Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

i'm interested in buy a 24in simplicity snowblower for a driveway i'll say 60 x20 with a small slope upwards from the house. same engine and torque as the L1226E. aluminum gear case though. any kind of help will appreciated.

anyone else out there have any comments to add  thank you

jack wrote:
There are better deals for the money than this unit. Briggs Power Products has followed a business plan that involves accumulating a premium brand portfolio (Snapper and Simplicity), then placing those brands on less esteemed equipment (Murray). The true intermediate platform for Simplicity (the latest being the 860EI) was discarded years ago. So were the legacy Snapper designs. Even the "Large" Simplicity platform is heavily compromised (only the blower head remains as a substantial legacy Simplicity assembly, and even that was compromised with a change to use grease instead of gear oil in the auger gearbox). That is, this Simplicity you are considering is a red Murray. $850 is too much for this configuration. I would suggest you look around at the mass retailers. You can get a bigger 27" Brute or Murray branded (similar) machine for the same $$ (on sale) with more features (even a Snapper at Sears, they have the M1227E at sears for $899 quite often). Wallyworld, Menards, Sears....

An Ariens 24E Deluxe would be a good upgrade at $899 as well (if a headlight is a big deal to you, a kit is available). The Husqvarna-built Poulan stuff is also higher grade than this Simplicity machine if you've considered such and have that preference.

Lastly, it's not snowing much most places. Hold out for a good deal and keep your eye on the weather. As soon as snow is eminent, the deals go away...

Snowmann: How does the use of Benalene (liquid grease) compromise the quality of the gear case and components therein? Don't understand that comment. My 2006 built Simplicity was manufactured in the old Wisconsin plant. It has the cast iron gear case and the manual specifies Benalene for gear case lubricant. Does that mean that B&S had begun to compromise Simplicity large frame manufacturing back then? As far as I know, B&S acquired Simplicity some time in late 2004. Being that they de-comissioned the Wisconsin plant in October of last year, why would they alter the assembly lines to produce a different product just to dismantle it a few months later? Something doesn't sound right there. I do not disagree with your assessment of currently manufactured machines. They are not in the same class as their predecessors regardless of brand, other than the Japanese products of course. In Canada, $800.00 does not get you much of a machine. By comparison, the Simplicity in question, according to available information, is much more robust than the offerings I've seen at the large retail outlets. Take a look at the gear case on Yardman, Craftsman, Cub Cadet, Troy Built machines for instance. It looks like it could have come off a can opener. The gear case on the Simplicity machine in question is closer to that used on the Ariens than those machines. The Simplicity may be compromised but I don't believe that it's as cheaply built as many other offerings out there. I still maintain that for the money, it's not a bad buy, particularly if the OP can get a discount.

i will go to the dealer and ask about the difference in the two  thx guys

borat wrote:

Benalene isn’t liquid grease. It’s a trademark name for a type/brand of grease, like Mobilux. The NLGI number indicates its grade which indirectly affects viscosity. NLGI 0 and 00 are liquid greases. Your particular grade is not (it’s an NLGI 1). It is possible Benalene is no longer manufactured as the latest Simplicity manuals call out Lubriplate GR132, Mobilux EP1, and Shell Alvania EP1, all of which are NLGI 1 (as are the John Deere X-references).

 

Sometime between 2004 and 2006 (likely when the gear case castings changed to cast iron) Briggs switched from gear oil to grease. Grease is easy to seal (especially the higher NLGI grade numbers). The move to cast iron could have created some sealing problems (iron generally has less casting precision when compared to aluminum die cast). Grease is inferior for this application in comparison to EP gear oil. It’s an easy fix for short term complaints at the expense of long term durability. Honda, Yanmar, Toro, and Ariens use EP rated gear oil (along with large steel gears); the rest generally use grease and smaller bronze gears (it’s easier to hob the gear teeth with bronze/brass).

 

NLGI 1 grease does not flow like oil and will not provide a wet sump to facilitate lubrication. Grease will displace from dynamic parts and collect in voids and adhere to the casting walls (more so as the temperature gets colder, and no, the gear box doesn’t get warm enough to liquefy the grease in use). In time, there is a likelihood of a dry or near-dry running condition. The non-compatible bronze used on the worm gear has some forgiveness for this, but not enough over the long term. The flow capability of oil is obviously one reason (among many) why most automotive engines, transfer cases, differentials, and transaxles use oil instead of grease (highly dynamic parts). Light constituent petroleum base oils in this particular grease can also separate and dissipate over time leaving only a wax-like substrate (the lithium soap thickener). EP additives, which are the primary EP protection in petroleum based grease, can also be consumed leaving the lubricant incapable of protecting the parts (not to mention they are typically corrosive to copper which your gear and some of your bushings are made from). Lastly, in general, spur and helical gears can use lesser lubricant due to the limited localized pressure and sliding action. Worm gears and Hypoid gears need something better.

 

Unfortunately many gear cases designed for grease will not take gear oil without leaking. Where there are paper gaskets and grease seals or o-rings on grease equipped boxes, gear oil boxes use anaerobic sealant, rubber gaskets, garter-spring oil seals, etc. If it were mine though, I’d still try to top it off with synthetic 75W-140 GL5 MT-1 hypoid gear oil. The synthetic base oil handles most of the EP protection so there is no worry about additive consumption, and the MT-1 indicates good copper compatibility (amongst other things). The film strength is top notch, and the viscosity is high enough that it would slow leakage. The “pour point”, which indicates the cold flow capability, is also often under -50F.

 

I’ve seen the prices of snow blowers in Canada. Horrible. If this I1224E unit is $850 in Canada, then it is a steal. The aluminum gear box on this and other similar models is extremely close spec-wise to the Simplicity Cast Iron version - internally (although its origins are from Murray). It is not a bottom of the barrel gear case (but again, the grease…)

 

Lastly, while your 9528 unit has the corporate brand address for Simplicity posted on the machine, it may have no bearing on which of Briggs’ plants it was manufactured in (it doesn’t say “manufactured at” implicitly). For the very reasons you state, it could have been manufactured in a facility other than Port Washington, but that is just my speculation. Regardless, the assembly location would have little effect on build quality (but it could explain a small manufacturing change like using grease).

I guess the engineers at Simplicity just dont know what they r doing.Maybe Snowmann can explain as to why Ariens is always updating,modifying their modification to their modification??Can they just not get it right?Snowmann you do offer long winded technical explanations as to why Ariens does everything right.But why do so many people have complaints about their machines on this forum and others??Im not an engineer but I spoke to a lot of people who r knowledgeable about snowblowers and I was told get a Simp pro they r excellent machines.As far as Ariens,I was told they were great machines but their quality is not as good as it use to be. But I guess if i was a hack for Ariens I would be saying they r the best in all aspects like Snowmann does.P.S. Snowmann Im still waiting for the video where an Ariens throws snow farther than  a Honda.Yea I know Consumer Report says it does...

