Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Has anyone used the little Toro Power Clear 180 yet?  It has the 87 cc engine 4 cycle engine on it. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq7759jaD1o

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=92530

I just bought one to use on my deck. I will let you know when we get some snow.

joed wrote:
Hi,

I bought this unit last year to clear a path for the pooch and for the walkways where I can't get my Toro 8/26 into. I can't believe how nice this little machine works, I mean I spent a lot of time clearing out the walkways and dog path for years by hand, I dreaded it after an enjoyable time doing the driveway with the 2 stage, finally bit the bullet to get one of these little guys last year to make the whole snow clearing process enjoyable and not too much work. This little machine is amazing, it even throws wet snow but you have to go slow(better then shoveling it!!) light fresh snow is a breeze, easy 10-15 ft throw with 6inches sometimes 12 inches on the ground. Well worth the money for a smaller drive way or for decks, walkways etc. I haven't needed to use it for EOD, nor will I chance it, I think that would be pushing it. Anyways, that's my take....ENJOY the new toy....Happy Holidays

joed wrote:
CORRECTION: I have the last years version, same size , same engine, no safety stop lever or chute control stick..I also got the electric start version and I can see noooo need for it, prime it 2-3 times and fires on the first pull all the time.

woweh - I believe the unit you have is the "powerlite" - a long running model made by Toro that is very highly regarded by just about everyone that's used one - myself included. I believe it is superior to the 180 based on what I've seen so far.

From the videos that I've seen, I don't see that the 180 is worse than the powerlite.  I have confidence in Toro coming out with a new model that is larger, heavier, and 4 stroke engine that would at least equal or surpass the 10 year old design of the Powerlite.  I have used the powerlite many years ago and liked it for it's small size, lightweight, and power.  However, when the snow gets deep, I often wished that it had more biting power and wider path.  I think the new Powerclear 180 is designed to address those two wishes.  In fact, the new housing styling seems to give the model the appearance of a well built machine, unlike the utilitarian low rent look of the old model.  While some might not care for the red brick look, there are spouses that might actually use these machines that appreciate svelte curves and power bulges.

Superbuick, you seemed to be quite knowledgeable with Toro's and two stroke engines.  Your posting on the subject matter is quite useful and convincing.  If you were a salesman, I would have bought a Toro 221 and recommend it to the rest of my neighbors.   However, as I said before, I think the engineers at Toro have been quite busy at work to bring out a new model that would make us anticipate how well it can handle snow.  As they have impressed many of us in the past with the CR, CCR, and the 3650 series performance, there's is no reason why they would let us down now, barring any doubts of the origin of the engine.  I think the new Powerclear 180 will impress us again, although with initial teething pains.  However, that is to be expected, and Toro has been known to take care of issue.

superbuick wrote:
superbuick,  yes that is the unit I have. Thanks for the correction. I am sure the 180 will be a hit just like the 2 stroke powerlite!! Hoping for more snow these upcoming weeks, especially for Christmas!!! See ya

aa335 - I see your points with regards to the styling design of the snowblower - certainly it is more appealing to the eyes.  However I disagree on two points - the width and the weight.  The original powerlite was so successful and such a hit because it combined light weigh (37lbs) with amazing power (98cc 2 stroke) and a small width.  Changing these dimensions and specs (less power, more weight, more width) is a classic case of marketing study dilution.  Its like the case of the Honda Accord, the BMW 3-series, or so many wonderful sports cars.  Marketing studies show that when asked  "were you to add something to make XYZ better, what would it be?", customers inevitably will suggest something that it doesn't have (more space, more seating, more cupholders, a softer ride, etc).  Objectively speaking, all of these wishes are OK, but when added to the smash-hit original product, they dilute the essence of what made it a smash hit.  The original accord was light, reliable, handled well, and simple.  The new ones are big, fat, handle like a big marshmallow, and are overly complicated and difficult to work on.  Same thing with SO many other vehicles and products (not to rip on the accord - I just lament every new iteration as it drifts further and further from what made it so wonderful to begin with)  I see the same things happening with snowblowers.  The powerlite was just fine the way it was - and thats why it sold so many and you read review after positive review.  The few negative reviews were "it doesnt handle deep or heavy snow!".....uuuhh....its TINY....its not meant for that....  It did what it was designed to do, and very well.

That being said, its not specifically the Power Clear 180 that I take issue with - its the direction that Toro and others are taking.  Bigger, dumber, and more complicated.

