Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I'm looking into a snow blower/thrower.  I live in upstate NY (near Albany) and would estimate we get about four to five storms a year with about 8".  There are the rare NorthEasters that may drop 15" every three or four years.

My driveway is on about a 3 degree grade, one car length in width for about thirty feet, then it opens up to about three car lengths wide (in an L shape) for about twenty feet.

Is a single stage thrower too small, or will it work but just take more time to clear the snow?

I see CR reviewed models recently and liked the single stage Toro CCR-2450 which I can get online (free shipping, no tax) for $537 at SpeedWaysales.com.

The two-stage model they liked was a Craftsman 88790, which Sears has on sale for $949.

I would love to hear what people think about the two-stage versus one-stage, especially if you live in the Northeast near Albany, and what models you think are the best.

Lastly, I HATE maintenance, and the Ariens web site scared the bejeesus out of me with their maintenance section (You must tighten the drive belt after 20 hours of usage.  Then in the drive belt section it says, "Be careful, if this is not done right you may be injured or killed").  

SnowRemover wrote:

First of all, I think about an 8 bhp 2 stage is minimal to do a deep (15 inch) storm easily, but you can do it with a lesser engine - it will just take longer and you will have to take it slower. If there is an big EOD (drift) to contend with, get a bigger machine or you _will_ regret it.. I don't get all that much snow, but my EOD mountain would be a bugger to remove with a single stage thrower.

As far as the 20 hr adjustment is concerned - think a minute. Five storms a year on your little driveway for maybe 30 minutes per storm is not that much run time. If you have to adjust the belt after 6 or 8 years, who cares? Have a shop do it. The actual adjustments aren't at all hard - the warning is just legal BS from their liability department. If you are careful and follow the manual you won't have any problems.

I love my Ariens 926DLE and wouldn't want a lesser machine for what you described.

John

I live in your neck of the woods (near West Sand Lake) and at least where we are, have had some heavy duty storms during the past few winters. This year has been odd to say the least. I would recommend that you get a 8 HP two-stage and based on what I have read in this forum go with an Ariens, Toro, or Simplicity.

SnowRemover wrote:

Check out HD they have ariens on sale....

Robert

OK,

For $1,300 I can get the top rated Toro 828LXE (free shipping/no tax).

That said, for $40/storm, I can get a guy to come over and snow blow my driveway and walk.

Now let's assume 5 storms a year (where a thrower is really needed - I can shovel 4" or less without a problem).  That would be $200/year in having someone else do it.  Add in costs for operating a snow thrower, and I would argue it would take seven years ($1,400) for the snow thrower to pay for itself.

How long will a Toro last (it comes with a 3 year warranty)?

According to the National Weather service, my area gets (on average) 15.7" snowfall in Jan, 13.2" Feb, 11.1" Mar & 13.4" Dec.  Now most of our snowfall in a month should come in more than one storm, so on average I shouldn't see too many 8+" snow falls.  I've seen other people say that a single stage is enough for less than 8", but I have a big driveway (even if John doesn't think so ) it's the biggest in a neighborhood of 120 homes.

WHAT VALUE DO YOU PLACE ON BEING ABLE TO DO IT YOURSELF AT THE TIME YOU ACTUALLY NEED IT DONE WITHOUT WAITING FOR THE DUDE TO MAKE IT TO YOUR HOUSE. WHAT ABOUT EMERGENCIES THAT COULD COME UP BEFORE HE CAN GET THERE? I DON'T WHAT IT'S WORTH BUT I AM SURE IT'S WORTH SOMETHING TO YOU? IT WOULD BE WORTH A WHOLE LOT TO ME.

Sorry for the caps.

Marshall wrote: That was kind of what I was asking you guys?  Is it worth it?  Is single stage Toro enough?

Hi...


Go ahead and try a single stage and see how you like it...

Ask local equipment dealers if they have a demo unit you can try...

If not... buy one...

You can always sell or keep it and get a 2-stage if needed...

1-stage will be good for the smaller storms at least... and it never hurts to have more than one machine ! 
Right tool for the job... 

Dave...

SnowRemover,

            I would sooner buy the Craftsman 8HP, Murray built blower for $699.00 than buy a single stage blower. It has an

8Hp overhead valve engine, which folks tell me is equal to about 9.6 Hp in a flat head engine.

It should handle any thing you get in your area!!

                                                                             Fred

Snowremover, by the way, welcome to the forum! 

Ok, I would highly encourage you to follow the advice given so far.  This is not the piece of equipment that you should be looking to cut costs on.  Where you live I guarantee you will regret your decision and eventually have to pay for the machine you should have bought in the first place.  Now that will cost you.

Yes Welcome!

C

Snowremover....I've already PM"d some info to you.....

What kind of units do your neighbors have??  Talk to them and get the pro's and con's as they see it.  My perception is that a 2 stage will be a better fit.  Self propelled, better for EOD, able to easlily handle the big dumps.

