Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I've just spent a ton of time reading all the old posts on this forum from Jan 2005 till present.
Lots of cool info. And a few hot threads... I don't tend to repeat such an event in this thread.

I see a lot of Ariens owners on this site. But I've not seen those owners knocking Toro either.
So I figured it would be a good place to share my story and get some opinions to help finalize my selection.

I'll tell my story, honest and true, but it will sound a bit like trashing Craftsman, or maybe not... maybe it wasn't the right tool for the job?.

I've been shopping now for about a month for a new snowblower  and have come to some conclusions and have read a lot of  "Facts" or better put "statements".
I'd like to run them by the crew here as well.

First, my story and what I'm dealing with........
15 years ago, after getting into a very bad car accident due to the permant damage, I can no longer shovel the snow off my driveway.
So in a lurch that snow season I bought what I could afford. How could I go wrong with Craftsman? It was such a deal.

My driveway....
It's 150ft long, from the garage to the street, with the entire east side is up against a 6 ft fence on the property line.
On the west side, no easy access to get ride of the snow.
It's single width for most of it's length ( 10-11ft wide), except for the last 25feet, it's a bit over double width - 25ft wide.
The 1st 30 feet ( starting at my garage), my trailer blocks me from throwing snow to the rear lawn... there's about 10 feet of open space between the trailer and house. So starting at the garage, traveling north,  I blow the snow to that point on the drive way, across from the opening between the house and trailer.  I make a mound on the drive way to Que up the snow. Then as needed I work on the mound and  throw it to the rear lawn, easterly.
Then the next 44 feet of  the driveway is between the house on the west side and and the fence on the east side. So I start at the mid point of the house and go southernly, throwing  the snow to the Queing point on the drive way across from that opening to the rear lawn in front of the trailer, then once again as needed I work the mound and  blow that mound to the rear lawn. I may do it several times so the mound doesnt become too much for the blower.
Now I go back to the mid section of the house, and start blowing to the street end ( heading north) of the driveway making mounds and moving it to points on the driveway and eventually to the front lawn.  I can't use a plow, if I did, I would blow out my basement windows and fence.
And I'm at a dead end.. so I get the mother of EODs to deal with.... the whole front of my house is EOD, since I have to clear room for the mail box and for the mai truck to turn around and the double car width of the drive way.
I can amass 5 ft piles of snow with a 1 - 1.5 ft snow storm on my front lawn and on the rear lawn.
The drifts between my house and the fence have topped the 6 ft  fence  on a 45 deg angle once or twice.
The thing is the Craftsman doesn't throw very far, so on the rear lawn, it looks more like a sand dune and once the pile gets too big, I can throw over it.
And since it didn't throw far enough to start with, if I get too many snow storms I can have a problem if it doesn't melt inbetween.
And by the time the time I've made this dune, the snow has been moved so many times, it very compact and heavy and it's too much for the blower.
Been very lucky so far. And if I don't clean the drive way, with the melting and freezing we get, I wind up with ice and drainage problems.
So I have to get the snow off of the driveway.
I live on Long Island. One 2005 snow storm took me 4 hours to clean up, the other took me about 3 hours.
A few inches of snow.. takes about an hour and a half or a so. Never less than an hour's time.

So what I've been beating to death is a  25" 6HP 2stage Craftsman snowblower, which is about 15 years old now.
I'm handy and do most of my own auto work and home renovations,I can weld a bit and such.
All came in handy while owning the Craftsman.
Right from the get go, during the  the 1st year, I blew belts. I'm sure to blow one or more belts for the drive or the auger during a season.
After using up all the ones I orderd from Sears one seasons, I decide to replace them with automotive belts, which must of tripled my uptime between blowing up belts.

After the 10th year of owning this machine ( bought it new), I called sears parts, once again, to order some more spare parts  for stock so I can fix it when it breaks during the season and to my surprise they couldn't find my machine listed. After some discussion, the punchline was,  they said.....  "when a machine is 10 years or older, it's not in the system any longer since we do not expect it to still be in service" ..."and we may not stock the parts"  I quote.

So with the p/n's in hand I was still able to get friction disk and cable and shoes and some other hardware... all came not in sear bags as in past , but it was either YTD or MTD.. I'd have to go out to the workshop and look. All were correct and looked just like the original parts.