You are right about the Accord.  I think the best driving one was 1993 Honda Accord, love the agressive shifting automatic transmission.  The 1994-1997 Accord were more comfortable but lost a lot of steering feel and automatic transmission was lazy.   The 1998-2001 Accord were too floaty for my taste.  The V6 engine has anemic bottom end torque and wheezy top end horsepower.  These last 3 generations of Accords got larger and larger to accomodate American growing belt sizes, ie the seats got wider and flatter.  It was great for carrying passengers but bore the hell out of the driver.

Back on topic, the jury is still out on the new Toro Powerclear 180.  Let me know when you add this one to your collection and provide an honest side to side comparison to the old standby Powerlite 325.  Your reviews are greatly appreciated.  *wink*

I'd get one myself but if I buy another snowblower, my wife will sign me up for SA.  "Snowblower Anonymous".  That might be bad, surrounded by others with the same affliction.  hehehe.

I think the key is to look at SCCA road racing and autocross - used to be Hondas everywhere - now you'll never see anything new save for a sporty civic or an S2000. GM is making a big comeback - look at any road race and you'll see new GM cars all over the grid, doing well too. Of course you have contingency money, but us race drivers don't just drive for money - we drive to win too. I certainly would love to get the chance to try out the new PowerClear 180 - If I do I'll certainly post a review here.

Yes, the Civic and the S2000 are the only two Honda models with any sporting intentions/pretensions.  The rest of Honda lineup are people/stuff movers.

I picked up a Power Clear 180 today to go with my 1130 SE Deere.  I'm only planning to use it for the smaller quantities of snowfall.  Can't wait to try it out.

You got a great combo.  If you have a curved brick paver walkway, the Toro 180 also serve well as a trim snowblower.  It is easy to maneuver and follows the curves nicely.  Plus, it is gentle on the bricks. 

Looking forward to your feedback on the Toro 180.  Don't be shy and use it on just the light fluffy stuff.  Go ahead and take on those windrows.  :)

Thanks, I'll try to give it a workout to see what it can do.  I'll post the results if we get snow in the near future.

Well I tried out the Toro 180 today.  We only had an inch of snow, but I thought I would give it a try.  I'd have to say that using it with only an inch is useless.  Instead I used my snow shovel to push the driveway snow into a deep windrow that stretched across my 3 car width driveway.  I started up the 180 and used it to blow the windrow off the driveway.  It worked pretty well and seemed to have plenty of power for this job.  Next I'd like to try it out with more than an inch of snow.  I'll report an update if that happens.

This morning I blew several piles of snow that were 6-10 inches deep and about 15 feet long.  The snow was neither fluffy nor wet today.  I would call it a medium weight snow.  The 180 blows this very well.  I used a second pass to scrape down to the asphalt.  I measured the distance thrown with a tape measure and the majority was thrown 20-23 feet.  Distance thrown is very dependent on the volume.  If you aren't throwing much snow the distance is very short.  If the volume is high it throws the 20 plus feet.  Next I cleaned the sidewalk and pretty much had the same results.  I did notice the rubber paddles can put rubber marks on the cement sidewalk if moving too slowly.  My experience is limited, but my opinion at this point is mostly positive.


Pros:
* Power seems very adequate for this snow.  Wet snow is TBD.
* Throwing distance is good.
* Starting - Pulling the recoil is very easy and has an electric starter as a backup.
* Unit is extremely light.
* Chute is easy to adjust.
* Price seems reasonable.
* Handle folds to make a very small footprint for tight spaces. 
* Small size fits into small places.  This could be a pro or con depending on your needs.  In my case I like the small size because it fits under the handlebars of my 2 stage.

Cons:
* The 180 is too small if this was my only blower, but this is totally dependent on the area needed to be cleared.  You get what you pay for!
* Choke lever seems flimsy. 
* Changing oil doesn't look as easy as it should be.  I'm probably going to add a 2" galvanized pipe to make it a little easier to drain oil.

* If blowing an inch of snow, just get out a push shovel instead.  This probably applies to most snowblowers.

* Sidewalk rubber marks.

superbuick wrote:
Well, after having seen the Toro 2450 in person, I can really see what you mean.  The newer Toros are bigger (bloated), and more complicated.  I'm not sure what you mean by dumber? 

I'm having second thoughts now, I'm beginning to like the 2450 more so than either the 221/421.  The 2450 seems to be more nimble and less front nose heavy than the 221.  Although I'm not too fond of the design of the 2450 belt cover.  Seems cheap and not integrated.

