Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I've just spent a ton of time reading all the old posts on this forum from Jan 2005 till present.
Lots of cool info. And a few hot threads... I don't tend to repeat such an event in this thread.

I see a lot of Ariens owners on this site. But I've not seen those owners knocking Toro either.
So I figured it would be a good place to share my story and get some opinions to help finalize my selection.

I'll tell my story, honest and true, but it will sound a bit like trashing Craftsman, or maybe not... maybe it wasn't the right tool for the job?.

I've been shopping now for about a month for a new snowblower  and have come to some conclusions and have read a lot of  "Facts" or better put "statements".
I'd like to run them by the crew here as well.

First, my story and what I'm dealing with........
15 years ago, after getting into a very bad car accident due to the permant damage, I can no longer shovel the snow off my driveway.
So in a lurch that snow season I bought what I could afford. How could I go wrong with Craftsman? It was such a deal.

My driveway....
It's 150ft long, from the garage to the street, with the entire east side is up against a 6 ft fence on the property line.
On the west side, no easy access to get ride of the snow.
It's single width for most of it's length ( 10-11ft wide), except for the last 25feet, it's a bit over double width - 25ft wide.
The 1st 30 feet ( starting at my garage), my trailer blocks me from throwing snow to the rear lawn... there's about 10 feet of open space between the trailer and house. So starting at the garage, traveling north,  I blow the snow to that point on the drive way, across from the opening between the house and trailer.  I make a mound on the drive way to Que up the snow. Then as needed I work on the mound and  throw it to the rear lawn, easterly.
Then the next 44 feet of  the driveway is between the house on the west side and and the fence on the east side. So I start at the mid point of the house and go southernly, throwing  the snow to the Queing point on the drive way across from that opening to the rear lawn in front of the trailer, then once again as needed I work the mound and  blow that mound to the rear lawn. I may do it several times so the mound doesnt become too much for the blower.
Now I go back to the mid section of the house, and start blowing to the street end ( heading north) of the driveway making mounds and moving it to points on the driveway and eventually to the front lawn.  I can't use a plow, if I did, I would blow out my basement windows and fence.
And I'm at a dead end.. so I get the mother of EODs to deal with.... the whole front of my house is EOD, since I have to clear room for the mail box and for the mai truck to turn around and the double car width of the drive way.
I can amass 5 ft piles of snow with a 1 - 1.5 ft snow storm on my front lawn and on the rear lawn.
The drifts between my house and the fence have topped the 6 ft  fence  on a 45 deg angle once or twice.
The thing is the Craftsman doesn't throw very far, so on the rear lawn, it looks more like a sand dune and once the pile gets too big, I can throw over it.
And since it didn't throw far enough to start with, if I get too many snow storms I can have a problem if it doesn't melt inbetween.
And by the time the time I've made this dune, the snow has been moved so many times, it very compact and heavy and it's too much for the blower.
Been very lucky so far. And if I don't clean the drive way, with the melting and freezing we get, I wind up with ice and drainage problems.
So I have to get the snow off of the driveway.
I live on Long Island. One 2005 snow storm took me 4 hours to clean up, the other took me about 3 hours.
A few inches of snow.. takes about an hour and a half or a so. Never less than an hour's time.

So what I've been beating to death is a  25" 6HP 2stage Craftsman snowblower, which is about 15 years old now.
I'm handy and do most of my own auto work and home renovations,I can weld a bit and such.
All came in handy while owning the Craftsman.
Right from the get go, during the  the 1st year, I blew belts. I'm sure to blow one or more belts for the drive or the auger during a season.
After using up all the ones I orderd from Sears one seasons, I decide to replace them with automotive belts, which must of tripled my uptime between blowing up belts.

After the 10th year of owning this machine ( bought it new), I called sears parts, once again, to order some more spare parts  for stock so I can fix it when it breaks during the season and to my surprise they couldn't find my machine listed. After some discussion, the punchline was,  they said.....  "when a machine is 10 years or older, it's not in the system any longer since we do not expect it to still be in service" ..."and we may not stock the parts"  I quote.

So with the p/n's in hand I was still able to get friction disk and cable and shoes and some other hardware... all came not in sear bags as in past , but it was either YTD or MTD.. I'd have to go out to the workshop and look. All were correct and looked just like the original parts.

I've taken that machine apart so many times that the threaded holes in the sheetmetal were gone and I had to put PEM nuts in for the case so I could still screw it back together and take it apart as needed.
The front auger gear box is now ratteling around with tons of end play on each of the inputs of the three shafts. I'm afraid of that just come apart in pieces one year.
It's time to shoot it and put it out of it's missery.

