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SnowRemover


Toro 828LXE

Location: Near Albany, NY
Joined: Jan 12, 2005
Points: 139

How Much Power Do I need
Original Message   Jan 12, 2005 1:56 pm
I'm looking into a snow blower/thrower.  I live in upstate NY (near Albany) and would estimate we get about four to five storms a year with about 8".  There are the rare NorthEasters that may drop 15" every three or four years.

My driveway is on about a 3 degree grade, one car length in width for about thirty feet, then it opens up to about three car lengths wide (in an L shape) for about twenty feet.

Is a single stage thrower too small, or will it work but just take more time to clear the snow?

I see CR reviewed models recently and liked the single stage Toro CCR-2450 which I can get online (free shipping, no tax) for $537 at SpeedWaysales.com.

The two-stage model they liked was a Craftsman 88790, which Sears has on sale for $949.

I would love to hear what people think about the two-stage versus one-stage, especially if you live in the Northeast near Albany, and what models you think are the best.

Lastly, I HATE maintenance, and the Ariens web site scared the bejeesus out of me with their maintenance section (You must tighten the drive belt after 20 hours of usage.  Then in the drive belt section it says, "Be careful, if this is not done right you may be injured or killed").  
This message was modified Jan 12, 2005 by SnowRemover


It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!
--Friedrich Nietzsche
Replies: 43 - 52 of 71Next page of topicsPreviousNextNext page of topicsAllView as Outline
jubol


Location: Dover, De
Joined: Oct 3, 2003
Points: 1558

Re: How Much Power Do I need
Reply #43   Jan 13, 2005 4:22 pm
SR,

        I feel slighted!!  You left me out of your " Tirade".

I said if you live in heavy snow country, buy the Ariens, Toro, or Simplicity.

Also said buy their top of the line machine.

What other advice do you need!

                             Fred

Husqvarna STE927(11.5HP) snowblower,  MTD Pro Series 18/42 Lawnmower, MTD 6.5 HP  Self Prop Lawn Mower,  Weedeater 1500 Blower, Web Gensis  2000 
Emmo


Joined: May 22, 2003
Points: 1065

Re: How Much Power Do I need
Reply #44   Jan 13, 2005 4:50 pm
SnowRemover wrote:
That's all I was asking for, and for the most part I got it.  Everyone one this forum was fine until I posted this:
I'm down to two models - the highly rated Craftsman 9hp two-stage for $949, or the not so highly rated (by Consumers) Ariens 8.5hp, on sale at HD for $900.

After that,  EMMO responded "Now many others will prefer the Ariens,  better built, longer lasting, all steel construction, backed by a consumer concerned company."

Interesting because while Sears will fix it in my house for 5 yrsFOR AN ADDITIONAL $150., Ariens requires me to bring it back to the dealer.  And the statement better built got me to thinking "How does he know?".  Should I be slammed for asking the next obvious question - who is this person and what data/information do they have to support his argument? I WAS TRYING TO GIVE YOU THE THUMBNAIL SKETCH OF THE CONSENSUS HERE.  I WAS SPEAKING IN TERMS OF GENERALITIES, PRESENTING BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN.  I HAVE BEEN PART OF THIS FORUM LONG ENOUGHT TO HAVE A GENERAL FEEL FOR THE RESPONSES YOU WERE TO RECEIVE. I WAS MERELY TRYING TO GIVE YOU SOME QUICK FEEDBACK. REREAD MY POSTS.  I ALSO TOOK THE TIME TO RESPOND TO YOUR PM INQUIRING ABOUT THE APPROPRIATENESS OF A TORO 3650 FOR YOUR SITUATION.
ChrisS pipes in and says "The Crafstman unit you are looking at is made by MTD.  We have beat this horse to death over on the old forum so I will summarize, it is not the machine for a person who lives in a snow belt. "  EVEN FRED, THE BIGGEST CRAFTSMAN BACKER ON THIS FORUM, DID NOT THINK THAT A CRAFTSMAN WAS FOR YOU.