Well, we finally had some snowfall here in Grass Lake MI, around 6 inches. I bought the little Toro to clear my deck and walks, and I must say that I am quite impressed. It is the perfect little machine for the job, light weight, so it is easy to get up the stairs and small enough to get into the corners. As far as the electric start I opted to pull start, like was said, 2 primes and she started right up in two pulls, but it was the first time I had used it. Once she was warm, a light pull and she started the first time. We had roughly six inches of snow during the day on Thursday and into the early morning. Not really wet but not dry either. I broke out the Toro at 10:30am Friday morning to clear my deck, temps were in the 20's.

She cleared the snow as expected, tracked straight, did not want to pull you left or right like its bigger brother two cycle does and trew the snow a good 15 feet if not more. I did bog her a bit in roughly 10 to 12 inches of snow. She did not stop working, but I could tell she was struggling, I backed off and she then plowed right through the little drift. All in all, I am very pleased with the purchase of this little guy, as it handles its intended duties with ease.

As far as the chute, it worked with ease, no issues there. Did not try the electric start, so no comments there. The choke, yes it looks a bit flimsy, so you guys that like to slam and bang things on a regular basis will need to be careful there. Overall construction seems solid, nothing I can see that would break or fall off in normal usage. I would highly recommend this unit if you need to clear a small area or walkways. I would think it would be well suited in say an older suburban 1950's type neighborhood or for light duty work around a larger home where you would not be able to use a two stage or say a 21" single stage. I paid $399 locally in Jackson MI, and yes, it's a keeper.

Waterloo wrote:
The  flimsy lever that you see is an extension of the choke lever.  It is designed to flex and give and prevent damage to the choke lever itself. 

For the anti-plastic crowd, if this extension is broken, you can still actuate the choke lever.  If you break the choke lever, well, highly unlikely.  You're more likely to damage something more serious internally.

aa335 wrote:
Yes, I should have stated that fact regarding the choke, thank you for clarifying that. And I could see why Toro stuck that little wiggly piece of an extension on there, as I had a pair of winter shooters gloves/mittens on, and it was very easy to turn on and off with those gloves in mitten mode.

Waterloo wrote:
Yes, when I first saw the choke extension lever, I thought it was flimsy.  However, after a little bit of thought, it made sense.  Now, I don't remember how it was attached to the choke itself and how easy to replace it in case it breaks.  Hopefully it's a fastener-free smart snap fit.

Thanks for the writeup on the 180 performance.  The paddle is virtually the same as the 221/421, only scaled down.  If the 180 had the "blue" quick chute gizmo, I'd be getting one myself. 

Toro marketing department, are you listening?  Give me a 180 with quick chute and recoil start for $399 and 5 year GTS.  :)  While u're at it, integrate the deflector with the quick chute too.  :)

aa335 wrote:
Yes, the quick shoot would be nice on the 180 as it would have sped things up quite a bit for myself, especially in all of the nooks and crannies of my deck and walkways. The quick chute is something I would have paid extra for after using the one on my 221QE.

Also, it is kind of a back breaker turning the chute on the little Toro if you are tall, as the chute is right down below my knee level. And that blast of cold air up my jacket when bending over isn't much fun either. And no, my plumber side was not exposed.

Waterloo wrote:
Well, since you got that side covered, I'm not going there.  

I might have to get both the 180 and 221Q.  All reviews of the 180 have been favorable.

Bought the electric start model Dec 22, used only twice since then, today discovered it is leaking gasoline on my garage floor. Emailed Toro, they said to take it in to the dealer. Now I have to talk my wife into letting my use her minivan to haul a machine that is leaking gasoline, and take time out of my day to do it. Oh, and the shop said it will take a week to fix, let's hope it doesn't snow in the meantime.

Do not buy this machine. The external parts are cheap plastic, it doesn't plow down to the pavement, and oh yeah, it leaks gasoline after two uses. I bought a Toro on their reputation for quality. Big disappointment.

jlge99 wrote:
You must have a unit that was not put together right.  These little Toro's have been cleaning the snow right down to the pavement for the last 20 years or so, starting with the CR20 model with the same curved paddles.

External plastic parts seems to be as same quality as they have been last 5 years or so.  Better than the Powerlite that it replaces.

Welcome to the forum, sorry your first post had to be a negative review.  Hopefully the dealer can take care of the problems for you.

Mine has been working great.  BTW this little guy will fit in a trunk.  Just take out the rear chute bolt and tilt the chute flat.  The handles also fold down.  I'd just wrap it with a tarp and put it in the trunk for a ride to the dealer.

