Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hello!

This is my first post and I would appreciate any thoughts you might have based on your experience with two-stage blowers.

We built a house two years ago that has a concrete driveway (about 120' long) with an exposed aggregate border. The aggregate also forms the walkways for all three front entry doors and the garage apron. I have been using a Toro single stage for the last two years and have struggled at times with the amount of snow we receive here. We had over 100" last year and I felt every bit of that. We live in a lake effect snow belt so get blasted quite regularly. Given the direction of the prevailing winds the snow accumulates around our three car garage and entry areas and can be as high as 18" or more. I find with the single stage Toro that I am reblowing the snow repeatedly (as the turnaround area is longer than the snow can be blown) just to get it cleared.

After two years of this I've decided that a two-stage would be a better answer to this problem. However, my initial forays into local dealers have turned up several issues. First of all, we have an exceptionally nice (expensive) concrete driveway and several dealers have warned me that the skid shoes on a two-stage blower can scratch the driveway with repeated use. They've also indicated that the scraper blade could be a problem with the exposed aggregate. I've been abble to find a polycarbonate alternative for Ariens but have had no success with the scraper blade. As yet, I have been unable to locate non-scratch skid shoes or scraper for the Simplicity I'm interested in.

I am now also concerned with about a two-stage from a clearance perspective. If I set the blade too high (to avoid scraping) I could be leaving a significant residue on the blown surfaces. This was not an issue with the single stage Toro. This would not normally be a problem but I sold my SUV this year in favor of a rear wheel drive car. While I've ordered winter tires and rims, I'm concerned that leaving too much snow on the driveway will result in a slippery surface or ice buildup that could become problematic. My driveway has a 15 degree slope that adds to the problem. One dealer suggested that I use salt to eliminate the remainder but I believe the landscaping around the driveway would be adversely affected by this solution.

I guess I'm interested in two things. First, does a two-stage blower leave scratch marks on a concrete driveway? (from the skid shoes and/or scraper) And second, how does a two-stage handle a significant amount of exposed aggregate? Is the only solution raising the blade to a level where a significant amount of snow is left behind?

I was really looking forward to a two-stage blower but now am not so sure. The problems they impose may be larger that the challenges I currently experience with the single stage Toro.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and assistance.

PS I skimmed all threads in the forum back to 2005 and could not find an answer.

You should buy a single stage or one of these:

http://ariens.com/products_snow/s_powerbrush_528sb_overview.aspx

Thanks for the reply. I already own a single stage (see above) and that doesn't seem to be the answer.

What are others experiences with permanent scratches/scrapes on concrete from steel skid shoes and scrapers? Anyone else been able to use a two-stage blower successfully on exposed aggregate?

Thanks!

One of my neighbours has a paved driveway. Nothing special, as is the neighbour, but he treats the driveway as if the second coming is expected to happen there. He uses a snowblower for fear that a plow will scratch it up. Although I've no use for the man, he did come up with an ingenious method to keep from scratching his driveway. He took an old white plastic cutting board and cut little strips out of it. He bolted/screwed them on the bottoms of his skids and heated them up to bend them to the curve. Something like that might work in your case too.

Just a thought.

John

  anything you use will leave marks on the driveway.  i am in minnesota.  we had a lady stop in and complain her new yardman was leaving rusty marks from her skids on her drive.    i made her a makeshift set of skids from some old plexiglass glued together.  the didnt leave any rusty marks but they left marks still.  kinda like a wax crayon.  so my suggestion is to mount a set of wheel in place of the skids.   the old sears used metal   say 1/4 tick 6" around .  somewhere i found an idea for a system that used wheels and say a mini shock absorber that laid behind the blower housing.    how much money do you want to spend.    maybe a heated drive may work for ya......

You could hog out the polycarbonate skids to fit
your machine hole positions. That will leave a new
inset area of the original size plus the hogged out
area. Put in a backer plate inside the newer wider
bolt channel to fill the area. The backer plate
will be the width of the original inset area plus
the hogged out area.
Then use a longer flange bolts possibly with
washers to go through the backer and poly holes.
I assume your driveway is very flat seeing it's
so nice. Given that you should be able to set the
skids just high enough that the scraper will not touch
and clear all your snow.

Thanks, Mech12 that's what I was afraid of. While I'm not anal about my driveway like JohnnyBoyUpNorth's neighbor, my wife and I are planning to retire in this house and want to maintain its appearance as long as possible. While I don't look forward to managing large snow days with a single stage, it seems the only option for the time being.

One final question, I currently have a Toro 3650 GTS that I bought 8 years ago. Are the new Toro single stage units like the 421Q 4-cycle an improvement over that model?

Thanks!

I've got a sealed, patterned concrete driveway. While my rusty skid plates don't mark it up (unless it sits in direct contact and rusts), I noticed that chains on the tires would occasionally scratch it. So I ditched the chains. I like the idea of the poly plates and will probably replace mine this year with those.

