Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Let's try this again.
There is a new buzzword that is currently making the rounds on internet forums, OPE dealerships, (and even some OPE manufacturers have let it slip from thier lips)...."Chinese Clones".
What are these "clones"?..... They are "reversed engineered" copys of equipment that have been proven products on the world market and sell for a fraction of what the originals sell for.

Has anyone had any experience with these products?

I ask because I got service bulletin from a well known engine manufacturer that basically said: "If we find that you are selling any of these "clones" in your stores....or that you take them in for service....or that you have anything too do with them whatsoever....then you shall no longer be a dealer for us."

I mean: "EGADS!" That puts me between a rock and a hard place.
Should I take these engines and equipment in for service and risk the ire of our largest supplier?
Or go with consumer demand for lower prices?
TIA....'lint.

PaulR wrote:
Its becoming increasingly difficult, if not impossible to find products manufactured totally in the U.S. many manufacturers purchase, or have assembled, individual parts for they're products, outside the U.S. for economic reasons, or on another level have moved tech support to low wage countries, thus affecting both the U.S. job market  and consumer purchasing power as well.  it ends up being a real catch 22 in that companies do this to save money, with what appears to be little or no concern for the job market here and the resulting consumer purchasing ability. (now before anyone goes off on this statement,) i realize its a competitive market, and brand A has to keep prices competitive with brand B to stay in business,  but the end result is we all suffer from downgrading of quality in many cases as well as the other economic effects this causes. the fact remains though due to cost competitifeness, the end result is loss of at home job loyalty to the american workforce/consumer. couple that with the increasing need for companies to cut back on wages, benifit packages etc. many consumers, like it or not look at lower cost alternatives to purchases as a means of making incomes cover all the necessary things.
I also believe in buying products made at home (so to speak) as well as keeping my purchases local.spending my tax dollars elsewhere does no good for the local community, but there are times when a product or service isnt available or the cost difference is so great shopping "out of town" is sometimes necessary.
Bottom line is its a two sided coin, not only do we need to think about how purchases from manufacturers outside the U.S. affect "fellow americans lives" U.S. manufacturers need to consider how moving operations or purchasing parts for they're products affects "fellow americans lives" also.  the obvious result is everyone is trying to save money where possible and everyone suffers because of it

Garandman

If you think that patents will protect your product from being cloned in China, you are dreaming.  Where do you think all those $50 Rolex Waches come from?  Don't you think that Rolex has all of their parts patented as well?  Just ask GM (Chery vs Chevy) and Toyota about how well patents in their country have protected their products from being cloned.

PaulR wrote:
Tell me the dollar damages? Versus GM's share of the Chinese market, for example?

How many Rolex clones do you own? Honda clones?

Tell me the dollar damages? Versus GM's share of the Chinese market, for example?
Bear with me, Gman.
Exactly how much is GM pulling out of the Chinese market? (You dont really have too give me figures.)
If China were such an attractive market for GM and the others, why isnt the smart money being dumped into GM stock? Are astute investors just waiting for the stocks too go lower?
I do live in Detroit, and I see a lot of places used for parking lots for stuff that isnt selling. (Not just GM lots.) Where are the Chinese hiding the cars that they are buying from us?
Or is this some kind of "trust me thing".......Everything will be great once we have the new world order in place.
I just seem too be hearing a lot of rhetoric about how the North American worker just isnt productive enough.....How he has too learn too compete harder. I mean does the line have too run twice as fast when the the lots are full.....or should he just accept the fact that he should take half the pay and benefits too work a 40 hr. week?
Color me stupid....but sometimes I just dont "get it".

I have inquired about parts & engine/machine support from XG & Lifan for these units. They say that Honda parts fit the engines. Why can't they provide parts themselves? Many units will be disassembled for parts if needed - you call that part support? The PC thing aside - these things are NOT worth buying...

Marty

Garandman wrote:

G-Man,

According to the article in this link, I guess we're only talking a few billion dollars.  Yes, that's a B for billions - $1,000,000,000.00....

There's a certain amount of irony (or is it coincidence) in the link when I first pulled it up...the page was sponsored by Walmart, a company I consider to be the biggest Communist sellout/sympathizer in this country...

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1323136&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Screw the chinese.

Intellectual property protection is one reason why  President Bush is in China right now.

Once the Chinese go beyond copying existing designs or manufacturing new designs provided them, they will have a compelling desire to enforce intellectual property rights.

When an American business sells a $10 product made in China, $6 or more goes to Americans and $4 or less goes to the manufacturer - sometimes as little as $1. Better to face the competition now and improve to beat it  than become France.

There was an article on NPR about auto parts supplies. They visited a plant in China and one in the US. Basically the American worker is as productive as 6-10 of the Chinese workers. The Chinese plant owner expressed admiration for the American manufacturers, and was incredulous that they could ever compete.

American vs. Chinese Manufacturing: Which Is Stronger?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4991996

Good question on what to do with them.

But with the emminent death of Tecumseh, I'm sure there will be a flood of clones.

I do have experience with them. So far just with a couple from the same brand. They do seem to fare fairly well, in my experience.

Hi Guys-

Garandman wrote:The Chinese plant owner expressed admiration for the American manufacturers, and was incredulous that they could ever compete.

FALSE MODESTY!!!!!!

1)I have a friend with a small machine shop that does precision work .His busness card says CNC Machining and Assembly's.His work is absolutely meticulous. The Chinese have just about put him out of business.

He gets plenty of prototype work which is a pain in the a$$ . Once the design is set the production goes to China. According to him the Chinese work is as good as the customer is willing to pay for. The money of course is in the production work.

2)I am an avid saltwater surf fisherman. We use a high end reel that costs depending on size between $500 and $700 .The New England based manufacturer was bought out by an Oklahoma  company and moved to Tulsa ostensibly because of the large Aero Space machining facilities available.. Within a year the company had built their own machine shop in China with "same time" closed circuit TV supervision of the factory floor.The new reels are indistinguishable from their American made predicessors. 

Whether it's sneakers or machine parts or ope engines we can't compete with labor that is willing to work for low wages.Our policy of no or low tarriffs is killing us.

Marc