I've taken that machine apart so many times that the threaded holes in the sheetmetal were gone and I had to put PEM nuts in for the case so I could still screw it back together and take it apart as needed.
The front auger gear box is now ratteling around with tons of end play on each of the inputs of the three shafts. I'm afraid of that just come apart in pieces one year.
It's time to shoot it and put it out of it's missery.

The engine still runs strong, it's a Tecumseh SnowKing 6hp... still starts well. Just started using oil this year.
At the 10th year, had to replace the carb. Over the years I've had to unstick this, replace that, de-rust this to get something moving again in the "transmission" or drive disk housing. I guess pretty normal stuff considering?

So with all my problems I figured I was just over working this light duty machine ( or it's a POS?). So I started looking at the Ariens. A friend of mine from NH says that up there the machine of choice, and he owns, is a Toro.
I started reading that the Ariens don't really have the quaility they used to and parts are hard to come by and there are fewer and fewer authorized dealers each year.
As I looked around, everyone here sells Toro. I can't find a local shop selling Ariens. A few Polound (spelling) dealers.. never ran across that brand online during my research.

Last year was the first time I saw the HD ( the big orange box) selling Ariens. After visiting Ariens' website, I found that HD wasn't selling the better grade of Ariens either.
I have a bunch of good local dealers selling Toro.
After looking at both machines, the Toro's at the dealers and the Ariens at the HD, it seemed that the Toro had heavier steal and impressive braces from the outer ends of the front housing to the frame.

I do see both as premium brands. But is the Ariens that the HD is selling apple and oranges to the Toro's at the dealers?
Do I need to be looking at a better grade Ariens at a dealer?
Or am I just not seeing a good comparasion since they aren't truly side by side?
Again I read statements else where saying that the lesser grade of Ariens doesn't use as thick of metal, no real bearings-just bushing and such.

I've come to think I should buy a 10hp 28" snowblower to get it as far as possible and to deal with my EOD and Queing piles.
Smaller opening and more power = more power to push out the snow that's in the blades as far as possible. Bigger opening = more snow with same power =  less available pressure to push present snow out the chute.
I'd buy a 26" 10hp if I could. As it is with my present blower, I take 1/2 width cuts to keep the loading down with heavy snow.
I wanted the 11hp from Toro, but the auto adjusting scraping blade is getting bad reviews around here.... so two dealers say and they have the 11hp model to sell me, it's not like they don't.
And with the added price... ~$300 from the 10 to the 11hp.. not sure if I need the extra 1hp.. until I read that the 11hp is the OHV and a better series of engines from Tecumseh.  Being on Long Island, we can get 2 inches or  2 feet. Either way it can start melting before your done cleaning, or the snow can start to turn to rain.. in which case you better start cleaning before it refreezes. So it's usually a very heavy snow, rarely light and fluffy.
And with moving pile to pile to pile, it tends to compact and become wetter each time , even if it's not warm enough to melt.
So been thinking big and tough and strong, real bearings - no bronze sleeves,  so I'm not loosing nuts and bolts to stripping threads, and blowing belts and seizing things up. The funny part, I never lost a sheer bolt on the auger. My father as the same model, but track drive and a few years newer, and he always blows his sheer bolts.

So I've been drawn to the Toro, more dealers around and more service centers. 12months free financing.
I've been thinking atleast 10hp.. but still thinking about the 11hp (also better engine)... but the auto scraper and money keep bringing me back to the 10hp model.
Since I have a lot of spinning around, turning todo of the machine and of the chute ( kinda like a MA1A, I have to aim and shoot on the go to make the piles in the right place) , the Toro keeps my attention with it's stick chute control, over the fine and old reputation of the Ariens.
Every time the Craftsman broke, while I was turning wrenches and warming up next to the turbo heater, I kept telling myself I'm buying a Ariens.
So now it's time to spend a good chunk of money, and I've run into to the Toro during my research.
And honestly, if I couldn't find anymore info I would either be buying the 10hp or the 11hp Toro.
But as an engineer, the more data the better.


So,
Can I go wrong with the Toro?
Any long term issue with the trigger stearing on the Toro?
10hp vs 11hp?
Is the new  "automatic leveling scraper" a liability? (maybe it has todo with how much icing and heavy snow we get here?)
I see a lot of plastic on the Toro, my only real negative, problems?
(my plastic chute on my Craftsman never broke and for half it's life, my drive way was 3/4" gravel not blacktop like it is now, but that was the only real plastic "hardworking" piece on it.)

Sorry about my spelling, and writing. English was never my best subject, and I never can proof read what I write, I always read what I thought I wrote.

