it wasn't bad. There wasn't any snow, but it seemed easy enough to handle.

In the end the dollars and sizes are fairly small; over the next 15 years you will be spending 'quality time' with it for hours in bitter cold weather with a piercing wind. The Platinum Ariens should serve you well.

slinger wrote:

I guess it's tough to pony up the $$$ if you don't have it. I figure it's a huge savings over a plow if it lasts 10 years and the plows do an awful job and leave a lot of snow behind as well. For us we needed easy to use and reliable and cost while a factor was less important that being able to blow the driveway easily and without back breaking effort. The Briggs motor work very well no complaints with it yet. The dual triggers and the quick chute make doing the driveway a breeze for me. Just buy the machine you prefer and like to use teh best since it's a 10+ year decision.