As for the scraper, I set my plates up so that I leave a snow base that I like to build up a few inches for the winter. It protects the driveway and there's no concern about it scratching.

I would never let a commercial plow come on the driveway. Oh, and I only use a plastic shovel (well, I use an Al one sometimes, but am careful with it). And no steel ice-chippers!

Brad wrote:
A bit late, but we've been using two-stage blowers on a gravel driveway for twenty years.  Generally we keep the skids down (i.e., scraper up), so we're never clearing all the way down.  For light snows, especially early season, this clears enough that the remainder will melt or sublime in a day or two.  Once we have a heavy snow, it remains packed down and it's safe to raise the skids.  As long as it remains as packed snow, traction is fine, but if we have moderate temperatures (28-40), the surface will turn to ice and become treacherous, forcing us to sand it.  It helps to have an AWD car, but we still have to walk the driveway for mail and trash.

We don't have a problem with the snowblower destroying the driveway.  It's very rare that a rock will come through, but that's mostly a problem of denting the blower.  I can't remember the last time we had to add material to the driveway, other than right up against the garage.  It helps to have a good driveway mix, such as star pack, containing both stone dust and stones, compacted down.

I've been getting some feedback regarding some older machines with distances between the bolt centers that prevents the Roller-Skid from fitting on the side of the auger box.  Simple solution: drill a new hole 3" from either the front or back existing holes!  In my humble opinion... I think you'll be happy you did!   If you want to get a set of these things go to SnowBlowersDirect.com under Accessories.  $29.99 per pair.

Use a two-stage for your big snows and set the scraper bar as high as you need to avoid scratching.  Then go back over it with the single-stage unit to clear down to the driveway. 

I've used the Ariens "plastic" skids.  They work well, except I think they are a little too wide - they tend to ride up over packed snow rather than cutting through it.  I have a plain concrete driveway and I set my scraper bar by putting a couple of paint stir sticks under it.  That will pick up almost all of the snow without scraping directly on the concrete.

longboat wrote:
Thanks for that tidbit of information.  I'm machining my own poly skids on the Bridgeport for the Honda and I made it wider and larger than Arien's version.  We'll see how it performs as far as tracking and riding up the snow.  I can always fine tune the shape of the skid's contact area after some snow trials.

How did your Ariens plastic skids hold up in terms of wear?  I can only guess at this point if it's riding on concrete and brick without a layer of snow to act as lubrication, it will wear out quick.

rafdog wrote:
I looked into these and would have bought a set if they fit my CC SWE930. But the bolt centers are 4-1/2". Too far for the product. Too bad. I would have liked to try them.

JimmyM wrote:

You may want to double check that: https://sites.google.com/site/rollerskid/

4. Fits machines with 2-3/4" and 3" bolt centers

The Roller-Skid fits machines with both 2-3/4" (MTD, Troy-Bilt, etc.) and 3" (Ariens, Toro, John Deere, Craftsman, etc.) bolt centers.

DavidNJ wrote:
I already measured the bolt distance. It's 4-1/2 inches.

aa335 wrote:

Sorry for the slow reply...

The plastic skids held up surprisingly well.  Not sure if I'll keep using them or try going back to the thin metal stock units.  One variable that fogs the picture a bit is that I installed a cab at the same time that I installed the skids, so the cab may have taken some weight off the bucket; however, even lifting up on the handlebars didn't seem to help keep the plastic skids from climbing up on the snow.  Maybe for the next snowfall or two, I'll try a plastic one on one side and a stock metal one on the other side to better evaluate - will post if I find any definite conclusions.

An example of the handlebar design issue.

It's not the handlebars, but the larger footprint of the polyethylene skids riding up on the snow. He did say that lifting up on the handle bars to negate the weight of the snow cab did not help.

....deleted double post...

"however, even lifting up on the handlebars didn't seem to help keep the plastic skids from climbing up on the snow."

Its the handlebars. The correct design for moving snow--in contrast to moving the snow blower when not plowing--lets you press down on the grips and the scoops stays planted. It is a matter of geometry. On the Husqvarna Crown (I didn't try the base model) I could press with my weight on the grips and the nose stayed down. It was a 24", less than 50# on the nose.

longboat wrote:

No problem. Better late than never. Like I said before, I've changed the shape of my poly skids because I suspect my skid design may ride up on snow more readily because of the larger footprint, and potentially wander more. I suppose it's a tradeoff to lessen the pounds per square inch loading on concrete/pavers to prevent damage to the surfaces. Your information is helpful for me to have somewhat of a basis to dial in the shape. Thanks. Looking forward to hearing from you with new findings.

DavidNJ wrote:

I think you're over analyzing this a bit. Two things were changed, the poly skids and the snow cab was added. The handles stayed the same.