Not too much posion on those arrows please, " just the facts mam, just the facts".....

Thanks abunch and sorry about the long winded post, I guess I babbled long enough at the keyboard...

Bob
Long Island, NY

PS:
This is what we like to do during the summer...
www.tdr4x4.com/files/camping7.jpg
older, but more camping/fishing pix...  www.tdr4x4.com/dt/

And after the 1st snow storm last year, daughter snapped some pix after I finished cleaning and went to work...
http://www.tdr4x4.com/firstsnow2005/

.

I have the Ariens 1128 pro and love it. My neighbor has an 8hp Toro and it has alot of plastic on it but he likes it. I hear that the Honda's throw very far. But I am an Ariens man.

snowblowers...thats my speciality.

okay now,toro was losing market share and so was ariens.just to expensive for most folks

result ...toro came up with a new styled machine ,no drum auger and lighter all over.still a good machine but nowhere what it used to be.

ariens ...same idea, they had to to cut costs and regain some sales.so they make a cheeper machine.however they redoo some and call them pro units and they are as good or better than they ever were.pricy but you get what you pay for.

in my opinion i would be looking at the simplicity -snapper blower,the simplicity has a better control system and a heavier duty handle.very good value for the dollar.

and there is a new child coming into the herd to. word is mitsubshi is going to sell there tractors and snowblowers here.

rumor also has it that a mitsu will eat a honda no prob. i have a little trouble with that one because i ahve always beleived honda was the best no question but folks in the know say the mitsu is better.

we are a mitsu dealer so we will know in time.

later chris

Ramit (Bob)- First of all welcome to the forumn ! There are a bunch of good people here with various opinions. Your going to find alot of pros and cons both ways. I think the real answer is Service and support should you need it. If there are more Ariens dealers near you go with Ariens, if more Toro go with Toro .  I agree with the previous post that Toro has the market for single stage machines but for dual stage, Ariens pro models (imho) are the way to go. Yes, last year we did read (on this forumn) more problems with Ariens. I think that's because more people  here bought an Ariens. I live in Huntington and I have owned an Ariens ST1236 ( 12hp 36" cut) snowblower for 10yrs. I bought it because I liked the build quality better than Toro. I do like the build quality of Simplicity but there dealer network is far and few between around here. I didn't want to be locked in to 1 dealer. Long Island weather is crazy, when I first bought my machine it didn't snow for the first 3 yrs, but these last 3 years I was glad I bought it. For a 100' + driveway I recommend  A machine in the double digits of HP. If you pick Ariens or Toro I don't think you could really go wrong either way. - Kris   

Dear Ramit,
First, Welcome to the forum!!  I commend you for having the wisdom of shopping and researching for snowblowers now, and not waiting until the first storm.  I did the same thing and drove the guys here nuts for a year before I bought.
For years I had a toro 7/24 and it served me well, way longer then ten years, more like 15 or so, (I really do not remember).  It is still working good, I sold it to a friend of mine when I replaced it last year with a new Ariens Pro 13 hp  32" blower.
So far many here have given you good advice.  If you call Ariens they will send you the new catolog.....they sent one to me last year WEEKS before any dealer had one.  I'm very pleased with my Ariens, but I would advise you to find an OPE dealer that you know/like/trust, and buy what he sells if he is good for the service after the sale.  Research, TRY BEFORE YOU BUY, if you can, at least you can see how it feels gripwise, handlebar wise, etc.

Again, Welcome....keep us posted on your quest for your new snowblower!

Frank D.

Thanks guys, seems I have some more work todo. I can't wait to see more input.

But all the the replies I've read so far still makes me comfortable with the Toro, and  still interested enough to see the Ariens Pro series and try and find a Simplicity dealer.
I remember reading a lot of pluses about the Pro series that made me so thankfull I didnt make an impluse buy last year at the HD... I was afraid the old Craftsman wasn't going to last the season. More spit, gum and bailing wire, and we made it.

About mid to the end of August is when I wanted to buy.
End of August is when the Toro offer ends.

I'll get to run it, break it in and go over it to make sure it's fit for the season.