Once again, why is he saying this.  Can he point me in the direction of unreliable Craftsman?  I sure can't find any Craftsman owners (any more than Ariens) on this site who are complaining, so he is obviously getting his information somewhere else.  However, it is also common for people who own a particular brand to downgrade anything with similar/more features at less cost, proving to themselves they made the right purchase decision.  IT IS ALSO POSSIBLE THAT THE MAJORITY OF CRAFTSMAN OWNERS ARE NOT AS "INTO" THEIR OPE AS THE REST OF US.  FOR THE MILLIONS OF CRAFTSMAN MOWER/BLOWERS SOLD, ISN'T IT STRANGE THAT THERE AREN'T A LOT MORE LOYAL OWNERS TOOTING THE CRAFTSMAN HORN ON THIS FORUM?  I DON'T DENY THEM THEIR PLACE, BUT WHERE ARE THEY?

Jonathan joins in saying " I agree that the Ariens is the way to over the long haul in the Albany area."
Once again, WHY!!!    HE LIVES IN YOUR AREA, DID HIS OWN RESEARCH, AND CAME TO HIS CONCLUSION.

Then I ask " OK, if I go with the Ariens, how do you turn the unit around?"
Emmo responds "Any unit with the pin-lock system, regardless of make, will be more difficult to maneuver than one with power steering or a differential."

So it seems, if I'm going to get less with an Ariens, reliability is the final determinant.  I'm cool with that, but now tell me, where this lack of Craftsman reliability comes from?

ChrisS again pipes in to say "If your wife is going to be using it then look at the Honda 724 WA/TA's which are lighter or one of the smaller Ariens or Simp units.  They will still be hard to turn for her but will be small enough for her to handle also.  The 926 DLE Emmo mentioned is THE machine and she will be able to turn it with it's differential easily."

So it seems, if I want an easy to handle Ariens, I need to get a $1,400 unit YOU WERE CONSIDERING A $1300 TORO EARLIER - out of my price range.  I'm back to comparing the $1000 Ariens with the $1000 Craftsman.($1100 WITH THE 5 YEAR WARRANTY)

Dave_in_Ct was nice enough to state: "You can "muscle" the machine to turn sharply... ...or......use reverse & forward to turn it in smaller increments with less physical force...
...or... easier yet......keep going forward while turning in a wider arc that you/she feel comfortable with..."

I really appreciated that, because now I'm leaning more heavily towards the Craftsman, but who wants a product that will break after a couple of seasons.  No matter how easy it is to handle, its going nowhere if its broke.

DantheMan chimes in with "I would recommend the Ariens over the Craftsman for your area and would rather go to an Ariens dealer( not Home Depot ) and get the 926 DLE."
WHY, WHY, WHY!!!  Can people at least back up their opinions?

I respond back asking "No one can show any statistics that the Craftsman is less reliable, it's all "word of mouth", yet I can't find any more posts about Craftsman problems than Ariens or any other company.  Many people state their Craftsman is running great at 15, 20 or more years. "  
ChrisS sophmorically replies  " OK Snow, Then get the Craftsman."
DAVE POINTED OUT THAT THE CRAFTSMAN OF TODAY ARE NOT THE SAME AS THEY WERE 15-20 YEARS AGO.  THESE GUYS HAVE OWNED THESE UNITS, WORKED ON THEM ,  THEY KNOW THEIR STUFF.  HAVE YOU BOTHERED GOING TO SEE ANY OF THESE MACHINES IN PERSON?  STAND A CRAFTSMAN NEXT TO AN ARIENS AND STEVIE WONDER COULD SEE THE DIFFERENCE!

Jonathon, on the other hand, makes a simple valid point "That said, if your gut tells you to go with the Sears and service warranty, I'd go for it."

Emmo gets all defensive and says " You asked and we replied,  I guess our collective knowledge and experiences don't add up to yours. Enjoy your Consumer Reports special."

MountainMan made a good point specifying some of the work he's done on Craftsman.

Marshall accuses me of coming here with an agenda.

Dave_in_CT makes some good points, but if I save the money at Home Depot, I lose the support from the Ariens dealer (the pick up at my home support, which he won't put in writing).

Emmo attacks back saying "Do you usually ask questions of those whose opinions or knowledge you don't respect??!!"

To which I reply, I ask questions to gain more information.  I don't know you people, so how can I respect you?  I want to see if you make a point you can back it up.  Otherwise, I have to conclude you are NOT someone I respect  and the information you bring is, at best, questionable.  I WAS TAUGHT, AT A VERY EARLY AGE, THAT EVERYONE WAS ENTITLED TO RESPECT UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE.  YOU APPARANTLY CONTRADICT YOURSELF, OTHERWISE WHY WOULD YOU WASTE YOUR KEYSTROKES ASKING A GROUP OF UNKNOWNS ANYTHING?

