WhatsTheBest-Vacuum.com
Vacuum Cleaners HomeVacuum Cleaners Buying GuideFeatured ProductsVacuum Cleaners ForumVacuum Cleaner ReviewsAbout Us

- Featured Products


What's the Best
- Vacuum Cleaners
- Contact Us
- Privacy Policy


 
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register.
Home Help Search Login Register


Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print
The filter vs the bag type of vacuum cleaner (Read 1158 times)
cprohman
Ultimate Member
*****


What is YaBB 1G -
SP1???

Posts: 1083
Re:  The filter vs the bag type of vacuum cle
Reply #10 - 03/27/07 at 12:06pm
 
Quote from guess_who on 03/19/07 at 9:09pm:
In areas where's there's lots of milage to put in on carpeted floors along with other regular tasks, a bagged lightweight upright with a disposable bag of good size, that is fairly sturdy of build and that is simple to maintain saves time and money despite expected abuse. I'd be hard pressed to imagine any business establishment that sucessfully gets an employee to properly clean bagless vacuum filters for long. If time is money, then to my mind the two dollar bag pays for itself by the decrease in time required for a decently paid worker to effectively clean out a bagless vacuum or a vacuum with a re-usable cloth bag.

I've had exactly the opposite experience. I have never had much luck getting employees to change bags, so bagged vacuums have been maintenence nightmares, getting plugged up from over-filled bags. Meanwhile they do dump the bagless vacuums, so the bagless ones work better. Now that we've been using the Dysons for 4-5 years, I have seen a few times when the filters don't get washed, but on the whole there have been dramatically less issues than with the bagged vacs. Interestingly, where we used bagged canisters, those bags do get changed, but bagged uprights were a real problem.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
guess_who
Junior Member
**




Posts: 29
Re:  The filter vs the bag type of vacuum cle
Reply #11 - 03/27/07 at 3:35pm
 
Hi,
 
Do you think your staff is more mindful of emptying the dust container because they can see it?
 
What I have seen so far are bagless machines that suffer from the owners' belief that constant sucton claims also mean little or no maintenance.
 
Venson
Back to top
 
 
Email   IP Logged
VacOMatic
Senior Member
****


I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 475
Re:  The filter vs the bag type of vacuum cle
Reply #12 - 03/27/07 at 5:00pm
 
It would be helpful if bagless vacs offered indicators or some kind of warning that told users the second stage filters are clogging.  It can't be __that__ expensive to add a simple suction indicator!
 
Some cheapie bagless vacs I have seen "hide" the second stage filter (bissell, some hoovers, etc.) so the user has no way of knowing the vac's clogging up until the vac simply won't pick stuff up.  Not good design.
 
Where the well designed bagless excells is in handling fine powders (capture, etc.) that quickly overwhelm a bagged vac __unless__ that bagged vac has a large, filtrette bag.
Ever notice in Consumers Union testing that usually the uprights and cannisters with the largest, filtrette style bags do best in their tool/airflow tests?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Carmine_Difazio
Ultimate Member
*****


I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 5559
Re:  The filter vs the bag type of vacuum cle
Reply #13 - 03/27/07 at 6:18pm
 
Quote from VacOMatic on 03/27/07 at 5:00pm:
It would be helpful if bagless vacs offered indicators or some kind of warning that told users the second stage filters are clogging.  It can't be __that__ expensive to add a simple suction indicator!


 
If I'm not mistaken, both Euro-Pro Infinity bagless uprights (the teal and red models) have this feature (a light) to tell the user that the filter needs cleaning.  MSRP are about $200 and $250 respectively but both are discounted from these prices at all the big box retailers.
 
I have not used these long enough to see if the feature actually works well.  And the red model is on my list of wants to inspect and use.
 
Carmine D.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Carmine_Difazio
Ultimate Member
*****


I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 5559
Re:  The filter vs the bag type of vacuum cle
Reply #14 - 03/28/07 at 8:03am
 
Quote from guess_who on 03/27/07 at 3:35pm:
Hi,


What I have seen so far are bagless machines that suffer from the owners' belief that constant sucton claims also mean little or no maintenance.

Venson

 
Hello Venson:
 
The maker of a certain bagless vacuum and even some industry professionals including sales people promulgated this myth to an unsuspecting US vacuum buying public.  How?  By stating and prominantly displaying "0" costs after the purchase (on product literature and cartons).  Other bagless makers jumped on the bandwagon (for the profit of course).  Unfortunately, the US vacuum buying public bought into the lie and they got burned.  
 