Research I've been coming across on the internet is showing that this winter will be nastier than last... 2005 was just a warm up for your snowblowers.
For this eastern shore area, NJ/LI/CT and slightly futher north and south, snow staring in mid Dec, storms late Dec, more storms through Jan and Feb possible, ending in mid March with a real nasty snow storm, so says some weather smarty working on their Doctoriet and  very well respected on the board I read the info on.
"It is appearing as though there is a good chance of a superstorm in March 2006 that is similar to one that happened in 1962, 44 years ago. This means probably a very heavy snow for the East Coast, the worst of next winter and rough times for the coast. "


So I'll try and call Ariens to get a flyer, thanks for the tip.
I went to Simplicity's site, some info, decent chart, not enough pictures to see what I want to see.
I'll call them too.

Interesting, in reading all the great replies it was mentioned  "Simplicity - Snapper"  >..???
Are they the same, one bought the other or something?

My local ma and pa shop that is good and trusted ( also I think the only real hardware store left on LI, HD hasn't been able to put these guys out of business. I like spending a fair dollar there), is who I bought my 16 year old Snapper hivac from.
This is it's last season too, running well enough, but the deck is rusting apart and the hivac is just not hivac'ing anymore. I mulch everthing with it. Got the Nija blade.
The same thing happened with this B&S motor on my Snapper, really 6.5 Hp, labeled 5hp for marketing and pricing. So it runs the Nija blade great. This local dealer discovered it and let me know during one visit.

But anyway, a few years ago( 5, I guess)  when I bough the carb from him for the Craftsman blower, he said I should buy a Snapper Snowblower next, after discussing my problems with the Craftsman.  When I went down there early this summer, no more Snapper stuff, just Toro. And he recommended the Toro mower for mulching over the Snapper and didn't have any snapper snowblower info ... just Toro. Come to think of it, as we were talking about the Toro blowers,  he did say he can get other machines.. so I need to follow up with him about that. He had an 11hp coming in to sell me, but said due to the adjustable scraper being not so good, I should buy one of the 10hp coming in. But it was my choice, just his honest opinion.

If I can't find a good dealer other than the good/trusted local one, it seems I wont be wasting money with Toro, but I can buy less plastic if I want with another brand.
But I agree about the service and parts issue, and as a plus I still feel comfortable with the Toro.

The info about Ariens makes a ton of sense. They need to do what they need to do to save falling sales.. but to much "cheapening" hurt  their reputation.  And probably once it was known that Ariens had went to bed with the big orange box, the local dealers probably backed out. It just to tough to go head to head the the big HD.
HD has done a world of hurt on LI to the small dealers and smaller hardware store chains and ma&pa shops. HD sell Toro mowers around here, but only the steel decks.
So it's off to touch and feel a Pro model at a dealer.

No one has heard about the magical self adjusting scraper on the 11hp Toro?  Bad/good?
I read some threads on other boards where guys were so impressed with it, they were buying the ~$35 in parts to put it on there 10hp macnines.
But my local dealer feels different. No local postive feedback.


Well that's what so great about this country, choices... so many choices.
Reminds me of a story.... (oh no, here he goes again, babbling at the keyboard !)
I have a friend I met through work  about 20 year ago now. He is an engineer from Russia, now a US citizen. Ever see Moscow over the Hudson or what ever it was called?
Robin W. went nutz in the supermarket in the toilet paper isle?  My friend said that was just what it was like when he first went shopping here. He didn' t know what todo or if it was some trap, all that toilet paper, so many brands to choose from, different packages, was he actually allowe to buy it? touch it?. He froze from being overloaded with the choices infront of him and an isle filled with it and with no mob crawling over each other for it. It was a rarity that he could even buy TP... that's what they used the newpaper for after you were done reading it.

Anyway with that gem...
I must stop typing, my wife saw the novel I was writing for the 1st post and asked if I was working on work as I was  typing away madly,  I said no, SnowBlower research !.. she smiled and noded knowingly.

Good night, I look forward to more keyboard mashing and discussions.

And thanks for the warm welcome...

Aur, Aur, Aur... more power !

-Bob

Dear Bob,
At the risk of looking like I'm pushing you to the ariens, (which I'm not....) just know that the Ariens PRO series is NOT cheaply made...it is commercial.
The thing that sets this apart is the traction control.
you gotta try one to know what i mean. 
It is the only one out there that I know of that does this.
The wheels are free spinning so you can turn it like a ZTR, no levers or anything to do this.  Just this feature makes it worth every penny when you are talking about a unit that weighs over 300 pounds.

More later..gotta go.

Frank D.

Hi and welcome to the forum Ramit !

You spend a lotta' time with the snowblower... get the "best" you can afford... it will make that part of your life easier and likely more enjoyable...