The singles are probably quicker to use, they're very nimble.  Take up less storage space.  Easily handle the 4-8 inch storms.

The overall question of whether you can justify one or not.  Like Marshall said, who wants to wait on the snow dude?  You can do it when you need it done.  No more shovelling those storms of 4" or less like you were talking about(Think of the time savings not shovelling).  I don't know how old you are, but if you can affford it, living where you do, by all  means go for it.  It will quickly pay for itself and if it saves you a heart attack along the way......well, PRICELESS. 

Hate Maintenance? Buy a HONDA!

928WA (wheels) or 928TA (Tracks!)

Think more like 12-15 years of ownership.

Yes, they are worth it (but can be bought for less than MSRP).

hickster

Snowremover, a single stage would handle your needs. It is a personal choice, and there are pros and cons with both single stage and 2 stage. With a single stage you will need to clear your area more that once in bigger storms in order to keep up with it, especially when it comes to the EOD. If you are willing to do this, I would consider the Toro 3650 which is only about $70 more than the 2450. The Toro Snow Commander rules in the single stsge machines, but more money. Good luck, and let us know what you decide on. Dave

My famouse Quote is " OVERPOWERED IS USUALLY ADEQUATE".

I have used both style machines, and for now my main machine is 11.5 hp two stage. For the money, in that area, a 2 stage makes a lot of scence. If you pay a little more, and get a POWERFULL machine, you wont regret getting a machine that isunderpowered and takes along time to do a job, when your running short on time and patients.

I have a friend that lives in $#%*ton Spa that had an older small frame two stage Toro.I think it was 5 or 6 HP. He said it did the trick but he always felt like he could have used more horsepower. Especially at the end of the driveway. I live in Orange County NY and went with an overkill of 11.5 HP. But I help some of the older neighbors out as well.

You're in the "snowbelt" of NYS so I would recommend a large frame two stage with a bare minimum of 8 HP. I always like to go one size higher than I really need so that would be 9 or 10 HP depending on what is offered in the brand that your looking at.

Then when the nor'easter hits you will be removing the snow with ease without struggeling.

I like the Simplicity Brand and think they are worth the extra bucks.....even if you have to streach the ol' wallet a bit....you won't regret it. But a good Toro or Ariens DLE will work too.

                                                                                                                       Dan

I'm down to two models - the highly rated Craftsman 9hp two-stage for $949, or the not so highly rated (by Consumers) Ariens 8.5hp, on sale at HD for $900.

Is there a consensus?  I like the craftsmen's turning ability (little handles under the main handle) to help turn the unit in one direction or the other.  The Ariens doesn't have that.  However, will the Craftsmen last 15 years? 

Thoughts appreciated.

The Ariens for me...

I'd take what Consumer's says about snoblower ranking with a grain of salt...


Dave...

SnowRemover wrote:
As Dave has already stated and many others here will agree  (Fred will definately be defending the Craftsman thoughand thats OK!) the ariens will be the way to go.  If I'm looking at the right Craftsman, the 88790, shown here:

Those "little handles, under the main handles" are actually the ONLY handles.  The things on top are levers to engage the drive wheels and the auger.  This unit does have power steering that will increase your manueverability.   This unit is made by MTD, and some here will argue that the better Craftsman are made by Murray.  There are many here who also believe that the Briggs motor is superior to the Tecumseh that this model has.

As the Craftsman go, many here believe this unit is the "Best Buy" of the bunch.  It is a Murray built unit with the Briggs OHV

Now many others will prefer the Ariens,  better built, longer lasting, all steel construction, backed by a consumer concerned company.  They will also tell you to buy it from a dealer not a box store.  Agent Orange(Home Depot that is, NOT Ariens!) does not service what they sell.  You'll still be going to a dealer for help, why not put the money in his pocket on the front side of this transaction so that you're already on his good side when you need to go see him for service?  Likely the Ariens will do a better job for a longer period of time!

You can find an Ariens dealer by clicking here


I hope this helps!


PS     I agree that Consumer reports doesn't represent an accurate long term view of any of the products they review.   They look at upfront costs, initial performance at very common tasks, not taking into account longevity, servicablility, or performance at extreme demands.

I echo Dave's point.  Consumer Reports looks at features and entry price for their rating.  What they don't look for is construction and longevity.

The Crafstman unit you are looking at is made by MTD.  We have beat this horse to death over on the old forum so I will summarize, it is not the machine for a person who lives in a snow belt.  You need to buy a Premium machine for where you live and buy if for the what-if storms you WILL get. 

You are afraid of the Ariens maintenance we have never touched my Dad's 96 924 STE, except to change the oil.  It has been serviced for the first time this year.  It has always run perfectly. 

Emmo has led you to the water, it is now time for you to have a drink.

