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Dyson's The Ball (DC15) (Read 25740 times)
Bruce
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Re: Dyson's The Ball (DC15)
Reply #510 - 02/22/06 at 1:58pm
 
Quote from Carmine_Difazio   on 02/22/06 at 1:07pm:
"Suction" in the industry does not apply to the upright carpet cleaning mode.  It applies to suction for tool use.

When suction is meant to apply to the upright cleaning carpet mode the industry uses the vernacular "carpet nozzle suction."

Anthing else I can clarify for you Jimbo?

Carmine D.

 
 
So then you agree with Jim's statement the ASTM F558 test method refers to "suction" for above floor cleaning? What about "carpet nozzle suction" cleaning performance? A new term I don't think I've ever seen you refer to on this forum. Am I right?  
 
As another poster previously pointed out, it all boils down to smoke and mirrors. LOL
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JimB
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Re: Dyson's The Ball (DC15)
Reply #511 - 02/22/06 at 1:58pm
 
Imagine that, the mysterious unwritten unverifiable "industry standard" defense with a little bit of "trying to skew the definition of a word" thrown in, who would of "thunk it".
 
Let's try in laymen terms for consumers.  The claim you are touting is for:  a brand new never used before machine, suction from the attachment hose in a labratory setting and certainly not if you are trying to actually clean a carpet, only covering the life of the machine for "up to" 10 oz of dirt (or a partially full soda can of dirt).  Furthermore even at this level of claim, CR still rates it at "not recommended" because of an unnacceptable amount of this "up to" 10 oz of dirt was only taken into the machine to be sent out into the rooms air.
 
You can actually help me with why a company would want to talk to its consumers using this as an example or your unwritten industry standard.
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Bruce
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Re: Dyson's The Ball (DC15)
Reply #512 - 02/22/06 at 2:21pm
 
But remember Jim, the Fusion removes 13% more dirt than a Dyson according to the ASTM F608 methodology.  
 
Keep in mind this is a "laboratory" test that is suppose to "represent real world conditions" using fake dirt.  Gee, I wonder where that extra 13% of debris ends up. According to CR it certainly ain't in the dirt receptacle. LOL
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RAT
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Re: Dyson's The Ball (DC15)
Reply #513 - 02/22/06 at 2:38pm
 
Quote from JimB   on 02/22/06 at 1:58pm:
Imagine that, the mysterious unwritten unverifiable "industry standard" defense with a little bit of "trying to skew the definition of a word" thrown in, who would of "thunk it".

Let's try in laymen terms for consumers. The claim you are touting is for: a brand new never used before machine, suction from the attachment hose in a labratory setting and certainly not if you are trying to actually clean a carpet, only covering the life of the machine for "up to" 10 oz of dirt (or a partially full soda can of dirt). Furthermore even at this level of claim, CR still rates it at "not recommended" because of an unnacceptable amount of this "up to" 10 oz of dirt was only taken into the machine to be sent out into the rooms air.

You can actually help me with why a company would want to talk to its consumers using this as an example or your unwritten industry standard.

 
Jim B,
 
I believe the 10oz originated with Dyson's original claim.  
Hoover used the same 10oz to standardize to the Dyson test.  Surely you are familiar with that test and the accompanying chart.  All other vacuums were supposed to completely lose suction after inhaling only 10oz of dirt.  Hoover used the same 10oz to disprove Dyson's statement.    
 
I'm glad to hear that you are quoting from Consumer Reports.  I'm kind of surprised that you would be allowed to acknowledge Consumer Reports.
 
Now Dyson is resorting to the dust mite campaign (see Dyson web page) used in the past by sleazy door-to-door brands.  First of all, I don't see the point in demonizing dust mites.  They provide a very important function in devouring dead skin cells.  Where is the proof that using a Dyson will have any effect at all on dust mite population in the home?  This ad is more misleading than anything David Oreck has ever done.  With a bagless vacuum like the Dyson, just how many dust mites are released every time the bin is emptied?  
 