The engine still runs strong, it's a Tecumseh SnowKing 6hp... still starts well. Just started using oil this year.
At the 10th year, had to replace the carb. Over the years I've had to unstick this, replace that, de-rust this to get something moving again in the "transmission" or drive disk housing. I guess pretty normal stuff considering?

So with all my problems I figured I was just over working this light duty machine ( or it's a POS?). So I started looking at the Ariens. A friend of mine from NH says that up there the machine of choice, and he owns, is a Toro.
I started reading that the Ariens don't really have the quaility they used to and parts are hard to come by and there are fewer and fewer authorized dealers each year.
As I looked around, everyone here sells Toro. I can't find a local shop selling Ariens. A few Polound (spelling) dealers.. never ran across that brand online during my research.

Last year was the first time I saw the HD ( the big orange box) selling Ariens. After visiting Ariens' website, I found that HD wasn't selling the better grade of Ariens either.
I have a bunch of good local dealers selling Toro.
After looking at both machines, the Toro's at the dealers and the Ariens at the HD, it seemed that the Toro had heavier steal and impressive braces from the outer ends of the front housing to the frame.

I do see both as premium brands. But is the Ariens that the HD is selling apple and oranges to the Toro's at the dealers?
Do I need to be looking at a better grade Ariens at a dealer?
Or am I just not seeing a good comparasion since they aren't truly side by side?
Again I read statements else where saying that the lesser grade of Ariens doesn't use as thick of metal, no real bearings-just bushing and such.

I've come to think I should buy a 10hp 28" snowblower to get it as far as possible and to deal with my EOD and Queing piles.
Smaller opening and more power = more power to push out the snow that's in the blades as far as possible. Bigger opening = more snow with same power =  less available pressure to push present snow out the chute.
I'd buy a 26" 10hp if I could. As it is with my present blower, I take 1/2 width cuts to keep the loading down with heavy snow.
I wanted the 11hp from Toro, but the auto adjusting scraping blade is getting bad reviews around here.... so two dealers say and they have the 11hp model to sell me, it's not like they don't.
And with the added price... ~$300 from the 10 to the 11hp.. not sure if I need the extra 1hp.. until I read that the 11hp is the OHV and a better series of engines from Tecumseh.  Being on Long Island, we can get 2 inches or  2 feet. Either way it can start melting before your done cleaning, or the snow can start to turn to rain.. in which case you better start cleaning before it refreezes. So it's usually a very heavy snow, rarely light and fluffy.
And with moving pile to pile to pile, it tends to compact and become wetter each time , even if it's not warm enough to melt.
So been thinking big and tough and strong, real bearings - no bronze sleeves,  so I'm not loosing nuts and bolts to stripping threads, and blowing belts and seizing things up. The funny part, I never lost a sheer bolt on the auger. My father as the same model, but track drive and a few years newer, and he always blows his sheer bolts.

So I've been drawn to the Toro, more dealers around and more service centers. 12months free financing.
I've been thinking atleast 10hp.. but still thinking about the 11hp (also better engine)... but the auto scraper and money keep bringing me back to the 10hp model.
Since I have a lot of spinning around, turning todo of the machine and of the chute ( kinda like a MA1A, I have to aim and shoot on the go to make the piles in the right place) , the Toro keeps my attention with it's stick chute control, over the fine and old reputation of the Ariens.
Every time the Craftsman broke, while I was turning wrenches and warming up next to the turbo heater, I kept telling myself I'm buying a Ariens.
So now it's time to spend a good chunk of money, and I've run into to the Toro during my research.
And honestly, if I couldn't find anymore info I would either be buying the 10hp or the 11hp Toro.
But as an engineer, the more data the better.


So,
Can I go wrong with the Toro?
Any long term issue with the trigger stearing on the Toro?
10hp vs 11hp?
Is the new  "automatic leveling scraper" a liability? (maybe it has todo with how much icing and heavy snow we get here?)
I see a lot of plastic on the Toro, my only real negative, problems?
(my plastic chute on my Craftsman never broke and for half it's life, my drive way was 3/4" gravel not blacktop like it is now, but that was the only real plastic "hardworking" piece on it.)

Sorry about my spelling, and writing. English was never my best subject, and I never can proof read what I write, I always read what I thought I wrote.

Not too much posion on those arrows please, " just the facts mam, just the facts".....

Thanks abunch and sorry about the long winded post, I guess I babbled long enough at the keyboard...

Bob
Long Island, NY

PS:
This is what we like to do during the summer...
www.tdr4x4.com/files/camping7.jpg
older, but more camping/fishing pix...  www.tdr4x4.com/dt/

And after the 1st snow storm last year, daughter snapped some pix after I finished cleaning and went to work...
http://www.tdr4x4.com/firstsnow2005/

.