Personally, I don't think that marginalizing any brand gets us anywhere. However, considering that ALL of the domestic snow thrower manufacturers are sliding down the same slippery slope to mediocrity, it should be recognized as such. Let's face it. None of the premium brand manufacturers are making machines anywhere near as stout as they were ten years ago (except the Japanese). Pointing out that brand "A" has made compromises in quality while ignoring that brand "B" is doing similar stuff obviously shows bias. We have to come to grips with the realization that unless we buy a Honda or Yamaha, we will be getting an increasingly inferior product. I don't see that changing any time soon. This is not progress folks and it's not just an OPE thing. This new production model for manufacturing mediocre machines is becoming prevalent in much of our heavy consumer products. Appliances such as washers and dryers are not nearly half as good as they were twenty years ago but cost three times as much to buy! What's wrong with that picture? Why are the North American domestic vehicle manufacturers sucking wind compared to the Asian plants? Same reason. Producing inferior products and expecting premium prices. One would think that the recent economic crisis and everything bad that came with it, would have been a wake up call for North American industry. Sure, GM/Ford/Chrysler are all promising better products at competitive prices but lets see if they deliver. I have my doubts. The Chinese are on the same road that Japan was in the mid 60s to late 70s. Their products weren't perfect but they weren't expensive either. As we all know, it didn't take too long for the Japanese to get it right. So right in fact that they have far better quality in just about everything they build and export to our countries than what we build domestically. When China gets to the level of perfection that the Japanese did, the consequences will be very dire indeed for North American industry provided our governments don't put tariffs against Chinese imports. We will have no one to blame but ourselves. Simplicity, Ariens, Toro.... take your pick. They're all pretty much going in the same direction. The only real difference is how much you are willing to pay for the brand name your prefer on the mediocre machine of your choice. My suggestion is to pay the least you can for equivalent machines of any domestic brand. Or, find an older premium brand model in decent shape, re-power and recondition as required. Better yet, get a Honda or Yamaha. You know the Japanese put far too much value on quality to build inferior products and they'll continue that way. Price is heavy, I agree. Chances are however, that with proper maintenance, .you will only be buying one. I'm glad I was lucky enough to get my hands on one of the last well built Simplicity machines from the Wisconsin plant, (liquid grease and all). I don't care what anyone says. It's one stout snow thrower and gets the job done as good as anything I've seen with very little fuss.

My comments were not about liquid grease, they were about the NLGI 1 grease in your gear case (again, it is not liquid grease). NLGI 0 and 00 are liquid greases (there is even the rare 000). NLGI 1 is already thick at room temperature (relative to gear oil) and only thickens as the temperature drops. If you take your auger gear box apart, you can tip the castings into any orientation without grease falling out of them (I've done this with your gear case, same model, same year). "Dropping point" is a measure of the temperature at which the grease approaches the fluid state in which it will flow. For NLGI 1 grease this value is over 375 degrees Farenheit (a temperature which the gear box will never achieve and which is even in excess of the recommended usage temperature). NLGI 0 and 00 (and 000) greases do not have enough lithium soap thickener to have this characteristic, and are incrementally closer to gear oil as the NLGI grade lowers. They flow fluidly at the operating temperatures of auger gear boxes.

For cold weather your NLGI 1 grease is probably excellent in applications that specifically require extra adhesion from the lubricant. If you used NLGI 00 in ball joints, ball bearings, etc. the seals are not robust enough to hold this lubricant (not thick enough) and they would be dry in short order. This is the benefit to better retain the oil in the auger gear cases (the downside is again lesser quality lubrication). Many folks have used machines that lasted a long time with this type of grease without servicing. It's not like it's filled with sand. My point is it's not best in class, the premium brands do not use this lubricant, and the likelihood of more gear oil equipped machines still being in service 10+ years from now is much higher.

Ariens used NLGI 00 liquid grease in their gear boxes some 25-30 years ago or thereabouts. Again, this grease approaches gear lube type flow and was not much different than available gear lube at the time as most, if not all, mainstream gear oils were petroleum based. Ariens upgraded to EP gear oil at that time (EP4, followed by copper safe EP5 at a later date), and just recently synthetic 75W-140 GL5 MT1 Hypoid oil. The difference here with the Briggs/Simplicity comparison is continuous improvement. Ariens has continuously upgraded this lubricant and never downgraded the lubrication.

I would agree borat but my craftsman 5 hp snowblower is 6yrs old and havent had any problems with it.I've only had to change the belts,oil and spark plug.My moms 2005 buick LeSabre has had no problems.But my 2001 accord had to have the transmission rebuilt at 30,000 miles ,the passenger window didnt go all the way up and the car sounds like a tin can.Hondas are notorious for skimping on sound insulation.I've owned ford escorts and they were reliable cars.Also Ford is building good cars.The Fusion and Escape are getting rave reviews for reliability. 

wow this is a great discussion simplicity or ariens my dealer sells both