I suggest sticking with a professional-grade machine... whatever brand...

"...Ariens don't really have the quaility they used to and parts are hard to come by..."    I  disagree... 2 years ago I bought a 1960's vintage Ariens...  parts are still available for it thru Ariens... I even got the owner's and service manuals from them...

...quality... yep... most manufacturers have lower-grade blowers and construction to get a lower price... but... there are top-end machines still made too...

Get to see each machine 1st hand... you already know more than most of the sales folks you may encounter...

Dave...

r
This is really the crux of the matter. This is not an engineering decision, it's your "Buy Cycle,"  and typical of engineers.  There comes a time when you have to ship a product - or  buy one. Try this experiment. You re going to be allowed to enter one dealership - and you can't leave it without buying a machine.  Doesn't that make you feel uncomfortable? I hire engineers to sell to engineers and this is common. 

The only local dealer is Toro. You can get free financing for a year. Go buy one. 10 or 11 hp won't matter. Spend less, you're on Long Island not Presque Isle.  Occasional storms notwithstanding, LI averages 36" of snow per season.

If performance matters more than anything else buy a Simplicity Commercial 10560E, which has a 24" opeing and 10.5 hp. 

BTW I measured the sheet metal thickness on my old Ariens (1970) my 1995 Ariens, and a new one at a dealer with digital calipers. It was the same.  But the old ones have really cool hubcaps....

The bushings used to support the ends of the auger are also the same for all three machines. All in stock at the dealer - $3. each. If your old Craftsman uses the same bushings you can replace them and tighten it right up.

Garandman wrote:
Garandman,
You are so right. You know exactly where I'm coming from.
I'm an engineer that went to the dark side about 10 years ago and starting doing sales and market. Mainly for job survival on the Island..... Been a technologist in the marketing dept of an avionics firm, sales manager, apps engineer and marketing dir for new products at the same time.
In my area of engineering, the engineering jobs alone were dying off on the island at the time, forget about the number jobs for an engineering manager or director.. you could count those jobs on one hand, even missing fingers.  I found as an engineer, I could do better than most "pure salesmen" in the specific tech world I work in and enjoy working at the front end level of the programs with the customers.

As said earlier, if I couldn't find any more info, I would be buying the Toro, that's just where the comment was coming from Garandman, you hit the nail on the head.
But coming here, I've been given great additional info and it's proven to be worth my time to take some more looksies.

Most parts for the Craftsman and Toro are only a few miles away, I only ordered through mail order what I couldn't buy asap from the local repair shop or parts I could wait for.  I did read the parts were available through Ariens, mail order.  Not the same as same day at the local dealer and with so many Toro dealers, better chance of finding a part I would guess.  So my comment was really addressing the local availability of the parts and the number of brick and motar places that carry the parts.
The two local shops that sell/service Toro that  I went to said they don't work on and can't get the Ariens parts, I'm sure there's more to that, like they can't buy the parts at a dealer discount, so they won't.  And if they aren't factory authorized, they wont stock the parts... not that they truly can't. But the main fact is, they don't.
Kinda forces the desicion if I don't branch out, basically as Garandman has pointed out.

I do like the idea of 24" and almost 11hp... I like the snow volume to power ratio that those numbers suggest.
I don't see a few inches of cutting width making a large difference in my problem.
I did not see that combination last night on there model matrix. Will have to look again.

I apperciate the comment about the Ariens Pro's at the dealers... not the HD versions...
I found one dealer for Simplicity, not to far away, in a more expensive part of town.
Again, need to really look at the dealer network one more time.
Hopefully this weekend.
The ZTR sounds interesting, haven't read a thing about that.


How about the Snapper and Simplicity connection? Any?

Thanks Gents...
-Bob

If it's good honest Toro dealers you have access to and little or no access to an Ariens dealer, then I'd be looking at a Toro. I realize that you can get parts by using the phone, internet, etc, but sometimes it is essential to have a guy with grease under his nails that knows the local conditions, is familiar with the latest service bullitins, to help you out with a problem. Simplicity and Snapper are now the same company (all owned by Briggs & Stratton) and also make mighty fine snowblowers, so check them out too.

As an aside, I seldom if ever here much about Deere's Frontier line of snowblowers here. They are very expensive at my local dealer, but seem to be well built although I have never used one in snow. Don't they work well? Any inherant problems? I also realize that Deere doesn't build these themselves, that they are (or were) made by Murray in recent years. Is that the problem with them? Just curious.