C 

ChrisS wrote:
Dave and Chris,

Great minds............

I agree that the Ariens is the way to over the long haul in the Albany area. When you buy from Home Depot you'll just need to make sure the assembly steps outlined in your manual were properly carried out and you'll need to do the inital run-in for the belts (as per page 12 of your manual). If you need helpful advice as you go along you'll find plenty on this forum.

One other Ariens plus...

Parts availability for old (and Newer) equipment...

Some manufacturer's stop parts support after several (7?) years...

Example: ~ two years ago I bought a used 1960's Ariens snowblower...
Contacted Ariens and got the original Owner's and Service manuals for it... copies of course...


Dave...

OK, if I go with the Ariens, how do you turn the unit around?  Do I need to keep the wheel lock clips out to make turns?  Do i have to pick it up and shove it?  Can my wife (petite) use this unit.

This is where I'm confused - handling.  Consumers gave Ariens its worse rating for maneuvarability.

Any unit with the pin-lock system, regardless of make, will be more difficult to maneuver than one with power steering or a differential.

Most get along just fine with the wheel pin lock out.   Only one wheel drives the unit allowing the other wheel to spin freely allowing you to turn it around with minimal effort.  You would pin both wheels for that "Huge dump".  Others pin both together all the time and just man-handle it.  It is much easier to man-handle on snow or ice covered surfaces as opposed to a dry showroom floor  or driveway.

Or if you want the ultimate,  Click here


It has a differential gear box that allows free steering, easy to maneuver. OHV engine, remote chute deflector,cast iron gear box, etc.etc

You should be able to find it for less than MSRP.

Snow, Dude, you can't go withe the MTD where you live.  If your wife is going to be using it then look at the Honda 724 WA/TA's which are lighter or one of the smaller Ariens or Simp units.  They will still be hard to turn for her but will be small enough for her to handle also.  The 926 DLE Emmo mentioned is THE machine and she will be able to turn it with it's differential easily.

C

Snowblowers are easier to turn on the snow...

You can "muscle" the machine to turn sharply...
...or...
...use reverse & forward to turn it in smaller increments with less physical force...
...or... easier yet...
...keep going forward while turning in a wider arc that you/she feel comfortable with...


Dave...

I would recommend the Ariens over the Craftsman for your area and would rather go to an Ariens dealer( not Home Depot ) and get the 926 DLE. The cast iron gear case and differential steering are well worth the extra money in your neck of the woods. 

When the "Big" storm hits you will be happy to have spent the extra dough.

                                                                                                                Dan

"The 926 DLE Emmo mentioned is THE machine"

Now we're talking about $1350 or more.  I could buy a 9hp Craftsman and a single stage Toro for small jobs at that price.  I'm trying to keep it under a $1,000.  From what I'm hearing, the Ariens 8526 won't be easy to handle if I'm at work and my wife wants to clear the driveway.

No one can show any statistics that the Craftsman is less reliable, it's all "word of mouth", yet I can't find any more posts about Craftsman problems than Ariens or any other company.  Many people state their Craftsman is running great at 15, 20 or more years. 

If I didn't want the finger control steering available on the Craftsman for $949, I could get a 9hp Craftsman for $699.  And if I buy an Ariens at HD, they don't service it, so I have to go to a local dealer who wants $1,049 for the Ariens that HD has for $900.

Ariens is just too confusing to buy, too much maintenance without "risk of death", difficult to use without male hormones, Ariens dealers won't let me return the unit if I don't like it (Sears will),  and for $150 I can get a 5 year "in home" protection plan with unlimited service calls (raising the price to $1,100 vs $1,049 for the Ariens at the dealer).

The Ariens is only a 3 year limited warranty -  requiring "The purchaser must perform maintenance and minor adjustments explained in the owner's manual." or the warranty is voided AND I have to haul the unit (not exactly light) to a service facility for repairs.

So, unless someone can show me where my numbers, stats and facts don't add up, I think the Craftsman is the way to go.  I know the Ariens owners need to defend their purchase choice (like all the Chevy Cavalier owners) but the facts just don't add up to get an Ariens.

OK Snow,

Then get the Craftsman.

C

I haven't found my 11528 DLE too difficult to turn with both wheels locked. If you have an asphalt drive I don't think you or your wife will find the smaller 8HP unit too difficult to turn with one wheel unlocked. That said, if your gut tells you to go with the Sears and service warranty, I'd go for it.

You asked and we replied,  I guess our collective knowledge and experiences don't add up to yours.

Enjoy your Consumer Reports special.

personally worked on some of those New SEARS units with the cable actuated snow deflector. I think that is the weekest part of the machine. Some have come from the factory all botched up. A traditional hand crank, of the speed crank Ariens usus, is simpler and more reliable.

Briggs Engine and Ariens would be my Ultimate machine.....

Emmo wrote:
Whenever one is in a discussion and puts themselves in a position of superiority, it means their argument holds no water.