I believe that some (public and professional alike) have even imputed a "moral high ground" to the bagless maker (in part because of this).  And to a large extent by saying "bags" are old-fashioned technology.  And they argue that it is "mean-spirited" and "evil" to question the truth of the bagless maker's claims let alone say the product's peformance is just mediocre.  But I digress.
 
My sense is that Consumer Reports will discuss this misinformation and even deception directed toward bagless buyers and users (performance wise not philosophical).  And CR will set the record straight.  At least I'm optimistic that CR will detail the pitfalls of bagless vacuums vice bagged when it discusses vacuum maintenance and vacuum reliability.  Time will tell.  We'll have to wait and see.
 
Which? has done it overseas with reports of vacuums in comparing reliability.  But it has had more time with the bagless phenomenon.  Inevitably Which? rates the bagged vacuums like Miele and SEBO as the best for reliability results year after year.  And we know the worse!  CR has come close with its inherent distaste (some may say slant) for the health unworthiness of bagged vacuums (i.e HOOVER FUSION and Eureka Optima and the general health warning about the uncleanliness and health hazards of dumping bagless).  But has not issued its final judgment on the pitfalls of bagless vacuums.
 
Some vacuum manufacturers are actually ahead of the industry curve for bagless maintenance by offering self-cleaning HEPA filters and light indicators to remind users of the need for filter cleaning.  CR should give praise to them too.  If not for the results, at least for the efforts.
 
Carmine D.  
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
guess_who
Junior Member
**




Posts: 29
Re:  The filter vs the bag type of vacuum cle
Reply #15 - 03/28/07 at 1:58pm
 
Hi Carmine,
 
Thanks.  As for health hazards, there are probably a million household tasks that bear possible health hazards.  Cleaning toilets, washing out garbage cans and litter boxes and even the manner by which we do the dishes, just as examples, expose us to all kinds of unfriendly microbes yet most of us survive.  In simpler times all that was required was plain soap, a bucket, a rag and a broom and life moved along just fine.
 
However, we've been "shocked awake" as it were by advertisers' hyperbole over the last several and are constatnly running straight out to stock our homes with products to make us safe.  The laugh here is that we hear even less about the safety margin in the use of those products.  So while I'm waging the war on germs with my rubber gloves, chlorine bleach or other chemicals, I'm still exposing myself to potential harm.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't clean but that we might be better served by reality checks now and then.
 
I'm all for lessening or removing health risks but realize that it is so far impossible to avoid a good many.  I think the more advertisements weave tales of potential woe the more we need to refresh ourselves regarding practical science before buying.
 
I like my bagless Iridium (which I think has been dropped by Sears) but have bagged machines I think as much of.  Though it is to my mind Best in Show in comparison to any other bagless non-Dyson originated canisters, it still requires my occsasionally having to remove the shroud to get out collected debris when emptying its dust container -- no simple dump and put it back.  The washing of the dust container may or may not be necessary but I like seeing it relatively clean.  All this does lead to some exposure to dust but the doing of it isn't significantly messier than thoroughly cleaning out a re-usable bag.  On the other hand, just removing and replacing a disposable bag or a pre- or after-filter now and then is awful nice though it comes with a cost.
 
Vacuum emissions and messy maintenance are surely worthy of our concern but sadly are not the greatest of them.  
 
Venson
Back to top
 
 
Email   IP Logged
Carmine_Difazio
Ultimate Member
*****


I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 5559
Re:  The filter vs the bag type of vacuum cle
Reply #16 - 03/28/07 at 5:13pm
 
Hello Venson:
 
On the matter of the microbial threat, I respectively disagree with most who are not concerned.  But will limit my post to some salient points.  Reading of Henry Mazur, President of the Infectious Disease Society of America (www.idsociety.org) has heightened my awareness of the issues and concerns.   Consider:  Antibiotic-resistant bacterial infections kill tens of thousands of Americans every year and can strike anyone, young, old, healthy and chronically ill.  Annually nearly 2 million US patients acquire infections in the hospital and nearly one in 10 of these patients die; more than 70% of those infections are resistant to at least one of the drugs used to treat them.  In the last decade, antibiotic-resistant bacteria have become a serious problem outside the hospital, incluidng among our soldiers returning from Iraq, and the number of infections caused by these bugs has skyrocketed among healthy people. The media regularly reporting horrifying stories of otherwise healthy children and adults felled by methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) and of US soldiers infected with Acinetobacter baumanni.
 
If you have some time and want to read more about the threat, I strongly suggest you and others do.  It's an eye opening experience.  
 