The little 180 sounds like a perfect fit for my brother-in-law. Wouldn't mind trying one out myself if I were in the market. What kind of prices or deals are you guys seeing right now? Are any of the big-box stores stocking these? BTW, my kinfolk live in SE Michigan, near Pontiac. Thanks in advance.

Seems to be uniform price fixing here in the Midwest on Toro single stage units.  Everywhere I go, it's the same price, whether it is Home Depot or independent dealers.

Home Depot in my area are completely out of stock on the Toro 180, 221Q, and 421Q.  There's plenty of 210 left though, their stripped down model that's seems to be replacing the 2450 model. 

no one having problems?

mine won't start, took it out of the box followed instructions for start up everything worked fine.

Week later it snowed, started right up worked fine for about 2 hours  then I put it away.

2 weeks later tried to start it only ran about 3 minutes and stalled out now it won't start at all.

been trying for 2 days , no trouble shoting sugestions in book, have to wait until Monday and try and take to a service center

aa335 wrote:

Not only did the dealer not take care of the problem, they didn't bother to tell me they weren't taking care of it. Called them up, they said bring it in it'll take a week to fix (!). Dropped it off 10 days ago, called today to check the status, dealer said, "Oh our guy who does the repairs is down in Florida, he'll be back in three days." Would've been nice to know when I dropped it off. I told him I'll come pick it up, bring it back to the store I bought it from (which does not do warranty service, hence I had to bring it to this place) and get my money back.

First off, for anyone inclined to shed a tear for the demise of the mom and pop hardware store, think twice. Some of them are going out of business for a reason. Second, I don't know if the "unit was put together right" or what. I only know I paid good money for it, it leaked gas after two uses, and didn't get down to the pavement as advertised. So, it fell a bit short of expectation to say the least.

Lived here in Chicagoland for 18 years, resisted buying a snowblower until now. One month, $400 and two uses later, it's been gas leak followed by trip to service dealer followed by incompetent non-service. Happy ending though -- the leaking fuel vapor didn't explode in my garage and burn my house down, and the dealer I bought it from agreed to refund my money. Lesson learned.

I'm in the Chicagoland area too.  Let me know what zip code (no names necessary) where that mom and pop dealer that did not service your snowblower promptly and I'll make a point not to do business with them.  We haven't had any serious snow in the last 3 weeks so there shouldn't be any backlog that they can't work on your snowblowers.  I just visited a dealer 2 weeks ago and they admit that they had caught up with repairs and was looking for more action.

   we are a certified toro sales and service center up here in minnesota,  twin cities area.  so far the only problem with these taiwanese engines is the carb leaks fuel  and or  they will start right away , when primed, but kill.... toro recognized this issue and a carb kit is available under warranty.... they have problems  with the "coating" on the inlet needle coming off.....   anyhow if anyone needs to bring it in for service dont let them charge you..........................................................................

....................................  tell the it under  TORO SERVICE BULLETIN   SNOW PRODUCTS   # 81...................................................

 GOOD LUCK     chris

Thanks.  This is good info to prevent dishonest dealer from double charging Toro and the customer for the same work.  It is horrendous to think that some dealers can do no work and charging.  Or doing work and double charging.

aa335 wrote:
60187

All the while my 2 stroke powerlite works wonderfully, starts on the first pull, and leaks nothing.....  The fact that it weighs less and has more power too....I'll deal with the "messy mixing of oil and gas" (riiiiiiiiiiight) any day of the week!

superbuick wrote:
That little bumblebee has been in production for the last 10 years.  I hope Toro has gotten the bugs out of it by now.  Toro did have some initial hick ups with the Rtek engine in the Toro 3650 when it first came out, something about a plastic carb and snow getting in around choke lever.  So it is expected to have some problems with the Powerclear 180 on its first production year.

Don't tempt me to buy the last new Powerlite 2- smoke in my area.   

By the way, my 10 year old 4 stroke snowblower still starts nicely, usually on 2nd pull since it doesn't have primer bulb.  It weight a LOT, 95lbs.  It's only messy once a year for oil change.  It looks like this:



The only thing that looks better is a Toro Snow Commander.