SnowRemover wrote:
Someone came here with an agenda.

Hi...

Answering a few of your points/questions...


"No one can show any statistics that the Craftsman is less reliable, it's all "word of mouth"..."
That's what is given here... "word of mouth" advice/opinions... mostly from experienced snowblower users... some from experts... some from others...

"Many people state their Craftsman is running great at 15, 20 or more years. "
Same with other brands...
... but like most any outdoor power equipment... today's machines are not built the same... a close inspection will reveal some of the differences...  some are obvious... like plastic discharge chutes...


"And if I buy an Ariens at HD, they don't service it, so I have to go to a local dealer who wants $1,049 for the Ariens that HD has for $900."
Buy it at the Depot if you want... any Ariens dealer will service it... possibly other OPE dealers too...

"Ariens is just too confusing to buy, too much maintenance without "risk of death",..."
"The Ariens is only a 3 year limited warranty -  requiring "The purchaser must perform maintenance and minor adjustments explained in the owner's manual." or the warranty is voided AND I have to haul the unit (not exactly light) to a service facility for repairs."
Is the Craftsman blower maintenance free ?
Dealers usually offer pickup/delivery for a fee...

"Ariens dealers won't let me return the unit if I don't like it (Sears will)..."
This is a plus... how about Home Depot taking a return ?

"... for $150 I can get a 5 year "in home" protection plan with unlimited service calls ..."
I suggest you read the fine print... ...and ask what the guarenteed turn-around-time is...
I doubt this plan includes "normal maintenance and wear items" that you dislike about the Ariens...


Deliberate often... decide once...

I know it's not EZ deciding...

Please let us know what you choose...


Dave...

Marshall wrote:
I did not come here with an agenda.  I came hear to ask people their opinion.  If simple questions like how do you move the snow thrower without finger controls is something that can not be answered, but the next sentence is "Sears is crap, Consumer Reports doesn't know what they're talking about, take my word and buy the Ariens", what should I be thinking? 

Don't confuse lack of a cohesive argument on some (not all, some) members posts with me having an agenda.  I can still be turned, if someone can articulate (and maybe provide some reliability links) with why the Craftsman is not all it is cranked up to be.

      SR,

     I like Murray or MTD machines for where I live. However if I lived in heavy snow country,

I would buy Ariens, Toro, or a Simplicity Blower. Which ever brand I chose, I would buy their top of the line!!! 

Just my 2 Pennies worth!

                                               Fred 

Dave_in_CT,

Me: No one can show any statistics that the Craftsman is less reliable, it's all "word of mouth"..."
You: That's what is given here... "word of mouth" advice/opinions... mostly from experienced snowblower users... some from experts... some from others...

And I whole heartidly agree.  So saying, my Ariens has been running great for 30 years is wonderful.  But when I also read, the Craftsman are not as reliable, but this person isn't a Craftsman owner and can't point me to one shred of evidence, I have to question their reason for doing so.

On reliability you questioned plastic discharge chutes...
I've heard others say the paint chips off the steel and it rusts.  I've yet to hear someone saying the chute broke.

You said: Buy it at the Depot if you want... any Ariens dealer will service it... possibly other OPE dealers too...
Good Point, thanks.

You said: Dealers usually offer pickup/delivery for a fee...
Not if I don't buy it from them (Home Depot).

Me: "Ariens dealers won't let me return the unit if I don't like it (Sears will)..."
You: This is a plus... how about Home Depot taking a return ?
Another good point.

Me: "... for $150 I can get a 5 year "in home" protection plan with unlimited service calls ..."
You: I suggest you read the fine print... ...and ask what the guarenteed turn-around-time is...
I doubt this plan includes "normal maintenance and wear items" that you dislike about the Ariens...

The guy across my street has a Craftsman and they have a 48-72 hour turn around time.  If he fails to maintain the unit, the unit is still covered by their warranty - unless he fails to add oil.

Thanks for the good pointers.

SnowRemover wrote:
By coming here and posting a question, YOU empowered the forum into a postition of superiority.  Do you usually ask questions of those whose opinions or knowledge you don't respect??!!



SnowRemover wrote: Emmo wrote: Any unit with the pin-lock system, regardless of make, will be more difficult to maneuver than one with power steering or a differential.

Most get along just fine with the wheel pin lock out.   Only one wheel drives the unit allowing the other wheel to spin freely allowing you to turn it around with minimal effort.  You would pin both wheels for that "Huge dump".  Others pin both together all the time and just man-handle it.  It is much easier to man-handle on snow or ice covered surfaces as opposed to a dry showroom floor  or driveway.

Guess I wasn't clear enough!

You have been all over the place in terms of blowers. You came here looking at a Toro single stage 2450 and a $950 Sears unit.  You've talked about spending $1300 on a Toro 828XLE.  I suggested an Ariens  926 DLE (Which is a Pro model and is heavier built)which many members have been purchasing for about $1350 and that makes me a jerk?