Having worked in a dust and dirt environment for most of my adult life (due to vacuums, paint thinner, and lacquer paint, with buffing compounds and the like) and never using masks and gloves, I can only say I surely had the angels and saints looking over me.  I nearly died from pneumonia and still susceptible (due to a lung bacteria as a result of dirt).  My 9 year old lab developed diabetes at 4 YO due to an airborne virus and I administer insulin to her twice daily.  She is lucky to be alive.  Some of the other pets that acquired the disease when she did, died as a result.  And I don't have to mention the deaths of 9-11 workers who succumbed subsequently from breathing related ailments caused by their exposure.
 
Carmine D.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
guess_who
Junior Member
**




Posts: 29
Re:  The filter vs the bag type of vacuum cle
Reply #17 - 03/28/07 at 6:41pm
 
Hi Carmine D.,
 
I'm awfully sorry to hear of your unfortunate experiences.  As I ended last time round, I maintain there are greater concerns for us than vacuum emissions.  The things you've spoken of just proved it.
 
In light of the things you've stated, I feel there is little to protect us beyond that which we may try to do to bolster our immune systems and/or maintain our bodies and health as best we can.  However, there are no miracle detergents, disinfectants to shield us from the kind of things you're talking about.  It is hard to know or understand why one individual exposed to the myriad bacterial and chemical encounters we experience daily comews to suffer and another under exactly the same exposure does not.
 
This is an issue quite close to my heart because someone very important to me died in a hospital after battling several infections having nothing to do with the reason he'd been brought in.  They were encountered and cropped up there during an eight month stay. If there'd been a vacuum cleaner that could have helped improve his condition, I'd have been there with two.  If there'd been a bathroom cleaner, an air spray, detergent, a gadget or anything that could have helped him stay alive in what I'd obviously mistook as the best and cleanest environment he could be in -- one of the best hospitals in New York City -- I and other friends would have had the stuff hauled there by the truckload.  Yet for all that hospital's access to drugs, germicides and devices, none saved him.  He is lost to us and sorely missed.
 
In light of that, when I get hit with adverts telling me that if I don't rush out to get Brand-X cleaner my bathroom will qualify as a swamp or that if my vacuum doesn't filter down to x-microns I'll be asphyxiated, I smirk and turn the other way.  Then I think of good old Aunt Lucy, 95 and still with us, who spent many a cleaning day sweeping with a broom and doing the john with nothing but a bucket of water a little ammonia.
 
Regarding the rise of new maladies, I think one, there are scenarios involved that are probably much the same as those applying to native Americans here -- strangers show up not only carrying wampum but  lots of bacteria and viruses they'd long developed a better tolerance for.  However their hosts had never been exposed to the like and that often unfortuantely proved deadly.  We are now living in a world in which you can move long distances from one part of it and back again in a matter of hours carrying and bringing who knows what.  
 
Two, there's the old example that if you have a room full of flies and you get out the sprayer to blast them away, not all will die. Some will live, breed and bring forth a more resistant strain.  There was a strain of veneral disease a good many years back that developed overseas by way of persons selling their services while under treatment for the same before treatment reached full course.  What did we end up with? Bacteria that penicillin couldn't kill.  And we' lived a long time thinking there was almost nothing penicillin couldn't do.
 
There are many, many awful things happening every day and everywhere that we can neither stop nor decrease.  For purveyors of goods to  imply that a machine, chemical or whatever can be the cure for our ills is oft times equally as awful.  We can only do what we reasonably can to survive in this world.  Beyond that, all that's left us is prayer.
 
Venson
 
 
Back to top
 
 
Email   IP Logged
Carmine_Difazio
Ultimate Member
*****


I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 5559
Re:  The filter vs the bag type of vacuum cle
Reply #18 - 03/28/07 at 7:12pm
 
Quote from guess_who on 03/28/07 at 6:41pm:
Hi Carmine D.,

This is an issue quite close to my heart because someone very important to me died in a hospital after battling several infections having nothing to do with the reason he'd been brought in.  Venson


 
My heartfelt sympathy for your loss.
 
Carmine D.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Carmine_Difazio
Ultimate Member
*****


I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 5559
Re:  The filter vs the bag type of vacuum cle
Reply #19 - 03/28/07 at 7:48pm
 
Quote from guess_who on 03/28/07 at 1:58pm:


I like my bagless Iridium (which I think has been dropped by Sears)

Venson

 
Venson:
 
Some SEARS stores, like the one in N. Las Vegas, carry a bagless Kenmore Progressive Cyclonic Bagless Canister Vacuum Models 26822/23.  It is no longer called the Iridium.  And the MSRP is $399.
 
Carmine D.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print
Home - Buying Guide - Forum - Reviews - About Us
Copyright 1998-2007, Whats The Best, Inc. All rights reserved.