That 621 is a nice machine AA335! Honda doesn't make them like that anymore unfortunately.

superbuick wrote:
It is quite a machine.  It's in really good condition considering the age.  I've thought about restoring it to showroom status and retire it as a garage queen.  Then I'd get a Toro 421Q or 221Q to do most of the snowblowing duties.  The HS1132TAS is reserved for attacking EOD and helping out the neighbors or when snow gets higher than 10 inches.  There's just something very satisfying about seeing a 50 foot rooster tail of snow coming out of this machine.  Ranks right up there with a perfectly executed powerslide.

By the way, the HS621 is still in production (in the USA?) and but only available for sale in Canada and other parts of the world, not USA.  I guess the customer base for a $1000+ single stage snowblower is too small or non-existent.  It's a hard sell when current Toro offerings are so well designed, perform well, easy to repair, and costs a lot less.

mech12 wrote:
I didn't know Taiwan makes engines.  Say it isn't so.

They are Loncin engines made in china.

Mine has never leaked fuel, but I guess I'll need to get a float needle just in case.  This is why I like to have a fuel shut off.  Maybe I'll see if it can be added.

jerseybill725 wrote:
Precisely my trouble. Ran for about 20 minutes when new a month ago. Fresh that day gas. Tried to start it today and she coughed, chugged, puked smoke and died. No problem, just need to be quicker on the choke. Same thing: chug, chug, die. Then no chug at all. Just cranked without a pop. Tried 2 hours later. Cranking with no sign of life. Back to the dealer today.
Pete

Is this a typical problem of Toro snowblowers on its first production year, especially with a new engine?

My Toro 180 is in the shop because I had difficulty starting it and it leaked out a tank of gas. The guy working on my snowblower said that he has six other 180's with the same problem. When I brought the Toro back to where I bought it,  no body said anything about this issue to me. They just said we will take a look at it. The person working on it is waiting for Toro to get back to him. These SIX 180's that he has were not all sold at the same store. The service guy said that he put a new Carburetor in one and it was fine. It appeared to fix the problem.  I am not looking forward to using this machine again. My last toro snowblower lasted 30 years.

It's unfortunate that some are having issues and it sounds like the problem is the float needle coating which either sticks closed or open.  This causes fuel to leak out onto the garage floor or not let enough fuel into the carb and the engine won't run.  In my case I've used this little snowblower a lot as a second blower to go with my large two stage.  I like it so much that I just bought a second one to go with my other two stage at my office building.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFPVRl_9-lU

I do not have an electric start.

After a week, I got my 180 back with a new carb and carb kit. No charge. Snow is tomorrow. Bring it on!

Good luck.  Hope it works out well.

Hello all, I've been using my Power Clear 180 a few snow falls we've had so far this year. I'm now past the recommended oil break-in period, but I can't seem to find the right wrench to remove the oil drain plug. (who knows maybe all my tools are off :)

Has anyone changed the oil in the 180? And if so, what wrench size worked for you?

Celebros wrote:
I thought those look like 1/2" square.  A crescent wrench or 1/2" combination box wrench may work

Both of my 180's use a 10mm hex wrench.  I tilt the machine up before removing the drain bolt.  I push a small, tight fitting plastic tube into the hole to get the oil to drain away from the engine mount.  Then I tilt the machne back onto the wheels and drain it into a small can.

Using the tube for oil drain is a good idea.

It would seem that the toro powerclear 180 has had its share of problems with the float pin in the carb. I myself have had the mispleasure of purchasing one. December 9th, 2009 my husband and I were at our toro dealer and saw this snowblower. He wanted to buy one so I would have a managable machine while he was gone serving his country over seas. on january 4th we found the puddle of gas under it. So like alot of others we took it into the dealer and the float pin was replaced and it was covered under the warentee. but wait. we hadnt had to use it for a month but yet on feb 17th we found another puddle of gas under it. Once again we took it back to the dealer for repairs. Its still there but they were replacing the entire carb. Just have to love this machine that has been in the shop more than it has been used on the driveway NOT. Did I happen to meantion I live in michigan. oh joy gotta love the workout from shoveling. Of course there is the problem that if anyone would have walked into my garage with a lit cigarette, pipe,cigar, match etc. can you say kaboom? I did notice though most of the posts i have read stated the machines were purchased in december. hopefully this problem is limited to one lot of parts. Hey, I can dream rite?

snowdayzed wrote:
It seems there's a common trend and people have reported having the same issue around beginning December.  Seems like this affects most new users of snowblowers and new posters.  The problem you have described is potentially dangerous in any case.

The Power Clear 180 is a new model for this year so it's possible that all these were of the same production lot.  This model is not Toro volume seller so I don't expect them to run multiple production lots for 2009 year.