SnowRemover wrote:
Guess what......until JD Power starts rating them, we're stuck with C.R.  That doesn't make them right.  I trust personal experiences, friends, neighbors, co-workers far more than CR.  They all use things in the real world for extended periods of time. CR doesn't.  My .02!

NONE of us told you to buy  the "Lexus" (well Hickster did, and it wasn't a bad suggestion ie the Honda)  but since you do live in snow country and didn't want to be bothered by maintenance (let alone a breakdown) we were trying to steer you away from the "Cavalier" and at least get you into "Toyota" territory.

Sorry for all of the bad advice!

I'm done.

We are to provide you advice, we did. You don't like it or if it's not what you expect, we're sorry. How about using common sense and looking at these machines in person if you don't believe, it should not be thrown back on us to prove a negative of which is clearly seen in person.  

Go forth and ye shall see.

Marshall,  

                       Amen brother!!

                                                                      Fred

Marshall wrote:
That's all I was asking for, and for the most part I got it.  Everyone one this forum was fine until I posted this:
I'm down to two models - the highly rated Craftsman 9hp two-stage for $949, or the not so highly rated (by Consumers) Ariens 8.5hp, on sale at HD for $900.

After that,  EMMO responded "Now many others will prefer the Ariens,  better built, longer lasting, all steel construction, backed by a consumer concerned company."

Interesting because while Sears will fix it in my house for 5 yrs, Ariens requires me to bring it back to the dealer.  And the statement better built got me to thinking "How does he know?".  Should I be slammed for asking the next obvious question - who is this person and what data/information do they have to support his argument?

ChrisS pipes in and says "The Crafstman unit you are looking at is made by MTD.  We have beat this horse to death over on the old forum so I will summarize, it is not the machine for a person who lives in a snow belt. "

Once again, why is he saying this.  Can he point me in the direction of unreliable Craftsman?  I sure can't find any Craftsman owners (any more than Ariens) on this site who are complaining, so he is obviously getting his information somewhere else.  However, it is also common for people who own a particular brand to downgrade anything with similar/more features at less cost, proving to themselves they made the right purchase decision.

Jonathan joins in saying " I agree that the Ariens is the way to over the long haul in the Albany area."
Once again, WHY!!!

Then I ask " OK, if I go with the Ariens, how do you turn the unit around?"
Emmo responds "Any unit with the pin-lock system, regardless of make, will be more difficult to maneuver than one with power steering or a differential."

So it seems, if I'm going to get less with an Ariens, reliability is the final determinant.  I'm cool with that, but now tell me, where this lack of Craftsman reliability comes from?

ChrisS again pipes in to say "If your wife is going to be using it then look at the Honda 724 WA/TA's which are lighter or one of the smaller Ariens or Simp units.  They will still be hard to turn for her but will be small enough for her to handle also.  The 926 DLE Emmo mentioned is THE machine and she will be able to turn it with it's differential easily."

So it seems, if I want an easy to handle Ariens, I need to get a $1,400 unit - out of my price range.  I'm back to comparing the $1000 Ariens with the $1000 Craftsman.

Dave_in_Ct was nice enough to state: "You can "muscle" the machine to turn sharply... ...or......use reverse & forward to turn it in smaller increments with less physical force...
...or... easier yet......keep going forward while turning in a wider arc that you/she feel comfortable with..."

I really appreciated that, because now I'm leaning more heavily towards the Craftsman, but who wants a product that will break after a couple of seasons.  No matter how easy it is to handle, its going nowhere if its broke.

DantheMan chimes in with "I would recommend the Ariens over the Craftsman for your area and would rather go to an Ariens dealer( not Home Depot ) and get the 926 DLE."
WHY, WHY, WHY!!!  Can people at least back up their opinions?

I respond back asking "No one can show any statistics that the Craftsman is less reliable, it's all "word of mouth", yet I can't find any more posts about Craftsman problems than Ariens or any other company.  Many people state their Craftsman is running great at 15, 20 or more years. "

ChrisS sophmorically replies  " OK Snow, Then get the Craftsman."

Jonathon, on the other hand, makes a simple valid point "That said, if your gut tells you to go with the Sears and service warranty, I'd go for it."

Emmo gets all defensive and says " You asked and we replied,  I guess our collective knowledge and experiences don't add up to yours. Enjoy your Consumer Reports special."

MountainMan made a good point specifying some of the work he's done on Craftsman.

Marshall accuses me of coming here with an agenda.

Dave_in_CT makes some good points, but if I save the money at Home Depot, I lose the support from the Ariens dealer (the pick up at my home support, which he won't put in writing).

Emmo attacks back saying "Do you usually ask questions of those whose opinions or knowledge you don't respect??!!"