WE DO THIS FOR A HOBBY.  THE PAY AND THE HOURS ARE LOUSY. FOR THE MOST PART WE DO THIS TO ENJOY OURSELVES AND TO HELP OTHERS.  WE DON'T SELL ANYTHING. YOU WANT SOMEBODY TO STAND ON THEIR HEAD TO "SELL" YOU ON SOMETHING, GET OFF THE KEYBOARD AND GO SEE  THE DEALERS.  POSSIBLY, SOME OF THE UNITS YOU ARE INTERESTED IN COULD ALREADY BE SOLD OUT IN YOUR AREA. .

SORRY OUR ADVICE AND INFO WERE INSUFFICIENT FOR YOUR NEEDS.

I SUGGEST VISITING SOME DEALERS, MAKE YOUR OWN COMPARISONS AND THEN MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION.







This message was modified Jan 13, 2005 by Emmo
Emmo


Joined: May 22, 2003
Points: 1065

Re: How Much Power Do I need
Reply #45   Jan 13, 2005 4:53 pm
jubol wrote:
SR,

        I feel slighted!!  You left me out of your " Tirade".

I said if you live in heavy snow country, buy the Ariens, Toro, or Simplicity.

Also said buy their top of the line machine.

What other advice do you need!

                             Fred

"ChrisS pipes in and says "The Crafstman unit you are looking at is made by MTD.  We have beat this horse to death over on the old forum so I will summarize, it is not the machine for a person who lives in a snow belt. "  EVEN FRED, THE BIGGEST CRAFTSMAN BACKER ON THIS FORUM, DID NOT THINK THAT A CRAFTSMAN WAS FOR YOU."


I included you in my "Tirade"  Fred!!
Marshall


As Long As There Are Tests, There Will Be Prayer In Public Schools. ;- )

Joined: Sep 16, 2002
Points: 7730

Re: How Much Power Do I need
Reply #46   Jan 13, 2005 4:56 pm
Snowdude,

As I said, you came here asking for opinions, you got em. If you're requiring MTD Craftsman complaints you will not find many of them here because, there are very few MTD Craftsman owners here. Geeze, the assumptions you made are partly why I accused you of having an agenda and the other reason is becuase you became extremely defensive of the Craftsman and started dissing the Ariens and in turn, dissing everyone that's tried to help you. That looks like someone with an agenda to me and I'm still not convinced you don't have one. And, having an agenda doesn't necessarily mean it's bad thing but, taking those you're asking for help and throwing their opinions around with no care, isn't the best way to make friends and influence enemies.

Be that as it may, you have the members responses and information. Take them and use them or throw them away, your choice.

Good luck

ps thanks dave

This message was modified Jan 13, 2005 by Marshall
ChrisS


Appreciate what you have already been blessed with.


Joined: Sep 16, 2002
Points: 2793

Re: How Much Power Do I need
Reply #47   Jan 13, 2005 5:19 pm
Go to the old WTB forum.

Click on the search option.

In the "Search For" Type "MTD"

Leave user name blank.

Go to "Max days from last Post" and in the "days" area change 7 to 365.

Go to "Display How many results" type 300.

This reading will give you the "horse" for this year that I was referring to, it is up to you to do the work, not me.  I've already done it.

You can also type in to the "Search For"  "Junk" and get some useful info also.

"ChrisS sophmorically replies  " OK Snow, Then get the Craftsman.""

That was not "sophmoric" that was me assuming that you made up your mind and telling you to get the machine you like.

You have not  liked what you have read here and I am beginning to wonder why you came here....

My last bit of advice is that I recommend that you spend some time tonight reading the posts over there on the old forum before you buy.

My advice has remained the same for years, research the machines, on line and in person, pick what you feel is best for you, buy it take care of it and be happy, if you do that regardless of what you buy I am happy for you too....

Good luck and Best to you Snow....

C

This message was modified Jan 13, 2005 by ChrisS


Honda 928TA, Ariens 924 STE, Toro single stage S-620, 95 Jeep Wrangler with a 6 foot Fisher Plow, many shovels, one 14 year old boy.  Craftsman 01 1000 LTX pimp Gold LT 20hp Briggs OHV V-twin.  Tough as it is ugly.
jubol


Location: Dover, De
Joined: Oct 3, 2003
Points: 1558

Re: How Much Power Do I need
Reply #48   Jan 13, 2005 5:22 pm
EMMO,

        Thank you for including me, I feel so left out!

