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Consumer Reports called into question (Read 795 times)
just-passing-throu
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Consumer Reports called into question
01/18/07 at 4:38pm
 
I know this is a tiny bit off topic, but we have had many discussions about Consumer Reports and their accuracy in the past.  Now we learn today that they "outsource" their testing and report the results without verifying the outcomes.  
 
Maybe the Asian bias they have shown for years is because their outsource is JAPAN.  (Ok the report didn't say where it was outsourced which again calls the testing into question).    I Feel  that this revelation can call into question every other report they do/have done.
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16691288/
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HARDSELL
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Re: Consumer Reports called into question
Reply #1 - 01/18/07 at 7:31pm
 
Oh no!   I wonder how many of those rug institute tests are farmed out.
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Carmine_Difazio
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Re: Consumer Reports called into question
Reply #2 - 01/18/07 at 8:37pm
 
Quote from HARDSELL on 01/18/07 at 7:31pm:
Oh no!   I wonder how many of those rug institute tests are farmed out.

 
Or these auto tests:
 
Quote from HARDSELL on 10/04/06 at 10:12pm:


One of your favorite publications rates this way:
MOST RELIABLE:
SEDANS: Lexus GS300/GS430*, Infiniti M35/45*, Lexus IS300 (2005), Honda Accord Hybrid*, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord 4-cyl., Lexus LS430

LEAST RELIABLE: SEDANS: Jaguar S-Type, Lincoln LS, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Saab 9-3, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, BMW 5-Series (V8), Audi A8, Chrysler 300 (V8)*, BMW 7 series

Lexus and Toyota lead the way in quality after 90 days of ownership.  How long does WSJ drive a car before reporting?  Real life information relates to more than a test drive.  Convince me only after testing more than one vehicle.  Take it to a dealer and report on how the service (repair) was handled.  

You presented the opinion of 1 publication and I gave another's.  2 reports, 2 different opinons.  Which is correct?

The price increases on the BMW's reflect the added warranty.  How much does it cost to service an auto for 50,000 miles?  10 oil changes and oil filters = $300 or less.  Air filters $35 or less.  Wiper blades $50 max.  These are the only maintenance items that should be necessary in 50,000 miles.  These same services at a BMW dealer would be 5 to 10 times more expensive.  

The 525 may be a value at it's price point but it still is not a real value for me.

It is a known fact ( of the buying public ) that used Toyota's are excellent values.  It is also a known fact that BMW's are very problem prone and not as valued for quality on the used market.  This without the opinions of a variety reporter.

Perhaps the  BMW warranty will give a perception of better quality.   I pity the owners after the honeymoon (warranty) has expired.



 
Carmine D.
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RAT
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Re: Consumer Reports called into question
Reply #3 - 01/18/07 at 10:17pm
 
I don't see anything wrong with CU farming out tests that it can't run in their own labs.   They attempt to provide tests that are both accurate and useful for real world usage.  CU was quick to publicize and acknowledge the mistake.  The point of their original article was that tests of car seats in the US are less stringent than perhaps they ought to be is still valid.  The children who were killed in real world situations when car seats failed are still dead too.   It's also a valid point that car seat manufacturers have additional safety features on their European models where standards are higher.   While the mistake is certainly embarrassing for CU, improving car seat safety standards is a worthy goal.
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HARDSELL
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Re: Consumer Reports called into question
Reply #4 - 01/19/07 at 7:02am
 
Carmine,
If memory serves me correctly, I was giving this same info to you when you were praising one of the subject autos.  You asked for evidence that would back my claim.  I did some research and found the report.  
 
I had not read the report prior to giving my opinion.  The information as reported is common knowledge with most persons who have even a small passion for cars.  I repeat,  experience is better than a few hours of use by a reporter who will write about anything to make a story.
 
Rat,
I suppose that you also suport farming out customer service, insurance and benefits and almost everything else associated with a business.
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Carmine_Difazio
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Re: Consumer Reports called into question
Reply #5 - 01/19/07 at 7:28am
 
In its 71 year history, Consumer Reports has 2 retractions.  One in 1998 on pet food and now this one on car seats TWO WEEKS ago.  The original report appears in the Feb 2007 CR issue.  
 
The CU retraction and apology are both quick with the news media spreading the word.  Just like the original report.  A revised car seat safety report is due out, with I suspect, an autopsy of went went wrong with the first.  
 
Most, I believe, applaud CR for getting the news out quickly, both for the original report, and the retraction.  In the former, time was of the essence because the lifes of innocent babies and children entrusted to their parents, providers and caregivers are at stake.  Is there anything in the universe that Americans hold more precious than these lifes?  Anything that is more important to us than their safety, protection and well-being?  No.  H-E-double hockey sticks NO!  In the latter, for CR's honesty and integrity.
 
I agree that this is a big embarrassment for CU......but certainly not its death knell.
 