To which I reply, I ask questions to gain more information.  I don't know you people, so how can I respect you?  I want to see if you make a point you can back it up.  Otherwise, I have to conclude you are NOT someone I respect  and the information you bring is, at best, questionable.

I came here to get information.  As soon as I tried to delve deeper into your collective knowledge, most of you turned to attacking me.  Maybe they should rename abbysguide to AriensGuide, it would make a lot more sense.

SR,

        I feel slighted!!  You left me out of your " Tirade".

I said if you live in heavy snow country, buy the Ariens, Toro, or Simplicity.

Also said buy their top of the line machine.

What other advice do you need!

                             Fred

SnowRemover wrote:

jubol wrote: "ChrisS pipes in and says "The Crafstman unit you are looking at is made by MTD.  We have beat this horse to death over on the old forum so I will summarize, it is not the machine for a person who lives in a snow belt. "  EVEN FRED, THE BIGGEST CRAFTSMAN BACKER ON THIS FORUM, DID NOT THINK THAT A CRAFTSMAN WAS FOR YOU."


I included you in my "Tirade"  Fred!!

Snowdude,

As I said, you came here asking for opinions, you got em. If you're requiring MTD Craftsman complaints you will not find many of them here because, there are very few MTD Craftsman owners here. Geeze, the assumptions you made are partly why I accused you of having an agenda and the other reason is becuase you became extremely defensive of the Craftsman and started dissing the Ariens and in turn, dissing everyone that's tried to help you. That looks like someone with an agenda to me and I'm still not convinced you don't have one. And, having an agenda doesn't necessarily mean it's bad thing but, taking those you're asking for help and throwing their opinions around with no care, isn't the best way to make friends and influence enemies.

Be that as it may, you have the members responses and information. Take them and use them or throw them away, your choice.

Good luck

ps thanks dave

Go to the old WTB forum.

Click on the search option.

In the "Search For" Type "MTD"

Leave user name blank.

Go to "Max days from last Post" and in the "days" area change 7 to 365.

Go to "Display How many results" type 300.

This reading will give you the "horse" for this year that I was referring to, it is up to you to do the work, not me.  I've already done it.

You can also type in to the "Search For"  "Junk" and get some useful info also.

"ChrisS sophmorically replies  " OK Snow, Then get the Craftsman.""

That was not "sophmoric" that was me assuming that you made up your mind and telling you to get the machine you like.

You have not  liked what you have read here and I am beginning to wonder why you came here....

My last bit of advice is that I recommend that you spend some time tonight reading the posts over there on the old forum before you buy.

My advice has remained the same for years, research the machines, on line and in person, pick what you feel is best for you, buy it take care of it and be happy, if you do that regardless of what you buy I am happy for you too....

Good luck and Best to you Snow....

C

EMMO,

        Thank you for including me, I feel so left out!

  I have an MTD blower, which for me for  where I live is like hitting a tack with a sledge hammer.

   I use it about 1 to 2 hours a year. So it should last me 20 to 30 years with good maintenance! Murrays would be overkill here also!

                           Fred

I think I'm starting to have deja vu all over again.....

Didn't we do this whole dance at the old place not too long ago??

Emmo wrote:

Yes......We did.......

C

Original poster...

I understand you asking WHY? WHY? WHY?....  wanting details to back up information/opinions  given...
I'm very detailed orientated... and like knowing the finite facts...
I can get them... if I put in the effort to uncover as many as I choose... just as you are starting...

Folks here are not trying to sell you a particular brand/makemodel of  snowblower...
...no hidden agenda...

People who responded... put in quite a bit of the time and effort on this one post...
All for free !
...although our commission on Ariens is more than Craftsman brand  $$$     LOL...


If you want details... details... details... backing up the opinions given here...
I dunno' how you will proceed to do this... some suggestions have been given...
It may be time to go and check out 1st hand...

Most don't provide all the details of  WHY? even though you wanna' know...
I'm 1st in line...

It's just too time consuming to answer the WHY? in detail hundreds of times from different posters...


At some point we were asked to choose between 2 machines... We all know which one won the vote-of-long-term-value... and best-potential-fit for you...
...even if we don't understand all the details behind it...


Choosing a shovel will be easier...

Dave...

Hi SnowRemover,

I was going to suggest that you call some local small engine repair places that don't sell machines to get their opinions based on their repair experiences, but now I second Richie's post. Going back to your original post you indicated that you didn't want to do be concerned with doing maintenance. Having the Sears in house protection plan will take care of that for you. You will also have time to look at other brands, compare workmanship, weld quality, metal thickness, etc. while you are using the Craftsman. You will have a well maintained machine that can be easily sold via Want-Ad Digest or the TU if you decide to go with another brand or get another Sears. Now let's get some snow.