"input... input goood"... "more input"......

thanks folks...

Had to go the bank today, so on the way back stopped at the local dealer again to ask what other machines he can get, as he had mentioned.
It all brewed into a very interesting BS session.

Toro has made it very easy for him to be a dealer and the quality has been very good.  He went into some nice detail, which I wont go into here, about how well they handle their dealers and parts and such. So he tends to stock a lot of Toro parts.

Last year there was recall on one part on the machines, he didn't experiance any problems through his customers.
But every machine he sold, he was paid by Toro to get back and replace the part in question.

He had MTD last year, he can sell me one this year. He's not stocking them this year and after this year he's dropping them and wont sell them again, doesn't trust the quality, even though the price point is good to meet competition with the local Sears hardware and HD, he wont sell them.

He never had Ariens, doesn't have any experiance with them. Wasn't and isn't watching what they are or aren't doing either. He had nothing to add about Ariens and didn't attempt to trash them either.

He used to sell the Snapper Blowers, but after some large holding company bought them, things went south and he didn't feel right selling them any more, he didn't trust the quality. He did have problems. He is so very glad to see the change of ownership and is excited about it.

He has heard all good things about Simplicity and now that they own Snapper, and B&S owns both, more so since Simplicity owns Snapper, he is back to carring what  they are offering. He doesn't have any models or literature in yet. He expects them in by mid August, maybe at the end of August. He's not sure if they will be marketing them as two different names or as one this year. He didn't remember what he had read, he ordered units for stock, but doesn't remember the details.

He has some commercial accounts that he has sold 11hp Sim/Snap's to last year as well as the 11hp Toro's.
They like both, but the 11hp Toro came with that auto adjusting scrapper. Some times when they hit an uneven surface and scrapper does what it's suppose todo, it rides up, but stays stuck up at that point, and the blower starts to leave inches of snow on the ground. So those commercial accounts favor the Sim/Snap machines they have due to this problem. So that's where his negative comments came about the auto leveling scrapper.

The dealer said that soon, the L head engines will be no more and it will all be the OHV engines. Such as it seems Simp. is only offering OHV engines on their model selection guide I read on their site. I email Simp for a brouchure. I called Toro for a new brouchure.

He doesn't have a price list yet. So I haven't been able to find out how much the Sim 10hp/24" will be, but their website says list $1600
http://www.simplicitymfg.com/s_commercial_snow.php
But from what he remembered of the Sim/Snap 11/28 (website list shows $1900) it a bit more than the 11/28 from Toro, and that's getting a bit too pricey for me since the Toro is $1650 or so, with tax, too much. I don't think I can push the budget to $1650 + tax.

The 10/28 Toro ~ $1350, with Tax and zero financing  and for all the moving and shooting I need to do to build my piles, I'm with LL, the single stick is soo nice. I did play with one a month ago. Very nice. Makes it much easier. Now I stop, do the spin of the chute, loosen huge wing nut for the elevation extension on the chute, re-adjust and re-tighten and I'm off... I'm always spinning the chute around for each pass, and tweaking the aim as I go down a section, if it wasn't for the two large deadman levers that come together at the center of thehandle on my Craftsman, it would be soo much worse. I hold down both with one hand and I'm forever tweaking the chute with the other hand..

http://www.ariens.com/pdf/Ariens_Master_Spec_Sheet.pdf
I like the Ariens 11hpOHV / 26" Pro model. 14inch impeller and 16" auger!  Their quick chute turn looks nice, have to try it.
The others are 12" and 14".

I know the Ariens and the Simp/Snap have remote elevation controls , beside the turning of the chute.
Still want to visit the Ariens dealer. Hopefully this weekend.
But my local, trusted guy, is making  too easy to buy the Toro.


-Bob

I would say Toro even though I have the Ariens 926 DLE Professional and like it very very much.  It sounds like you need the joystick on the Toro to help you better.  Ariens has 3 years warranty excluding the engine.  The Toro's plastic was tested rigeriously by Toro and I also understand it to be the best that can be put on a snowthrower.  I'd try to stick with an OHV engine.  Richie, also has a Toro 828 LE I believe, I may be incorrect. 

Hi again.
If it helps here is what I learned in my quest.

My old toro was great, and many like the new ones with the joystick, etc.  I know it is probably old fashioned thinking, but the plastic scared me.  The plastic on the craftsmans I was told by a sears worker break all the time. the plastics are probablt different, but it scared me, especially when Toro had a recall on some plastic.  Please, that is just my dumb opinion, I'm not picking any fights......