BTW, the Feb 2007 CR, the edition with the original car seat safety report, said ratings of 60 vacuums are coming soon!  Smiley
 
Carmine D.
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Carmine_Difazio
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Re: Consumer Reports called into question
Reply #6 - 01/21/07 at 7:18am
 
Quote from HARDSELL on 01/19/07 at 7:02am:


I had not read the report prior to giving my opinion.  The information as reported is common knowledge with most persons who have even a small passion for cars.  I repeat,  experience is better than a few hours of use by a reporter who will write about anything to make a story.


 
Hello HARDSELL:
 
I could not have said it better.  I believe the same is true about vacuum cleaners.  Smiley
 
Carmine D.
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just-passing-throu
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Re: Consumer Reports called into question
Reply #7 - 01/22/07 at 10:12am
 
Here is what I see wrong in outsourcing testing.  Though (Consumer's Union)  CU may be "un-biased" and accepts not advertising.  We don't know who is supporting the labs they outsource to.  What CU should do in their reports is to state the testing institute which performed the test.  The test method that was used, and the background of that lab.  
 
Everything can be a variable in testing, including the testor.  CR used to report on their testing methods, maybe they have dropped this practice in an effort to save type space, and paper; it does, however, call into quetion the results for me.  
 
This should serve as a lesson to consumers what has been stated many times here before.  "Consumer Reports is a guide, not a Bible."  
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Carmine_Difazio
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Re: Consumer Reports called into question
Reply #8 - 01/22/07 at 3:43pm
 
Quote from just-passing-throu on 01/22/07 at 10:12am:
Here is what I see wrong in outsourcing testing.  Though (Consumer's Union)  CU may be "un-biased" and accepts not advertising.  We don't know who is supporting the labs they outsource to.  

.....This should serve as a lesson to consumers what has been stated many times here before.  "Consumer Reports is a guide, not a Bible."

 
Hello Just-passing-throu:
 
I disagree with you on the first point.  The purpose of keeping the anonymity of the testing labs is to prevent brand makers and others from influencing the test results.  Anonymity is critical and crucial to prevent conflicts of interest and influence peddling by the product makers.
 
BTW, Sharper Image, maker of the Ionic Breeze, a product that came under severe and sharp criticism by CR, settled a lawsuit over its Air Purifier.  Sharper Image agreed to DISCOUNT its high tech gadgets by more than $60 MILLION and make several other concessions to settle A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT alleging the specialty retailer misled customers about the effectiveness of its air purifiers.  (A point made by CR in its reviews).  Under the proposed settlement, that still requires court approval (scheduled for March 1), Sharper Image among other things, will offer $19 merchandise credits to each of roughly 3.2 MILLION consumers who have bought one of its "Ionic Breeze" purifiers since May 6, 1999.  
 
PS:  I believe the saying goes:  "Consumer Reports is a guide, not the gospel."  But you're close enough.  Wink
 
Carmine D.  
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« Last Edit: 01/23/07 at 7:53am by Carmine_Difazio »  
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RAT
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Re: Consumer Reports called into question
Reply #9 - 01/26/07 at 4:38pm
 
A letter from CU President Jim Guest - sent to subscribers
 
By now, you've probably heard the news about my decision to withdraw the infant car seat report featured on ConsumerReports.org and in the February issue of Consumer Reports magazine. I took this action when we discovered a mistake in our side-impact crash tests.
 
We always strive to be accurate and fair, and I regret this error. Going forward, I want to make sure that our actions are as thorough and transparent as possible so that we preserve your trust as we continue to test, inform, and protect consumers. To that end, I'm writing you and the millions of other Consumers Union members to tell you what I know about the situation and what we're doing about it.
 
Here's what I know so far: One of our tests was intended to simulate how infant car seats perform in a side-impact crash at 38 mph. That's the speed at which many new vehicles are tested in side crashes by the government's auto safety agency. But upon reevaluating our data, we believe our tests simulated crashes that were much more severe than that.
 
Some of the questions I've heard involve our use of an outside lab to conduct the crash tests. While the vast majority of product testing by Consumers Union occurs in our own labs, we sometimes use outside contractors that have special test equipment or other expertise that we don't. This enables us to inform you about the safety, reliability, and performance of important products that we couldn't otherwise test.
 
That said, we expect all our testing to meet the same high standards, and our own staff oversees all projects. The board of directors and I are appointing a panel of experts to review this incident and determine what went wrong.
 
We're also retesting the infant car seats featured in our article as thoroughly and quickly as possible, so that we can publish our findings and help parents who are making this important buying decision. I've directed that we suspend the article's Ratings and other recommendations regarding specific car-seat models until this retesting is completed. In any case, I again stress the importance of what we say in the article: Any child car seat is better than no seat at all.
 
For 71 years, the staff of Consumers Union has worked hard to earn the trust of members like you and to build the stellar reputation we have enjoyed. We test more than 3,000 products each year, and errors like this one are rare. I apologize on behalf of Consumers Union and I promise you we're working hard to ensure that such an error does not happen again.
 
Sincerely,
 
 
 
Jim Guest
President
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