Dave_in_ct

In choosing a shovel would you recommend a snow shovel,sand shovel, square nose, or spade?
Long handle or short??
Fibre-glass or wood??
Straight handle or d-shaped
Ergonomic or regular??
Straight or curved blade??
Plastic or metal??
SSSSSSSOOOOOOOOO many choices !!!!! Not much time will snow someday????

(ALL IN FUN!!!!!!!!)   HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!!!!

T.J. terry

Dave_in_CT,

Thanks for the information.  It seems everyone was a lot nicer after my tirade.  You did say "People who responded... put in quite a bit of the time and effort on this one post...
All for free !"

I spend countless hours on experts-exchange.com helping people for free with their programming problems, so I know what its like.  I also spend a lot of time on the car/truck bulletin boards, and I will never berate a brand or specific vehicle model without evidence of the problem (backed up with a link to the story/article).

Now I know that there is a ton more information on cars than snow blowers - or my Google searches would have provided much better results.  The only reliability stats I can find on lawn equipment is in CR's buying guide.  Craftsman is highly regarded in everything (and so is Kenmore), but there isn't any information on snow thrower reliability.

From what I can tell, I get all the features I want in the Craftsman, I get the Service contract and if its anything like there lawn mowers/garden tractors it will be very reliable (though the Honda's are even more reliable, just cost twice as much).

I do appreciate what effort people have been put in, but don't enjoy (as a newbie) being called "Snowdude".

Lastly, and this is partially off topic, on another thread in abbysguide a person asked about computers.  I provided a link backing up my assertions, the Administrator (Peter) who was arguing the other point, removed the whole topic.  And the guy throwing names around on this topic is a Full-Moderator accusing me of an agenda (Marshall).

So I can't apologize for going off on a tirade when supposed Moderators and Administrators are berating me and deleting posts/topics (this after I complained no one backs up their statements - then I do it and get the whole topic removed!).

I'm done ranting.

Hey, this site is currently in beta mode. For a while, the Lawnmower forum was the end-all place to post things, but as we are going live tomorrow, we are removing irrelevant topics and moving others to their proper homes, now that all of the sections are up and running. Since there is no computer board, the entire topic was removed. As I explained in a private message to you, once the computer section is up, you can discuss things there to your heart's content.

SnowRemover wrote:

One of my neighbors  bought a Crafstman with the plastic chute last year and it broke during  the first storm.

Another neighbor bought a Crafstman a few years ago with the in home protection plan and had a lot of trouble with it.  The 48 to 72 hour turn around time turned out to be a week and it didn't help much since the machine broke twice during storms.   He got so upset he went back to Sears and tried to get them to take it back.  They ended up giving him a 10% refund.

By the way I have to say I like your pragmatic approach to deciding which machine, if any, is right for you.  My advice would be to get someone else to clear your driveway.  You seem to have a fear of machines and if your not the type of person who can do minor repairs and make simple adjustments your probably getting in over your head with a snowthrower.  They work in a harsh environment which means they'll break. And they'll most probably break at the worst possible time.

Edited: Removed my personal opinion on Crafstman vs Ariens.

Snowremover, You like to call em as you see em, I decided to take you up on it. Why don't you like it? It's how you came across!

You never did say you were going to go to Sears, Ariens, Simplicity, Honda, Toro, etc. and look at the differences in person. Not everything can be done on a computer screen.

You don't like to maintain and service them yourself? 3 year service contract? What are you doing the 4th year and beyond. Gonna trade it in and buy another, service it yourself, pay someone to service and fix the 4 year old MTD or renew the agreement at the then current price on the old MTD?

I just got off the phone with Sears and learned that the service agreement is for 3 years on all lawn and garden equipment, snowblowers included. You know that it doesn't cover oil and filter changes, spark plugs or blades if it's a mower, correct? That's the vast majority of your maintenance! Oh, they'll do it but they'll charge you $50 bucks. You know it may take up to two weeks (max) for them to come to your place to fix your snowblower too, right? Maybe it will wait to snow for two weeks after it breaks?

So, for the price of the Craftsman plus the service contract price, give or take, you could have a Premium machine that has a history behind them of longevity and great performance. You still have to do your own maintenance regardless which way you go. The warranty on the Ariens, for example, is three years, the same length of term you're covered for if you pay extra for the service agreement.

So I guess you get either an MTD that someone drives to your house to fix, and pray they actually get to you first or, for the same money, you get a premium machine and have a machine that has better odds of serving you reliably for years to come.

Quote........

"""Lastly, I HATE maintenance, and the Ariens web site scared the bejeesus out of me with their maintenance section (You must tighten the drive belt after 20 hours of usage.  Then in the drive belt section it says, "Be careful, if this is not done right you may be injured or killed")."""

I guess you're assuming this won't be needed on the MTD? If it is needed, I hope it's not needed right before it's getting ready to snow and you're waiting on the Sears man to come.