His observation on the behavior the snowblower was from actual snowblowing session, and I would take his word for it since I don't see any compelling reason to dispute it. It seemed very plausible and reasonable.

I don't have any information on his handlebars to discuss the hypothetical potential impact to lead me to that tangent.   If I were a betting man, I put my money on center of gravity.

Nice looking Husqvarna by the way. Good set of large modern grippy snow tires.  Bucket oh so shiny and clean. The color is on the warm side, a bit much of Ariens' orange. :) That's a tall bucket with equally long drift cutters. I am partial to the classic and timeless symmetrical teardrop bucket shape of the Ariens and Honda though.

A cab shifts the center of gravity, as you indicated, and in practice, acts as a sail when the environment is windy. Some cab kits come with nose weights, others recommend or require them.

However, the comment was "lift up on the handlebars". Key word was "Up".  That is because the Ariens grips are 4" further rearward, and pointed slightly down. Force on them overwhelmingly goes to rotating the nose over the rear wheels. Lifting up is unloading the rear wheels more than it is loading the nose.

On the Husqvarna the grips are pointed about 18° up to the front. the rear of the grip is also 1.75" higher. The Simplicity/Deere is similar, but not higher. Pressing down on them loads the rear wheels and minimally unloads or doesn't unload the nose.

Deere and Ariens pictured below:

I'm not sure why a solution is looking for problem, but I'm not going to hijack this thread. 

Feel free to add to relevant discussion to the original topic.

aa335 wrote:

I think you could make the skids longer, but try to keep them as narrow as possible. 

If the stock metal ones cut through the snow better, I'll look at cutting down the poly skids to make them narrower and still get some good use out of them.

The blower in question is an '06 Craftsman (MTD) 928 w/ Clarence kit (which did help quite a bit).  It didn't matter which way I pushed on the handlebars (up, down, sideways, caddywumpus, etc.) the poly skids seemed to ride up on snow much more than the stock skids.  The cab is an Ariens and works wonders for keeping the snow off my neck, but it did quickly develop a crack in the plastic windshield where it goes from vertical to horizontal (must be the -20 temps I usually blow in).  I actually like being able to push down on the handlebars to lift the bucket so I can easily make 180-degree turns (got the dual finger triggers that unlock either wheel).

I had posted here a year or two ago about how my driveway had brick inlays that played havoc on the skids and scraper bar (needed to remove as much snow as possible since it has a good long slope - dangerous with ice).  I got the bricks torn out this last summer and 5" concrete put in place for a nice smooth driveway (~3000sf) - looking forward to blowing snow this year!

Brad,  It's pretty new... but you might want to take a look at the NEW Roller-Skid replacement skid that it just now hitting the market.  Instead of a steel or plastic skid that is designed to grind down... this gadget ROLLS.  It was originally designed to simply make the job easier, but ended up having several other important advantages.  There is a pretty nice little installation sheet that is included that does a pretty cool job of showing you how to set the scraper bar at the correct height when installing the Roller-Skids.   Because it's made of 1/4" thick 30% Glass -Filled Nylon it is extremely durable and because it ROLLS it doesn't scrape and scuff your driveway and walkway surfaces... and it won't leave rust stains on your garage floor.  Even the axles and hitch pins are made of stainless steel!  You can see a short video at https://sites.google.com/site/rollerskid/.  You can buy them at SnowBlowersDirect.com  http://www.snowblowersdirect.com/Raftery-Design-1250/p5415.html  I understand they will begin shipping around November 1st.

If anyone has these I'd like to know more. my metal skids are already worn out on one side, gotta be flipped. I just wonder how durable these are as the steel skids wore down quite a lot in just one winter. I guess scraping tar for hours at a time will do that.

rafdog wrote:
Rafdog,

The design looks promising.  Clean and simple.  Any chance you will make this product to fit a Honda snowblower?  It takes 2.36" bolt centers.

On a side note, I'm not sure if you read the terms of use, but this self promotion may not be allowed.  Just saying...

Just thinking out loud... but it might be easier to simply drill an additional hole 3" from either the front or back hole on the side your auger box and mount the Roller-Skid.  In my humble opinion... I believe you will be happy you did.

DavidNJ wrote:  DavidNJ and JimmyM,

Drill a new hole in the side of your auger box on a 3" center and bolt on some Roller-Skids!   It'd be a whole lot easier than machining a big skid from an expensive block of plastic... that's eventually just going to wear down anyway.  Go to SnowBlowersDirect.com > Accessories > Non-Abrasive Skids.  $29.99

rafdog wrote:
Yes, easy to do.  However, I'm not all comfortable putting additional holes in my snowblower at this point to try out this new roller skid.  I will have two holes near each other which will be weakened unless I reinforced with a backing plate on the inside and outside of the bucket. 

Your invention seems like it will work, I just wonder how long it will last.

Brad wrote: