Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Wilma whipped us pretty good in Ft Lauderdale, and now I'm trying to buy a good quite generator in the 6-8 kw running range.    The problem is that Home Depot and Lowes ship in units but you can't research them.

Am looking at a Pramac 6000S which has a 13 hp Honda engine, and is rated at 5700  running, 6000 surge watts.
Also looking at Briggs Power Boss 6200 with a 13 hp Vanguard rated at 6200 and 9000 watts model 30201....and a  Briggs EXL 8000 with a 15 horsepower Generac Extended Life Commercial engine rated at 8000 running and 13500 surge (model 30244) with metal fuel tank.

The problem is that you can't find any info on these models on line!!!!!  And when you call the mfg, they can't either.

CAN ANYBOBY OFFER ANY SUGGESTIONS.

i did a fair bit of lookin at gen sets recently. i have been told by lots of folks to avoid generac - something about chinese components.

i bought a mitsubishi 6.7 kw from southwest trading, i have had this unit for about 2 yrs and put about 25 hrs on it so far. paid about $1600 with tri fuel conversion and electric start. i am happy with the performance as it will power my entire house except for the air conditioning. i am going to be selling this unit as soon as my electrician hooks up my new winco 8 kw full standby unit.

as you are in ft lauderdale, do you plan on running central a/c with your gen set? if so you will need to look at something in the 12kw + range.

MikeP wrote:

1. If the manufacturer cant help on the phone, what kind of Quality and service can you expect down the road?

2. I own a Genuine HONDA, and it is better quality, and QUITER than any other unit only powered bu a Honda engine. PArts and service are everywhere. A good USED HONDA will beat any model you mention.  But if you must, the Briggs with the VANGUARD engine is a awsome engine.

3. Remember, a 5K generator will burn almost 1 gallon per hour under a decent load, and those huge 13+ hoarsepower monsters burn even more. Can you easily and safly stockpile enough gas?  A smaller unit will be more economical, and can still keep you comfortable if you power ration, insted of trying to run the whole house.

Things to consider

1. If you want to feed the house then you must have a cut over switch that disconnects the regular mains connection before connecting the generator. It seems the electrical company gets testy with you if you electrocute their employees.

2, How long do you want to be able to keep going. This may determine how much fuel you store and what type of inventory plan you need to keep the stuff "fresh".

3. You can get propane/natural gas powered gen sets for backup power. If you have a reliable source of natural gas this might be better than gas or diesel.

4. You still need UPS's on things like computers, assuming you want to have time to shut them down when the power goes out. A UPS will also help clean up any dirty power the gen set might create.

5. The bigger house backup systems include an automatic test cycle. Either way its a good idea to test the thing regularly to make sure there is no problem.

Point 5 reminds me of a story.

It seems there was this company that had a generator with a big tank of fuel that could last for 5 hours and could be refuelled "on the fly". Every year for five years they tested the unit for about an hour. One day the power went out and the generator came up automatically and worked without a hitch .... for about 20 minutes.

I agree with MountianMan, your best bet is a Genuine Honda Generator. However, there is one other important point to be made: You should purchase the unit from a bonafide Honda Power Equipment Dealer. Sure, you might pay a few dollars more, but at least you will have a relationship with the dealer when you need service or have a problem. If you were to purchase the machine via the internet, mail order or through a "big box" retailer, how would you go about handling a service or warranty issue? Surely you would not expect a dealer to put loyal customers "on the back burner" to repair a unit belonging to somebody who purchased elsewhere in order to save a few dollars!     

Regardless of what brand generator you decide to purchase, make sure you have a local service outlet who is willing to work on your machine. When your power is out & your generator is down it's not a good time to learn shipping the machine off for repairs is the only way to have it repaired!!!  

Mike, I sent you a private message and if you e-mail me I will send you plenty of info on installation and brands.

Mike.... I currently have three smaller generators - a Honda 500watt (really a camping generator) powered by a Honda engine, an older 1750 watt powered by a B/S (I've had it for 30 years, and while it's been mothballed for the last 10 years, still works great!!!) and a 3800watt Remington, again powered by a 9HP battery-start B/S.  At one time, I had planned to outfit my cabin up north with a 4K generator, since we had no hydro, etc.  The other generators were what I would call "strictly emergency" machines.  Nothing fancy, but they did the job.  For my permanent application I reviewed Honda and a group of other names.  I chose a 4K Onan gasoline-powered RV generator with time meter, silencing muffler and remote start.  Not having hydro, I didn't need the auto-cutover equipment or auto-start.  In our area, the two names most respected are Onan and Kohler - both of whom provide machines of varying sizes - but both of whom support what I would call "permanent installations".   Coleman and Honda are all well and good - but if you plan a permanent installation, consider these two.  I particularly liked the Onan since it ran at 2400RPM as opposed to the others which typically run at 3600RPM.  One of my neighbours has a 5K gas Onan 2400RPM....it's still going, when necessary, 25 years later.  Another neighbour has a big Honda - his 3rd in the last 14 years.  The Hondas look good - but if they are used with any degree of regularity, they don't seem to to hold up.   As it turned out, before I got my Onan installed (I even had it to the site - ferried 5km downriver by boat and carried up the 50ft cliff), our area got serviced by hydro under a "underserviced properties" grant - my Onan became surplus, and its new owner has it permanently installed, to his great satisfaction, in the Lake-of-the-Woods area on the Ontario-Manitoba border.  It has been running as the sole source of power to his cabin for 9 years, and it's still going strong.

My advice....(and I used my cabin property 27 years before I got hydro in 1994, with 20 of those years using the 1750watt unit) - go for a continuous-duty rated machine, preferrably slow speed, make certain you have the necessary manuals - and have a source of parts, should they be needed.  But consider the more commercial names for an installation as opposed to the more domestically popular brands .... you may spend a few more dollars, but you will never be sorry (in an emergency) that you purchased REAL QUALITY!!!!

Good luck!!!       *(:>)* 

Honda, Mitsu, and Yamaha are all fine units.

If you want to run the whole house and $$ isn't a problem then a built in stand-by unit would be best. Kohler, Generac, Winco et.al make these.

My dad and I both have Generac EXL portable units . They are noisier than the Japanese made generators but they do just fine in an emergency and cost less.

I beg to dirrer with you wally.

1st, Mike seems interested in a Portable unit for emergency use. Although the way Florida is going, a standby model might be handy.

2. As far as Hondas not lasting long, I know of many in service for ten years with regular maintainance on job sites.  Most Honda's will outlast most other lower cost brands. You also cant compare a 3600 rpm generator to a Constant duty, low speed unit with a 4 pole head made to run year round.

Exactly my point, Mountainman..... light duty and portability probably stop around 4kw.  From there on, portability becomes an issue of perception!!!!  You can mothball a 6kw or 8kw continuous duty machine just as easy as an occasional duty machine at the same power capability.... but the reality is that if you need it for those types of disaster circumstances, we're not talking about running it an hour or two at a time.  We're talking about blasting it for days at a time.  I don't see the intermittent duty lightweights being good for more than a couple of goes like that.  Sorry...but from what I have seen, the domestic market, back-of-the-truck construction Colemans and Hondas just don't cut it!!!  I KNOW that if I were in the same circumstance, that 4kw Onan that I once had, if outfitted with a wheel-kit, would be as portable as I would ever need in those circumstances.   And I'd know that I had a machine that was prepared and built for 24/7.  And as the expression goes...if I'm in for a penny, I'm in for a pound!!!  I'd put my money on the commercial constant duty every time.

*(:>)*  

What is a UPS that you use to clean up the power from generators so you can use computers? I have heard of a power line conditioner  but not a UPS. How do they work and how much do they cost?

Your question relating to computers and UPS...... you might try     http://www.jetcafe.org/~npc/doc/ups-faq.html    as a source of information.  Also Google "Uninterruptible Power Supplies" for other info... and add "cost" to the search and you will see that reputable single-machine UPS's range from $100-500 while network UPS coverage may be in the $1500 neighbourhood.  Beware of REALLY low cost UPS offerings....they may be SPS (Standby Power Supplies) masquerading as UPS's.   A UPS also acts as a conditioner, since the computer is ,in reality, running from an charged source in isolation from the line or charging source.  Remember, a computer doesn't run on 110AC - its POWER SUPPLY runs on 110AC...which, in turn, generates the +/-5DC or +/-12DC needed for the computer to run.  A good alternate source of power for a notebook is, of course, your CAR ADAPTER to its 12V system.....one that really works well in a pinch.

*(:>)*

I use a Yamaha YG2800I 2800 Watt Industrial Generator which comes with an invertor and puts out a pure sine wave... it is quiet and easy on gas...  we don't have many power outages here, but it will run the fridge and freezer in the summer and the furnace in the wiinter.  Also powers just about any 120v tool including a table saw, scroll saw, any drills, etc.  My garage has only one 20 amp circuit and the generator gives us another.

I also use it to power lights on remote for my video production company.  Since it puts out a pure sine wave, I can use it with delicate lighting instruments like Kino Flo Divas, which have sensitive ballasts, and Mole Richardson fresnels.  I also run a PC communications setup on remote with it... and lithium Ion chrargers.  I love it. 

Some things to think about when buying a generator. I talked to a old farmer recently, who had a large generator on back of his truck.  Last year, parts of PA were without power for 3 weeks because of a huge  ice storm.

He did mention using very high quality generators for applications where power spikes could cause damage to
electronic equipment. He also said large generators suck down an incredible amounts of gasoline and to make sure local gas stations have power to gas is available.  Also he said to make sure where the natural gas pump is located as it is also susceptible to power outages.

Propane is good for very short outages IMHO.

My PA house is all electric with access to natural gas, so I have a lot to consider.

jhart.... I checked out your YG2800I on the Yamaha site...certainly an impressive package at that power...great power/weight ratio...and the inverter aspect for clean power is obviously a plus (something none of my powerplants had).  While I was there, I found the EF3000iSEB ...new this year, I gather.... and I rather like that one....particularly since it has the electric start, low noise levels, and DC as well as AC.  The power boost could have advantages as well.  Since a more modern stand-by AC source was on my agenda for this spring, I'll be certain to check these out. 

*(:>)*

i have used my computer with my mitsu generator supplying my electricity and it did not seem to affect my computer in any way. so i guess this makes it  "clean power" i know my new winco is clean power.

the mitsu is not so load that it bothers me in the house nor have any neighbors complained about the noise. i have run this mitsu on gasoline as well as natural gas. it will burn propane but i have not used same.

i am looking to sell the mitsu as soon as  i get the winco all hooked up and would be willing to ship the generator,

Wally or jhart,

Will you provide us with a few paragraphs of "inverter technology" means? Is this the future of portable generators.

Seems the Yamaha YG2800I 2800 Watt Industrial Generator is something many homeownes will find useful at home and on the road.

This is a very helpful thread on the understanding the issues of buying a portable generator.

Gary

An inverter does the opposite job to a rectifier. Instead of turning AC ( Alternating Current) into DC ( Direct Current). It turns DC into AC. The quality of the output is very dependant on the inverter. Some put out a square wave which causes serious transients, others put out a clean Sinusoidal wave that  is identical to the AC that comes from the mains. A good example is the UPS ( Uniterruptible Power Supply) that you can get to power your computer or other sensitive electronics when there is a power outtage. Some setups even have a UPS that will last long enough to get the generator going. The generator then charges the UPS that keeps powering the computer.

Every time you do a conversion you loose something so the system isn't as efficient as a straight AC generator.  On the other hand the system will probably contain a battery and if the inverter circuitry is good you will get clean power even when there are variations in the generator output.

Yamaha states the power out of their invertor series generators is equal or better than what your local power company supplies.

• Inverter System with Pulse Width Modulation - Industry-leading system that produces higher-quality and cleaner electricity. Results in pure sine wave as clean or cleaner than commercial power and can operate products with built in microcomputers.
• “Economy Control” electrical governor - Engine speed matches electrical needs which improves fuel economy and reduces noise.
• Sixteen-pole Alternator, Twenty-four Coil Stator - Eliminates conventional two pole rotating field & massive stator for reduced weight, compact design and an exceptional power output to weight ratio.
• Cast iron cylinder lining - Provides optimal heat dissapation, consistent performance during continuous use and long engine life.
• Oil Watch Warning System - Automatically shuts off before oil level is low and cannot be re-started until oil is added. Prevents engine damage and costly repairs while enhancing long-term durability.
• Specially designed muffler - Offers a compact design, reduced weight and noise.
• USFS-approved Spark Arrestor - Offers quiet operation and keeps sparks from exiting exhaust system, reducing chance of fires caused by an errant spark.
• AC Non-fuse Thermal Breaker - Protects AC circuit in case of an overload for added durability and peace of mind.
• DC output - Provides both AC and DC output and enables battery charging.
• Tool Kit - Makes service easy.

They're very well designed imho.

Nibbler and jhart.

Thanks for the informative description of inverted power. We are seriously considering buying Yamaha YG2800I 2800 Watt Industrial Generator.
Amazon Tools says they have the best price, or will beat any other price by 10%, is $1,300 plus $49 for shipping. Amazon Tools has been a reliable, fair, source for me.

Seems to me with a weight of 66 pounds without gas, the generator would be handly to haul in the back of my truck as well as to have it as a backup at home.
We have not had any significant power outages in Cleveland during the past two years, except that big one that put the east coast and midwest in the dark for a few days.

Gary

Costco has a $#%*mins Onan Homesite 6500 Portable Generator available at $679 which includes shipping and wheels but no battery. (5000 watts, 5500 peak) I also found this model available elsewhere for slightly fewer dollars, however shipping is not included.

While cruising the web, I found a Gentron (6500 watt peak, 6000 continous) generator "Pro Series". The engine is a Lifon (Chinese). The ad stated it had a JD engine, however all models in 2007 will be shipped with a Lifon. This machine is available (or was) for $699, an attractive price which includes shipping. The ad did state: "This is a pre-order special for shipment arriving Dec. 30, 2006", so it may not be available at that price. It did at least give me a benchmark in pricing. Does anyone here have any knowledge of this company and its generators?
http://www.generatordepot.us/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=30

Does anyone here provide a weather shelter for protection, or some sort of a doghouse when operating their machines?

I also found that some machines don't have an "automatic voltage regulator". The $#%*mins-Onan and Gentron have them although Onan didn't list it in their specs. I called Onan about this, and the woman didn't know the answer. She asked someone offline, and then stated it had one. Makes me nervous when I get this kind of response.

I bought the $#%*mins Onan and expect it to arrive in about four weeks. 

Here's a small garden shed modified to be used as a generator shelter.  Check this out.  Looks like a good idea.

 http://www.nooutage.com/powershelterkitii.htm

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RE: Chinese Portable Generators

"Does anyone here provide a weather shelter for protection, or some sort of a doghouse when operating their machines?"

If I'm home, I run the generator from my garage, which is not physically connected to my house.  I also keep a small fan running to exhaust fumes.  This brings up a good point to make. 

Electrical extension cords, or stingers as they're called in production work, quickly build up resistance to the current flow, so it is important to use a large gauge  from the generator to the house, or worksite.  I use a 50ft. 10 gauge, and split into three 12 gauge runs to the appliances.

If I'm on remote, I transport the generator in the lined bed of an old '93 stick toyota pickup truck, grounded to the chassi.  After it is up and running I've built some sound baffles to stand up in the bed, and a baffled cover that I slide over the top.  It is protected and quiet. 

good Luck!