  I have an MTD blower, which for me for  where I live is like hitting a tack with a sledge hammer.

   I use it about 1 to 2 hours a year. So it should last me 20 to 30 years with good maintenance! Murrays would be overkill here also!

                           Fred

Husqvarna STE927(11.5HP) snowblower,  MTD Pro Series 18/42 Lawnmower, MTD 6.5 HP  Self Prop Lawn Mower,  Weedeater 1500 Blower, Web Gensis  2000 
Emmo


Joined: May 22, 2003
Points: 1065

Re: How Much Power Do I need
Reply #49   Jan 13, 2005 5:23 pm
I think I'm starting to have deja vu all over again.....

Didn't we do this whole dance at the old place not too long ago??
ChrisS


Appreciate what you have already been blessed with.


Joined: Sep 16, 2002
Points: 2793

Re: How Much Power Do I need
Reply #50   Jan 13, 2005 5:29 pm
Emmo wrote:
I think I'm starting to have deja vu all over again.....

Didn't we do this whole dance at the old place not too long ago??


Yes......We did.......

C

Honda 928TA, Ariens 924 STE, Toro single stage S-620, 95 Jeep Wrangler with a 6 foot Fisher Plow, many shovels, one 14 year old boy.  Craftsman 01 1000 LTX pimp Gold LT 20hp Briggs OHV V-twin.  Tough as it is ugly.
Dave___in___CT


Deliberate often...
...decide once...


Location: West-Central Connecticut
Joined: Sep 17, 2002
Points: 3159

Re: How Much Power Do I need
Reply #51   Jan 13, 2005 5:58 pm
Original poster...

I understand you asking WHY? WHY? WHY?....  wanting details to back up information/opinions  given...
I'm very detailed orientated... and like knowing the finite facts...
I can get them... if I put in the effort to uncover as many as I choose... just as you are starting...

Folks here are not trying to sell you a particular brand/makemodel of  snowblower...
...no hidden agenda...

People who responded... put in quite a bit of the time and effort on this one post...
All for free !
...although our commission on Ariens is more than Craftsman brand  $$$     LOL...


If you want details... details... details... backing up the opinions given here...
I dunno' how you will proceed to do this... some suggestions have been given...
It may be time to go and check out 1st hand...

Most don't provide all the details of  WHY? even though you wanna' know...
I'm 1st in line...

It's just too time consuming to answer the WHY? in detail hundreds of times from different posters...


At some point we were asked to choose between 2 machines... We all know which one won the vote-of-long-term-value... and best-potential-fit for you...
...even if we don't understand all the details behind it...


Choosing a shovel will be easier...

Dave...
This message was modified Jan 13, 2005 by Dave___in___CT


Whether you think you can or you can't... you're right.
Henry Ford

   BCS Tractor & snowblower

Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: How Much Power Do I need
Reply #52   Jan 13, 2005 6:31 pm
Hi SnowRemover,

I've been following this thread the last day and feel the Craftsman model will be a fine snowblower for you and very powerful.  As for reliability, I don't see that it'll be any trouble for you.  I own a lot of the Sears Craftman line of power equipment, the largest being a 17hp tractor.  Honestly, it's been great and I enjoy doing periodic service to it.  I've had it for 7 years and it just keeps going. 

ANY outdoor power equipment, and I don't care what the brand, will fail if not properly maintained.  The owners manual tells you exactly what is needed and usually very easy to do.  What caught my attention in your case is the fact you intend to purchase the service agreement with Sears.  This is a great thing to have, since they are usually very fast when it comes to service calls, and one way or another, get your equipment running well.  I live in New York, and that has always been my experience with Sears service plans.  5 years is a long time and the agreement will give you great piece of mind.

Just take the time, whatever snowblower brand you purchase, to read the owners manual thoroughly, and familiarize yourself with the machine and controls.  If you haven't used a snowblower before, snowblow initially in 1st gear, which will keep the machine moving slowly, until you become accustomed to it's use and your confidence builds.  I also recommend using PRI-G fuel stabilizer in each and every tank full of fuel, in fact, I use it in every piece of outdoor power equipment I own, all year round.  Welcome to the forum and good luck.



Richie
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