 And finally, Consumer Reliar magazine doesn't test snowblowers for 7-15 years to come up with an opinion, they don't have the longevity factor figured in at all, if they say they do, it's a mere guess. Frankly, I'm not so sure about there testing for the days they actually do it.

I could care less which you buy but, I suggest you listen to the majority of these dudes on the forum that have been doing this for many, many years. It's their experience they are giving to you, not their ego!

SNOWREMOVER, Consumer Reports 2005 Buying Guide-Page 301-#4-Craftsman 88790 "CR Best Buy" (meaning value for what you are paying, not overall quality best buy), Last place in the 2 stage catagory-#12 Craftsman 88700. Page 302 last place in the single stage Gas Snowblower category #20-Craftsman 88140. They do not appear anywhere in the electric category. I am reading my data and statistics and am seeing Craftsman rated at best 4th place, and then last throughout the rest of the report. This is not to say that they do not work, and/or work well; it is just not showing well as a brand in the C.R. report. However, I also agree with the others and you should follow your gut, otherwise you will never find contentment. Thanks, Walt

I tried to past some stuff from the old forum and it didn't post right here.

Nevermind anyway. Buy the Craftsman. It's what you want.
hickster

My advice would be to get someone else to clear your driveway.  You seem to have a fear of machines and if your not the type of person who can do minor repairs and make simple adjustments your probably getting in over your head with a snowthrower.
--plugger

Nice first post - though I would bet my house this is only your first post under that user name.

I've ripped trannies out of chevy's, old datsun's.  I know my way around any pre-pollution car, especially those with points (anyone remember messing with points?).

You bring nothing to this topic except for venom and spit.  Now go away.

glad to see chopper made it over.................

Marshall,

Sorry I didn't actually say I looked at the models.  I went to Home Depot and spent an 1/2 hour with a guy who said he owned the Ariens 8526.  I used my neighbors Craftsmen 88790 to clear my driveway a week ago.

AFTER looking at the models and using one of them, I came here.

I hope that clarifies everything.

Marshall wrote:
As stated in my previous post, Sears will cover the Snow Thrower for $150 for five years - in home service.  Simply go to their website and add any snow thrower to your cart.  Then you will be given the three or five year protection plans.

And you're completely missing my point.  I have no problem doing maintenance.  But the Ariens manual clearly, undisputably says, if you screw up the belt maintenance it can cause injury or death.  Doesn't that mean that the belt assembly, if it breaks will destroy the housing surrounding it and possibly kill the person using the machine!  That's the only reason the Ariens service worries me - poor housing surrounding their belt assembly.

But the Sears protection plan gives me piece of mind if the unit is not of "high quality".  What if it breaks down, as many hear feel MTD products are not up to Ariens quality - now, for the same price as the Ariens, the unit will be repaired or replaced for five years.

Marshall wrote:
This is exactly the attitude of people hear.  Knock on a product by implying one is NOT premium, but give zero evidence to back up the claim.  Is this site run by Ariens?  Funded by Ariens?  Can you back up your implication that the Craftsman is no of premium quality, or are you just full of hot air?

Plus, as mentioned in the post above, the Craftsman will give me 5 years in house warranty compared to the 3 of Ariens. 

Marshall wrote:
I'm not hear to back up CR's reporting.  But they've never lost a lawsuit - so putting Liar in their name is baseless.

But your post clarifies everything I've been saying about baseless, uninformed arguments.  Where are your facts!

Marshall wrote:
Sure, you could care less.  Just get on the phone and spend your time calling Sears for something you could care less about.  Even your lies are bad.

here's an idea..............

buy what you already talked yourself into.............

if it gives peace of mind to buy craftsman , then you'll love your machine.............

bill

Walt wrote:
Walt - good points.  The #1 rated blower was the Toro, but HD (at least the two in my area) don't stock it and can't order it for me.  The local dealers want $1,350 for it, and then add 8.25% sales tax = $1,461.

Now, speedwaysales.com has this unit for $1,294 with free shipping and no tax.  If I bought the Craftsman for $950 and added $150 for the 5 yr plan = $1,100 + 8.25% tax  =$1,190.  For $100 more I can get the top rated Snow Thrower instead of the 4th highest rated unit.

Now you've got me thinking...Toro might be the way to go.

Hahahaha, 4 post in a row to me, must have made great points, got him flustered as hell. 

Snowdude, take your agenda, your rant and the fight you're wishing to pick somplace else. There's much to say but  frankly you're not worth the time. Buy your Craftsman and get your three year plan, read CR until your hearts content, keep trolling websites trying to push Craftsman over Ariens as you've done before and will attempt to do again. I know who you are and so do the others.

Now you've got me thinking...Toro might be the way to go.

Please dont do that!
All of the dealers throughout  North America are out of stock of the model your are looking for and they will probley never stock it again. They may even stop making them altogether.
Sears sounds like a much better option for you.