The joystick sounds nice, but I am happy with my Ariens......left to right (or visa-versa) is only TWO turns of the crank.  My old toro was 13 turns to do the same thing.

The traction control on the Ariens PRO models , and their great customer service is what sold me.  My Ariens dealer is 5 miles up the road from me.  The Toro/honda dealer is about 4 miles from me, but for reasons I'd better not say, I did not think I wanted to buy from him.  The Simplicity dealer is about 7 miles from me, but was so laid back that I had to beg him to sell me something.....he no longer is a Simplicity dealer.  Partly from my urging, a independent OPE small engine/tool repair shop here in town, (about 3 miles from me), is now the new Simplicity dealer, and is doing great.

Ya gotta like your dealer as much as you like your machine.   Shop your dealer as much as your machine.  Toro, Ariens, Simplicity all make good units,  With your careful shopping you will be happy with whatever you choose.

Keep us posted!!

Frank D.

Hi there Bob,

You are a perfect candidate for the Toro 828LXE.  You don't need the 10 HP model, and the 11 HP OHV version you're going to pay a huge premium to purchase it.  It's just not worth it.  I too live on Long Island and used my 828LXE all last season.  Toro's PowerMax feature is no hype and works better than anything I've used to date.  This machine tossed snow so well, whether wet or dry, so consistently, it really was amazing to me.  The power steering feature, which consists of two triggers, one under each handle, made blowing such a pleasure, I couldn't wait for it to snow. 

The trigger release also works when the machine is not running, so you'll NEVER have to muscle the machine back into the garage.  I'm not going to get into the horse power thing because I don't want to have to deal with that horrible thread ever again, but trust me, you will be very please with the 828.  If you'd like, feel free to contact me and stop by my home this weekend to take my Toro for a spin.  I'd be more than happy to demo it for you.  If you decide to purchase it, this is the one and only dealer that made the purchase a pleasure, below.  I've been dealing with them for over 30 years now.  I assume Toro still delivers the machine to your home free of charge.  I also assume that during the warranty period, they still come to your home, pick the machine up, service it, and drop it back off to you free of charge.

MINEOLA BICYCLE SERVICE
475 JERICHO TURNPIKE
MINEOLA, NY 11501
(516) 742-5253 

Everybody is providing great advice from their experiance.  The point that is most importent, as most agree, is buy a quality machine  from a servicing dealer that you know and can work with.

And, " Overpowered is usualy adequate". That way, you wont regret buying a machine that has to labour and strain to get the lob done in a timly manor.

 I agree with Richie. For the usage you describe, the Toro 828 LXE seems like a perfect fit. The combination of the Power Max, Quick-chute and several Toro dealers to choose from (for parts availability) make this choice easy. By all means, the Ariens and Simplicity deserve serious consideration...but I think once you try the Toro you'll like it. I have 2 year old 726te and I'm more than happy with it.

AZ

faithfulFrank wrote:
Ya gotta like your dealer as much as you like your machine.   Shop your dealer as much as your machine.

That is very true.  MM, also some good advice. 

It truly shows that we have a great family forum here.  Richie that's a great offer, and I hope you 2 get along with that trial. 

AJace wrote:
Thanks AJ.  If  Bob kicks the tires on it, he'll buy it

Man, you guys call yourselves engineers.....

This is the perfect opportunity to rig up a remote discharge elevation (it's only a cable). And why mess with a manual joystick when you could use a servo motor? The you could  have 4 or 5 memory settings and just punch a button and it would swivel  where you wanted it. 

And as far as factory offerings....a perusal of the Ariens manuals seems to show the tractor portion of the ST824 (model 924050 is the one I have) the same for the 8 hp 24" models and the 12 hp 32" models.  So I'm looking for an 11 or 12 hp Tecumseh and it looks like a 13 hp B&S Intek Snow will bolt on. I'm still working on the details for an 18 hp B&S or Honda V twin, I don't really want to get into engineering a muffler system - yet.

I would look at the Snappers and Simplicitys. And the Ariens and the Toros.  And the Hondas, if you think you might like tracks.

Ritchie loves his Toro. He put a different carb on to make it run the way he thinks it should. His experience from last year was extremely interesting, I thought.

Frank loves his Ariens.  He put more thought and effort into his decision than most people put into thier houses.

Others love thier Intek snows.  Would not own anything else, quiet and  powerful.  The Snappers and Simplictys have Inteks and easy turn.

Then there are the Honda lovers.

You are going to have a fun choice.  It does not look like the Mitsubishis will make it in time for your end of August deadline.  Good luck, have fun.