By the way, the term "industry standard" is appropriate for describing ASTM tests.  That is the whole point of having a standard.  These standards are not static either.  Methodologies are improved as technology advances.  
 
CR was right to warn consumers about potential problems with the Hoover Fusion; however, it is not clear whether the problem is widespread.  It very well may be, or it could just be a problem with a batch of products.  I would recommend that Walmart consumers purchase bagged vacuums to avoid the leakage problems associated with bagless vacuums.  Bagless vacuums are just plain filthy to empty.  If I had to own a bagless vacuum, it would be the Rainbow, because at least the dirt would be dissolved in water and relatively easy to empty.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Carmine_Difazio
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Re: Dyson's The Ball (DC15)
Reply #514 - 02/22/06 at 2:53pm
 
Quote from Bruce   on 02/22/06 at 1:58pm:



So then you agree with Jim's statement the ASTM F558 test method refers to "suction" for above floor cleaning? What about "carpet nozzle suction" cleaning performance? A new term I don't think I've ever seen you refer to on this forum. Am I right?  

As another poster previously pointed out, it all boils down to smoke and mirrors. LOL

 
The Bruce Standard:  If Bruce never heard of the industry vernacular, it must be a new term.  Grin
 
I think you will probably get several posters to accept the Bruce Standard.   Grin
 
You can add it to the new definition for "infer."  "To imply."  Grin
 
Carmine D.
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JimB
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Re: Dyson's The Ball (DC15)
Reply #515 - 02/22/06 at 3:06pm
 
Quote from RAT   on 02/22/06 at 2:38pm:


Jim B,

I believe the 10oz originated with Dyson's original claim.  
Hoover used the same 10oz to standardize to the Dyson test.  



 
The Dyson claim is that others loose suction after as little as 10 oz.  The Hoover claim is that the Hoover Fusion will maintain constant suction for "up to" 10 oz.  Clever marketing and careful wording but notice how carefully Hoover worded it to not to in actuality dispute the Dyson claim.  Perhaps we can call it the "Carmine" standard.
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tiger21
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Re: Dyson's The Ball (DC15)
Reply #516 - 02/22/06 at 3:07pm
 
 If I remember correctly it was the Hoover Windtunnel Bagless that cleaned 54% more dirt than Dyson. They did not claim to lose suction. They claimed to clean better.  
  Test F608 is used for carpet cleaning effectiveness. F558 is used on the machines with hsoes. The test 60312 has the test dirt premeasured and picked up.  The 10 oz. was a Dyson ad stating no loss of suction after 10 Oz.
  Ads are changing from Dyson probably from misleading advertising that is confusing the public just like Hoover's Cleaning Effectiveness per Amp.
  The ad with the dust mite is quite misleading. If you are allergic to Dust Mites two machines you don't want are Bagless and Water Bowl vacuum cleaners.
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JimB
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Re: Dyson's The Ball (DC15)
Reply #517 - 02/22/06 at 3:11pm
 
Quote from Carmine_Difazio   on 02/22/06 at 2:53pm:




You can add it to the new definition for "infer."  "To imply."  Grin

Carmine D.

 
I believe the first common written use of this "new" definition for "infer" was by Thomas More more than a few centuries ago.  Now that seems like a solid standard.  Grin
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Carmine_Difazio
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Re: Dyson's The Ball (DC15)
Reply #518 - 02/22/06 at 3:11pm
 

I finally realized the huge opposition to the vacuum industry's accepted test standards by some mis- informed posters here.  They don't understand correct English usage.  Cheesy  
 
Carmine D.
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Carmine_Difazio
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Re: Dyson's The Ball (DC15)
Reply #519 - 02/22/06 at 3:14pm
 
Quote from JimB   on 02/22/06 at 3:11pm:


I believe the first common written use of this "new" definition for "infer" was by Thomas More more than a few centuries ago.  Now that seems like a solid standard.  Grin

 
 
Did he have any More new definitions for English words?
 
BTW, his name is Thomas Moore.   Wink
 
Carmine D.
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