Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I know that this has been brought up many times before, but I wanted to hit this one again.  Most know that Tecumseh is now bankrupt and there are no engines available and there are no plans to make any more engines at this point.  It doesn't mean that they will never make any engines, but right now nothing is for sure.  Ariens was always a proud user of the Tecumseh snow king line of engines.  How would you feel about buying an Ariens with a Tecumseh engine in it right now?

I was in Home Depot this weekend and saw the latest batches of the 927LE.  These new units came with Briggs Snow Max engines that produced 13.5 foot pounds of torque and sold for $1050.  .  The Ariens web site does not reflect this change yet.  I think the Snow King engines are very nice units that have proven themselves in the field or in this case the snow.  The other reason to use Tecumseh for Ariens was always a marketing way to differentiate themselves from products put out by B&S, including the B&S name plate, John Deere, and Simplicity to name just a few (I'm sure there are many more).

When I think of snow engines I personally think pretty simplistically.  I think of the Tecumseh, B&S, Honda and the many Chinesse engines no matter who's name plate is on the sheet metal.  Would love to hear your comments.

Rick

borat wrote:

Toyota came out with the Camray in 1983 and that model continues to flourish today.  By contrast in 1983 I bought a Chevrolet Citation (mid sized family car).  Chevrolet made the Citation from 1980 to 1985.  Then they replaced it with the Chevy Celebrity which was produced until 1989 when it was replaced by the Lumina, which was latter replaced by the Impala.  

Detroit strategy was to launch a new model every few years which meant that brand loyalty was impossible.  I loved my Chevy Citation but it's hard to be a repeat customer or recommend a model thats out of production.  Toyota's strategy was to stay committed to the Camary model and simply keep making it better. Obviously someone that bought a Toyota Camary in 1983 and loved it can still be a repeat buyer and a brand advocate.

I see the same problem with current US snow thrower companies.  Ariens, for example, comes out with a virtually new model line-up every other year or so.  Two years ago I bought an Ariens 11528 LE...today that model doesn't exist so I can't recommend it to anyone.

Paul7 wrote:
Not exactly. You bought an Ariens Deluxe. They still make Ariens Deluxe models.

Even taking a small (and short) random snapshot in time 2002-2006 (per Wiki), the Camry had 4 different available engines, 5 different transmissions, and base trim, SE, SE Sport, LE, SLE, XLE version, a 2 door convertible version, styling updates, etc. (and none of the yearly offerings were exactly the same in any given year).

Seems the same to me.

PK

Paul7 wrote:
We buy all of our vehicles new and run them for a long time.  The Toyota strategy worked for this household.  We've been driving Toyota's for thirty years.  The last North American vehicle I bought was a pick up back in 1986.  As per usual, it was nothing but trouble.  My wife was driving a seven year old Toyota that was less trouble than my new truck.  As soon as Toyota started making bigger pick up trucks, I bought one.  I've never looked back.  I could afford to buy North American vehicles, just couldn't afford to operate them.  They've lost this customer for life.

Today's global automotive market killed all the old "Jap vs US vs Euro" car stuff. You have vehicles from traditionally japanese labels engineered, designed, and manufactured outside of Japan, and Fords with more european content and design than US. Mazda Tributes are Ford Escapes. Hondas are made in Ohio, and Chevies and Toyotas roll off the same assembly line in California. It's been decades since Volvo was a Swedish company.

You can't say one country makes better/worse cars. One period last year, the Mercury Milan beat EVERY Honda in JD Power Quality rankings. Just like our beloved blowers, you have to go by the individual model, not the brand.

I liked it better the old way.

Bill_H wrote:
Not to knock Fords or Mercury's, but the JD Powers rating is "initial quality". Fit , finish, and first blush impressions. It says nothing for long term durability. Remember when the Renault Alliance was the Motor Trend car of the year? (and the cars were sold with that exact proclamation on a banner in the window). It also made the Car and Driver's Ten Best. They were all in a salvage yard in short order.

PK

I don't drive awards or publications.  I drive vehicles.  I know what my experience has taught me.  I've learned valuable and expensive lessons in automotive ownership.  Lesson no. 1:  A vehicle that needs less repairs tends to be more readily accessible and inexpensive to operate.  Lesson no. 2:  Lower initial price of vehicle is not necessarily a bargain if that same vehicle will cost many thousands of dollars more in repairs over the long run. 

All four of our Toyotas combined over a period of thirty years of ownership were  probably 1/10th as costly in repairs than one of my North American vehicles.   In addition to that, I always had a Toyota in our own garage at night rather than in the repair shop.  It's a defining moment when you get up to go to work in the morning, go to the garage and remember your transportation is in getting fixed AGAIN but the wife's old Toyota is in the garage.  You'll need a ride to work again.  After a few of these events, one begins to connect the dots....  I connected them a long time ago.

i just bought a Toro 1128 OXE with an OHV Tec engine this fall. I am very satisfied with it. I did not buy a Honda 928 WAS due to the price and the risk of repair problems with the Hydrostatic drive over time. I'm hoping Toro's straightforward drive system will turn out to have fewer and less costly repair problems.

A local snowblower dealer told me his guess is that the people who bought Tecumseh tried to sell the small engine business separately but could not find any buyers at their asking price, so they announced they were going to terminate the business. He predicted now that the business has been thrown into distress someone will come in and buy it at a fraction of its previous value as a going concern, and revive it under the same or a different name. He thought the manufacturing facilities and equipment were just too valuable to be fully scrapped and abandoned.

Bottom line, he thought Tecumseh's line of snowblower engines would be continued in some form and there would be parts and repair service for present Tec engines in future years.

Snowmann wrote:
Two years ago the Deluxe models like my 11528 featured the remote lock/unlock lever.  The 11 hp Deluxe model today has a differential.  A pretty significant difference making brand model comparisons difficult and confusing. 

As far as the cars go the Citation, Celebrity, Lumina and Impala also all came in multiple versions.   The difference being that I can still buy a Camary. 

Snowmann wrote:
Heh, reminds me of the Consumer Reports controversy for the Plymouth Horizon "Car of The Year - Unsafe?" in the late 70's.  Then Nissan' small trucks got trashed by CR for horribly expensive repair costs in minor collisions. Nissan's answer? The "Hard Body" campaign. Never fixed anything, just worked on the image and the average consumer bought the hype.  Just FYI: JD Power actually goes for 3 years on quality: http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand

Let's face it, they all suck. "Make a buck this quarter and sell another in two years" seems to be the motto. Cars, DVD players, lawnmowers, tools, phones, guns, trucks, snowblowers, whatever. The "built to last" mentality is disappearing in everything except for a small niche market that is shrinking too rapidly and getting too expensive.

I think I'm turning into a bitter old b*st*rd.

Ah Bill, I would have left this thread alone except to read it with interest until you included guns in the "not built to last" list. Some manufacturers still believe in building quality firearms. Ruger especially comes to mind...